Why should God need HELL?

[Soph0571]

For people of faith God is omnipotent, right? Well, if you believe that God is omnipotent then why would he need to create the fiery inferno of internal damnation, commonly referred to as hell?

The definition of omnipotent, courtesy of Oxford Dictionaries on line is as follows:
(Of a deity) having unlimited power:God is described as omnipotent and benevolent

Surely it is not unreasonable to make the logical leap that an omnipotent God, ergo one with unlimited power, would excel at persuading a soul to accept and atone and see the error of their ways, get the thumbs up to enter the pearly gates.

God is all powerful, yes? Surely if he only wanted believers, he could easily have only created believers. Therefore, why did he take the time and energy to create non-believers? Just to send them to hell? That does not make sense. On the other hand if he chose to make both believers and non-believers as part of humanities rich tapestry of delights, it is surely, therefore, all part of the all-powerful all seeing plan of an omnipotent God, and there would no need for a God made Hell?

If we look at it from a different perspective, if God’s omnipotence has limits placed upon it, which is an oxymoron I know, and cannot influence philosophies or perceptions of the soul, then surely any logic to banishment of the soul to eternal damnation would serve no purpose. By definition such a punishment would logically be considered immoral and as God is a moral God, by all definitions of faith, that is something he would not do.

So, if God has the power to make us all believers to save us from hell, surely he should do so. If he chooses not to exercise that power then punishing us for something he has the power to change, must be construed as an unjust punishment. If God is a just God then he would never mete out an unjust punishment, therefore there is no need for a God made Hell. Yes?

[50 Shades Of Blue]

1. K & R

So glad I'm done with it all!

[Hav]

2. Like with all inconsistencies in religion,

I think definitions already changed from an omnipotent god because you can construct all kinds of paradoxes with an all powerful god.
But the actual point is of course a good one: If you had the power to save people from eternal punishment, doesn't it make you a monster if you don't? Especially if you are the one who made up the rules that sends people to hell.

And a similar question that was already brought up by comedians, if you are bad person who lived against God's commandments, why would the devil punish you?

[Corvo Bianco]

3. He wants adoration. Like the men who made him up

His major motivator is fear. Love me or else.

[Major Nikon]

4. There's plenty of need for it

Once you consider all of the mythology was invented as a form of behavioral control over other people. There's no more basic form of behavioral control than carrot and stick. Other religions such as those devised in the Eastern world and in certain native cultures have far more sophisticated systems, but it's still all about controlling other people.

[bitterross]

5. Free Will

He gave humans Free Will so they have choice and they can make on their own choices. He apparently needed something as a stick because the carrot of Heaven wasn't quite enough.

[Ferrets are Cool]

10. A burning stick

[Mariana]

6. Who says God NEEDS Hell?

There is no good reason to jump to the conclusion that an omnipotent god is necessarily good and just and loving and so on. I know the Christian god's PR people have put that idea out there and a lot of people believe it, but it doesn't really fit. The character described in the stories isn't like that at all.

[Major Nikon]

15. The god of the bible killed at least 2 million. Satan only 10.

And even those 10 were on a bet with god.

If we as mere puny humans can never know god's will, then how can we possibly know his intentions are good?

[Pope George Ringo II]

22. My recollection is that the Satan character only killed 5 in the Job wager?

I think his actual count not working as an agent of the Jehovah Monster is 5. I'm okay with that because, hey, Luke Skywalker killed some stormtroopers too. Heroes kill the bad guy's minions in a lot of stories.

[The Genealogist]

7. God doesn't need hell

Powerful people need hell to keep the underlings obedient.

[gtar100]

8. God's omnipotents aside, Hell makes sense as a metaphor

by looking at it from a different perspective. The idea of eternal damnation of souls is an absurd idea but one full of power in the heads of men and women who are trying to manipulate and control others. I find this to be the most reasonable explanation for the existence of this idea of eternal punishment. Eternal punishment, however, even for the most heinous of crimes on earth, is absurd because at some point it ceases to be punishment and simply becomes sadistic.

I believe this perspective is of human origin because it serves human interests. But I don't dismiss the concept of Hell as false, I very much believe it to be real. Not as some moralistic punishment but as natural consequence of wrong action. The eternal nature of Hell isn't because souls go there and stay there forever, it's because wrong actions never lead to good results. To put it another way, evil actions never result in good, only more pain and suffering. People can and do learn from their mistakes and leave the confines of Hell. But things like envy, avarice, sadism, gluttony, abuse, neglect, etc., never lead to positive ends. And that I believe to be an eternal truth.

Sometimes it takes some real hard knocks to get the message through, and some may never get it before they pass away, but to think anyone is deserving of eternal punishment shows a vindictiveness that hasn't really thought through the immensity of eternity - or considered a better aim, redemption (to use a religious term), or just simply one who realizes the errors of their way and takes personal responsibility to learn and grow and make ammends where necessarily . As in, we must learn from our mistakes or risk suffering the consequences. Money and numbing agents can only protect someone for so long against natural consequences. It's also similar to that aphorism of doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result. It just doesn't happen. It applies from the simple (i.e., me being a jerk to my sister) to the profoundly complex evil (i.e., despicable people planning and causing genocide). Never leads to good results.

The idea of a God who punishes that which it creates flies in the face of logic, reason, compassion and even in the face of practicality. The Christian church decided to tie one of its masts to this notion of eternal punishment and that is too bad for them. Their problem...walk away from it. But that our worst days and suffering through our worst behaviors can be described as going through Hell, what better description is there. Good is not possible to achieve through evil means. That is what I get out of the metaphor of eternal Hell.

[Major Nikon]

16. It does help the weak minded sleep better at night

...content in the knowledge that the wicked will ultimately be punished and they will receive a reward for a lifetime of being manipulated.

[Ferrets are Cool]

9. The imaginary being known as God didn't create Hell...

men who wanted to create a boogieman to scare people to worshiping them and giving them money did that. If there is no "reason" for giving up all the nice things in life, why in hell would one do so?

[rurallib]

11. I believe you have cracked the case!

[LakeArenal]

12. Why would the perfect god create such imperfect beings..

Then spend the next 6000 years punishing humans for his imperfections?

And man can that old geezer hold a grudge!! Forgiving my ass.

[Duppers]

14. Zactly. Only one answer: "God" is a sadist.

Using us pawns for his own entertaining game.


Once presented this to a believing friend who told me that I "twist things with words."

She hadn't much experience with logic.

[LakeArenal]

17. You do have the best words. Bigly ones and all of them.

[Duppers]

20. 🤗

[Iggo]

13. Why would he want it?

Their god tortures his own children...for eternity...and blames them for it.

And they don't see anything wrong with that.

[LakeArenal]

18. Yea I hate Republicans..

Oh we weren’t talking about them...
Confused for a second

[Igel]

19. Am Christian. Sort of.

But I haven't changed doctrine, just confidence.

My point, though, is that there are Xian views (a small minority, now) that see two hells.

The first is the grave. Yippee, we all die. "Hell has no control over you" = "the grave ..." The dead know nothing. They sleep. And they're in the grave, wherever that is. (For my father, for example, it's a metal urn sitting on the floor in the corner, under where my violin is hanging. Hi, dad, hope you like how I play Vivaldi's "Summer" concerto! Oh, wait, "liking" would involve knowing what's happening. He's dead.)

The second is basically a trash incinerator. That was gehenna, the valley of the sons of Hinnom outside of Jerusalem, which was a dump where people burned their refuse. At the end, only those who reject the opportunity are disposed of. Not to suffer forever in rejection or loneliness or whatever. Just gone. In the narrative, however you construct it, at some point there's no place for such a hell and there's no mention of it. They're dead, forgotten, and everybody else moves on.

The rest is what Greek or Middle Eastern myths about the afterlife became after being syncretized and massaged into something useful by the church a couple of centuries after Paul, as amended as needed in later centuries.

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. How many angels dance on the head of a pin?

These are pointless questions. Demonstrate God exists and then maybe we can have a conversation about why he'd create Hell. In the meantime, I'll continue under the assumption both are opposite sides of the same bullshit coin.

[Duppers]

23. I think you may have

Misconstrued the OP's intent.

I think Soph was trying to drive home a point. Note the forum.

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. I know where I am, thanks.

A religious question raised in the religion forum can still be pointless.

[guillaumeb]

25. People need Hell.

Hell serves a function similar to prison.

[qazplm135]

28. yeah but the vast majority of folks get out of prison

and they don't get, intentionally, tortured while there.

It's a pretty crappy metaphor designed to frighten folks into following a religion.

do this or you get eternal torture!

[guillaumeb]

29. Prison is legal torture.

Framed as rehabilitation at one time.

But the ruling class need things to control and motivate. Sometimes they use religion, sometimes they use patriotism.

[zipplewrath]

26. Free Will

Hell is the counterpoint to free will. You have free will so the suggestion is one needs hell to entice one to choose to do what is right. I'm not so big on the free will concept so I don't really see the need for a hell either. Mind you, the new testament doesn't spend alot of time on hell. It is really borne out more in non-biblical writings.

[Brainstormy]

27. Without a Sell-By Date

how are you going to get any converts?