Religion
Related: About this forumBad news:Richard Dawkins, shunned in Berkeley, finds new venue nearby
From the article:
To read more bad news:
http://religionnews.com/2017/07/27/richard-dawkins-shunned-by-berkeley-finds-new-venue-nearby/
Yes, Dawkins is ignorant, and loudly opinionated, and fond of his own celebrity, but to cancel the event is censorship. Freedom of speech is also the freedom to speak disagreeably.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Richard Dawkins, allegedly the worst atheist in the world, writes books and says mean things about religion. He's never hurt anyone, never taken away anyone's rights, never done a single freaking thing anywhere near what the world's worst theists have done, yet many portray him as "the other side of the coin" for religious extremists.
Again, LMAO.
Good news: Richard Dawkins is still making bigoted theists tremble and condemn him.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)A miracle.
he is responsible for me being an atheist. Some might think that is a bad thing.
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)1)The shadowed portion of the post is an excerpt.
2) It is followed by a link to the original article.
3) The part after the link is my own editorializing.
So................
Hope this helps you.
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)without any evidence. I guess these pearls are just a gift to us mortals.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)So why the confusion? Would you deny me the right to my opinion?
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)We both expressed an opinion. My original opinion was expressed as an editorial comment at the end of my post.
Perhaps I should title all of my comments as "in my opinion", but that could get awkward.
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)That is quite a leap to make. An opinion without evidence is basically just a preference. You don't like Dawkins? He gets on your nerves? Fair enough. But without an argument you aren't going to convince anyone.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)So I explained the why.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,316 posts)When someone asks "why do you say ...", they're asking why you hold that opinion. As far as we can tell, you have no reason or evidence to hold it. All you've shown yourself capable of telling us is that it is your opinion.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And belief can also be based on many things.
So yes, my opinion of Dawkins is based on his personality and his unprovable beliefs.
SamKnause
(13,106 posts)I love watching his debates, documentaries, and lectures on YouTube.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And I have no argument with you expressing that opinion.
SamKnause
(13,106 posts)Argue with yourself.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)SamKnause
(13,106 posts)You must have confused my post with another one.
I simply made a statement that I like Dawkins.
I like watching his debates, documentaries, and lectures on YouTube.
There was no question involved.
I will chalk it up to an innocent mistake on your part.
Have a great Friday night and a great weekend.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)jiminvegas
(104 posts)debates, documentaries, and lectures on YouTube.
And I love to read his books.
Those are not personal opinions, those are facts.
And I believe Richard Dawkins is extremely intelligent and knowledgeable. Those are personal opinions based upon lots of evidence.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)You might love to read his books, etc. That is a personal preference of yours. So in a sense it is a fact, but it does not make any or all of what Dawkins says a fact.
I believe that he is intelligent and in his particular field of evolutionary biology he is undoubtedly qualified, but when he opines about faith and religion he is no more credible than you or me.
Jim__
(14,076 posts)KPFA is not under any obligation to provide a platform for Dawkins.
KPFA's statement on the matter:
We serve a broad and diverse community, including many Muslims living under threat of persecution and violence in the current political context. Islamophobic rhetoric stokes that threat. While Mr. Dawkins has every right to express his views, KPFA has every right not to sponsor and profit from an event spreading them. That is what weve done.
KPFAs events organizers notified Mr. Dawkins publicist at Random House when we first started considering cancellation of his event, and again once we made the final decision to do so, which was before notice was sent out to ticket holders.
We have since extended an offer to Mr. Dawkins to discuss this matter on KPFAs airwaves, a forum where his assertions can be engaged and challenged, but KPFA will have no financial stake in promoting them. He has not yet responded.
There is an audio (about 4 and a half minutes) news story at the link.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)My personal opinion of Dawkin's behavior aside, I am a firm believer in free speech, but as you note, KPFA is under no obligation to provide a platform.
Doodley
(9,091 posts)tolerate criticism of Islam (not Muslims, but Islam). That is censorship.
Jim__
(14,076 posts)Dawkins is not being banned from KPFA - from post #16:
And, if he chooses to discuss the matter on KPFAs airwaves, he will be free to criticize Islam.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)As long as they are using my public airwaves I feel they have an obligation to air all views. No matter how disagreeable they find them. The Supreme Court has weighed in that free speech ends at the incitement of violence. I am quite certain Dawkins does not incite violence.
And yes, I would say the same thing about Ann Coulter or Milo what's-his-name and Alex Jones. I vehemently disagree with all of those people but I will not silence them. I will simply change the channel as is my right.
It is the height of political correctness to cancel a speaker because one doesn't like their tweets and book.
Jim__
(14,076 posts)Simple fact: KPFA does not have any obligation to air Dawkins views.
Second simple fact: they are not refusing to air Dawkins views, they are just choosing the setting in which to air them.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)That said, I also don't think it's censorship. There is no government actor involved here.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)It is censorship, but not government sanctioned censorship.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)And while it is censorship, it is allowed since it is a private org.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)The definition of "ignorant" according to Webster's is:
Definition of ignorant
1 a : destitute of knowledge or education an ignorant society; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified parents ignorant of modern mathematics
b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence ignorant errors
2: unaware, uninformed
see: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorant
To call such a learned person ignorant certainly exposes a peevish bias against them. Apparently, simply because you disagree with the man you've resorted to ad hominem attacks.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)but when he expounds on an unrelated field his opinion is uninformed. Thus my choice of the word.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Disliking Dawkins' opinions regarding religion isn't proof of ignorance, he seems to be much more knowledgeable about the subject than many of his critics. Those same critics have tried to discredit him for years by claiming that he shouldn't discuss religion because he's not an 'expert' on theology.
There's actually a term that was coined in response to these attacks:
His answer to the fallacy is to say that telling a non-believer that he should study theology before he can properly discuss whether a god exists is like telling the child in the fable to study haute couture before he can properly discuss whether the Emperor is naked.
Essentially, it's a particularly ham-handed argument from authority where the position's proponent attempts to bury the opponent under a pile of detail which is largely irrelevant to the opponent's argument.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Courtier's_Reply
Here's the original essay:
I call it the Courtiers Reply. It refers to the aftermath of a fable.
I have considered the impudent accusations of Mr Dawkins with exasperation at his lack of serious scholarship. He has apparently not read the detailed discourses of Count Roderigo of Seville on the exquisite and exotic leathers of the Emperors boots, nor does he give a moments consideration to Bellinis masterwork, On the Luminescence of the Emperors Feathered Hat. We have entire schools dedicated to writing learned treatises on the beauty of the Emperors raiment, and every major newspaper runs a section dedicated to imperial fashion; Dawkins cavalierly dismisses them all. He even laughs at the highly popular and most persuasive arguments of his fellow countryman, Lord D. T. Mawkscribbler, who famously pointed out that the Emperor would not wear common cotton, nor uncomfortable polyester, but must, I say must, wear undergarments of the finest silk.
Dawkins arrogantly ignores all these deep philosophical ponderings to crudely accuse the Emperor of nudity.
Personally, I suspect that perhaps the Emperor might not be fully clothed how else to explain the apparent sloth of the staff at the palace laundry but, well, everyone else does seem to go on about his clothes, and this Dawkins fellow is such a rude upstart who lacks the wit of my elegant circumlocutions, that, while unable to deal with the substance of his accusations, I should at least chide him for his very bad form.
Until Dawkins has trained in the shops of Paris and Milan, until he has learned to tell the difference between a ruffled flounce and a puffy pantaloon, we should all pretend he has not spoken out against the Emperors taste. His training in biology may give him the ability to recognize dangling genitalia when he sees it, but it has not taught him the proper appreciation of Imaginary Fabrics.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/12/24/the-courtiers-reply/
I see no evidence that Dawkins is "ignorant" about religion, in fact he seems to have studied it at length. I think his criticism irritates religious apologists so they resort to using ad hominems because they can't refute what he says. Fortunately their attempts to discredit him have failed.
And "bad news"? What's that about?
What an odd way to describe a science lecture, in my opinion this can only considered 'bad news' if one is anti-science.