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Fri May 18, 2018, 03:57 PM

What if gods never existed?

What would the world be like if there were no gods?

60 replies, 2851 views

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Reply What if gods never existed? (Original post)
Voltaire2 May 2018 OP
SoFlaDem May 2018 #1
MineralMan May 2018 #2
Mariana May 2018 #9
MineralMan May 2018 #10
SoFlaDem May 2018 #14
Voltaire2 May 2018 #3
SoFlaDem May 2018 #15
Mariana May 2018 #17
Voltaire2 May 2018 #19
Snotcicles May 2018 #52
Duppers May 2018 #13
LSFL May 2018 #4
Voltaire2 May 2018 #7
Liberalhammer May 2018 #5
Mariana May 2018 #11
Major Nikon May 2018 #6
Voltaire2 May 2018 #20
BigmanPigman May 2018 #8
Mariana May 2018 #12
Voltaire2 May 2018 #21
mitch96 May 2018 #16
Voltaire2 May 2018 #18
mitch96 May 2018 #22
Voltaire2 May 2018 #23
guillaumeb May 2018 #24
guillaumeb May 2018 #25
Voltaire2 May 2018 #26
guillaumeb May 2018 #28
Voltaire2 May 2018 #45
guillaumeb May 2018 #59
Voltaire2 May 2018 #60
Major Nikon May 2018 #58
RockRaven May 2018 #27
guillaumeb May 2018 #29
RockRaven May 2018 #33
guillaumeb May 2018 #34
elleng May 2018 #36
Sneederbunk May 2018 #30
doc03 May 2018 #31
progressoid May 2018 #32
elleng May 2018 #35
thucythucy May 2018 #37
edhopper May 2018 #40
thucythucy May 2018 #42
edhopper May 2018 #51
thucythucy May 2018 #53
Mariana May 2018 #56
Voltaire2 May 2018 #43
thucythucy May 2018 #49
Cartoonist May 2018 #48
gibraltar72 May 2018 #38
Voltaire2 May 2018 #46
edhopper May 2018 #39
thinkingagain May 2018 #41
Voltaire2 May 2018 #44
thinkingagain May 2018 #47
Voltaire2 May 2018 #50
Snackshack May 2018 #54
Snotcicles May 2018 #55
NeoGreen May 2018 #57

Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:06 PM

1. Maybe...

 

We would have lost our minds when we became sentient only to realize our end game was always death? Maybe we wouldn't have pushed on when we realized that we had almost no control over the world and it's conditions. Maybe we would have stole all the other people in our clan when there wasn't enough food to go around and we wouldn't have cooperated in times of famine? Unlike the other non-self aware animals, we can see how bleak and sad the human condition can be.

By this, I believe the need for ritual, faith and/or religion seems to be ingrained in the human spirit and must have played some role in our evolutionary survival or it wouldn't have been so prevalent.

And I am not arguing in favor or against modern religion, I am just thinking how evolution doesn't always pick intellect as the best survival strategy.

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Response to SoFlaDem (Reply #1)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:10 PM

2. Why, then, do atheists not feel that way?

Really.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #2)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:36 PM

9. Plenty of theists believe atheists do feel that way

and aren't interested in hearing what actual atheists have to say about it.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #9)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:38 PM

10. I know. But we don't feel that way. We understand

the reality and live our lives in recognition of it. It is enough.

That frightens religionists.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #2)

Fri May 18, 2018, 05:07 PM

14. I am not arguing for religion

 

But there has been ritual for all of Human history, even evidence that Neanderthals practiced rituals. I have to believe that spirituality has some sort of evolutionary purpose.


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Response to SoFlaDem (Reply #1)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:15 PM

3. I didn't ask about belief in gods.

I asked how the world would be if no gods ever existed.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #3)

Fri May 18, 2018, 05:39 PM

15. I'm sorry

 

Didn't realize you were just looking for an argument.

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Response to SoFlaDem (Reply #15)

Fri May 18, 2018, 06:18 PM

17. The poster merely clarified the question for you

since you seem to have misunderstood it. How is that looking for an argument?

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Response to SoFlaDem (Reply #15)

Fri May 18, 2018, 06:32 PM

19. I was just trying to make the question I asked clear.

It wasn’t about belief. The question was about existence.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #19)

Sat May 19, 2018, 09:48 AM

52. To quote Antonio Porchia

 

"Would there be this eternal seeking if the found existed"

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Response to SoFlaDem (Reply #1)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:48 PM

13. Religions pit groups of people against

Each other.

Early on, small groups fought for territory for their economic survival. Now, they fight for mythological ideologies, i.e. superstitious religions.


The only thing needed for morality is empathy.
And that empathy is usually hardwired until some twisted parenting beats it out of a child.


I could pontificate about theories of the psychological motivations of becoming a Republican and formation of the "Republican personality" but I don't have the time right now. Simply put, I think it's rooted in misplaced anger. Most religions forbid appropriate expression of anger within families.


Edited to add: religion is what allows people to look to a god instead of problem solving for themselves. Ever met a global warming denier who wasn't religious?

And their philosophy of procreation is choking the planet and killing all of us.
But pray to god and he'll save us -phooey.


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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:17 PM

4. like it is now..

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Response to LSFL (Reply #4)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:20 PM

7. ...

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:19 PM

5. I wouldn't have had to sit through...

 

Hours of boring church and Sunday school.

I'd have regained hundreds of lazy Sunday mornings.

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #5)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:39 PM

11. Not necessarily.

What if no gods ever existed, but most people (including whoever made you go to Sunday school) were convinced otherwise? You'd still have had to waste all those Sundays.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:20 PM

6. Coitus wouldn't wake up the neighbors

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #6)

Fri May 18, 2018, 06:33 PM

20. Omfg.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:36 PM

8. There are no gods.

Perhaps the question should be, "What would the world be like if people didn't believe there are gods/religion?".

The wars that have been fought for thousands of years due to and based on religious beliefs would not have occurred.

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #8)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:40 PM

12. I think the question is a good one just the way it is.

Your question is interesting, too, but it is a very different question.

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #8)

Fri May 18, 2018, 06:36 PM

21. for those who believe gods exist the

question is meaningful.

p.s. the iPhone spell checker is a monotheist. It insists on replacing “gods” with “god’s”.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 06:14 PM

16. Arn't gods just a construct of the human mind?

I mean I don't see animals or plants with gods..
m

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Response to mitch96 (Reply #16)

Fri May 18, 2018, 06:28 PM

18. Well I think they are, but other people think

they are real. The hypothesis for you and me is answered “as it is”. I’m just curious how those who believe that gods exist think what a world where there were no gods would be like.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #18)

Fri May 18, 2018, 06:57 PM

22. A world with out a god...hummm

I think it would kill all hope for them... How would you explain the un explainable? The term "gods will" slips easy off the tongue. Faith and hope from what I've seen, are linked. With out a god all that goes away..
Also how would the church sell to the crowd with out some magic and mysticism??? Wait, if there is no god is there no church?
m

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Response to mitch96 (Reply #22)

Fri May 18, 2018, 07:05 PM

23. But I see no reason why religion wouldn't exist.

Again the question is not directly about belief in gods.

There are two possibilities: we live in a world where gods exist, or we live in a world where gods do not exist.

For people who are atheists, the answer is simple: a world without gods would be exactly like this world.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 07:35 PM

24. You obviously liked my post.

Glad to be a positive influence on you and the conversation here.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:23 PM

25. Your question implies that gods exist.

My answer is that all gods are a reflection of the Creator.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #25)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:28 PM

26. Nope. Let me clarify.

There are two possibilities: we live in a world where gods exist, or we live in a world where gods do not exist.

The question asks you to assume that the second possibility is true about this world, that it is a world where gods do not exist.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #26)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:32 PM

28. Understood.

As one person once said:

Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer.


That person was Francois Marie Arouet, also called Voltaire.

However:

Déiste, et non athée, le philosophe trouve la religion nécessaire, pour donner des règles de bonne conduite au peuple : « Je veux que mon procureur, mon tailleur, mes valets croient en Dieu ; et je m’imagine que j’en serai moins volé. » Il n’est pas le seul bourgeois à le penser.


https://www.histoire-en-citations.fr/citations/voltaire-si-dieu-n-existait-pas-il-faudrait

Deist, but not an atheist, the philosopher found religion to be necessary as a source of rules...etc.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #28)

Sat May 19, 2018, 07:19 AM

45. Well sure. I think it is vanishingly unlikely

gods exist, and yet here we are in a world full of people worshipping make believe gods.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #45)

Sun May 20, 2018, 02:34 PM

59. Voltaire disagreed. eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #59)

Sun May 20, 2018, 03:34 PM

60. Well no. Again you seem to think the question

was about belief, but it wasn’t. It was about the fact of existence.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #28)

Sat May 19, 2018, 11:51 AM

58. In other words...

Voltaire didn't believe in an interventionist god, but he found such belief beneficial in keeping totalitarians in check and his maid from pilfering his possessions. This idea is obviously elitist, but such was the world in which Voltaire lived.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:28 PM

27. Exactly as you are experiencing it now

because that is what is.

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #27)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:33 PM

29. Or...........

that is what you believe to be true.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #29)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:50 PM

33. it's all I have evidence for or reason to believe

I'd think otherwise if there was anything to persuade me it was so. But thus far,

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #33)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:53 PM

34. I understand your position. eom

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Response to RockRaven (Reply #27)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:55 PM

36. Right

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:33 PM

30. Depends what your definition of existed is.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:35 PM

31. Probably be a lot fewer wars nt

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:47 PM

32. Fewer Charleton Heston movies.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:54 PM

35. As it does.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 09:25 PM

37. We wouldn't have Bach's Mass in B Minor

or his Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring.

No Sistine Ceiling.

No Acropolis (temple to Athena).

No Paradise Lost.

No Dante's Inferno.

No Ovid's Metamorpheses.

No Angkor Wat.

Of course, we might have art and music equally sublime, but not through "divine inspiration."

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #37)

Fri May 18, 2018, 10:31 PM

40. But what about Wagner!!??

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Response to edhopper (Reply #40)

Fri May 18, 2018, 11:45 PM

42. Well, yeah, not to mention all that awful "Christian Rock."

Then again, there's all that amazing Gospel Music.

Like most everything, there's some good, lots of bad, some amazing (Mozart's Requiem, most everything by Bach) some hideously awful (Jesus Christ Superstar) and lots and lots of shit too dull even to be remembered.

Gluck's Orpheus is pretty amazing. The other day I saw Cocteau's "Orpheus" which used a lot of Gluck as sound track.

Wasn't Orpheus something like a god? Mythological anyway. And without the gods to mock, Aristophanes would have been right out of a job. But then again, we wouldn't have had all those cheesy Italian Hercules movies.

Just gotta take the bad with the good, I suppose.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #42)

Sat May 19, 2018, 09:39 AM

51. And we couldn't collect these





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Response to edhopper (Reply #51)

Sat May 19, 2018, 09:49 AM

53. Yikes!

And who could forget "Drop Kick Me Jesus Through the Goalposts of Life"?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #51)

Sat May 19, 2018, 10:31 AM

56. Those are creepy as hell. Just saying. nt.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #37)

Sat May 19, 2018, 07:12 AM

43. Why? Religion does not require that gods exist.

I see no reason to believe that a world where no gods exist is a world without belief in gods.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #43)

Sat May 19, 2018, 08:56 AM

49. Quite right.

I didn't get that distinction when I first read your post.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #37)

Sat May 19, 2018, 08:50 AM

48. I don't think you know how art works

Artists can't stop themselves. They have to express. Bach would still have written masterpieces.

Without gods, Lennon would never have written Imagine. He didn't need any to write the rest.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 09:32 PM

38. You mean what if men never invented gods.

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Response to gibraltar72 (Reply #38)

Sat May 19, 2018, 07:20 AM

46. No. I mean if it is a fact about the world.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 10:30 PM

39. It would look exactly the same

as it does now. Because, you know, no gods.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 10:32 PM

41. I think it would be a vast void

I will try to put this in words because my thoughts always don’t make on to paper correctly if you know what I mean (plus I’m doing this on my phone makes it even harder)
In my mind I think humans have to have someone of something to look up to (and to blame for things that go wrong) So we always need a leader for some you may be the leader but in times you may turn to another.

As for wars if it wasn’t a religious war it would be about something else.
Ownership of something, the size of something whose better at something etc
Whois correct etc.

I even think animals and plants have their “God’s” in their way. animals have their leaders some animals collect things and store them away in away and would fight to not let others get them this is worshipping in a way plants lean toward the sun again could be sorta a worship after all it is life sustaining for them to do it just like for many the hope and faith they put in their Gods is life sustaining for them.

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Response to thinkingagain (Reply #41)

Sat May 19, 2018, 07:15 AM

44. Again you are referring to belief in gods.

I did not ask about belief. I asked about existence. Either gods exist or they don’t. Assume they don’t. How is the world any different?

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #44)

Sat May 19, 2018, 07:40 AM

47. Maybe you can tell us how you think it would be different

I still think there’d be a nothingness a void.
A black hole.

By the way I like how you make me have to think & think it is not a simple answe. There may not be a real answer. At least in my opinion that the way you say does not boil down to gods & belief of some sort in the end.

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Response to thinkingagain (Reply #47)

Sat May 19, 2018, 09:32 AM

50. I think this world is exactly that: a world

where no gods exist. It is exactly the way it is now.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Sat May 19, 2018, 09:49 AM

54. Better.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Sat May 19, 2018, 10:06 AM

55. Man would conger up a different loophole to escape responsibility for being inhumane. nt

 

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Response to Voltaire2 (Original post)

Sat May 19, 2018, 11:05 AM

57. Exactly...

...as it is now.

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