A question about when.

[F4lconF16]

It drives me nuts when someone thanks god for the health of another. It makes me angry when I think of all the medical staff and scientists who work insanely hard to save people's lives on a daily basis and who are slighted and ignored whenever someone thanks god for their hard work. It diminishes the achievements and discoveries of science and harms the idea that science is useful--after all, why bother if god will just heallus?

At the same time though, should we comment and say something? What is our responsibility as athiests?

I say this because of a number of recent threads here on DU and elsewhere that I've seen. I've been tempted to comment, but have so far held back until I figure this out. My thinking is this: a person thanks god for another's health or recovery. This is wrong, takes credit from those who deserve it, and leaves us with a decision. Do we call them out on it?

My first instinct is to say yes. We shouldn't stand by and let them spread the idea that god heals. I've been there, and it always somehow ends up hurting people when they would have been better off accepting their situation rather than trying to resolve it through faith. It also bothers me as I said in that it lessens the doctors' work and efforts Besides that, I have a tendency to argue whenever some attributes anything to god, and particularly when it's a good thing.

On the other hand, I see that person is often rejoicing jn the fact that a loved one is okay, is going to be ok. Who am I to take that relief from them? It just seems like the wrong time to say something. I wouldn't say something at a theist funeral out of respect for those grieving; why would I say anything now? (I do want to make it clear: I have respect for any human and their emotions--not their beliefs.) The other issue I come to is this: by being the dark cloud on an otherwise sunny day, I feel as though I am coming across as a poor representative of athiesm. People don't see the logic of a statement; they only see an athiest attempting to take away the happiness of a person celebrating the health of a loved one. Wouldn't it perhaps be best to just leave such statements for a better time, perhaps?

I really don't know. I haven't been able to make up my mind, and am leaning towards saying something more than not, simply because I think that by holding back I am complicit in their beliefs. What are your thoughts on this?

p.s. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. I try to make myself clear when not talking in person, and brcome a bit verbose because of it

[LostOne4Ever]

1. Im the same way

Last edited Mon Mar 10, 2014, 10:10 AM - Edit history (1)

What start out as short posts turn into mini-essays. Fortunately, im not as bad as one of my friends who turns simple ideas in multi-volume works of prose

Anyway, I think the best answer to your question lies in the principle of reciprocity. If you were the person who made the comment how would you want to be treated? Would you be accepting of someone making that criticism of what was meant to be nothing more a statement of comfort or relief?

This does not mean that you need to be quiet though, just that you should be tactiful and diplomatic in how you respond. Maybe you could say something like:

"I don't know about any god or gods, but I get the sentiment you are trying to express and I like to add to it by giving thanks to all the doctors and medical professionals who worked so hard to bring about this recovery."

By saying something like that, you acknowledge the persons benevolent intentions while at the same time expressing yourself and what you believe.

Atheism is not a "negative dark cloud," but I believe it can often appear that way to believers due to how we have a tendency to contrast ourselves with them. We just need to find our own way of expressing ourselves in our own terms. For example, I find many believers see our lack of belief as dark and moody. To them, not having meaning in life is a negative. To me, it means I get to make my own meaning which is empowering and positive.

I guess the TLDR version of what im saying is try and be considerate of the person and their feeling if all they are doing is trying to be nice, while finding a way to express your opinion in your own terms and not on theirs.

[F4lconF16]

2. I hope I didn't imply I thought Athiesm

was "a dark cloud". It's one of the greatest joys in my life

I like the line you presented. It seems to accomodate both sides, the way you say "add to" the sentiment, so that you are saying "hey, I don't agree with your choice of words and belief, but I am happy for you and the person you care for".

&quot Find) a way to express your opinion in on your own terms and not on theirs."--well said.

[LostOne4Ever]

3. Oh, no, I did not take what you said to mean that

I just kinda used your OP to get on a tangent on how it seems to me that some believers see us.

My apologies.

And with that welcome to DU and the A&A forum!

[F4lconF16]

4. Thanks!

[TxDemChem]

5. I struggle with that daily

There are some people who said all that "thank god" crap to try to get me to reconvert. For them, I really don't mind saying something about their wonderful doctors and modern-day treatments. However, for those who sincerely believe god has helped heal someone and they are not being facetious about it, I just nod (IRL) or comment online that it's great that they are better.

The intent to push the issue with me when they know I'm an atheist leads me to make a smart-ass comment back.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. There is a wonderful scene in the movie "The Tillman Story"

(the movie is about Pat Tillman, killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan, and his family, all of whom happened to be atheists, outspoken atheists.)

It was his funeral, and since Tillman was this NFL super star who volunteered for the war, politicians and top brass were all there making mawking god soaked patriotic blather eulogies. His brother Robert gets up to speak, is pissed off, inebriated, and tells John McCain and Maria Shriver and the rest of the pandering fools to fuck off:


He’s not with God, he’s fucking dead. He’s not religious. Thanks for your thoughts, but he’s fucking dead.


Keeping silent is a choice. So is speaking up.

[Curmudgeoness]

7. Well, I can't beat LostOne4Ever's advice.

Great comments there. But I do deal with it differently. I do not see atheism as something that I must defend or rely on for anything, as the Christians have to defend and rely on their god. It is no skin off my teeth if something thanks god for some good thing that happens in their life. I am not about to rain on their parade to advance atheism. It just doesn't seem necessary.

In fact, I have a friend who is very religious. When she has had some major problems in her life, one of the things that I have told her is that I hope she can find some comfort in her god. She knows that it is not my god, and that I am an atheist, so why do I care if she will feel better by leaning on her god?

I also do not believe for a minute that most of these people who thank god for good outcomes really believe that god was the one who healed them. If they did believe it, they would not go to the doctor at all---they would rely completely on god. And there are very few of those fanatics.

[Heddi]

8. You know, I'm a nurse. Worked in the ER for years

Would just tickle my fucking buttons when someone would come in with CPR in progress, or they'd go tits up while in the ER and we'd do compressions and CPR and ventillate and drugs and emergency surgery and hey! Look who's alive!? and the family would come in and be like OH THANK GOD! Thank God? I know he sure as shit wasn't taking his turn in doing 2 minutes of compressions in CPR (the longest 2 minutes of your life).

Thank god? THank the people that actually DID something to save your family. God had no part in this/

[RebelOne]

9. What irks me is when a person dies,

someone at a funeral will say that he/she is in a better place. I want to scream out, "Is 6 feet under a better place?"

[Lars39]

12. Or worse, the deceased prefers to be dead and "in heaven" instead of alive and with family.

Damn near segued from irked to stroked out over that one.

[uriel1972]

10. Very rarely would you hear...

"Thank God, for my incurable cancer!" it's the same God doing the bad stuff as well as the good stuff, as far as I can tell. It creating everything and being all powerful and all knowing and all that.

[Lordquinton]

11. It's a tough question

My first instinct would be to do as they do, but we don't have the support system to fall back on.

We can make a comment simply thanking the doctors and other care professionals or whatever applies, without calling out their bs.

It's really unfair that if we express our beliefs, like asking people to not pray for us or something when we're sick, is classified as insensitivity even when we're the ones suffering (and hearing that "i'll pray for you" can be offensive to us). It's religious privlage at it's finest.

At a funeral you should feel free to say how you feel if you too are grieving, sense theists will never shut up about "being in a better place" and all that, to you, the person is dead and gone, and if your beliefs offend them, maybe they should do some reflections about other's beliefs and how they might offend.