Should the Non-Religious Stand Silent When Religious People

[MineralMan]

promote bigotry or do illegal things? Should we hold our tongues? Should we just "roll our eyes" and walk away?

I say no to that suggestion. I will not be silent. I will not look away. I will call it out.

Religion does not excuse bigoted or biased behavior. It does not excuse criminal activities such as the sexual abuse of children. Remaining silent is not an option. Being polite is not an option.

We've had far too much of that. If their co-religionists will not speak out loudly, then the non-religious will have to do it for them.

I pledge to continue doing so.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. And, you simply are NOT a Christian if you support rump.

[MineralMan]

2. I do not decide who is and who is not a Christian.

That's not my job in any way. I'm not a Christian, so I leave such judgments to those who claim to be Christians.

I am just a person in this society. I criticize behavior, not labels. If someone claims to be a Christian, then I will accept their definition of themselves. If that person is a bigot or behaves in a socially unacceptable way, I will call that person out for that behavior. I don't care about religious labels. They are meaningless to me. I care about actions.

[Eliot Rosewater]

4. I have to be careful how I say this, so best way is to censor myself before

someone does it for me.

[MineralMan]

5. Oh, OK. Then you said nothing?

I'm good with that.

[Eliot Rosewater]

6. It is really all i can say often. I do have my fans

[Corvo Bianco]

7. Have you no fear of God?!!! Alex Jones and Roy Moore are merely the almighty's spokespeople!

j.k., damn them all to hell.

[MineralMan]

9. I cannot fear what does not exist.

I fear some people, certainly, but not fictitious supernatural entities.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. I think you are mischaracterizing the remark I made in another thread.

I agree that public statements of religious (or any other) bigotry should be called out and challenged. The point I was trying to make is that in the course of a one-on-one conversation there isn't much point in trying to change the mind or beliefs of someone who's clearly dug in. There are many situations where walking away from a religious nut is the only sensible thing to do. This is especially the case where the person is a co-worker, an in-law, or someone else you have to deal with on a regular basis.

[MineralMan]

10. In one-on-one situations with people I must deal with,

I will tell them that I will not tolerate such behavior in my presence. I have done that within my in-law family. I would do it as many times as necessary, but I've never had to do it twice with the same person. Once was enough. I don't care whether I change a person's mind in such situations. I do care about changing their behavior. That, I will always do.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. If you're talking about behavior, that's another matter.

I have bitten the head off of a relative for using the n-word, for example. What I'm talking about is some silly blather about religion itself - that Jesus wants you to do such-and-such and you'll go to hell if you don't do it. Or that God wanted Trump to be president. That sort of religious nonsense doesn't deserve the dignity of a response.

[MineralMan]

14. I don't care what people believe. Truly, I don't.

It's behavior that matters to me, and that only. When someone starts blathering on about their religious beliefs, I simply say, "Could we please change the subject? Religion doesn't interest me at all." Then, I'll bring up another topic. If that doesn't work, I'll excuse myself and find someone else to talk to.

Really, religion and politics are poor topics for polite discussion. They're better not brought up in any gatherings, unless those gatherings have on of those two topics on the agenda.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. Where I used to work, there was a guy who left religious tracts

on other employees' desks, but fortunately management shut him down pretty fast. My response to religious discussions (other than merely casual remarks, like "the Easter lilies at my church made me sneeze uncontrollably all day" ) in inappropriate situations like work has always been to roll my eyes and walk away, a practice which, IIRC, you just criticized!

[MineralMan]

17. Again, that's why I started a new thread.

This one is about bad behavior by religious people, not discussions of their religious beliefs.

[MineralMan]

15. That is why I started my own thread - to discuss behavior.

I did not want to hijack the other thread.

[guillaumeb]

19. Well said.

And there is a difference between personal interaction and public statements and actions.

[bitterross]

11. I believe the problem is where to draw the line on behaviors

There is a huge issue with where to draw the line on the behaviors by religious groups.

We can all agree that not taking your kid to a doctor because you are praying instead and then having the kid die from lack of treatment is a crime. Or can we? We don't force blood transfusions on people for religious reasons or vaccinations in some places.

We can all agree that genital mutilation of little girls in order to keep them chaste is a problem. Or can we? We don't think it's an issue to do the same thing to little boys. And yes, stopping boys from masturbating was a far larger reason why circumcision is common than any real medical necessity. We managed to survive as a species without it before it was a covenant between man and a god.

We can all agree that marrying off little girls to much older men is a problem. Or can we? Many states have recently spurned the restrictions on this practice. Keeping in place laws that allow little girls to be married off with their parent's permission.

Religion doesn't excuse bigoted or biased behavior, but it frequently explains and underlies it. Religions have, historically, been very tribal affairs. So it is only natural that they promote and "us vs. them" mentality.

As long we allow "some" things in the name of religion it will be very difficult to prohibit or even work on stopping things in the name of religion.

[MineralMan]

12. One case at a time. One behavior at a time.

One person at a time.

[sarisataka]

18. No, and religious people

Should not stand silent either.

That was actually the point of the religious Ed class I taught to a group of teen ages last evening.

The role of Christians in a modern society is not to promote laws creating a theocracy but instead a free and open society where all may grow according to God's plan. Some may choose to believe in God in a different name or not believe at all- and those are people are to be accepted and loved not one iota less than the most devoted believer.