Religion
Related: About this forumHow do Atheists explain death to their children?
For believers you say the person who passed away is in heaven and you will see them again. But I am curious how an atheist explains death to their children.
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Warpy
(111,339 posts)When out kids ask, we just tell them the truth: it's a one way trip and no one has ever come back to tell us what's on the other end of it. Alternatively, we tell them they go back to where they were before they were born.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)....did you have a pre-conceived idea about what we tell our kids?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I assume that Atheists tell their children that either they do not know what happens after death or there is nothing after death.
Bad Thoughts
(2,531 posts)I could not be counted as an atheist, but I find it to be irresponsible that people who believe in an afterlife don't frame "Heaven" as something that might await them, rather then something that will await them.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)Last edited Mon May 27, 2013, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)
After all, life here on planet earth is finite, and our lives mean nothing, really. Even if one achieves great things, what does it all mean if there is nothing beyond this?
Yeah, yeah, I realize that these questions have probably been pondered through the ages, but has anyone ever really answered them?
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)If there IS something, all your "nothing" preparedness is a waste.
If there ISN'T something, then still, all of your "nothing" preparedness is a waste.
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)Emptiness is a Buddhist concept that refers to the fact that there is nothing behind the mask, so to speak. Of course you can't really talk about these concepts because these are only words.
Bad Thoughts
(2,531 posts)I suspect that I would not use the word emptiness. Death is devoid of all the qualities of life: that is nothingness. Absence of being. Absence of self. Absence of consciousness. Absence of redemption. Absence of release.
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)cause those are bad thoughts! 
no seriously, sorry, I was just teasing.
Your statement gives rise to the question. Where to thoughts come from? Where do thoughts go?
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)They believe in causes and conditions.
Oh, and btw, no one knows what happens after death...even those who have "come back."
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Other people I know tell them that if they were poopy heads they have to burn in a pit of fire when they die.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Simple, see?
Renew Deal
(81,871 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)LynnTTT
(362 posts)I tell people that it is our duty as human beings to treat others well just because we are humans and not because we are trying to get into heaven. And alternately, after a trip to India, I think maybe reincarnation makes some sense; if you treat people and the world well while alive, you "move up" in your next life, until you reach Nirvana.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)We are born, we live, and then we die ...
No different than any other life form ..
It's an amazingly simple and consistent concept that automatically makes perfect sense ... Every life form endures death ... Every species die ...
We are no different
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Which is really quite beautiful when you talk about worm shit, fertilization and the growth of new weeds from a decomposed body. Its that whole circle of life thing.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I suppose it depends on the individual - some are taught all about Hell and fire and brimstone and scared into religious obedience, but the more chill religious varieties hold off on those particular teachings, or deemphasize them.
I know, we atheists are horrible people for teaching our children that death is the end of consciousness, and we should make the very best of our lives here on Earth.
But compare that to how many Catholics, and many Protestants, and many Muslims are raised - being told that they're evil scum that are completely depraved, having committed a horrible offense against God simply by being remotely descended from the person that committed the first sin. Oh, and they're incapable of ever being good enough for the angry deity that created them, and that they need to obey and constantly beg forgiveness, or they'll be forever tortured in a place of eternal anguish after they die!
But He loves you.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Not really a strange concept.
Purplehazed
(179 posts)having been brought up in a protestant family, I was taught that when people die their souls go to heaven to be with the lord. Never once, have I heard a promise that I would see them again. It may have been mentioned that so-and-so joined their wife/husband in heaven but I never heard any discussion of what that meeting would be like. I guess I assumed any reunification in heaven would be rather ethereal and not a simple "hey, how's it goin?"
In a way, I think it's tragic that parents need to explain death with what amounts to a fairy tail. Does the bible actually say anything about meeting loved ones in heaven? Children, I believe, actually have a keen understanding of death by observing dead insects, rodents, birds etc.
demwing
(16,916 posts)And though I've never read it in a Bible, I heard my parents (Southern Baptists) say the same as I was growing up. Hinduism, on the other hand, rejects the idea. In one parable, a grieving father weeps over the body of his dead son. The son miraculously revives, but doesn't recognize the man as his father. "In which life were you my father?" the boy asks the man, implying that the boy has had many lives, and many fathers - so why weep? Why be attached to illusionary relationships?
Deep13
(39,154 posts)It's a normal part of life. People's bodies stop working and then they die die. We feel sad. We miss the person we died. But we must get on with living.
DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)...and if I tried to explain, they would run off to sniff at promising scents, mark their territory, and happily chase the squirrels.
I have learned a lot from my children. We bipedal apes, in general, have a lot to learn from our four legged companions.
The Heaven/Hell fantasy is the biggest con job in the history of the ... well, I'd like to say Universe...but that would be presumptuous, so...the history of the Earth. It certainly has been a great source of revenue for Religion Incorporated, so I have to acknowledge the cleverness of RI's marketing department.
Death is death. Your brain stops functioning, your cells stop functioning, the microbes that constitute most of your physical being escape their habitats and you putrefy. My dogs don't worry about that.
Yesterday, as we walked around the fields we noticed that two of the neighbor's cows looked much less pregnant. Sure enough, there were two young calves in the pasture. One of the calves looked at us, strange creatures, and gamboled toward us, until mama blocked the way. It was beautiful to observe.
Today, on our afternoon circumnavigation, we looked for the calves. One, two, and ... three. Another, looking very weak and uncertain. Moma was beside it, nosing her/him up, to walk. Moma still had an umbilical cord trailing from her rear end, so we were observing a very new-born creature. We moved ourselves and the dogs along to allow the continuing birth to develop. One of the dogs resisted...he could smell the state of birth and life beginning and wanted to breathe in the experience.
Live for life. Death will happen. Enjoy them both.
no_hypocrisy
(46,187 posts)I told her we go to where we were before we were born, symmetry.
She found comfort in that concept.
I'd say the same thing to a child.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)Last edited Tue May 28, 2013, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)
But I would probably say that no-one knows for sure; but, I would also say that I think we go back to the way things were before we were born.
If that confuses them, I would say I think its like when you sleep without dreaming.
Iggo
(47,565 posts)Have fun while you're here.
Nothing more wonderful than being alive.
And such...
demwing
(16,916 posts)how do you square it against your progressive politics?
Iggo
(47,565 posts)By that I mean, what does a belief in an afterlife have to do with progressive politics?
demwing
(16,916 posts)unregulated excess. If there's no point to life other than enjoyment, then who cares about civility, economic justice, and human rights? Maybe caring about those things makes you happy, and that's fine, but maybe that's not the case for Mitt Romney. Maybe grabbing everything he can without concern for others is what makes him happy.
Do you care? I believe you do, otherwise why join DU?
So, how do you square your progressive politics against your philosophy of enjoyment?
Iggo
(47,565 posts)I gave a short overview of the kinds of things I say when I explain it to the kids. It's what I say when kids ask me about death.
It's not some canonized philosophy of how I live my life.
It's a simplified explanation of death for the kids. It has absolutely nothing to do with how and why I vote the way I do.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)By rejecting the idea of an afterlife, the lesson I learned is that life is precious. You only get one, you don't get a mulligan, so make the very best of it. And contrary to popular belief, atheists do have a lot of empathy, thus they go out and help others make the very best of their lives too.
Hey, Mitt Romney practices the religion that tells him that when he dies, he goes to planet Kolob, becomes a god, gets a harem of woman gods, then gets to go out, found his own world and start his own god franchise. Which he's probably planning to run in the same way he ran Bain Capital.
demwing
(16,916 posts)and some people that call themselves Christian are decidedly not. That is not, and was not my point.
My point is this - if life ends in nothingness, then why does it matter what we do, or say, while we yet live? No one is keeping track, no act has any real permanence, and the truths or lies we tell our children are as ephemeral as a dream.
So why does it matter?
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)Because while things might suck while we live, we can make life better for those who come after us. This gives us pleasure in knowing that our children and their children and their children's children will have that much better of a life.
demwing
(16,916 posts)but others may not.
To me, that matters, because I believe it is an ethical imperative to act with concern for others.
But if death is a darkness of non-existence which we all must enter, and every act done is both temporary, and subjectively measured on an ethical scale, then the things we say or do are ultimately of importance only to each individual, and have permanence only while we live.
And we live such short lives...
Mathematically, our actions are irrelevant.
Right?
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)You say we live short lives, but in relation to what? To a turtle our lives may be short, but to a dog we are ancient.
But if death is a darkness of non-existence which we all must enter, and every act done is both temporary, and subjectively measured on an ethical scale, then the things we say or do are ultimately of importance only to each individual, and have permanence only while we live.
Temporary in an absolute sense? I guess. But its anything but temporary relative to our sphere of influence. In an absolute sense the sun is going to expand and envelope the earth and all our works will tuned to ash. So everything done in this life, theist or not, will eventually be undone.
Similarly the works of the abolitionists back in the 1860's can be thought of as temporary. But, their actions went on to affect a great many people who came after them. So, relative to the history of humanity their actions were anything but temporary.
This can also be applied to the ethical scale. For instance, one can use humanism as a reference point that goes far beyond the individual. We can measure our actions on how they affect others and those who will come after us. Stopping and providing a random act of kindness might inspire others to do the same, which will then have a butterfly effect that benefit many many others and makes the world just that much more bearable.
So, in what sense are our actions irrelevant? We can affect countless others in our lifetimes. If we can't make our own lives more pleasurable then we can derive pleasure in the knowledge that we made the lives of others better.
Even in an absolute sense we are still making life better for others. Yes its temporary, but so are Buddhist sand pantings. That does not stop us from enjoying their beauty in those few moments in which they exist. Nothing can take away the fact that for a moment it did exist and had an influence on all those around it.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)and he's been dead for 15 years.
Your question is a silly one.
"Mathematically, our actions are irrelevant.
Right?"
Wrong. Actions and words can ripple across time.
demwing
(16,916 posts)for some animals, it's an entire lifetime
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)
Mariana
(14,860 posts)Somehow, Romney's belief that there is "some point to life other than enjoyment" hasn't curbed his excesses to any noticeable degree.
Perhaps Romney wasn't the best example to use in making this particular argument.
demwing
(16,916 posts)You missed my post #48:
and some people that call themselves Christian are decidedly not. That is not, and was not my point.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)As long as we live, those we loved are with us in our memories, and we will linger in the memories of those that love us when we are gone. All the rest is surprise.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)Why make up fairy tales?
demwing
(16,916 posts)Why make up "fairy tales?"
At the end of life, consciousness ends. Nothing persists. Death is not a door, it is a wall.
So, since nothing has permanence, and since nothing you do or say ultimately matters, what difference does it make what we say or do?
Truth is a myth. So why not go the fairy tale route?
Big Blue Marble
(5,150 posts)Believer or atheist, we have have no right to shape our children with our opinions.
Regardless of what you think you believe you are probably wrong.
I encouraged my children to think for themselves just as I do. I am not
so arrogant that I think I tell my children what happens after death or even in
this life. It is much healthier for them to grow into their own ideas and to discover
this world and all its realities themselves. That is the best gift that I gave
my children.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I think giving them the opportunity to see the world from different perspectives, including various religious and non-religious ones, then letting them decide for themselves is the way to go.
Since I believe that none of us knows what will or will not happen, it seems pointless to give them any kind of dogmatic response to this question.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)
Heddi
(18,312 posts)In the woods there grew a tree
A fine, fine tree was he
On that tree there was a limb
And on that limb there was a branch
On that branch there was a nest
And in that nest there was an egg
In that egg there was a bird
And from that bird a feather came
Of that feather was a bed
On that bed there was a girl
And on that girl there was a man
From that man there was a seed
And from that seed there was a boy
From that boy there was a man
And for that man there was a grave
From that grave there grew a tree
On that tree there was a limb
And on that limb there was a branch
On that branch there was a nest
And in that nest there was an egg
In that egg there was a bird
And from that bird a feather came
Of that feather was a bed
On that bed there was a girl
And on that girl there was a man
From that man there was a seed
And from that seed there was a boy
From that boy there was a man
And for that man there was a grave
From that grave there grew a tree
---
basically speaking, I was taught we are all from everything and from nothing, and we will go on to be fertilizer for the next generation and that generation will go on to be fertilizer and so on, and that we came from the fertilizer of others/things that have died, etc etc.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)Even made the SO watch it.
Too bad they didn't have a better budget, and that it was such a product of it's time...
But otherwise, a very good picture!
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)We eat them. Or, that's what I've heard at any rate.
Seriously, though. If I had children, I would tell them this life is probably all there is, so try to make it count.
demwing
(16,916 posts)then nothing counts, so why bother?
Just be honest, and tell them no one knows. It's a mystery.
Bad Thoughts
(2,531 posts)It might be best to "let the mystery be" (as the song goes), but not believing in an afterlife would not necessarily make someone more passive than if they believed. If all an person has is this life, they may be just as likely to hold onto it and make it meaningful as someone who believes that their life contributes to their afterlife. Conversely, both types are just as likely to let life slip by them because either life is meaningless or the afterlife is assured.
demwing
(16,916 posts)then there is no possibility for real meaning, just the temporary illusion of meaning.
So it doesn't matter what we tell the kids. Or, tell them whatever will make them happy for the moment, because a moment may be all they ever have.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Meaning comes out of our own minds. Nowhere else.
The meaning you give to your own life is perfectly legitimate. Create meaning for yourself and live it! Be authentic to your own values!
Yes, I'm a bit of an existentialist.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Bad Thoughts
(2,531 posts)... not what might follow.
demwing
(16,916 posts)All we know is that the body stops being "alive."
It's difficult to define life, all the more so to define a lack of life.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I don't understand this notion. Without an afterlife, nothing counts? Really?
Life is valuable because it is temporal. Accepting the finality of death provides the impetus not only to improve one's own life, but to improve the lives of others as well. This won't get you heaven, but will give you the satisfaction of knowing you'll leave the world a better place than when you entered it.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Probably a textbook fallacy, too.
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Everyone dies. They live on in the memories of those close to them - that's the only "afterlife" we have any evidence of.
Telling them there's a heaven and you'll see everyone again isn't "explaining" anything.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)wishful thinking as though it was the certain truth. Speaking for myself, I don't recall any of my children asking me to explain their death. They did sometimes ask about other animals deaths.
I felt that they assumed what I was saying about animals also applied to humans. I would have told them that had they asked.
My guess is that atheist worry less about death than religious people. But, that's just one man's opinion, not scientific data.
brush
(53,862 posts)
intaglio
(8,170 posts)A long rest when you are too tired or too hurt to carry on.
When they get older introduce them to more complex ideas.
Lets not forget that the idea that you need a reward after life for doing good things or performing ethical acts is a non-starter. Always do such things without expecting reward.
Socialistlemur
(770 posts)I tell mine it's important to take care of those who are elderly and/or near death, and tell them we will remember them and tell stories about them, their lives, what they did, and what they wanted us to do. This seems to work (it sure works for me). Telling them they went to heaven and so on is not something I can vouch for, and I don't have any reason to believe anybody who says they know what goes on.
EvilAL
(1,437 posts)as the end of life. The body stops working, your brain shuts down and you die. You don't 'go' anywhere. If the child is older it's easier to explain and for them to understand that consciousness isn't permanent. If they ask about heaven or where their dead relatives are I just tell them there is no heaven and their dead relatives are either burned into ashes or lying in the ground, dead. I never pussy footed around with them and tried to comfort them about it, death is death, it's serious and permanent.
