I think HRC just told us she would VETO a single-payer bill if Bernie got it through Congress.

[Ken Burch]

That's the only interpretation you can really take from her anti-Medicare-for-all screed Sunday night.

Good to know.

[darkangel218]

1. Oh man..

I hope you are wrong. Although I got the same vibe

[onecaliberal]

2. She is only up for doing what her insurance company donors say.

That's why Obama didn't fight for it. Big pharma and insurance companies gave him big money. These corporations do not give millions to these people out of the goodness of their hearts. They are "buying" favor. They know the deal.

[daleanime]

4. +1

[newfie11]

47. Agree. Nt

[Rybak187]

56. Follow the money that will tell what politicians will do and say.

[ViseGrip]

61. Exactly, and some of those speeches she gave for BIG buck$ were to HCA's who don't want it.

[darkangel218]

3. Good thing she will never be POTUS though

[draa]

26. Right On darkangel. Never is correct.

[Agschmid]

53. Seems a bit defeatist to me...

Not shocked.

[draa]

60. meh

Who gives a fuck.

[darkangel218]

62. Lol!!

[asuhornets]

57. That's where you are wrong.

Madame President Clinton. I can't wait.

[darkangel218]

59. Bwahahahahahahaha!!!

Yah right!

[underthematrix]

5. Knowing and understanding the political landscape makes posts

like these seem illogical.

[Hoyt]

6. She'd sign it, as would Obama, IF it got through Congress. I think Sanders tried that

and it failed, just like it did in Vermont m

[arcane1]

7. Well, she did warn us that Single Payer would rob us of our private insurance.

She never did explain why that's a bad thing, but it shows whose side she is on: the insurance industry.

[darkangel218]

9. Despicable, isn't it??

And she's considered the "front runner" by the DNC!

[wordpix]

39. For that, amen

Goodbye to their fantasy "allowed charges" that mean nothing. They charged one conventional chemo round at $23,000/round, but apparently it's just a number they picked out of the air. NIH says true cost is $3600/round. These POS' need to answer some q's before a congressional committee full of former prosecutors. keep talking, Hilary, you're digging the hole deeper.

[merrily]

8. Yep. Let's hope she never gets veto power.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/march/hillary_clinton_on_s.php

[Cali_Democrat]

10. How come Bernie couldn't get it through Congress in 2009?

When we had Dem majorities in both the Senate and the House?

[darkangel218]

12. Did Obama and the DNC endorse it?

[Renew Deal]

50. It's always someone else's fault

[darkangel218]

55. So the answer is no.

[Art_from_Ark]

14. Because Max Freakin' Baucus wouldn't even consider it in his committee

And the man with the mandate and the bully pulpit at the time didn't even try for it.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. ...because it only had 8 to 10 votes max according to Bernie:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance

-------

So tell me again how he would get single payer through Congress and to the President's desk when we have even fewer Dems in Congress now than we had in 2009?

[Art_from_Ark]

21. You realize that there is not just a presidential election this year, right?

The Congress that we have now will not be the same Congress that convenes in January 2017. There are 24 Republican Senators up for re-election this year, and of course all Republican members of the House are also up for re-election. It is normal for the winner of a presidential election to have coattails for his party, with the recent glaring exception of Bill Clinton, who ended up with a net loss of seats. One can assume that the enthusiasm being shown for Bernie, though, can result in a coattail effect for Democrats.

[Cali_Democrat]

27. But according to the OP

...Bernie will still be in Congress and Hillary will be prez.

How does Bernie get single payer through Congress as a member of Congress and to Hillary's desk in 2017 when he couldn't do it in 2009/2010?

Read the OP again.

[Ken Burch]

34. I was actually referring to the claim by HRC apologists that if Bernie single-payer through,

HRC would sign.

It clearly sounded from her remarks on Sunday that she wasn't supportive of the idea of even trying for single-payer, which suggests strongly that she would do nothing to help get a single-payer bill through, and could not be trusted to sign it if it did pass.

[redstateblues]

52. There are no down ballot Socialists

[Art_from_Ark]

63. Bernie is running as a DEMOCRAT, fer cryin' out loud!

How hard is it to understand that?

Bernie represents the Democratic Party of John and Robert Kennedy, not the shell of its former self that it has become.

[cui bono]

15. Hm... let's see... Obama didn't allow single-payer a seat at the table while he was having secret

meetings with the health insurance industry. And then his CoS told liberals to STFU and called us fucking retards. And then Obama didn't even try for the public option before giving in to the GOP.

Could that have something to do with it?

.

[Cali_Democrat]

18. Bzzzzzzt

Because it only had 8 to 10 votes max according to Bernie.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance

-------

So tell me again how he would get single payer through Congress and to the President's desk when we have even fewer Dems in Congress now than we had in 2009?

[cui bono]

20. He will fight for it. Obama never even gave it a thought.

Why do you want to allow the GOP to determine what policy our candidates should be for? Why are you letting the GOP win without even an attempt at accomplishing our goals? Why are you letting the GOP lessen make you try for less than what Dems want?

.

[Progressive dog]

22. This is what Bernie said-in 2010

Sanders said it was still possible for single-payer to come to the U.S. eventually -- but he said the road will not begin in Washington. If a state like California or Vermont ever instituted a single-payer system on its own, Sanders said, it would eventually lead to national adoption of universal coverage. "

So according to Bernie, all that was necessary was to get Vermont to actually implement single payer. He's had six years to do it that way and failed. So now he's going to do it the hard way,through a Republican Senate. Single payer, according to Bernie, was dead before it started in a majority Democratic Senate.

[cui bono]

23. He's a US Senator, and before that a US Representative. He's not part of the state govt.

That's also not the only reason he's running for president. He wants to fix the economic disparity and corporate control over our country.

Would you rather elect someone who doesn't want single-payer?

.

[Progressive dog]

29. I want to elect someone who doesn't pretend to be able

to achieve single payer, when he has already admitted that he couldn't come close. He is the one who suggested Vermont or California for single payer. Apparently, he believed he had influence in his home state.

[JonLeibowitz]

46. His home state is California? Otherwise your point is lost on me. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

24. You seem lost

The OP is about Bernie being in Congress in 2017 and Hillary being president and potentially vetoing single payer.

The OP says Bernie will get it through Congress as a member of Congress.

He was a member of Congress in 2009.

Will Bernie fight for it more in 2017 than he did in 2009?

[cui bono]

25. LOL. I guess I just don't accept that premise. Bernie needs to be president because Hillary doesn't

want single-payer.

There's not much you can do when POTUS doesn't care about single-payer and heads the committee with someone who won't listen to single-payer advocates. Single-payer didn't die under Obama because of Bernie.

.

[draa]

31. So, we didn't have a super majority in 2008?

That's what happens in wave elections. Not sure why you don't remember 2008 though.

[Renew Deal]

51. Nope

They knew they didn't have the votes. Baucus, Lieberman, and possibly Nelson of NE were against it.

[Ken Burch]

16. Lack of a veto-proof majority

And Obama refused to give any backing to Bernie's bill.

What did get passed was just barely worth anything, and has only been watered-down slowly since.

Clearly, all Obama(and more importantly, Rahm) really cared about was the pre-existing conditions thing...which was nice, but which was also the tiniest and most trivial part of the bill...the part that didn't really change anything that mattered. He let everything transformative be carved out.

We never needed to settle for the tiny, pitiful remnant that finally got through.

[Cali_Democrat]

19. Bzzzzzzzt.

Because it was dead before it arrived in the Senate according to Bernie.

It only had 8 to 10 votes max according to Bernie.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance

-------

So tell me again how he would get single payer through Congress and to the President's desk when we have even fewer Dems in Congress now than we had in 2009?

[retrowire]

37. so you don't care to try? nt

[Karma13612]

64. You mean the majority with some of the Dems being Blue dogs??? Eom

[Half-Century Man]

11. Perhaps not.

If she sees it is popular, she may claim it as her own.
Ya know, she waved her magic leadership wand and made it happen.

[cui bono]

13. Former SOS don't have veto power. Only POTUS does. n/t

[BainsBane]

28. Clearly you were not paying attention

She said that Obamacare is the result of decades of work by the Democratic Party. She said the solution--the only feasible possibility--is to strengthen it. She also pointed out that the congress just passed a bill to overturn Obamacare. They had a veto proof majority in the congress. How in fuck's sake does that translate to you as congress passing single payer and her threatening to veto it?

The key difference is Clinton deals with reality, and Sanders tells you what you want to hear. Sanders himself said Single payer was a non-starter in 2009 when we hade Democratic majorities in both houses. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance
Now that the GOP controls both, suddenly all we need is him in office and the constitution somehow disappears and he magically makes it materialize? Pull the other one. It's one thing to swallow empty political promises and a whole other thing to blame a candidate because she has the gall to consider the constitutional role of congress. As much as some might wish otherwise, we do not live in a dictatorship. Presidential power is limited, and the next one will be limited by the same constitution that restrains Obama.

Not only that, you make up shit insisting Clinton threatened to veto a bill that is never going to get through congress in the first place. If Clinton is really so awful, why do you have to invent stuff? The fact is she isn't, so we see these kinds of fabrications drummed up as excuses to oppose her. I think if opposition to Clinton were actually based on policy, you would engage with her stated policies. The transcripts of the debate are available. You can read them. But that doesn't interest you. Instead, you want to blame her for not indulging another candidate's pandering, for not feeding a campaign promise that, if you are honest with yourself, you have to know is unrealistic.

Then you have another thread blaming Clinton for not promoting single payer in 1993, as though universal healthcare matters less than a specific form of paying for it, and as though she were responsible for its failure. What did you do to promote single payer or any other healthcare program back then? Anything? And you aren't pissed off that healthcare failed but that it wasn't single payer. The GOP stopped it. You think they would have been more receptive to single payer? Does covering the uninsured even matter, or is it all about having it your way?

We have a GOP House and Senate. There is not going to be redistricting between now and the presidential election. When you get the Tea Party to sign on to Single Payer, then you can worry about some hypothetical presidential veto, because until then there WiLL NOT be any single payer bill passed. No one should have to tell you something so basic.

The irony here is that you all complain about Obama not fulfilling promises, and then demand even more unrealistic and unfeasible promises that even the guy making them knows he can't deliver on. And you wonder why politicians are all talk and no action.

[retrowire]

38. i stopped reading this after

you claimed that we expect it to happen just because we elect Bernie and the constitution disappears.

there you go, thinking all of us supporters are absent minded idealists.

you really think, that we think he'll just snap his fingers and it'll happen?

clearly you haven't absorbed Bernie's message of political revolution.

the revolution is political! this means we get involved and vote. he ALWAYS says that he can't do it alone. he encourages us all to participate in the democracy that people have fought and died for and VOTE.

he always says it, if everybody votes, democrats win. every time. the political revolution is us voting the senate back to the left, it's replacing the Republicans with Democrats and SANE Republicans. it's taking our government back.

neither candidate will be able to work with this fucking congress. Bernie's revolution would aid Hillary as well if she wins. (though the morality of his revolution may not be enthused enough to go forth for her)

but my point is this, it can all work, if we all vote. no Bernie won't snap his fucking fingers and you need to stop denigrating our mission by believing we're all that stupid. difference is, we understand that Bernie's plan is a long term thing while you eat all the bullshit telling you it's just a dream. wake up.

[kristopher]

44. You mean "RomneyCARE" is the result of decades of work by the Democratic Party?

Yeah. That struck me as a damned odd claim for her to make.

[BainsBane]

32. Transcript:

On the off chance you are interested in what she actually said.

CLINTON: Well, Andrea, I am absolutely committed to universal health care. I have worked on this for a long time, people may remember that I took on the health insurance industry back in the '90s, and I didn't quit until we got the children's health insurance program that ensures eight million kids.

And I certainly respect Senator Sanders' intentions, but when you're talking about health care, the details really matter. And therefore, we have been raising questions about the nine bills that he introduced over 20 years, as to how they would work and what would be the impact on people's health care?

He didn't like that, his campaign didn't like it either. And tonight, he's come out with a new health care plan. And again, we need to get into the details. But here's what I believe, the Democratic Party and the United States worked since Harry Truman to get the Affordable Care Act passed.

We finally have a path to universal health care. We have accomplished so much already. I do not to want see the Republicans repeal it, and I don't to want see us start over again with a contentious debate. I want us to defend and build on the Affordable Care Act and improve it. . . .
CLINTON: You know, I have to say I'm not sure whether we're talking about the plan you just introduced tonight, or we're talking about the plan you introduced nine times in the Congress. But the fact is, we have the Affordable Care Act. That is one of the greatest accomplishments of President Obama, of the Democratic Party, and of our country.

(APPLAUSE)

And we have already seen 19 million Americans get insurance. We have seen the end of pre-existing conditions keeping people from getting insurance.

(APPLAUSE)

We have seen women no longer paying more for our insurance than men. And we have seen young people, up to the age of 26, being able to stay on their parent's policy.

SANDERS: But -- what if we have...

CLINTON: Now, there are things we can do to improve it, but to tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate, I think is the wrong direction. . . .

CLINTON: And that's exactly what we are able to do based on the foundation of the Affordable Care Act -- what Governor O'Malley just said is one of the models that we will be looking at to make sure we do get costs down, we do limit a lot of the unnecessary costs that we still have in the system.

But, with all due respect, to start over again with a whole new debate is something that I think would set us back. The Republicans just voted last week to repeal the Affordable Care Act, and thank goodness, President Obama vetoed it and saved Obamacare for the American people."

And Bernie, when asked about single payer in his home state:

SANDERS: Let me just say that you might want to ask the governor of the state of Vermont why he could not do it. I'm not the governor. I'm the senator from the state of Vermont.

He can't talk about the problems it faced in VT, but we're supposed to trust he can get it passed and implement it nationally? It is inconceivable to me that anyone who cares about actual policy as opposed to rhetoric would find that convincing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/17/the-4th-democratic-debate-transcript-annotated-who-said-what-and-what-it-meant/

[Progressive dog]

33. So if Hillary had lied about being able to pass single payer,

you wouldn't believe she was honest. Damned if she does damned if she doesn't. That's the only interpretation that can be taken from your OP.

[Jack Rabbit]

35. That you for your interest in the open position, Mrs. Clinton

Please don't call us. We'll call you.

[Orrex]

36. Actually, she said she would drive to everyone's house and kill their first-born sons

Hell, since we're making stuff up anyway, why not go for broke?

[Gman]

40. It really matters not one iota

Because it will not get through congress.

So it's not even an issue to begin with.

[Ken Burch]

41. As everyone in Washington said about meaningful civil rights legislation

Last edited Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:06 PM - Edit history (1)

before the Freedom Riders went out and proved them all wrong.

As Bob Marley sang:

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds.

[Gman]

48. If people were willing to take to the streets

In an order of magnitude equal to or greater than the civil rights movement I could heartily agree with you. But they're not. It's too inconvenient and messy.

Grassroots can change anything. But the grassroots have got to want it bad enough to do something about it. And it doesn't appear there is any will to put the words about health into actions. Until I see such action as we had in the 60's for civil rights, I'll remain the pragmatist. That way I don't have hopes that can be dashed.

[gordyfl]

42. Health Insurance Companies & Bill Clinton

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/bill-clinton-keynote-speaker-health-insurance-lobby-bash-nashville

[SoapBox]

43. She is the No-We-Can't candidate!

[silenttigersong]

45. I think its simple

Sec.Clinton wants to control the citizenry,Sen.Sanders wants to engage and enlighten the citizenry.

[Renew Deal]

49. Making stuff up again?

[Agschmid]

54. Yup.

[Skwmom]

58. She wants those paid workers paid by the insurance companies out working on her behalf.

Or have you forgotten about all those pacs?