Major Snag for Sander's Proposal

[kennetha]

Bernie's ideas are now getting a lot of scrutiny. Let's see how they hold up, shall we?


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/major-snag-sanders-single-payer-plan-health-care-immigrants

[Dawson Leery]

1. kick

[thereismore]

2. Camp Hillary joins Trump in xenophobia. nt

[randys1]

5. Not sure what this has to do with Hillary, so I will ignore that part for now, even though

i am sick to death of the bashing of our candidates.

Anyway, this is what is being observed

There is virtually no hope that Congress would revisit the reform bill that passed the Senate in 2013. And there are few chances that the Republican-controlled Congress would take up the issue aside from a handful of piecemeal deals that focus on border security and enforcement. A number of immigration advocates have all but given up on seeing comprehensive immigration reform realized until years from now.

So this is not about NOT wanting to do it, but how it is politically impossible.

That is how it reads to me.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. There is virtually no hope that any democratic legislation

is getting through congress. So this is a massively stupid argument, or a completely dishonest one. Not that those are exclusive choices. It is why Obama is exploring the limits if executive action.

[randys1]

15. Someone has to start the conversation somewhere. I dont believe anything

will be done about anything regardless of which of our candidates is prez until gerrymandering is fixed, which it wont be.

Not anytime soon.

But I would rather have a candidate who SAYS what is needed even if he or she cant actually do it.

[draa]

3. Who cares.

Even if she wins the nomination she'll lose the general. Too many pissed off people for anyone to vote for her now.

[Stuckinthebush]

4. Only on DU

She is going to be just fine in the General.

[draa]

9. Sure, you keep believing that.

Tell me, what people are going to vote for the lies and smears and outright horseshit we see from her. You are nuts. We're aren't the Republicans here. Our party, at least the ones that have values and ethics, would rather burn it down that give it to someone with the character of GWB

The problem with scorched earth tactics is there's no one left to help after you're through. Good god, it would seem many people don't understand that.

[Stuckinthebush]

17. Scorched earth?

I swear this must be the first primary many DUers have seen. This is tame.

"Lies and smears!" Buck up...it's politics.

Let me tell you what will happen. This is based in many years of experience, observation, and common sense.

Clinton rolls through March unimpeded. She racks up delegates through wins in southern states, CO, TX, and VA. All solidly in her pocket.

Sanders campaign realizes the impossibility and by April is letting workers go. He will continue to campaign because his message is so important to the Dems.

By June it is utterly clear that Clinton has won. Her delegate count is staggering at this point. Media outlets will have quit paying lip service to a race a month earlier and will begin talking about Clinton as the Dem nominee

By July DU will be in full hair on fire mode with bannings, vitriol, anger, and all cap posts. It'll be ugly.

Right before the convention Sanders will publicly make up with Clinton and they will make soothing "we are all in this together" noises.

After the convention, Sanders will make numerous pitches to his supporters to bury the hatchet and support Clinton. He will campaign for her. Hell, he might even be tapped as the VP.

November rolls around and it is a race between Clinton and Trump (or Cruz - same thing). Clinton already has a huge lead in the GE electoral college votes and wins the GE in an electoral landslide.

She goes on to spend 8 years in the White House with four of those (at least) with an angry, belligerent GOP congress.

I'm not a Clinton or Sanders die hard supporter. I'm a pragmatist. I tell you now that this is what will happen.

If it doesn't, I expect your ridicule and I will take it stoically!

[draa]

24. Care to show me where Obama lied about Clinton in 2008.

Repeatedly. Like a Republican.

Politics is one thing but you don't smear and slander your own party in a primary. And please, this isn't my first donkey ride.

[Stuckinthebush]

26. Tell me about these massive smears and lies

that are unlike any you've ever seen in your donkey ride?

[draa]

28. How about Red Baiting.

That's all I need to say. Anything more would be redundant.

[Stuckinthebush]

30. Ah

Red baiting.

Like I said, buck up DU.

[draa]

33. Like I said. Screw you Democratic Party.

You keep defending the indefensible. I'm now done here. eom

[Stuckinthebush]

34. Like I said

It's all part of politics. If Sanders can't handle it now he won't handle it later.

He's fine. It's not his first rodeo. He'll dish out some doozies on her.

[riversedge]

31. Well now--in my circle--a whole lot of folks will be voting for Hillary and perhaps you best get

ready for Julian

[Stuckinthebush]

35. Same in mine

Do you think it'll be Castro? What about Bernie? Would she need to pull him over to appease his voters?

[riversedge]

38. She might

have to give him some position of influence. But I think the VP position is too close. Beside a white man from a while small small state in the NE has nothing to offer a winning ticket. I do think it will be Castro--but that is my gut talking

[randys1]

8. I pray to god you are wrong, that there are not millions of Democrats or alleged liberals

who will allow a rightwing fascist to appoint 4 SC justices.

If so, we are more than fucked, we are truly done.

[draa]

14. Then you should think the next time you start smearing Democrats with bullshit.

We protected Clinton against Republicans for years. The latest being Benghazi, which anyone could see was bullshit. But that mattered ZERO to her supporters when they began their attack. Not at all. Strange huh?

We protect her from lies and all of you folks lie about Sanders. Fuck that. And fuck everything about this party. After 3 decades I am appalled at what this shit show you call Democrats has become.

[randys1]

16. Show one WORD of mine ANYWHERE on this forum where i came EVEN CLOSE

to smearing either.

Please

[draa]

22. I don't know about you randy and from what I've seen you're correct.

But there's many, many people on here who keep pushing the same lies over and over. The boards are full of OP's like that. And there is no sense in it. Especially if you need those people later.

We can deal in Facts or we can become what we hate.

[randys1]

23. I dont know which candidate you support, but both groups of supporters are getting out of hand.

I am on the record saying who started it and who is doing the most damage.

But it is getting worse on the pro Hillary side now, alleging nonsense against Bernie.

If we arent careful, President Trump or Cruz will make George W Bush look like a decent liberal pretty soon.

[draa]

27. I support Sanders. I make no bones about that.

But I'm also a Democrat and what we see from our party today is Nixon level bullshit. The Red baiting is possible the worst. That from a party of free thinking progressives. Pathetic.

[randys1]

32. Just saw this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280100198

and I couldnt be more disappointed.

[draa]

37. Yeah, and that's pathetic.

What they are doing is driving people away from both Clinton and the Party. It's a damn shame that winning is all that matters to those people.

Seriously, how could any of her supporters go along with that. Or anyone that might still be on the fence. smh

[Bjorn Against]

6. Oh noes, Bernie might allow brown skinned people to see a doctor!

Donald Trump would approve of this attack on Bernie.

[guillaumeb]

7. The major obstacle to single payer is that the insurance companies

that contribute so much to many politicians would lose a massive revenue source. Given that the US ranks 37 in health outcomes and every single payer country ranks higher, the benefits of single payer are obvious.

Sanders is proposing to fundamentally change healthcare rather than continue the incremental tinkering in service to corporate profitability that is the essence of the Affordable Care Act.

[cali]

10. I'm not looking for.every detail. I am looking for a candidate that isn't corrupt

Hillary is corrupt.

[litlbilly]

13. My sentiments exactly cali

[Stuckinthebush]

19. Hyperbolic

Come on. She's not "corrupt". You just don't like her (and that's ok).

Simmer down, DU!

[catnhatnh]

41. If she's not corrupt, then she's very lucky

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511038494

Info on Hillary's earl;y investments...



In a Fall 1994 paper for the Journal of Economics and Finance, economists from the University of North Florida and Auburn University investigated the odds of gaining a hundred-fold return in the cattle futures market during the period in question. Using a model that was stated to give the hypothetical investor the benefit of the doubt, they concluded that the odds of such a return happening were at best 1 in 31 trillion.

[Trajan]

11. Me? ... I'm looking for people who want and consider the best for all families

And can discern which candidate would provide the best possible policies that will help them survive a harsh world ...

I can see you lack the consideration AND the ability to discern ... We are the workers, NOT the bosses ...

Byebye ...

[MeNMyVolt]

18. His "plan" is nothing but BS, designed for LIVs.

Or those who fancy themselves to be HIVs, but will swallow anything he puts out.

[Live and Learn]

20. Immigrants are people too! Bernie understands that. Sorry some here don't. nt

[Ron Green]

21. You know, if I'm eating out at a restaurant, I want

the people who are preparing my food to have good health care. How about you?

[OnyxCollie]

29. Or, at the very least,

be paid $15 an hour to afford to use their federally-mandated, for-profit, health insurance plan.

[left-of-center2012]

25. Clintonistas are scared

It shows in their posts.

[Maedhros]

36. There is one true statement in the article:

“It’s going to take a political revolution to pass single-payer for all Americans,” Gunnels admitted.

Sanders would agree.

My counter to Gunnels is "Then it's about time we start it!" Defeatism will get us nowhere, and Hillary supporters are preaching defeatism: we can't fight the Republicans, we can't reign in the military, we can't have health care, we can't hold Wall Street accountable.

We can't, we can't, we can't.

Well, we can't until we actually try. I'm voting in favor of trying.

[Z_California]

39. "Sanders might as well be asking for a purple unicorn, too."

What a bunch of cynical, dog whistling horseshit from MSNBC.

It's called a "vision" MSNBC. He's offering an end that we can all get behind and work toward. You may not be familiar with this concept because no other candidate offers a vision.

Universal healthcare and free college tuition aren't purple unicorns. Ask someone who lives in another country about that.

He's not promising to snap his fingers and make it so. He's calling for the people to back him up and make it possible to break ground on this vision.

As for the immigrant dog whistling in this editorial all I can say is that I'm disgusted. The political establishment is disgusting. MSNBC is disgusting for publishing this. Hopefully the candidate they are backing doesn't run with the "free healthcare for illegals" angle of this tripe, wouldn't be anything like our abuela.

[HassleCat]

40. The xenophobic objection

The Donald would be proud.