2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSen. Sanders voted for a dangerously flawed tea party bill Tuesday
...supporters can post all they want about the need to 'audit' the Federal Reserve, but supporting Rand Paul's bill was the absolute wrong way to go about it.
The issue isn't whether the Fed should be audited, the issue Tuesday was whether to support a Rand Paul, tea party bill that he's been parading around for his conservative allies.
from Salon:
Like his father, Paul is a monetary-policy paranoiac, the sort of person who goes on about the debasement of the dollar and flirts with the idea of linking our currency to a commodity. (Though not necessarily gold. Because, you know, the man's not that crazy.) He has referred to the Fed as an an enormous creature, a creature that creates its own money, as if he were describing Cthulhu with a printing press. He has fretted about Weimar-like hyperinflation just around the corner, even though prices are rising at less than 2 percent per year. He has delivered a factually challenged rant suggesting the Fed would be considered insolvent if we judged it like a normal bank (it wouldnt be).*
While Paul acknowledges that the Fed is, in fact, already auditedits books are verified by Deloitte & Touche, and Congress can and does request separate audits by the Government Accountability Officehe says that the scrutiny isnt enough, that those are a bunch of fake audits. Sure, you can go online and see every asset on the Feds balance sheet, including its serial tracking number. But, Paul says, that doesnt tell readers who they bought them from or whether they were bought at fair market price or whether they were bought at a haircut and whether or not there were any conflicts of interests in the buying and selling.
That argument might be more convincing if Pauls bill were focused just on conflicts of interest. But its not. In large part, its geared toward letting the Government Accountability Office audit the Feds monetary policy decision-making, one of the few areas of the central banks business its not allowed to assess. In plainer language, it gives the GAO the power to produce a lengthy report criticizing the central banks handling of interest rates, which might theoretically put political pressure on it to change its policy direction. In a small but meaningful way, it would chip away at the central banks independence.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/02/24/the_absurdity_of_rand_paul_s_quest_to_audit_the_fed_if_he_succeeds_it_will.html
Paul Krugman:
Right now, the most obvious manifestation of money madness is Senator Rand Pauls Audit the Fed campaign. Mr. Paul likes to warn that the Feds efforts to bolster the economy may lead to hyperinflation; he loves talking about the wheelbarrows of cash that people carted around in Weimar Germany. But hes been saying that since 2009, and it keeps not happening. So now he has a new line: The Fed is an overleveraged bank, just as Lehman Brothers was, and could experience a disastrous collapse of confidence any day now.
This story is wrong on so many levels that reporters are having a hard time keeping up, but lets simply note that the Feds liabilities consist of cash, and those who hold that cash have the option of converting it into, well, cash. No, the Fed cant fall victim to a bank run. But is Mr. Paul being ostracized for his views? Not at all...
read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/opinion/paul-krugman-money-makes-crazy.html?_r=0
Tell me why you believe voting for Rand Paul's tea party bill was correct; not an argument for holding the Fed accountable, but an argument in favor of Paul's bill.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)THAT is reason enough, but the policy itself should be questioned also.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)into more headlines.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...who is now using Sanders' vote as proof of the legitimacy of his bill.
The 'headlines' only serve as a wedge against our party, who voted correctly to reject this right-wing power grab.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)concentrate more on the issues.
Monetary policy is a national conversation worth having.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...is a deflection from Sanders vote for Rand Paul's tea party bill.
It's not mere 'labels' but an actual description of what Sanders voted for. This bill of his has been a darling of his conservative allies for a good while now. It's not real reform, but a blatant attempt to undermine and politicize the Fed's independence in setting monetary policy.
The 'conversation' isn't about some nebulous support for monetary reform. This conversation is about the bill Sanders voted for YESTERDAY. I do understand the reluctance for supporters to explain why their Democratic candidate has sidled up to this notorious tea party demagogue's dangerous legislation.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Like almost all Republicans, they seem to enjoy nuanced conversations about immigration, climate change etc. It's in their DNA.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Strange how much the far right and far left have in common.
Thank you.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)on anything what so ever simply because they're republican?
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...although, I'll likely never support any proposed legislation from tea party lackeys.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)In a Thursday letter to the House Financial Services Committee, economists like Dean Baker and Rob Johnson, author Naomi Klein, and such labor luminaries as the AFL-CIO's Richard Trumka and the SEIU's Andy Stern, urged committee members to shoot down an amendment by Rep. Mel Watt (D-N.C.) that would essentially allow the Fed to keep the lights off while it throws money around.
Watt's amendment, which could see a House vote today, is a direct attack against a separate measure by Reps. Ron Paul (R-Texas) and Alan Grayson (D-Fla.). That measure, known as the "Audit the Fed" bill, has been gaining momentum in Congress for months.
"A vote for the Watt amendment is a vote for more secret bailouts," the letter says.
The letter notes that during the financial crisis of the past two years, the Fed's role has shifted from simply setting monetary policy via interest rates to rapidly acquiring "a wide variety of private assets and extend[ing] massive secret bailouts to major financial institutions."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/19/audit-the-fed-effort-wins_n_363410.html
Do get back to us after you have spoken to the following:
Dean Baker, Economist, Center for Economic Policy Research
William Black, Professor of Economics and Law
Tyler Durden, Blogger, Zero Hedge
Thomas Ferguson, Professor of Political Science, University of Massachusetts, Boston
James K. Galbraith, Economist, University of Texas
Leo Gerard, President, United Steelworkers Union
Jane Hamsher, Blogger, Firedoglake.com
Rob Johnson, Economist
Naomi Klein, Author, No Logo and The Shock Doctrine
Yves Smith, Blogger, Naked Capitalism
Andrew Stern, President, SEIU
Richard Trumka, President, AFL-CIO
L. Randall Wray, Professor of Economics, Center for Full Employment and Price Stability
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...get back to me when you want to discuss the Paul tea party bill.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)They might have some answers for you.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)It has been around since 2009.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)you know, call him out for voting to audit the Fed. I look forward to that....
I really do
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...which would effectively allow Congress to manipulate monetary policy.
The 'audit the fed' title of Rand Paul's bill was a sham. That's why Democrats like Elizabeth Warren overwhelmingly rejected the legislation.
from the WSJ:
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.), a member of the Banking Committee and an outspoken critic of the Feds oversight of big banks, said she does not support Mr. Pauls proposed legislation, which she said could have dangerous implications for monetary policy.
I strongly support and continue to press for greater congressional oversight of the Feds regulatory and supervisory responsibilities, and I believe the Feds balance sheet should be regularly audited which the law already requires, Ms. Warren said in an emailed statement. But I oppose the current version of this bill because it promotes congressional meddling in the Feds monetary policy decisions, which risks politicizing those decisions and may have dangerous implications for financial stability and the health of the global economy.
read: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/02/10/sen-warren-opposes-audit-the-fed-bill/
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)I look forward to his response.
Anytime Republicans are calling for transparency on anything the first question that should be asked is what is their angle.
Warren clearly illustrates their angle here and as is the case with all things GOP, it's not truthiness they are after.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)...it would go the other way. This is just a party protecting itself. The last thing you want is a fishing expedition. I understand the vote.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Just as there are many flavors of Democrats (as a visit to DU immediately confoirms) not all Republicans are the same with the same agenda.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)And he stood with Rand Paul and most of he other Republicans?
WTF?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)How did that work out?
They spit in his face.
They'll treat a self-described socialist even worse.
It's pretty much impossible to work with GOPers.
Like Cali_D said, Obama tried to work with repukes and it got him nowhere. I am really unsure how people think this is going to change.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)and so might be libertarian conservatives.
"which might theoretically put political pressure on it to change its policy direction. In a small but meaningful way, it would chip away at the central banks independence. "
Perhaps there should at least be more accountability of the Fed. Not totally remove their independence, but perhaps public scrutiny and ability to challenge their decisions is not a bad thing. The fed is not an all-knowing deity that can do no wrong.
Even tghe smug Alan Greenspan admitted in later years that he sorta fucked up in some ways.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...without allowing Congress to politicize and manipulate monetary policy.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I suspect if he'd supported a weaker or establishment version, a lot of his same critics would say "See? He voted for compromise. He's just a politician like they all are."
Something like this has endless variations and complexities. So much so that forests get lost for the trees. Often, that's a deliberate strategy -- to make things so complicated that people's eyes glaze over and bad things get slipped under the transom.
Perhaps Bernie should not have supported this bill and instead supported another. I'm not going to second guess him.
But I do know he's been engaged in this issue for a long time, and he knows he's under the spotlight at the moment,. So I'm going to trust his judgement on it...That's not passing the buck -- it's what we all do with politicians all the time, if we trust their overall motives and goals and bulk of their record.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...this isn't about another bill. It's about Rand Paul's pernicious legislation.
'Not going to second-guess him.'
That's understandable for a supporter in this campaign. At some point, though, supporters will need to ask themselves who these compromised votes actually benefit.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)After paying fairly close attention to Bernie for about 20 years, I'm going to trust him. and his motives and comprehension of the issues..
.And even if I disagree with him on some specifics of some issues,, I am going to trust my own judgement that on the vast majority of his stances and actions, he is honest and reflects my own views on what is needed.at this point in history.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)...their independence needs to be reined in some.
I damned sure wasn't thrilled about who ended up holding the bag after the meltdown.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)That didn't have the Watt amendment did they?
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Here's why Sanders said he voted for the bill:
"Too much of the Feds business is conducted in secret, known only to the bankers on its various boards and committees. In 2010, I inserted an amendment in Dodd-Frank to audit the emergency lending by the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis. As a result of this audit, we learned that an institution that was created to serve all Americans had been hijacked by the very bankers it regulates.
"We must expand on that first review of the Feds activities. Requiring the Government Accountability Office to conduct a full and independent audit of the Fed each and every year, would be an important step towards making the Federal Reserve a more democratic institution that is responsive to the needs of ordinary Americans rather than the billionaires on Wall Street.
Now you tell me why auditing the Fed is a bad idea.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...but it's a deflection from the substance of Paul's bill, plain and simple.
It's a pointed omission, failing to address the provisions progressive Democrats and others have said they are opposed to in the Paul bill.
No Democrat has argued against auditing the Fed. In fact, there are several proposals for more Fed accountability. What the Paul tea party bill does, though, is allow Congress to pressure and manipulate the Fed to bend to policy changes for the benefit of individual legislators' interests.
I'm not surprised supporters want to deflect from all that, and pretend that anyone who objects to enabling tea party legislation designed to undermine the Federal Reserve's independence in setting monetary policy is against reform.
'Hey, look over here...pretty colored balloons!'
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)to sail through Congress?
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Isn't any bill that creates transparency in the Fed going to do that? What is it about Paul's bill that generates more problems with the independence of the Fed?
bigtree
(85,996 posts)Sen. Paul's measure would have authorized the GAO to review more information as part of an audit, but opponents said that would give lawmakers too much information and power to exercise oversight.
Well see many members of Congress pushing the Fed to side with the bondholders and Wall Street on combating inflation rather than siding with main street and small businesses and workers in dealing with unemployment, said Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, who spoke against the bill.
from the WSJ:
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.), a member of the Banking Committee and an outspoken critic of the Feds oversight of big banks, said she does not support Mr. Pauls proposed legislation, which she said could have dangerous implications for monetary policy.
I strongly support and continue to press for greater congressional oversight of the Feds regulatory and supervisory responsibilities, and I believe the Feds balance sheet should be regularly audited which the law already requires, Ms. Warren said in an emailed statement. But I oppose the current version of this bill because it promotes congressional meddling in the Feds monetary policy decisions, which risks politicizing those decisions and may have dangerous implications for financial stability and the health of the global economy.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)the attacks on his gun votes, the "data breach", and healthcare overhaul are not taking effect; so, instead of considering a bill by a republican, Democrats should shit on them as they do us. His explanations are never enough because he has yet to attribute his reasons to 9/11, an explanation that appears to satisfy his distractors. a la Wall Street contributions
LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts)feeling the Bern indeed. The bern of you all screwing yourselves into the ground.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)...screwed-up notion of party loyalty, when the party a sick and diseased patient. So I suppose my thought is, who cares. At least he's out there, you know, telling the truth.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That's what the implication is and why the op changed the title of the article. Bernie's a traitor who votes with the tea party and if we don't hang him out to dry we're just as guilty.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)All of the dishonesty really shouldn't surprise me--dishonesty and lies seem to be all the rage in some circles of late.
Anyway, I heard that Sanders wants to do away with Obamacare, so I'm off to get my second-place candidate, Bobby Jindal, to un-suspend his campaign and bring the Bobmentum.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Not only is he a closet tea partier, Bernie's trying to take away our health care too!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...Bernie was able to single out all of the good stuff in the legislation and just vote for that...right?
Bernie Sanders voted for tea party sponsored legislation which sought to politicize and undermine the independence of the Federal Reserve in setting monetary policy. Paul has been very clear about the intent of his bill. His conservative allies have been cheering it on. It's well-known what Tea Party Paul intended with this bill.
Yesterday, Sen. Sanders sidled right up alongside the prevaricating right-winger, obscuring the pernicious, dangerous provisions in the bill and posturing like the sham represented real reform.
That aid and comfort for this tea party creep deserves characterization, but what I'm thinking of might be better left unwritten here.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Go ahead, keep digging, we're almost there!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...he voted for a shit pie, a sham which supporters want to argue is actually a noble effort at reform.
Sanders is either naive; oblivious to the phoniness of the Paul bill; or simply doesn't care about allowing Congress to politicize and manipulate fed monetary policy.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yep it worked, I'm convinced!
Bernie is dead to me!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...stating that Bernie Sanders voted for TEA PARTY CONSERVATIVE PAUL'S SHAM OF A BILL Tuesday isn't 'hyperbole, it's FACT.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You're converting us in droves, keep it up!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...but like it or not, this conversation is just that, a discussion on a political message board.
Now, you may well want to divert attention back to the horse race, but this complaint is about your candidate making a questionable vote, in the middle of our Democratic primary, for a sham bill sponsored by Tea Party Paul and promoted among his right-wing allies. Almost everyone already knew this bill was a sham; promising reform, but auguring interference by Congress into the Fed's monetary policy decisions.
All of the silliness and ridicule you can manage in this thread won't change the facts of this bill Sanders voted for; not the sponsor; the intent; or the contents.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But when you use the guilt by association fallacy don't be shocked by the responses you get.
You're better than that, or at least I thought you were.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...the last refuge, I suppose.
Who would have believed anyone predicting Sanders would vote for a Rand Paul sham of a bill in the middle of our Democratic primary?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And endlessly repeating your opinion doesn't magically make it correct.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...but I understand your need to try.
I work nights and I'm a little sleepy, thinking of napping for a while. Maybe you can gain some ground while I sleep.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)...in voting for Rand Paul's sham bill, legislation which received overwhelming republican support and overwhelming Democratic opposition..
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)...I'm done with you. I'll be talking past you from this point on.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Maybe next time you should skip the stale talking points, people respond better when you don't use debunked memes to attack their candidate.
Bernie doesn't support the tea party.
Better luck next time.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...smh. There's absolutely zero room for anyone defending this vote to accuse others of being less than progressive. This is a goddamn betrayal. Gloss over it all you want. This vote is an eye-opener.
What other tea party initiatives are attractive to Sen. Sanders? Or, is this the only one?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Omg, STOP IT! You're killing me here!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...it's been a hard slog for you on this thread, working to bury me in your petty personalization.
Must suck to have your candidate vote with one of the biggest demagogues in Congress, a tea party conservative. I understand your need to deflect, and I appreciate all of your kicks on this thread.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Trust me, big tree, this thread has kept me rolling on the floor for over an hour.
Bernie is a closet TEA PARTY SYMPATHIZER and we just can't handle the TRUTHINESS!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...actually, it looks like a standard, no-holds-barred defense, complete with deflection, ridicule, and denial. A strident, but ineffective effort to deny the reality of your candidate voting for tea party sponsored legislation in the middle of a Democratic primary. I would never have predicted this, and I am absolutely floored. Of all the idiotic votes...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And I'm interested in that bridge in Brooklyn you're selling too.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...actually more than I can count.
That was a poor deflection.
I'm not disappointed in Sanders, I'm pissed at him. Something Sanders supporters here sometimes have a hard time grasping: There is a world of progressive advocacy and care outside of the Sanders campaign.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And then you insulted everyone who disagreed with you, your tactics betray you.
I applauded your positive threads but you squandered any good will you generated.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...I've been very clear.
The initial rebuttals to this news were inferences that critics of Sanders' vote were against a fed audit. But you want me to care that criticizing and characterizing the source and intent of this legislation portrays Sanders as a tea party sympathizer? At some point, he's responsible for that, not those pointing correctly to his support for this obvious sham of a bill from a tea party conservative.
Get it? Sanders is responsible for his own actions. No one forced him to sidle up to Paul and vote for his phoney bill. No amount of ridicule or personalization can detract from that fact.
Sanders voted for this tea party bill and wants us to accept that his intentions were honorable. That may well be, but what he voted for wasn't reform. It was a sham. Whatever 'tactics' you believe I'm using, his vote was wrong, and the senator he's partnered with on this issue and that man's father are both the worst of demagogues. Sad that anyone would defend this.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Too little too late, I tuned you out as soon as you implied Bernie supported the tea party and attacked us for disagreeing.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...you're still tripping over my rhetorical question - hoping, I would guess, to twist that into a good deflection from Sanders voting for tea party legislation sponsored by one of the biggest demagogues in congress, Rand Paul.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And now I'm bored with this so I'm done with you.
Ciao!
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)That's what the Fourth of July is all about!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Oh, right. The top 0.01%. Can't mess with that!
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...and allowing Congress to manipulate monetary policy decisions. Both houses of Congress in republican control right now. It would be a disaster to allow them to intimidate the Fed into bending their way on monetary policy. It makes absolutely no sense to blur that prospect, and pretend there's something positive to be gained by allowing republicans to insert their influence into those important decisions.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)I trust Congress.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)eom
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...consider the source of the sham bill.
That's not too much to expect from a majority of progressive supporters here...one would think.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Article I, Section 8:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
. . . . .etc.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei
Then there is this in the Constitution:
14th Amendment:
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv
The exact responsibility and liability that the US government has for the FED and its transactions is kind of a mystery to most people.
Is Congress responsible for the strength of the dollar? The debts of our government are owed in dollars? How transparent should the Fed be?
Perhaps an audit, maybe not the precise kind of audit foreseen in this bill, but some kind of review process will actually strengthen the Fed. I don't know, but there is some ambiguity about the extent to which our dollar and our economy is subject to supervision by Congress.
This is a discussion that can't hurt anyone in my view. The Fed is very important to our economy.
I'm not defending or criticizing the bill (haven't seen the text) but I know there is a lot of confusion especially among conservatives about just what the Fed does. A lot of the criticism is sheer paranoia and misinformation. On the other hand, the Fed doesn't bother to educate Americans about just what it does and who it answers to. What with this age of information and the internet, I would like to know more about it. Maybe this bill would help spread some information.
The last audit of the bail-out transactions was very revealing.
To what extent are taxpayers on the line to support or back up the Fed's transactions, loans, etc.? Americans need to know this. We need more transparency and education on this. Without reading the bill, I support efforts to get more transparency and education on economics and financial transactions at all levels for Americans. We are a financially illiterate people and it costs us a lot on various levels, not just financial.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...I always take tea party legislation at face value. Details? Schmetails.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If you do, please provide a link to it so that we can read it ourselves.
Bernie will no doubt explain his thinking on this.
I have a neighbor who is obsessed about the Fed. A lot of people are. I don't know that much about it really.
I do know that Congress is authorized under the Constitution to regulate our currency. I think that the Fed was established by an act of Congress.
I am assuming my reading of the Constitution is correct. I'm not an expert on this, so I can't be sure.
The Federal Reserve Act (ch. 6, 38 Stat. 251, enacted December 23, 1913, 12 U.S.C. ch. 3) is an Act of Congress that created and established the Federal Reserve System, the central banking system of the United States, and granted it the legal authority to issue Federal Reserve Notes (now commonly known as the U.S. Dollar) and Federal Reserve Bank Notes as legal tender. The Act was signed into law by President Woodrow Wilson.
. . . .
12 USC § 225a
On November 16, 1977, the Federal Reserve Act was amended to require the Board and the FOMC "to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates." This same amendment stated that the member governor proposed by the President to be Chairman would have a four-year term as Chairman and would be subject to confirmation by the Senate (member governors per se each have 14 year terms, with a specific term ending every two years). The Chairman was also required to appear before Congress at semi-annual hearings to report on the conduct of monetary policy, on economic development, and on the prospects for the future. The Federal Reserve Act has been amended by some 200 subsequent laws of Congress. It continues to be one of the principal banking laws of the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act
Lots more information at the link.
The Federal Reserve answers to Congress. It's not the other way around. How do you think that this amendment changes the relationship between Congress and the Fed if at all?
And was it you defending Chelsea's lies in another thread(s)?
sinking lower and lower...
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...and argued against characterizing campaign representations of opposition policy proposals as 'lies.'
Do you think it enhances your own credibility to distort what I actually said in that thread?
More deflection.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I'll also point out that Hillary Clinton is NEVER going to be the President. You'd better hope Sanders pulls out the nomination.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...it doesn't belong in this thread.
FFS, I actually AGREED with Sanders on that issue. Not ONE statement from his campaign referring to Chelsea's comments as 'lies.' Seems you have just as much of an issue with him as you do with my own view. Neither your candidate, or I, feel a need to call the Clinton's liars.
As for Clinton, you'll have to save that nonsense for someone actually supporting her in this primary campaign. Kinda of makes your point moot.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)You'd better hope Sanders wins the nomination, because if Clinton does, we're fucked, all of us.
And no, I don't have an issue with Sanders, no matter how it may "seem" to you. Here's an inside secret: being a Sanders supporter does not require a loyalty oath. It does not require supporting all of Sanders' positions. And it does not require some sort of Soviet devotion to the way Sanders runs his campaign. That was a weird thing for you to say.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...and hold true to their progressive values.
kath
(10,565 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)...and then ridicule off of your own imagination?
I agreed with Sanders' criticism of Chelsea. He didn't call anyone a 'liar'. I agree with that approach. If I'm supporting Clinton in that, then so is Sanders.
Your responses/ accusations in this thread have been stupefyingly obtuse and just plain false.
riversedge
(70,204 posts)mmonk
(52,589 posts)eom
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)bigtree
(85,996 posts)...you're as naive or as obtuse as your candidate.
I expected different.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)...it was a typical republican sham; pretending to promote reform, but actually a stalking horse for their efforts to undermine the Federal Reserve and intimidate them into following their lead on monetary policy.
It's not worth defending.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Do you understand how the Federal Reserve is funded?
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)What went wrong at the Fed? The chief executives of some of the largest banks in America are allowed to serve on its boards. During the Wall Street crisis of 2007, Jamie Dimon, the chief executive and chairman of JPMorgan Chase, served on the New York Feds board of directors while his bank received more than $390 billion in financial assistance from the Fed. Next year, four of the 12 presidents at the regional Federal Reserve Banks will be former executives from one firm: Goldman Sachs.
These are clear conflicts of interest, the kind that would not be allowed at other agencies. We would not tolerate the head of Exxon Mobil running the Environmental Protection Agency. We dont allow the Federal Communications Commission to be dominated by Verizon executives. And we should not allow big bank executives to serve on the boards of the main agency in charge of regulating financial institutions.
blue neen
(12,319 posts)There are still many of us who are undecided. This is an issue worth checking out.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Are people allowed to support that?