There is definitely bigotry against Muslims going on here on DU.

[trotsky]

However, it's not being displayed by the people outraged by these murders.

It's being displayed by the people who think that by drawing an offensive cartoon or writing a blistering satirical piece, one should reasonably expect to be violently attacked and possibly murdered. (By Muslims, in this case.)

They are the ones judging followers of a religion to be so violent, to be so primitive, to react in such a way that it should be REASONABLE to expect it. For simply offending them!

[Fix The Stupid]

1. Yep. Right on the money.

I made this observation before and it was widely ignored....

[trotsky]

2. I am sorry I missed it! Great minds and all... n/t

[Mbrow]

3. You have to wonder

Whats in peoples minds, when you have a small percentage of phycos who commit these acts and a lager percentage who use this tragically to further what ever sick agenda they are pushing. I've known a lot of Muslins from my work in the sand box and the vast majority are just people like us, one official I talked to said, " We like Americas a lot, just not your government" kind of eye opener.

[trotsky]

4. A key problem is the unquestioned respect given to religious belief.

Any honest person has to acknowledge that there is pretty vile stuff contained in the literature of the Abrahamic religions. It's right in the book. Eye for an eye? Yup. Kill the apostate? Uh huh. And so on.

Now we can argue all day long about whether those bad parts should be taken seriously - AND THAT'S THE POINT. Some people do take them seriously. It's how the small percentage of psychos find justification for their acts. And when religious moderates dismiss the bad parts of the texts but still tell us that OTHER parts are good and need to be respected and never criticized, well, it perpetuates the notion that religious beliefs are special. You can't tell people they are wrong. And so on.

And so the privilege continues. And the psychos are empowered.

[Curmudgeoness]

5. I admit it.

I have a real problem with any fundamentalists who take their religion so seriously that they are willing to kill people who disagree with them. I am a bigot. Of course, it isn't all about Islam though. And it is beginning to be more than the fundamentalists who are a problem. Those who do not condemn these people, and marginalize them and excommunicate them from the religion are contributing to the madness.

I am also appalled by the excuses I have seen blaming the victims for the sacrilege instead of blaming the murderers for murder. None of us should expect to die for speaking an opinion.

[trotsky]

6. "None of us should expect to die for speaking an opinion."

[Warren Stupidity]

7. If this were my board and there were people here equating

cartoons and murder, those people would be ppr'd tout de suite. That is one vile sentiment, and no way does the utterer of crap like that belong here.

[Exultant Democracy]

8. Extremist kill, I know abortion doctors that wear flak jackets on their way to work.

I also do not recognize Islam Christianity and Judaism as different religions, same god, same cosmology and the same Profits for the most part.

The three sects of the Abrahamic Religion all do an impressive job turning out fanatics. It also usually goes unsaid, but for the majority of the interaction between Christians and Islam it was the Christians that were blood soaked, while the Muslims practiced considerable restraint in their actions toward subjugated Christians and Jews.

Christians heads explode when you try to explain to them that Jesus is the Muslim messiah too, they just also recognize Mohammad as the last and greatest profit of god.

[swilton]

9. The point that is lost is that

Islamophobia has been normalized as a way of attacking people(s) who are weaker and marginalized.....

I don't find the same free speech standard and caricatures applies to religious groups with power in the West (Jews and Christians).

[onager]

10. Well, I'm bigoted against this particular Muslim.

Freedom of expression does not extend to insulting the Prophets of Allah, whatever your views on the events in Paris today! #ParisShooting

Tweeted by radical British imam Anjem Choudary.

Choudary doesn't even have the usual weak excuse that he emigrated from some theocratic shit-hole and doesn't know any better.

Choudary was born, raised and educated in Britain. So he knows exactly what he's doing - trying to realize the idiotic pipe dream that some day, the whole world will bow down to his barbaric religious ideas.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anjem_Choudary

[trotsky]

12. Absolutely.

Fuck that noise, no one gets to set limits on speech.

[defacto7]

11. I'm bigoted against stupid.

That covers quite a variety of beliefs as well intellectual laziness in all it's forms.

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. These forums are rife with assholes using murder to attack a magazine they don't understand...

...written in a language they don't understand...
...satirizing a sociopolitical system they don't understand.

In fact, they seem not to understand satire at all.

There's no purpose to all those outrage, save to satisfy the bristling egos of those who measure their self-worth against their strict adherence to bumpersticker morality.

[Eko]

14. Havent seen anyone on DU do this.

Links?

[trotsky]

15. Start with this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026062556

The "fun" starts with the first reply.

[Eko]

16. Reply #152

Last edited Tue Jan 13, 2015, 10:56 PM - Edit history (1)

"Indeed, all were innocent of any acts deserving of murder.

All twelve were innocent of acts deserving murder and mayhem."

[trotsky]

18. Gee, why did you omit this part:

"In some ways, all were innocent."

[Eko]

21. because that is factually correct

about anyone.

[Eko]

17. Couldnt find where he said

"one should reasonably expect to be violently attacked and possibly murdered." in any form.

[LiberalAndProud]

19. Were you hear to read the "but" threads?

"People shouldn't be murdered, but they were sort of asking for it," is a rough paraphrase of many posts and articles. Maybe you read it differently, but that's my takeaway.

[Eko]

22. No, I didnt see those.

If that is the case then he is wrong.

[LiberalAndProud]

23. It hasn't been a singular he.

The number of people who think the victims provoked their attackers is not small, even here on DU.

[trotsky]

20. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218176134#post54

The more vile stuff on some other threads, he self-deleted. I'm sorry I can't link to that for you. Others here can vouch for what was said.

[kdmorris]

25. Please see my post #24 n/t

[kdmorris]

24. Haven't been paying much attention then, huh?

They meant to be outrageous and I think the editor fully expected to be martyred for his cause.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218176134#post2

Not that I think that this will help you any. I can see that, even with links to some of the more egregious posters, you pick out the one or two posters from the same thread that we are not talking about.

Links have been provided, but I get the feeling that you were not really serious about wanting them...

Plain and simple... no holds barred... this is the response to this tragedy:


NO ONE SHOULD EXPECT, IN ANY SANE WORLD, THAT THE CONSEQUENCE OF PUBLISHING A CARTOON IS DEATH, ALONG WITH THE DEATH OF 15 OTHERS. NO ONE...EVER...

[Eko]

27. I think that the

"They meant to be outrageous and I think the editor fully expected to be martyred for his cause." still does not equate to "one should reasonably expect to be violently attacked and possibly murdered." They are two separate things entirely. I disagree with the guy but nowhere that I have found indicates he said anything of the sort. Others have said he did so in deleted posts, and I said if so he was wrong. I asked for evidence of the claim and no one has provided it yet. There have been 3 links now, I went to all of them. I dont think that anyone should be killed for insulting anyone.

[kdmorris]

32. You are entitled to your opinion

I do not share it.

Edited to add: just what do you think martyred means? Given an award? praised?

Number two is probably closest...but they all mean death. Expect to be martyred....expect to be put to death. You sure are reaching hard to make trotsky look like a liar. Why is that?

noun
1.
a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.
2.
a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause:
a martyr to the cause of social justice.
3.
a person who undergoes severe or constant suffering:
a martyr to severe headaches.
4.
a person who seeks sympathy or attention by feigning or exaggerating pain, deprivation, etc.

[Eko]

33. See reply 28.

[kdmorris]

34. I think you are getting a wee bit confused there

#26 is saying the same thing that I am...Expecting someone to be offended by your cartoons does not mean that they should have expected someone to kill them. (and this is the opposite of what the poster I linked to was saying.... she said that they DID expect to be killed for being offensive)

[Eko]

35. mistyped, meant 28.

Lets simplify these sentences, I am using John to represent those killed and punched for a simple action.
"They meant to be outrageous and I think the editor fully expected to be martyred for his cause."= cbayer saying "John meant to be outrageous and I think fully expected to get punched"

"one should reasonably expect to be violently attacked and possibly murdered."= cbayer saying "John should expect to be punched for his actions"

Those two sentences mean entirely different things and cbayer did not say the second one.

[Eko]

37. I did use the wrong

comment number twice, was looking in right corner but I was referring to the same person they were and used their comments. My bad.

[Eko]

38. Also,

there is a world of difference between asking for evidence of a claim and trying to make someone look like a liar. That would involve what words and sentences actually mean but some people who have a narrative to push would see no difference.

[Eko]

36. Couldnt find where I

pick out the one or two posters from the same thread that you guys are not talking about. Feel free to share.

[arcane1]

26. Exactly! Expecting offense is nothing AT ALL like expecting violence.

[Eko]

28. No,

"They meant to be outrageous and I think the editor fully expected to be martyred for his cause." Is saying what cbayer thinks the editor believed, "one should reasonably expect to be violently attacked and possibly murdered." is a claim that cbayer thinks they should expect to be attacked and no one has provided that evidence. Totally different.

[arcane1]

29. I don't follow you.

And I'm not claiming to agree with cbayer either. I was responding to the OP.

[Eko]

30. Sorry.

[arcane1]

31. No worries!