Pope Francis: No Catholic need to breed like 'rabbits'

[muriel_volestrangler]

Good Roman Catholics do not need to breed like "rabbits", the Pope has said, but should practice "responsible" parenting instead.
...
Standing firm against artificial birth control, he said new life was "part of the sacrament of marriage".

But he said population experts advised three children per family.
...
He cited the case of one woman he had met who had had seven children by Caesarean section and was expecting her eighth - a pregnancy he said was irresponsible.

"She said, 'I trust in God.' But God gave us the means to be responsible," the Pope said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30890989

I have absolutely no idea what message he's trying to get out here. Is it just 'stop having sex after a bit'?

[Mass]

1. So the doctrine stays the same. Sex is only to have children, so relie on unreliable methods.\nt

[rug]

11. That has never been the doctrine.

[cbayer]

12. I didn't think so either.

I thought it had the dual purpose of uniting a couple and procreating. What is the doctrine?

[rug]

14. Here's a rather prosaically titled statement from the American Catholic Bishops

It's titled the Unitive and Procreative Nature of Intercourse.

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/natural-family-planning/catholic-teaching/upload/Unitive-and-Proc-Nature-of-Interc.pdf

I swear, if I ever leave the Catholic Church it will be because of their prose.

[cbayer]

2. Say what?

The Pope said he knew many ways allowed by the Catholic Church that could ensure families only had as many children as they wished.

Ensure? Like pulling out and the rhythm method? Hardly going to ensure anything. There is only one way to ensure this and follow the rules - no vaginal sex ever.

Certainly he is aware that most catholics use birth control, but he just can't acknowledge it out loud, would be my guess.

[edhopper]

3. " There is only one way to ensure this and follow the rules - no vaginal sex ever. "

I believe that is their most desired outcome.

[cbayer]

4. I don't know. It would really serve them well to back down from their

stance on this. I understand that abortificants are never going to be ok, but they really should ease up on everything else.

Why would they not want people to have sex? This never made sense to me.

[edhopper]

15. That

is a long a conversation. What do they have against sex?

Probably a whole thread worthy.

[PotatoChip]

5. Definitely no real assurances with the rhythm method.

But it apparently works better than I had assumed. At least for women with reliably regular cycles.

Prior to googling, I guessed a 20% to 25% effectiveness rate, at best. However, here is what WebMD says:

What Is the Rhythm Method?
A woman practices the rhythm method of birth control by learning to recognize the days she is fertile and not having sex before and during those days. The rhythm method does not work for all couples. Women who have regular menstrual cycles and who are very careful about when they have sex usually find it to be effective. Women who have irregular cycles and who are not so careful often end up becoming pregnant.

How Does the Rhythm Method Work?
Aspects of the rhythm method include keeping track of changes in body temperature and vaginal discharge (fluid from the vagina) to pinpoint which days you are fertile. Ask your doctor how best to use the rhythm method.

How Effective Is the Rhythm Method?
The rhythm method is typically 75% to 87% effective.
http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/rhythm-method

Regardless, I would not put my trust in that method if I was Catholic, and still in my childbearing years.

I think you are right about the Pope not wanting to acknowledge birth control methods out loud. Thus, the vagueness of his words.

[cbayer]

6. Those numbers aren't bad, but they sure aren't good.

Being "very careful about when they have sex" is so appealing, isn't it?

Perhaps he is cracking the door open a little for a new position regarding birth control. That may be too much to ask for, but when the vast majority of people aren't following your rule, you might want to consider changing it.

Kind of like the legalization of MJ.

[PotatoChip]

7. Lol! I know, right?!

I too hope he is opening the door for a new position on this. Or at the very least, backing off into a kind of unwritten, unspoken acceptance.

Women have enough to be worried about these days to be following such archaic rules.

[cbayer]

8. If one wanted to see the glass half full, one could interpret this as

saying that it's ok to not get pregnant every time you have sex. That is not such a bad thing to say, I guess.

With all the sexual misbehavior that has gone on in the catholic church, it would seem to be the height of hypocrisy to say that consenting adults shouldn't have sex for fun.

We shall see what comes of this.

[PotatoChip]

9. I think that may be exactly what he is trying to say.

He's being uncharacteristically ineloquent about it, though. Maybe the subject matter just has him all flustered.

[cbayer]

10. Excellent point. I suspect sex isn't the topic he is most comfortable with.

Really nice talking to you PotatoChip.

There's a sunset calling my name. I hope to see you again.

[PotatoChip]

13. Back atcha cbayer!

I bet it is gorgeous at sea right now. Enjoy that sunset!

[pokerfan]

20. A quote from 1956....

[LiberalAndProud]

16. Eve tempted Adam.

I don't think we can separate the creation myth from the doctrine. Sex is for procreation.period.

I have long wondered why religions have tried to harness our most instinctive biological urge to name it as sin, except to name all of us sinners. It's a losing proposition for almost all of us, isn't it?

[cbayer]

17. Except that is not the doctrine, as the document that rug linked to above states.

It is also about unification of a couple, a role separate from procreation.

I never thought the catholic church made sex a sin as much as it just set up an awful lot of rules that had to be followed for it to be ok.

[LiberalAndProud]

18. How does contraception intefere with the unification of a couple?

When the church revises its stance on use of contraceptives, I'll have some use for words that, right now, contradict the church's practice. Most US Catholics may use contraceptives. Most Catholics worldwide do not.

[cbayer]

19. Oh, the whole issue of contraception is completely different.

That has to do with "sanctity of life" and not sexual activity, I think. Of course, they are intertwined, but still separate in some ways.

I do not believe your last sentence is accurate. Though it may be hard to get accurate numbers on actual usage, 78% of catholics believe in contraception in a study done in 12 countries. It tops 90% in most Latin American and European countries, but is at 40% in AFrica.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/09/catholics-church-contraception-abortion-survey