Just so you know who we're dealing with...

[FiveGoodMen]

"As a result of my recent ministry on the Democratic Underground website (DU), I
was able to develop a simple critical thinking exercise to help atheists "come
out" regarding what they explicitly and/or implicitly believe or don't believe.

It appears to have been quite effective with the DU atheists, so I am presenting
it here for those who may wish to work through the exercise, step by reasonable
step."

(Emphasis mine)

...and then he goes on to copy that whole stupid Major/Minor premise nonsense.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29450

"DISCLAIMER!: The Maury_and_Baty list is not connected with any church. Its founder, Robert Baty, is a member of the church of Christ."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/

Just couldn't resist finding out a little more about the interloper in our midst.

I'm sure he won't mind. He's SO proud of everything he says! (He must be because he says it over and over and over and ... ... ... )

[rrneck]

1. He owes me a bullshit detector. nt

[Warpy]

12. yeah, he pinned mine, too

with springs coming out and a little wisp of smoke curling up.

It is incredible, the arrogance of such people.

[dmallind]

2. With which atheist was that sophomoric sophistry even close to "effective"?

I have more erm.... faith.... in you lot than that.

[FiveGoodMen]

3. Exactly.

The guy's seriously deluded.

[JNelson6563]

4. Does he post here in AA?

Wonder what his DU name is.

[RLBaty]

5. LOL! It's RLBaty!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29450

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123011403

[rrneck]

6. Yes, we see you. nt

[RLBaty]

7. Yes, I'm watching you watching me!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29450

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123011403 (see message #24)

[rrneck]

11. Self promotion.

You're doing it right. Of course it helps if you have something to promote.

[JNelson6563]

10. So who is it

that you have convinced with your sparkling intellect? Your clever method of making atheists see the light?

Just curious who you've had this success with.

Please answer quickly since, now that your purpose is known, you may or may not be posting in AA much longer.

Julie

[RLBaty]

13. Julie, Julie, Julie!

The light is on for you at my place, and will remain so.

I look forward to your successful completion of the Atheist 101 exercise:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29450

Others are welcome as well; there's plenty of classroom space and open, honest participants can't help but score a passing grade.

Others, not so much!

Sincerely,
Robert Baty

[dmallind]

15. Could you first demonstrate this "effective" approach?

You claimed you had one and that it worked here. Show us an example.

[RLBaty]

16. Been there, done that! It's your turn...

...to openly, honestly deal with those six, simple, fundamental steps in the critical thinking exercise with emphasis on atheism.

See you (and others) in class, or not:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29450

I will be glad to discuss your grade(s) and any disagreement you may have regarding the effectiveness of the exercise upon your completion of the exercise.

Sincerely,
Robert Baty

[dmallind]

26. Where? Prove it. Link to a thread that demonstrated this "effective" approach

You claimed that it was effective with *DU* atheists.

The day I need to learn from the likes of you is the day I kill myself.

[FiveGoodMen]

8. See posts 5 & 7

[RLBaty]

9. Regarding posts #5 & #7 of this thread!

Those messages include the following links:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29450

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123011403 (see message #24)

To date and time update: no DU students have enrolled!

[FiveGoodMen]

14. "no DU students have enrolled!"

Imagine that!

[mr blur]

23. I suggest you take your delusions, go away and come back when you've grown up.

You have nothing to teach anyone here. 40 years ago I started a Philosophy degree - we'd have left you behind in the first week.

Try Freeperland, they'd welcome you over there and the standard of discourse is pitched at just about your level.

[cleanhippie]

29. No "DU students" have enrolled because your "exercise" is a giant POS.

You do realize that people are laughing AT you, right?

[trotsky]

17. Wow, we all fell into his expertly constructed trap!

Or not. LOL! What a pathetic little attempt.

[RLBaty]

18. No trap; just a little open, honest conversation from this side of the monitor!

Too bad y'all have been unable to put up even one to requite my love and interests, but the light remains on for y'all should one or more of you decide to come out and work towards a successful completion of my simple, fundamental critical thinking exercise involving atheism.

See you there, or not:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29450

Sincerely,
Robert Baty

[trotsky]

19. Your "exercise" is the equivalent of sitting on the couch watching TV.

But good luck with your self-aggrandizement!

[RLBaty]

20. Trotsky, be the first to show your friends here how easy it is!

The light is on, the classroom awaits:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maury_and_Baty/message/29450

Come out, come out, Trotsky!

Or not!

I'll understand; really, I'll understand!

Sincerely,
Robert Baty

[JNelson6563]

21. Ok, you're done spamming.

[Katashi_itto]

22. Just passing through, saw the post about RLbaty banned elsewhere...he seems to be a died-in-the-wool

Narcissist.

Just my personal observation.

Kudos for banning him. Although I'd make it permanent, that type never changes.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

24. The pathology of these types of people

is very similar to the pathology of rapists. It's not about facts or understanding or honesty - it's about control and power.

[Curmudgeoness]

25. It appears to have been effective?

The other day, I did spend some time with that bullshit, and all I could come up with is "what the fuck is this guy talking about?"

To me, this is simple. There is no god. His dissertation was anything but simple. But maybe I am just not smart enough to keep up with that brainiac.

Effective would seem to me to mean that he had converted the atheists here at DU. Well, he may have confused this atheist, but he did not make me question my beliefs/non-beliefs.

[OriginalGeek]

28. A WILD RLBATY APPEARS!

RLBATY USES... BULLSHIT


IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

[Curmudgeoness]

34. Stop yelling at me!!!

I get it, this is full of effective bullshit.

Well, I think I get it.

[OriginalGeek]

36. lol, Pokemans might have been a little after your time

mine too but not my kids'...

[Curmudgeoness]

37. Your assumption is correct.

If I had grandkids, maybe they would have enlightened me.

[Bradical79]

27. Anyone understand what he's trying to get at?

IF (A) man was able to originate the
> idea/concept of God through the power
> of imagination, as opposed to reason
> and/or revelation,
>
> THEN (B) man did originate the
> idea/concept of God through the power
> of imagination.

Not sure what part A means. Imagination as I understand it is not necessarily in opposition of reason, which I feel makes it a bad or poorly stated premise.

As for part B, just because someone is able to have done something doesn't mean he did it. So I guess the answer to step #1 would be no, though the poor premise makes the whole thing pretty meaningless (garbage in, garbage out as they say in the computer science world).

The only difference between the major and minor premise is that the minor premise is stated as fact rather than question, but the same issue apply to the minor premise as the major one.

Honestly, didn't read the other steps after that. If the first step is a failure, there's no reason to go onto the rest.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. It seems to be a bizarre attempt to 'prove' what atheists 'believe'

It goes something like this:

"here is a suggestion:
If humans could have made up God, then humans did make up God.
I claim atheists think humans could have made up God.
I claim atheists think humans did make up God.
Therefore I claim that atheists think that 'if humans could have made up God, then humans did make up God.'"

The last step, whatever atheists think, is nonsense. You cannot work back from that kind of conclusion of an argument to prove a premise of it. It is the equivalent of:

"here is a suggestion:
if a positive number is greater than 1, then that positive number is even.
4 is greater than 1.
4 is even.
Therefore if a positive number is greater than 1, then that positive number is even."

I suspect he would then attempt to say that atheists think they have proved that all ideas of gods were made up by humans, but that atheists are mistaken in their logic, therefore - God.

[Curmudgeoness]

35. Ohhhhh. Why didn't he just say that

instead of that dissertation that we all quit reading after (at least) the minor premise.

[AlbertCat]

40. Anyone understand what he's trying to get at?

Ego.

[uriel1972]

31. He's baaaaack

This time in religion, where it belongs I guess.
His debate technique seems to be LALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU you obviously agree with me and if you say you don't you are wrong.
I let him get under my skin, but my anger is slowly dissapating.

[deucemagnet]

33. Oh my stars and fucking garters!

Classic! Thread has the potential to go down in history with the "Passion of the Christ" thread as one of the funniest ever. Trotsky nearly had me in tears!

[Warren Stupidity]

32. I suggested a while back that this person be banned from this group.

My suggestion was rejected. It was and is obvious to me that he is a) spamming the board to promote his crap, and b) a dishonest actor.

Ah never mind, he is banned. Good riddance creep-troll.

[kdmorris]

38. Elvis has left the building n/t

[EvolveOrConvolve]

39. And he left kicking and screaming...

...like a belligerent drunk being bounced from a bar.

[kdmorris]

41. ROFL... apt assessment :) n/t

[trotsky]

42. And I was so excited for the opportunity to educate the poor wayward child!

And his innocent, simplistic thoughts. Ah, the knowledge he could have gained at my knee! But 'twas not to be!