Is atheism the reason for Ta-Nehisi Coates' pessimism on race relations?

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

In fact, Coates’s entire worldview rests on a theology of global chaos. We were Eight Years in Power describes this theory of chaos as black atheism. Remarkably little attention has been given to the pivotal role this idea plays in his work.
Since God does not exist, Coates argues, there can be no collective hope or national redemption. We live, Coates tells us, in an amoral universe in which the powerful have little desire to help the powerless. This Coates describes as his general theory of life, one in which “no one was coming to save me”.

To read more of this interesting article:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/22/atheism-ta-nehisi-coates-pessimism-race-relations?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU%20Today%20USA%20-%20Collections%202017&utm_term=249060&subid=18564443&CMP=GT_US_collection

[Voltaire2]

1. Do you think some one is coming to save us?

[guillaumeb]

2. Did you read the article?

If so, what did you think?

[Voltaire2]

3. you first.

Do you think some one is coming to save us?

[guillaumeb]

4. Start another post with that question.

Perhaps a poll of some type.

[Lordquinton]

13. Maybe answer the question you are asked.

It's relevant to the topic that you posted.

[MineralMan]

32. Why? The question is raised in the second paragraph

of your posted excerpt. Please consider trying to answer it. It's entirely relevant to your post.

[guillaumeb]

33. It would be relevant if this were a post on ones individual beliefs.

But the article is specifically about Coates, and it speculates on how, if at all, his atheism is the reason for his personal belief.


So I disagree. My personal theism has nothing to do with the post.

[MineralMan]

34. You're Punting.

Now, I have the ball. How's your team's defense?

Subtle digs at atheism have always been part of this group. It used to be worse here, but it continues, even so.

Failure to convert on the third down. Punt.

[Girard442]

5. Think of it as an engineering problem.

Let's say you want to build the first cell phone. You have to have a deep understanding of the physics involved, the existing technologies you can exploit and the new ones you have to invent. Then you have to work your ass off. If you f*** up even one part of the process, you have a nonworking phone, or an unreliable one, or one that's too expensive to use. Oh, and you have to build the infrastructure that supports cell phones and you have to get funding for all this. There won't be any miracles along the way. The Vulcans will not land outside your lab and Spock will not walk in with just the widget you need. It's a ballbuster of a task requiring the contribution of thousands of people -- but it did get done.

Building a just and peaceful society is like that -- a ballbuster of a problem, but we shouldn't despair just because there's no one who's going to serve it up to us on a platter.

[guillaumeb]

6. True. Human social engineering.

And given the corporate media's constant focus on violence and sensation, is it surprising that some feel that violence is increasing?

[Jim__]

7. "... appeals to moral conscience or universal laws about racial injustice are bound to have ..."

"... little effect"

What specifically makes black atheism black, according to Coates, is the recognition that white people, like all peoples, are inclined towards self-interest and therefore appeals to moral conscience or universal laws about racial injustice are bound to have little effect.

An implicit assumption in that paragraph is that racial justice is not in most people's self-interest. I would argue that racial equality is in the best interest of most people in the United States. Some demogogues may benefit from racial unrest, but people should be able to see through that.

If I am correct, then Coates' beliefs on the benefits of racial justice may be more to blame for his pessimism than his atheism.

[guillaumeb]

8. I agree with your premise,

and the criticism of Coates' assessment.

[marylandblue]

9. I think the article has it backwards

He is an atheist because the universe has no moral arc, it's not that being an atheist causes him to believe there is no moral arc. He uses black history in America as a personal example of this problem. Even when progress is made, in his view, especially when progress is made, blacks are pulled back into the shadows. And most white Americans don't even know it happened, let alone how it affects them. So it continues.

[Voltaire2]

10. well stated.

[trotsky]

11. Well I'm glad that we can get all upset about one man's atheism...

rather than the thing he's upset about.

FFS.

[guillaumeb]

15. Did you read the article?

[trotsky]

17. Yep. n/t

[guillaumeb]

18. Reply #16

[trotsky]

19. Reply #17. n/t

[Act_of_Reparation]

12. Insulting codswallop.

Typical theist bigotry veiled behind a VERY SERIOUS DISCUSSION.

Fuck this noise.

[guillaumeb]

16. Did you read the article?

Did you read this part, near the end:

Yet despite all the horrors he locates in history, atheism entails no necessary ethics or politics. In fact, as Coates is more than aware, atheism and the absence of a moral arc is, for many, what makes collective hope and national redemption possible. Religion is often by its very nature exclusionary. Atheism can, for some, allow for a real coming together.

[Act_of_Reparation]

20. Oh, wow.

What a nice thing to say. It almost makes one forget the article is premised entirely on the fucking sideways notion that atheism gives people teh sad.

Almost.

[marylandblue]

21. The author is telling Coates what kind of atheist he should be

Isn't that like an atheist telling you what kind of Christian you should be?

[guillaumeb]

22. That was your personal impression?

I understand.

[marylandblue]

23. Do you disagree with me?

[guillaumeb]

24. I read it as an opinion piece regarding what the author

feels is Coates' world view.

[marylandblue]

25. Then why does he point out that other atheists disagree with Coates?

[guillaumeb]

27. Why not?

Unless your position is that all non-theists hold identical viewpoints, and I do not believe that you would say such a thing, what is wrong with pointing out the obvious?

[marylandblue]

31. Because most authors do not write to point out the obvious.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

14. No. The shitty state of race relations is the reason for his pessimism.

Someone can actually be an atheist and have hope.

He's just actually realizing that the rich are going to fuck the poor and that there is no god to make that right.

[Htom Sirveaux]

26. According to the article, the answer is "no"

since said article argues that atheism is part of redemption for others, rather than a limit on redemption that it appears to be for Coates.

[guillaumeb]

28. Agreed. eom

[IUPACify]

29. Not a fan.

Honestly, I really resent these posts. I'm agnostic on my best days and atheistic when my civility is being attacked by someone of faith. Disregarding someone's ethics based on their non-regiosity is as despicable as racism. And, yes, guillaumeb's posts on these matters feel like a personal assault to us agnostics/atheists.

[guillaumeb]

30. Welcome to the discussion.

As to civility, in recent days I have read 2 separate comments describing theism as a disease.

This particular piece is the author's opinion of Coates' philosophy, not a criticism of atheism.

If you are not aware, there is a group specifically dedicated to non-theists. But in this forum, all opinions are tolerated.

Also feel free to point out where in my posts you feel that I attack non-theists. I often point out the inconsistencies in what is occasionally posted by some non-theists in the religion group, but that is not an attack on atheism.