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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 04:28 AM Apr 2023

I have a theological question and I would like a serious answer please.

Consider the theater-piece "Die Physiker" ("the physicists" ) by Friedrich Dürrenmatt.
In it, the protagonist Dr. Moebius pretends to be insane and had himself committed to an insane-asylum. He has made an outrageous scientific discovery. If it were ever to fall into anybody else's hands, this discovery would enable new technologies and weapons more horrifying and destructive than anyone can imagine. He knows that if his discovery were to fall into ANYONE'S hands, it would be the end of mankind. So he leaves his wife and children behind, pretends to be insane and strangles a pure, innocent, loving nurse to death, in order to be shunned and forgotten as a dangerous mad-man.




Then I thought to myself: "Couldn't the same thing happen for religion?"

Imagine discovering incontrovertible, undeniable proof that the claims of religion are true. Imagine that what you discovered is absolutely horrifying.
(For example that heaven is fake and that an eternity of torture in hell awaits all of us. No matter your faith, your good deeds, or whether you are a baby who has neither. All of us, upon death, will be be tortured in hell for all of eternity.)

Imagine discovering an undeniable religious truth so horrifying that it will cause suffering and pain beyond anyone's wildest nightmares.

Would you still publish this ultimate, undeniable religious truth about the true nature of the universe?
The only correct one true faith that anyone will automatically believe in once they have seen your proof?
The highest and most final divine truth there is?

Even though the truth is absolutely horrifying?



Or would you deny the one and only true faith and keep it a secret?

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TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
1. We live in a world of dualities, so I find it difficult to believe...
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 04:37 AM
Apr 2023

that Hell exists without a a Heaven to balance it. And vice versa.

Of course, it is entirely probable that neither exists and we keep stumbling through as we have been.

rampartc

(5,407 posts)
2. religion teaches duality
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 05:42 AM
Apr 2023

my experience is that we live in a world of spectrums and gradations pf color and shadow, too complex to color in black & white.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
5. You missed the premise: You cannot reject this hypothetical divine truth.
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 07:11 AM
Apr 2023

Or is that your answer?

When faced with the ultimate divine truth, and you don't like it, you would make up a fake religion to make the true religion go away?

303squadron

(545 posts)
3. You've stated the problem incorrectly
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 06:32 AM
Apr 2023

It is not our job to discover the incontrovertible and undeniable truths about the claims of religion. If they were true, the almighty would provide those truths for everyone to see and would not require anyone to discover them. In that case, there would be only one religion, faith would be replaced by fact, and God would speak for himself.

The history of man has shown that 4000 Gods later is proof that the scenario outlined above in the op will never happen.

Croney

(4,660 posts)
4. It would be redundant. Half the world (not a precise figure) believes
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 06:37 AM
Apr 2023

that a good number of people are going to hell--just not themselves. If you prove hell exists, you're proving the existence of everything associated with it, including the reasons for going there and a way to avoid it.

Believers in hell also believe in heaven and ghosts and spirits. They don't believe in the gods of Greek mythology, but if you ask them to use that same reasoning and apply it to their belief in "God," they can't or won't.

Talking about proof of hell is a good example of the correct way to use the phrase "begging the question." It's misused 99% of the time nowadays.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,315 posts)
7. I don't think any religious truth would be seen as "undeniable" by everyone
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 07:16 AM
Apr 2023

In your particular example, there would be no benefit to anyone living by telling them - they can't mend their ways and avoid their fate. I suppose if it was "undeniable", then we might all avoid having children, so there wouldn't be any more to be tortured forever. Keeping it a secret would mean you've allowed that suffering, so that seems bad.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
13. Religion requires the suspension of reason
Mon May 1, 2023, 01:30 AM
May 2023

No amount of evidence is going to deter the so-called true believers

edhopper

(33,576 posts)
10. What I see
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 09:44 AM
Apr 2023

is that there is no such thing as undeniable, incontrovertible truth that everyone would accept.
I could post a long list of such truths that many people today do not accept.

anciano

(994 posts)
11. I believe that as mortals
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 10:18 AM
Apr 2023

we are endowed with only enough understanding to function as mortals.
"Anything that a Supreme Being would require the human race to know would be equal to all, universally understood and without question. Creation reveals to us all that is necessary for us to know." --- Thomas Paine, "The Age of Reason"

Karadeniz

(22,513 posts)
12. Letter of James: from those who have much, more is required. This applies to knowledge, too. Your
Sun Apr 30, 2023, 12:23 PM
Apr 2023

person should air his knowledge, but not everyone will accept it. The poor (in spirit) will always be with us.

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