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rug

(82,333 posts)
Thu Feb 16, 2012, 03:41 PM Feb 2012

The Atheist Cosmological Argument

Adam Lee on February 16, 2012, 6:00 AM

In my past writings, I've made it a hobby to call attention to potent, but often overlooked, reasons to believe that atheism is true. Two of these that I've written about are the argument from mind-brain unity and the argument from locality. In the last few months, I've come to realize that there's another powerful argument for atheism that doesn't get as much attention as it should, and I want to discuss it today.

As creationists have brought up ad nauseam, the Earth is very well suited for life like ours. And that's true, and not at all surprising to an atheist: in a natural universe, we'd expect that beings like us would exist only where natural laws permit us to exist. If we found ourselves in a place where the laws of physics weren't conducive to our continued existence, we'd have reason to suspect supernatural intervention.

Of course, to decide how likely our existence is, you also have to take the background probabilities into account. If the Earth was the only life-supporting planet in a very small universe, as the medieval cosmologies taught and expected, then we might well suspect that someone had rigged the circumstances in our favor. What we need, to have a planet well-suited for life in a godless universe, is a large quantity of chance resources - in other words, enough time and space, enough opportunities to get it right, that eventually it would be reasonable for our number to turn up in the cosmic lottery.

To put it another way: If there's no intelligent supernatural creator tweaking the laws of physics to create a life-friendly cosmos, there's only one other scenario we'd have any right to expect: a very old, vast, and chaotic universe, one where it's plausible that a planet like ours and living beings like us could come about by chance.

http://bigthink.com/ideas/42490

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dmallind

(10,437 posts)
2. Not all that impressed really
Thu Feb 16, 2012, 04:01 PM
Feb 2012

I mean I get the idea, even agree with most of it, but other than a fairly basic refutataion and adaptation of the anthropic pronciple there's not much "there" there to be honest.

 

deadinsider

(201 posts)
3. I don't think this answers the cosmological argument
Thu Feb 16, 2012, 04:11 PM
Feb 2012

To my understanding, the cosmological argument is about cause. From a theological perspective, God is the first cause ('the unmoved mover'). However, all variations of this argument, whether religious or not, run into the same problem: infinite regress.

I agree with the content of the blog, but I don't think it ends the argument. I don't think anyone ever will; and I'm an atheist.

 

deadinsider

(201 posts)
4. Also,
Thu Feb 16, 2012, 04:20 PM
Feb 2012

a rebuttal to theological cosmological argument: who says there is only 'one' cause in the first place and not many.

Again, with infinite regress: once someone answers the quetion, you can use the argument again to refute the answer. 'A' caused the universe; well, what caused 'A'? And on and on...

So if you say 'God' caused it all, then what caused 'God'?

I find it interesting that in order to arrest the infinite regress 'God' is used with the stipulation that we don't really know what 'God' actually is. If so, how would anyone know 'God' caused it all if we can't explain 'God' in the first place.

Interesting stuff to think about. And if anyone is interested, try figuring out how the Ontological Argument is unsound especially as expounded by St. Anselm. I tend to agree with Kant in that existence is not a property. It's how sometimes logically sound arguments can seem illogical; but one can not really explain why.

I think maybe these types of questions are logical traps, which could be attributed to Godel's 'Incompleteness Theorem.'

Anywho...

Jim__

(14,076 posts)
5. Can you give an example of the type of cosmological argument you're talking about?
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 07:00 AM
Feb 2012

I'm curious as to what cosmological argument has the weakness you describe:

Again, with infinite regress: once someone answers the quetion, you can use the argument again to refute the answer. 'A' caused the universe; well, what caused 'A'? And on and on...
 

deadinsider

(201 posts)
7. From Wikipedia
Fri Feb 17, 2012, 09:35 AM
Feb 2012

The cosmological argument is an argument for the existence of a First Cause (or instead, an Uncaused cause) to the universe, and by extension is often used as an argument for the existence of an "unconditioned" or "supreme" being, usually then identified as God.

What caused the First Cause?

One objection to the argument is that it leaves open the question of why the First Cause is unique in that it does not require a cause. Proponents argue that the First Cause is exempt from having a cause, while opponents argue that this is special pleading or otherwise untrue. A brief review of the first premise in both arguments above, however, shows that the first cause is exempt precisely because it did not begin to exist or because it is not contingent or finite. Thus claiming that there is special pleading on the part of the first cause essentially amounts to a rejection of the formulation of either of the first premises above. The problem with arguing for the First Cause's exemption is that it raises the question of why the First Cause is indeed exempt.

Secondly, the premise of causality has been arrived at via a posteriori (inductive) reasoning, which is dependent on experience. David Hume highlighted this problem of induction and argued that causal relations were not true a priori (deductively). However as to whether inductive or deductive reasoning is more valuable still remains a matter of debate, with the general conclusion being that neither is prominent. Even though causality applies to the known world, it does not necessarily apply to the universe at large. In other words, it is unwise to draw conclusions from an extrapolation of causality beyond experience.

*end citation*

One could argue that the Big Bang could physically be called the "First Cause" because causal events have 'time' itself as a predicate, meaning time actually has to exist, and it did not 'before' the Big Bang. As you probably understand, time did not exist at the moment before the Big Bang due to the lack of the space-time continuum. However, I identify this as a problem somewhat loosley likened to the "Incompleteness Theorem" because we can not actually answer it; any answer to the question would require evidence that would involve empirical data. But data can not exist before existence.

The infinite regress is also a problem for truth itself; the sceptics like Sextus Empiricus realized this (this is where Descartes comes in, doubting everything, including his own actuality, but then finds that he must exist because he is actually think ing about it "I think, therefore I am.&quot

In order to 'prove' a logical proof there are predicates. But in reality, in order for the predicates themselves to be taken as true you would have to prove the predications of the predicates themselves, therefore leading to the necessity of yet another proof. And then you would have to proof the predicates for these predications you just used. This would go on forever. This is where the Postmodernists come in and say nothing has inherent value, as nothing can totally be proved to be ture. However, we know this is not true, not through logic, but rather our intuition. And no one has been able to provide a good logical argument for intuition as the definition of intuition reveals that it does not and can not depend on logic by its own definition.

I'm sure you have more questions, so do I.

edit: *** actually there are spots where I stated 'predicate' but should have probably used 'contigency' instead. But I hope you get the gist of my post.

Response to deadinsider (Reply #4)

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