Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Religion
Related: About this forum"Zion vs Zionism"
Last edited Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:50 PM - Edit history (2)
What we know as "Zionism" has little or nothing to do with what Zion actually is, because Zionism is about a "religious" justification for claiming land, whereas Zion, in a spiritual sense and according to its spiritual meaning, has nothing to do with land, or with a place or building, or with anything material.
Rather, Zion is the spiritual Source and the spiritual "foundation and cornerstone" (as Isaiah put it) through and upon which the Lord God (or the Great Spirit-Parent, which is God by any other name) sparked, manifested and evolved the physical world of life and form.
In spite of that, the idea of Zionism was the "religious" basis for establishing the modern State of Israel in 1948, and that idea was based upon the claim of a "God-given right of return" of all Jewish people to Jerusalem. And that claim is in question.
In 1948, after Americans and the British ensured that the U.N. approved the establishment of the new Jewish nation, and after the indigenous Arab peoples of the Mid-East objected strenuously, the very first Prime Minister of Israel said the following about that, which is very telling:
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out." -- David Ben-Gurion
That is telling for many reasons, because the attitude it expressed is still prevalent in Israel.
However, perhaps even more telling is that Ben-Gurion obviously did not know that the Qur'an commands Muslims to speak with great courtesy to Jews and Christians, because they "all believe in the same God" (29:46), and the Quran 2:136136 reveals that Muslims believe in the same God "which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received."
Ben-Gurion also stated the still-prevalent belief that God "promised" the land of Israel to the distant ancestors of the ancient Jews, and that is more telling than anything else. That is why it is important to examine the facts of the matter, because while Jews certainly should have the right to go wherever they wish in the world (like anyone else), the horrible consequences of the U.N. decision in 1948 should cause us to at least question how and why the "right" of the modern State of Israel to be established was granted on the basis of religion.
Granted, Israel is there now, and it perhaps has as much right to exist as any other nation established as a result of war and force of arms -- as so many other nations have been. But, because its existence and especially its continual expansion is so problematic, it is time to reexamine the situation.
(The above quote is the beginning of an article called "Zion vs Zionism."
.
InfoView thread info, including edit history
TrashPut this thread in your Trash Can (My DU » Trash Can)
BookmarkAdd this thread to your Bookmarks (My DU » Bookmarks)
1 replies, 1983 views
ShareGet links to this post and/or share on social media
AlertAlert this post for a rule violation
PowersThere are no powers you can use on this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
ReplyReply to this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
Rec (0)
ReplyReply to this post
1 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"Zion vs Zionism" (Original Post)
SarahM32
Dec 2012
OP
SarahM32
(270 posts)1. A companion article on The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.
http://messenger.cjcmp.org/israelipalestinian.html
The article discusses the history of the conflict, particularly since 1917. I think it is as fair as it can be, considering that the onus is really on Israeli Zionists and Christians Zionists -- and yet it is appreciative of the Jewish people as a whole, who have made many of the greatest contributions to the human condition.
Also, even though it is critical of the Israeli government, it is also highly critical of false "Jihadists" who commit indiscriminate mass murder. Essentially, it submits that both sides are wrong, and that two wrongs don't make a right.
The article discusses the history of the conflict, particularly since 1917. I think it is as fair as it can be, considering that the onus is really on Israeli Zionists and Christians Zionists -- and yet it is appreciative of the Jewish people as a whole, who have made many of the greatest contributions to the human condition.
Also, even though it is critical of the Israeli government, it is also highly critical of false "Jihadists" who commit indiscriminate mass murder. Essentially, it submits that both sides are wrong, and that two wrongs don't make a right.