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Related: About this forumNew definition of ‘dead’: PA doctors to suspend gunshot victims
Later this month, New Scientist reports that doctors at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Centers Presbyterian Hospital will be testing a procedure that will suspend gunshot and knife-wound victims in a state between life and death.
According to Samuel Tisherman, the surgeon leading the trial, although they are suspending life, we dont like to call it suspended animation because it sounds like science fiction. So we call it emergency preservation and resuscitation.
The procedure calls for replacing all of a patients blood with a cold saline solution to induce hypothermia. It was first used on pigs in 2002, at the University of Michigan Hospital in Ann Arbor. Massive hemorrhage wounds were inflicted on sedated pigs whose blood was replaced with a cooled saline solution. Their wounds were treated, and as they slowly warmed, the solution was replaced with their blood.
The pigs hearts began beating again typically on their own, but occasionally with electrical aid and they showed no ill cognitive or physical effects afterwards.
After we did those experiments, the definition of dead changed, said surgeon Peter Rhee, who helped refine the procedure. Every day at work I declare people dead. They have no signs of life, no heartbeat, no brain activity. I sign a piece of paper knowing in my heart that they are not actually dead. I could, right then and there, suspend them. But I have to put them in a body bag. Its frustrating to know theres a solution.
Weve always assumed that you cant bring back the dead. But its a matter of when you pickle the cells, said Rhee.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/26/new-definition-of-dead-pa-doctors-to-suspend-gunshot-victims-between-this-life-and-next/
According to Samuel Tisherman, the surgeon leading the trial, although they are suspending life, we dont like to call it suspended animation because it sounds like science fiction. So we call it emergency preservation and resuscitation.
The procedure calls for replacing all of a patients blood with a cold saline solution to induce hypothermia. It was first used on pigs in 2002, at the University of Michigan Hospital in Ann Arbor. Massive hemorrhage wounds were inflicted on sedated pigs whose blood was replaced with a cooled saline solution. Their wounds were treated, and as they slowly warmed, the solution was replaced with their blood.
The pigs hearts began beating again typically on their own, but occasionally with electrical aid and they showed no ill cognitive or physical effects afterwards.
After we did those experiments, the definition of dead changed, said surgeon Peter Rhee, who helped refine the procedure. Every day at work I declare people dead. They have no signs of life, no heartbeat, no brain activity. I sign a piece of paper knowing in my heart that they are not actually dead. I could, right then and there, suspend them. But I have to put them in a body bag. Its frustrating to know theres a solution.
Weve always assumed that you cant bring back the dead. But its a matter of when you pickle the cells, said Rhee.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/26/new-definition-of-dead-pa-doctors-to-suspend-gunshot-victims-between-this-life-and-next/
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New definition of ‘dead’: PA doctors to suspend gunshot victims (Original Post)
phantom power
Mar 2014
OP
Cryonics is becoming closer to reality than science fiction. Of course this is a long way from it
MillennialDem
Mar 2014
#10
blue neen
(12,319 posts)1. Wow.
This is amazing. The resulting possibilities could be enormous.
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)2. After effects on pigs aside,
I have to wonder what the long-term prognosis would be for someone after their cells were "pickled" (a remarkably poor choice of terms, imo).
liberalla
(9,243 posts)3. WOW! this sounds incredible
Think of the people that possibly could've been saved - John Lennon - JFK - RFK - MLK ??? probably not JFK, because of the brain injury...
"Human trials will have to meet strict criteria. The patient will have to have suffered a cardiac arrest after the gunshot or knife-wound, and must not have responded to conventional attempts to jump-start his or her heart. The chances of survival in such cases are less than 7 percent, so instead of continuing to try to restart the heart, Dr. Tishman and his team will flush cold saline through the patients heart and into his or her brain. After 15 minutes, the saline solution will have replaced all the blood in the patients body, preventing metabolic reactions from happening, which allows cells to survive without oxygen."
"preventing metabolic reactions from happening, which allows cells to survive without oxygen."
Fascinating.
If a patient comes to us two hours after dying you cant bring them back to life. But if theyre dying and you suspend them, you have a chance to bring them back after their structural problems have been fixed, Rhee said.
As a side note, Peter Rhee is the trauma surgeon who first worked on Gabrielle Giffords.
I wonder if he may decide to test this procedure in Tucson.
http://surgery.arizona.edu/faculty-profile/peter-m-rhee-md-mph
liberalla
(9,243 posts)4. also posted / more on this subject:
liberalla
(9,243 posts)5. a little more info from the New Scientist link
"That person will have suffered a cardiac arrest after a traumatic injury, and will not have responded to attempts to start their heart. When this happens, every member of Tisherman's team will be paged. "The patient will probably have already lost about 50 per cent of their blood and their chest will be open," he says. The team sees one of these cases each month. Their chance of survival is less than 7 per cent.
The first step is to flush cold saline through the heart and up to the brain the areas most vulnerable to low oxygen. To do this, the lower region of their heart must be clamped and a catheter placed into the aorta the largest artery in the body to carry the saline. The clamp is later removed so the saline can be artificially pumped around the whole body. It takes about 15 minutes for the patient's temperature to drop to 10 °C. At this point they will have no blood in their body, no breathing, and no brain activity. They will be clinically dead.
In this state, almost no metabolic reactions happen in the body, so cells can survive without oxygen. Instead, they may be producing energy through what's called anaerobic glycolysis. At normal body temperatures this can sustain cells for about 2 minutes. At low temperatures, however, glycolysis rates are so low that cells can survive for hours. The patient will be disconnected from all machinery and taken to an operating room where surgeons have up to 2 hours to fix the injury. The saline is then replaced with blood. If the heart does not restart by itself, as it did in the pig trial, the patient is resuscitated. The new blood will heat the body slowly, which should help prevent any reperfusion injuries.
The technique will be tested on 10 people, and the outcome compared with another 10 who met the criteria but who weren't treated this way because the team wasn't on hand. The technique will be refined then tested on another 10, says Tisherman, until there are enough results to analyse."
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129623.000-gunshot-victims-to-be-suspended-between-life-and-death.html
The first step is to flush cold saline through the heart and up to the brain the areas most vulnerable to low oxygen. To do this, the lower region of their heart must be clamped and a catheter placed into the aorta the largest artery in the body to carry the saline. The clamp is later removed so the saline can be artificially pumped around the whole body. It takes about 15 minutes for the patient's temperature to drop to 10 °C. At this point they will have no blood in their body, no breathing, and no brain activity. They will be clinically dead.
In this state, almost no metabolic reactions happen in the body, so cells can survive without oxygen. Instead, they may be producing energy through what's called anaerobic glycolysis. At normal body temperatures this can sustain cells for about 2 minutes. At low temperatures, however, glycolysis rates are so low that cells can survive for hours. The patient will be disconnected from all machinery and taken to an operating room where surgeons have up to 2 hours to fix the injury. The saline is then replaced with blood. If the heart does not restart by itself, as it did in the pig trial, the patient is resuscitated. The new blood will heat the body slowly, which should help prevent any reperfusion injuries.
The technique will be tested on 10 people, and the outcome compared with another 10 who met the criteria but who weren't treated this way because the team wasn't on hand. The technique will be refined then tested on another 10, says Tisherman, until there are enough results to analyse."
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129623.000-gunshot-victims-to-be-suspended-between-life-and-death.html
This is very exciting.
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)6. It's suspended animation
I don't care if they don't want to call it that, I'm an SF geek and this is suspended animation.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)7. Me too, I thought that was funny
If I ever invent anything that is like science fiction, I'm absolutely going to go around telling everybody "Holy crap, look at my invention, it's like fucking science fiction!"
sakabatou
(42,152 posts)8. Saline-induced hibernation?
Could that be a name for it?
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)9. but only for two hours.
Doesn't get you through the winter!
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)10. Cryonics is becoming closer to reality than science fiction. Of course this is a long way from it
but still...