I went to a funeral this week that featured a sermon that I thought was totally inappropriate.

[CrispyQ]

Instead of celebrating the deceased's life, the minister gave a sermon about knowing God & that you can say you know God but if God doesn't know you then you're going to hell. There were two moments when I thought he insinuated that possibly even the deceased wasn't going to "a better place." Then he said that he was certain there were "some among us" who don't believe and that we should "look to our souls because not everyone is blessed with the number of years of X."

I would like to know if the family approved of this sermon or if they left it up to the minister's discretion. I felt it was rude to use this venue, where you know there will be people of varying beliefs and no belief, to proselytize. The whole religion thing is one of the things that makes me hate funerals.

So we skipped the reception that followed & went & had drinks.

[AtheistCrusader]

1. I'd have walked the fuck out. Right up the prime meridian of the room.

I've seen something similar, and knowing the deceased, that would not have been an appropriate eulogy type affair. (He'd killed himself, and the asshole at the podium was taking full advantage.)

Walked. Right. Out.

I simply cannot abide people taking liberties with the memory of the deceased.

All the best funerals end up in a bar. Not kidding. You did the right thing.

[CrispyQ]

2. We held my mother's memorial at her favorite restaurant/bar.

It was nice! We moved from table to table & chatted with everyone. People shared their good memories of her. My sister put out paper for people to write their favorite memory of Mom & every year on my Mom's BD she shares a few with me again, via email. I got told about a hundred times that I look just like my Mom.

[JDDavis]

4. What a great idea for a memorial gathering.

I wonder if some of my relatives have a favorite restaurant. I'd like to propose it to them.

[CrispyQ]

8. You should arrange it for yourself at the very least, if you're inclined.

It was nice. We paid for everyone's meal & a pitcher of margarita's for every table. When people left they said, "Your mother would have loved this." The restaurant gave us a good deal since she was a regular.

[JDDavis]

10. O I would be very inclined, and that's an idea for me, too!

Yes, except some of my favorite restaurants are in Paris and elsewhere a few thousand miles away.

But for me, I wouldn't mind if they chose any old bar they wanted to hold it. I won't be there!

[JDDavis]

3. Seems totally inappropriate but then again

some of those religionist folk are just so hopelessly desperate to spread their "faith" in a punishing god, they will stop at nothing, not even at the death of one of their followers.

Talk about poor judgement and bad taste.

[LostOne4Ever]

5. Sadly, almost every funeral I have even been to has been that way

[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','Infindel B',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Some push the proselytizing more than others, but they have all had that aspect. Probably a result of living in the Bible Belt.[/font]

[Rob H.]

6. A similar thing happened at my great-grandfather's funeral many years ago

He was a kind, generous man who worked hard all his life. He never had very much, but if you needed something he was always the first to step up and offer to help. He'd give you the shirt off his back even if it was the only one he had.

Did the minister (who was a distant cousin) mention any of that? Of course not. He saw it as a chance to proselytize even though my great-granddad never had much use for God or religion. That was the infuriating irony of it--that he didn't honor the man he was and who most of the people there knew him as.

[CrispyQ]

7. This:

... he didn't honor the man he was and who most of the people there knew him as.

Yes, that is it exactly.

[libodem]

9. That is inappropriate

Especially if the deceased was a nonbeliever.

I don't care for any funeral service that becomes an excuse to start preaching doctrine.

The purpose should be to celebrate the person's life and comfort the mourners.

Marking personal milestones with the community, seems to me, to be a positive reason churches exist.

Too bad the system is abused.

Maybe you could have a private ritual and say a few words aloud or write a farewell letter to satisfy your preferences.

Sorry for your loss.

[CrispyQ]

14. Thank you for your sympathy.

When I heard she wasn't doing well I wrote her a long letter with memories from when I was a kid. I was told she was thrilled to receive it & read it several times. That makes me feel so good!

[libodem]

18. There ya go!

That's what I'm talking about. You are all over it.

I worked with a nurse several years ago who had been raised in a Catholic Cult. They formed their own sect to continue giving mass in Latin. They had a school she attended. She had a multitude of unkind nun and mother stories from her childhood.

She had 5 children before she realized birth control was not a sin and moved toward a born - again lifestyle before divorcing her ex.

She graduated nursing school out of her car. She was really quite bright and artistic.

She was a single mom doing okay when I met her. She had been studying the Rosecrutians(sp) and taking tests to reach new levels. She didn't consider herself a Christian.

She died a few years ago and her ex husband must have been in charge of the services. They sucked the joy out of the room and left me cringing.

I feel your pain.

[CrispyQ]

19. Reading through this thread, it seems to be common.

Someone, minister or other, taking advantage of a captive audience to spew their ideology, instead of respecting everyone attending, who want to celebrate a life. I want a big party when I go. Drinks all around, rock-n-roll on the jukebox, dancing & maybe even a little smoke. It's Colorado, after all.

[libodem]

21. Heck yeah

That sounds like a plan!!!

[Curmudgeoness]

11. It is hard to know if the family approved this,

but I only can speak for years ago when my grandparents died. The minister did not run the sermon by the family. I don't know whether there was any discussion about what the family wanted with anyone in the family, because it was possible that did happen. What was interesting was that my grandmother and grandfather died within a year of each other, and I got to see that it was the same sermon at both funerals...indicating that it was the standard funeral sermon for that minister.

I have to agree that it is inappropriate to have a fire and brimstone sermon at a funeral, where there are many different beliefs among the people attending. But it is obvious that this minister felt that it is a great time to do conversions or something. If this was the minister of the church that the deceased attended, I would guess that this is what they would have expected at a funeral. And if the deceased was not a church goer, and the minister was brought in from some family member's church, shame on that family member.

You could have gone to the reception though, since the preaching would have been over by then....you suffered through the worst of it and got no free food.

[CrispyQ]

17. We missed the free food, but at least we had drinks!

[RussBLib]

12. perhaps we should try to get in the ministers face

...if enough people start slamming these yahoos in person, maybe the message will get through.

If nothing else, it might make you feel better.

[CrispyQ]

16. I'm guessing that like me,

lots of folks aren't sure how to go about that without offending the family. But yes, I would love to call or write that minister & ask what he thought was even remotely appropriate about his sermon.

[Promethean]

13. I have been to one funeral where the priest didn't spend the entire time proselatizing.

It was my cousin's and was incidentally done by a Catholic priest. I have been to other funerals both Catholic and other and preaching was the name of the game so we must have lucked into an actual honest theist that one time.

[CrispyQ]

15. "an actual honest theist"

Or one who at least has respect for everyone at the funeral.

[CrispyQ]

22. Oh, a call to come and be saved. That's even worse.

I felt this guy was almost on the verge of that.

I'm sorry for your experience, but your last sentence did make me smile.

[CrispyQ]

35. "Celebrations of Life"

That's what they should be.

I went to a ceremony, once, where anyone who wanted to speak about the deceased was encouraged to. It was such a wonderful event! People talked about their personal memories of the one who had passed, conversations, impressions, inspirations. Sometimes something someone would say would spur someone else & that person would also stand & add their impression of the moment.

Shared moments in time, moments that are meaningful . . . that's what funerals are all about.

[OriginalGeek]

24. My Mom's funeral was like that

But I expected it. She and my stepfather ran a vacation bible school and children's ministry. More about hell than my mom at the service (with a pretty healthy dose of sideways glances at the long-haired son from out of town) and the thing afterwards was just bizarre - a "going home" party complete with plenty of food and balloons and streamers and shit.

I can't say I cared much for the whole thing but at least it solidified in my mind I won't be going back for step-father's funeral. Might she up a few days later with a full bladder and a google map to his grave. <--Thats for a childhood full of abuse, not just mom's funeral.

[CrispyQ]

31. My sympathies on the loss of your mother.

And I'm sorry your step-father was such an asshole.

"...a full bladder & a Google map..."

That was funny. It's probably more time out of your life than he deserves, but I understand the sentiment of showing 'respects.'

[OriginalGeek]

39. Thanks :)

I suspect that no matter when that time comes, it will coincide with a powerful urge to get some authentic Texas BBQ so the trip will be worth it lol.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. You're right, it was, but...

that sort of thing is all too common.

My grandmother was driven out of the Catholic church by a priest who, when my grandfather died, explained to her in great detail how many years he would spend in purgatory for not having spent enough time in church. This is not the thing to say to the grieving widow, but those were the days when the nuns almost broke my father's fingers for writing with his left hand.

More recently, a priest was called in to say some words at the funeral of a family friend who hadn't been to church since he was a child. He admitted he didn't know much about the dear departed, but wished him well wherever he was headed in the afterlife and attempted to share the family's grief. That, to me, was a much better way of handling it.

I can understand why a cleric would want to use a funeral as a convenient place to harvest souls, but it is dead wrong. It's about the departed and family, friends, associates, and the living community dealing with a member leaving it. It's not about boosting church membership.

[CrispyQ]

32. I respect clerics who understand that funerals are not a place to 'harvest souls.'

Love that turn of phrase.

I never understood purgatory.


purgatory (ˈpɜːɡətərɪ; -trɪ
n
1. (Theology) RC Church a state or place in which the souls of those who have died in a state of grace are believed to undergo a limited amount of suffering to expiate their venial sins and become purified of the remaining effects of mortal sin
2. a place or condition of suffering or torment, esp one that is temporary


What is a state of grace & how does one die in such a state?

[frogmarch]

26. At the funeral of a young relative of mine who

had committed suicide, the Lutheran minister – who’d been warned by the family to not insinuate that the dead boy would go to hell – did just that. When the minister started ranting on about it, the boy’s immediate family members all stood up with fists clenched at their sides and glared threateningly at the minister. He stammered for a bit and then proceeded to talk about the mythical being he called Our Loving God.

The boy had taken his own life because he desperately missed his older sister who had killed herself not long before. She was a lesbian who’d been brainwashed by her religious friends into believing she’d burn in hell if she didn’t go straight. On the eve of her wedding to a man, she shot herself in the head.

Religion sucks.

[FiveGoodMen]

28. Whoa!

That's just fucking awful.

Sorry anyone had to go through that.

[frogmarch]

29. Me too.

The family has had more than their share of tragedies. A year after the boy died, his older brother was killed in a car accident. Soon after that, the mother, whose name was Margaret, became very ill with what turned out to be terminal cancer. As she lay in the hospital dying, the hospital chaplain, a woman pastor, asked the family if it would be all right if she prayed quietly by the bedside as Margaret lay sleeping. The family said they supposed it would be all right, and as the chaplain murmured a prayer, Margaret opened an eye and glared at her, then looked at the family and said, “What bullshit. Will someone please slap her?” Then she turned on her side and fell into a coma, from which she never awoke. I dearly loved Margaret and I’m glad she got the last word.

[CrispyQ]

33. Religion sucks.

Yes, it does. I am sorry for all the pain your family has endured because of it.

[FiveGoodMen]

27. Most of my family's funerals have been like that.

Not all, but most.

[Gore1FL]

30. I was at a funeral for a Jewish man who was married to a Christian woman.

The Christian pastor suggested that the deceased might make it into heaven because he was exposed to Christian beliefs during his marriage...

[CrispyQ]

34. Whew! Huge sigh of relief here!

I was exposed to Christian beliefs when I was young, so I'm glad I can continue down the path of atheism & still enter the Kingdom of God.

Oh, will it require some time in Purgatory?