America’s religious divide: Can the peace be with us?

[rug]

By Colette M. Jenkins Beacon Journal religion writer
Published: September 1, 2012 - 10:30 PM | Updated: September 2, 2012 - 12:37 AM

America has been characterized as a nation that tolerates many faiths and somehow keeps diversity from dividing her people.

Exactly how true that is may depend on the person you ask.

When Akron area people representing a variety of religious persuasions sat in focus groups recently to discuss their beliefs, tolerance became hard work.

Differences in core values surfaced immediately.

http://www.ohio.com/news/local-news/america-s-religious-divide-can-the-peace-be-with-us-1.331256

[mr blur]

1. Who gives a fuck?

[rug]

2. These people:

“Absolutely it’s a Christian nation,” was one quick response.

But another disagreed strongly: “It’s not a Christian nation, it’s not founded on the Bible, it’s founded on our two documents.”

As debate bounced from one side of the table to the other, one woman sat at the end, moving her head as if watching a tennis match — back and forth. Sometimes she smiled, sometimes she grimaced.

- snip -

“When I hear that, it frightens me and hurts me because not so much that I’m Jewish, which I am, but I feel excluded by that.”

Thanks for taking the time you say you don't give a fuck. But it wasn't necessary. It's already evident.

[cbayer]

5. I guess if you don't, then nobody should, because you and you alone set the standard

for what is interesting and important.

What a stupid ass comment you have made here. Why don't you post something that you think people should give a fuck about?

Go ahead. Try it.

[cleanhippie]

3. We will not know religious peace in this country until...

...religious people can learn to keep their religion to themselves.

Until religious people can learn to stop forcing their religion on everyone else.

Until religion becomes "personal", we will never have religious peace. Ever.

[Shadowflash]

4. Amen!

well said.

[longship]

6. Yup! Plus we need to quash the Christian Nation meme. nt

R&K

[Angry Dragon]

7. So many gods, so little time

Choose your god today and be in heaven tomorrow

[cbayer]

9. That really has absolutely nothing to do with this article.

[Angry Dragon]

13. You have all these Christian religions saying they all believe in the same god

and all they do is fight over who has the inside track to god
They all say something different about their god
The only thing one can assume from this is that there are a whole bunch of gods out there

and if you say that god is different things to different people, then what do you need a religion for??
Because there is no one way to that god

That is why my statement is valid and that god promises heaven

[cbayer]

15. That's not really what they are arguing about here.

IMHO, everyone who has a belief in god sees god in a different way. That doesn't really mean that there are a whole lot of gods, only that individuals experience their god differently. The *need* for religion is multi-faceted. For some, it helps define the indefinable. It may bring community. It may lend structure and provide guidance.

Many, many people who believe in god do not believe in *one way* at all. That is a fundamentalist idea.

[cbayer]

8. Dialogue is where it all starts.

I hope they will find that they have more in common than they do differences.

It's hard to hate people when you are sitting on the same couch and looking them in the eye.


I think the author could have done a better job of distilling this, but much of it is interesting.

[Jim__]

10. "It's hard to hate people when you are sitting on the same couch ..." - Yes!

[cbayer]

11. I saw Jon Stewart interview this guy that was raised by two lesbians.

He wrote a book about it, but the most interesting thing he talked about was his project of dinner parties.

He encouraged people to invite a GLBT couple and a straight, but prejudiced, couple over for dinner. He made it a point to NOT talk about GLBT issues, but to just have the two couples at the same dinner table. I think it's brilliant.

[SarahM32]

12. Shows the ignorance of the true purpose of religion, and of the real intent of the Founding Fathers.

It especially shows the importance and the need of this message, and particularly the articles on Quotes of the Founding Fathers Regarding Religion, and About Christianity.

[Adsos Letter]

16. Who is the current Messenger?

I didn't catch a name from the article you posted.

[SarahM32]

17. Only the shadow knows.

He says it's the message, not the messenger that's needed.

He wrote under a pen name for 20 years, until 2010 or 2011 (I forget exactly when the change came.) Then his message was edited and summarized on the site that had been created to promote his work (http://cjcmp.org), The Coalition of Jews, Christians and Muslims for Peace, which then became The All Faiths Coalition for Peace, Freedom and Justice, which established three more layers at http://messenger.cjcmp.org.

The message contains a new, innovative interpretation of Jewish and Christian prophecies that submits that the messianic prophecies in the book of Isaiah say that the Messiah (the "anointed, chosen servant of God&quot is first "striken and afflicted," is "hidden in the shadow of God's hand," sends "his work before him," "does not cause his voice to be heard in the street" (and therefore does not speak as an orator from behind podiums or pulpits) -- all of which is consistent with what Jesus of Nazareth later said, that the son of man to come would "i]first be rejected by his generation and suffer many things," but would issue judgment, reveal the truth, show us things to come, and honor Jesus for what he really was.

I think he's the opposite of men who do seek the limelight, who do speak from behind podiums or pulpits to gain personal influence and power. Instead, he says his mission is to liberate and empower all humanity, and reform the way we choose and regard leaders so that we may finally establish government that is really of, by, and for the people.
.

[Adsos Letter]

22. Thank you for taking the time to explain that SarahM32.

[dimbear]

14. There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution.It is a lie of the Left

Pat Robertson, 1993.

To every thing
Turn turn turn
There is a season
Turn turn turn
A time for peace
A time for war .........

Choose, my friends. Can there be peace with such men?

[SarahM32]

18. Speaking of Pat Robertson quotes ...

"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense, I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist." -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, 1991

[LARED]

19. Seems to me Americans have an extraordinary high level of religious peace.

Disagreement and dialog are good things. We rarely hurt each other over our religious difference, we rarely (if ever) fight wars with over our beliefs. All and all debate stays pretty peaceful and passionate.

What an intellectually dull place America would be if everyone kept religion so personal it was considered a taboo subject for discussion. We should know what we believe and why we believe, and be unafraid to speak of it.

[cleanhippie]

20. "What an intellectually dull place America would be if everyone kept religion so personal..."

You need to get out more. There is more than enough intellectually stimulating (reading your posts, notwithstanding) things in the world to keep one occupied for a thousand lifetimes.

[LARED]

23. But why limit yourself or the public square?

If you don't like discussing religion you are free to not do so. Why do you want to shut down other people?

[cleanhippie]

25. Why do you feel the need to fabricate (some might say lie) things that no one has said?

If you want to have a discussion, you are going to need to find a way to be honest first.

[LARED]

26. You love the ironic, don't you

Coming from a guy that makes up stuff about me on a regular basis is rich.

What exactly did I fabricate?

[cleanhippie]

28. I'm not sure you are using that word correctly.

Public square? What the fuck are you talking about. Come on, man, just be honest. If your argument has merit, let it stand on that. There is no need to try and bolster your position with fabrication.

[LARED]

29. You know I am using the word correctly.

Your words make my argument.

We will not know religious peace in this country until......religious people can learn to keep their religion to themselves.

Until religious people can learn to stop forcing their religion on everyone else.

Until religion becomes "personal", we will never have religious peace. Ever.

Just be honest, your words don't lie. You believe the world would be a better place if religious people would just shut up.

[cleanhippie]

34. *sigh*

If you are unable to see the difference between people using their religion as the reasoning for creating policy for everyone or public officials using their religion as the reasoning for administering policy and an individual holding a personal religious belief, I'm not sure we can have an honest conversation.

[Goblinmonger]

21. "intellectually dull"?

Jesus, read a book or something some time. I would suggest starting with The Great Gatsby, hell of a read. That alone could keep you thinking for a decade.

[LARED]

24. Wow, I suppose it's to be expected

another atheist that believes people of faith are dull verses the bright light of the atheist mind. Thanks for the advise, but I'm quite well read. And the great Gatsby was a good read, although I think I read it last about 40 years ago

If not so intolerant and prejudiced it would be funny.

[cleanhippie]

27. What a total load of bullshit, LaRed. YOU are the one that said it would be "dull"

not anyone else. Why the fuck do you find it so difficult to be honest when having a conversation? Why do you need to resort to what amount to a lie? YOU are the one that said "What an intellectually dull place America would be...". No one called you dull. No one called you anything. You were responded to after making your statement "What an intellectually dull place America would be..." and now are trying make it look like someone called YOU dull.

What the fuck, LaRed? What the fuck?

[LARED]

30. When someone tells me to "go read a book sometimes" in the context of

stifling religious dialog I take that as a personal shot at me.

[cleanhippie]

32. "What an intellectually dull place America would be if everyone kept religion so personal..."

No, thats not a "shot" at anyone, is it?

And for the last fucking time, NO ONE is trying to stifle religious dialog. You will enjoy a lot more credibility if you can find a way to drop the persecution complex and deal honestly with those you are conversing with.

[Goblinmonger]

36. Couple things

1. Where did I EVER advocate "stifling religious dialog"?
2. Do you stand by your statement of not? Would the world be "intellectually dull" without religion?
2A. If no, then edit your post.
2B. If yes, are you seriously telling us that there is NOTHING other than religion that has made you think in your life?
2B(1) If no, then edit your post.
2B(2) If yes, then go read a book and find out that there are more things in heaven and earth, LARED....

[FONT COLOR="FFFFFF"]Assuming you are going to latch on the word "heaven" in the Hamlet quotation as evidence that without religion there would be nothing, please give me your argument that Shakespeare would never have been able to write what he did without religion and how that was the sole basis for his genius.[/FONT]

[skepticscott]

31. Why is it that practically every discussion

with apologists and religionistas here eventually gets to the point where they either have to lie or use every possible dodge to avoid answering simple, direct questions?

[cleanhippie]

33. I think it is because

their arguments only have so much substance to them. Once the shiny veneer is peeled away, it reveals a lackluster composite of half-truths, fallacies, and nonsense that will not hold up to direct questioning.

[Goblinmonger]

35. You really take the cake, you know.

You say that the world would be "intellectually dull" without religion, and when somebody who is an atheist takes offense to that and points out that there are other things to think about in the world beside religion, you have the fucking audacity to come after me like it was ME that was being a tool?

Hope you enjoy the tasty privilege you just had for breakfast.