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PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 06:52 PM Jan 2015

History offers countless instances of religion enforcing its inane orthodoxy with violence.

Three Muslim men didn't like the way the authors, journalists, and cartoonists thought, so they murdered them. Twelve lives ended. Families shattered. Children parentless. And Bill Donohue of the Catholic League says, "Muslims are right to be angry." Donohue sided with the murderers, condemning only their method but saying that we should not "tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction" and that it was "too bad" Charlie's editor "didn't understand the role he played in his" own death. Isn't it just like religion to blame the victim?

We saw this 10 years ago when the Danish papers published benign—bland might be a better word—cartoons about Islam's pedophiliac founder. As Hitchens was fond of pointing out, though Islamic mobs were beating, burning, "and issuing death threats against civilians," the archbishop of Canterbury and the pope condemned the cartoons, not the overreaction.

We saw this 25 years ago when the Ayatollah Khomeini—to borrow from Hitchens again—"publicly offered money, in his own name, to suborn the murder of a novelist who was a citizen of another country." Once again, the Vatican and the archbishop of Canterbury condemned the speaker, Salman Rushdie, not the violent criminals.

History offers countless instances of religion enforcing its inane orthodoxy with violence.

- See more at: http://ffrf.org/news/blog/item/22171-charlie-hebdo-bill-donahue-and-the-freedom-of-thought#.dpuf

Yes, these people are extremists and #notallmuslims are violent, but I am really sick of people trying to disassociate this event with Islam and blaming the journalists for their deaths.

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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History offers countless instances of religion enforcing its inane orthodoxy with violence. (Original Post) PeaceNikki Jan 2015 OP
It needs to be recognized that it isn't Islam as much as Angry Young Men Warpy Jan 2015 #1
Yes, but religion gives them a great excuse for their actions. Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #5
Yes it does Gelliebeans Jan 2015 #7
It needs to be recognized that it isn't Islam AlbertCat Jan 2015 #10
From the Vatican Doughboy's article... onager Jan 2015 #2
The Abrahamic Religion is based on killing whoever god tells you to even family. Exultant Democracy Jan 2015 #3
Yes, they are all death cults. defacto7 Jan 2015 #13
So very fucked up..n/t haikugal Jan 2015 #4
Vagina Mangers, Bill Donahue and Jon Stewart. onager Jan 2015 #6
Gotta say onager Gelliebeans Jan 2015 #8
Thanks, but I probably stole them... onager Jan 2015 #9
Cheers Gelliebeans Jan 2015 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author Gelliebeans Jan 2015 #18
One way of looking at it Cartoonist Jan 2015 #11
A discussion in GD made me go refind this quote. The thread was locked, but I'll drop it here. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #12
And why was one of their dead a Muslim? defacto7 Jan 2015 #14
I guess they would say Cartoonist Jan 2015 #15
And that my friend defacto7 Jan 2015 #16

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
1. It needs to be recognized that it isn't Islam as much as Angry Young Men
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:35 PM
Jan 2015

who are looking for excuses to act out their anger. Here, they'd be well represented on 4chan, PUA and MRA groups online and Christian Identity and Army of God in real life, lobbing insults at women and incompetently created IEDs at abortion clinics.

Even the military doesn't want these guys.

Angry Young Men exist in all cultures around the planet and religion of all types gives them a lofty reason for acting out and killing other people for not living up to their ridiculously high standard of piety, which means their potential victims are everybody who isn't an Angry Young Man.

And yes, there are also Angry Young Women, but they're generally relegated to the kitchen and nursery when they hook up with Angry Young Men.

Yesterday's killers are shining examples of the type. The problem is who and what they are. Their excuse is Islam. It could have been anything.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
5. Yes, but religion gives them a great excuse for their actions.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:28 PM
Jan 2015

Not only that, but it gives many people a reason to excuse them, because they were provoked. If not for religion, this would just be a terrorist act of murder and there would be very few people supporting them or blaming the victims. That is what is so difficult for me to watch.

Gelliebeans

(5,043 posts)
7. Yes it does
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 09:28 PM
Jan 2015

just add deity and voila instant fake outrage to excuse thug like behavior...to the point of being sadistic.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
10. It needs to be recognized that it isn't Islam
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 11:37 PM
Jan 2015

It is Islam.... because there are millions of non Islamic angry young men who don't kill in the name of Islam. Without Islam, this crime never would have happened. Would some OTHER crime involving angry young men happen? Yes. But THIS crime happened because of Islam.... which is also probably the reason these youg men are angry to begin with.

onager

(9,356 posts)
2. From the Vatican Doughboy's article...
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 07:48 PM
Jan 2015
Killing in response to insult, no matter how gross, must be unequivocally condemned. That is why what happened in Paris cannot be tolerated. But neither should we tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction.

Those who work at this newspaper have a long and disgusting record of going way beyond the mere lampooning of public figures, and this is especially true of their depictions of religious figures. For example, they have shown nuns masturbating and popes wearing condoms. They have also shown Muhammad in pornographic poses.


So the real problem is the intolerance that provoked the killings.

He does have a point about depictions of "popes wearing condoms." Popes wouldn't do that. Rhythm method only, anything else is a sin.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
3. The Abrahamic Religion is based on killing whoever god tells you to even family.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:08 PM
Jan 2015

Abraham wouldn't have hesitated to put those editors on a rock and cutting out their hearts if god told him too. That is what makes him a holy paragon and profit to Judaism Christianity and Islam.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
13. Yes, they are all death cults.
Fri Jan 9, 2015, 05:02 AM
Jan 2015

But there are native cultures of south and central America that did the same for similar reasons without western or middle eastern influence. They just didn't have the publicity at the time.

onager

(9,356 posts)
6. Vagina Mangers, Bill Donahue and Jon Stewart.
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:59 PM
Jan 2015

While searching on the Collected Dumbasseries of Bill Donahue, I came across this item from May 2012. And LMAO...

(Note to SPIES: if you find this offensive, I'd like to heartily apologize in advance. No, actually I wouldn't. Just fuck off.)

Bill Donohue is So Mad at The Daily Show

May 22, 2012 by Jessica Bluemke

...Stewart wondered if there was anything women could do to elicit the outrage over their bodily rights that Fox News correspondents typically reserve for, say, attacks on Christmas.

“Perhaps women could protect their reproductive organs from unwanted medical intrusions with Vagina Mangers.” Behind him, as he spoke, appeared an image of a woman with her legs spread and a manger scene covering her …mistletoe? (Nutcracker? Holiest of Holes? Virgin Mary? Secret Santa? Pick your favorite vagina euphemism. Or come up with your own! Fun for the whole family!)

Anyway, to the surprise of no one, Bill Donohue didn’t think this was funny. At all. In fact he called it “hate speech.”


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/05/22/bill-donohue-is-so-mad-at-the-daily-show/#ixzz3OHRQ0ibD

Gelliebeans

(5,043 posts)
8. Gotta say onager
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 09:35 PM
Jan 2015

I'm loving the new words I.E. Assholery, dumbasserie...etc you make me snort when I laugh. (I'm late probably, getting the memo, and you have been using these words forever) just wanted say it made me laugh.

onager

(9,356 posts)
9. Thanks, but I probably stole them...
Thu Jan 8, 2015, 11:08 PM
Jan 2015

...after seeing them elsewhere on the Internet. Or maybe not - sometimes I just make up stuff like that because I like to fool around with words. In the past, the Internet Church of the Perpetually Offended have chastised me for doing that. Which is about the last thing that would make me stop doing it.

Sometimes it's very satisfying to wade thru a 4000-word post with references to Aquinas, Augustine etc. plus the really deep intellectual philosophers like Billy Graham. And respond with a simple semi-grammatical statement like: "What a bunch of tiresome fuckwittery."





Response to onager (Reply #9)

Cartoonist

(7,316 posts)
11. One way of looking at it
Fri Jan 9, 2015, 12:00 AM
Jan 2015

By killing these people, the murderers have proven either that there is no God, or that their God is powerless. If their god was offended, why didn't he strike them down with a lightning bolt? Why did he need masked men to do his dirty work?

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
12. A discussion in GD made me go refind this quote. The thread was locked, but I'll drop it here.
Fri Jan 9, 2015, 12:04 AM
Jan 2015

“You’ve gotta respect everyone’s beliefs.” No, you don’t. That’s what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone’s beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: “That is fucking stupid. Are you kidding me?” I acknowledge that you believe that, that’s great, but I’m not going to respect it. I have an uncle that believes he saw Sasquatch. We do not believe him, nor do we respect him!”
-Patton Oswalt

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
14. And why was one of their dead a Muslim?
Fri Jan 9, 2015, 05:12 AM
Jan 2015

Why did their deity not protect a Muslim with the name "Mohamed" from death by followers of the same religion? And isn't killing a Muslim with the name Mohamed actually a bit ironic since the killers were protesting the desecration of the name and image of Mohamed? In essence they are guilty of desecrating the prophet Mohamed by killing Mohamed.

Crazy illogical and stupid, drunk on insanity.

Cartoonist

(7,316 posts)
15. I guess they would say
Fri Jan 9, 2015, 08:02 PM
Jan 2015

They would claim that he wasn't a TRUE Muslim. After all, he was working for an infidel.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
16. And that my friend
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 02:57 AM
Jan 2015

is the circular logic of all people who have to make up stuff to cover up for the impotence of their beliefs. Nothing like the trite "no better Scotsman" argument to make a believer feel all cozy, safe, and vastly superior to the rest of us... and his own.

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