2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSenator Jeanne Shaheen: Sanders Couldn’t Have Faced the Benghazi Committee Like Hillary Did
by Josh Feldman | 8:10 pm, January 22ndSenator Jeanne Shaheen took a peculiar swipe at Hillary Clintons rivals at a Clinton campaign rally earlier today. And it involves Benghazi.
Shaheen fired up the crowd as she talked about how well Clinton did at the 11-hour Benghazi hearing a few months ago. She asked, Is there anybody here who thinks that anybody else in this race, Republican or Democrat, could have done what Hillary did?
The audience shouted, NO!
Shaheen cried, Not Donald Trump not Ted Cruz and not Bernie Sanders!
Sanders has avoided talking about Benghazi on the campaign trail, though back in November he started saying there are valid questions about Clintons emails.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dem-senator-sanders-couldnt-have-faced-the-benghazi-committee-like-hillary-did/
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)earthside
(6,960 posts)"What difference at this point, what difference does it make?"
John Poet
(2,510 posts)ut oh. I smell another meme coming on..
daleanime
(17,796 posts)nice fantasy life you've got that. Keep running with that. Have a lovely evening.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Jean Red Baiting Shaheen is a joke now.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)is a fantasy. If it makes you happy, have at it.
TheBlackAdder
(28,194 posts).
Even the best data centers require teams of IT staff and multiple server layers to protect back-end systems.
This server was wide open, a gift for those who sought it, managed by one IT guy.
.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)The reason Bernie could not face a panel like Benghazi is that he does not have the scandals to justify it.
Sanders has a long political career and he has no scandals.
Hillary is scandal Queen.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,194 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)I have always liked Shaheen.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Ready, aim, fire?
How stupid is Jeanne Shaheen?
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)Sanders has criticized Hillary on regime change so I doubt he would make the decision that would lead into this made-up debacle.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)He was ALL for regime change and happily voted for it.
Dretownblues
(253 posts)That refused to grant President Clinton the use of military force, and was mix of humanitarian aid and opposition funding.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)"declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government."
That one. The regime change one. The one Bush added in his 2002 AUMF Against Iraq - verbatim. That one.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Thank you very much for a little injection of sanity into this matter.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)connected to them that isn't clueless? Get set for more benghazi shit thanks to her.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)You seem to have forgotten that those committees were Republican-run partisan political witch hunts. You don't have to be a Hillary fan to recognize that the only reason she was interrogated over and over and over was pure politics, nothing else. And you can bet that if Bernie Sanders were in a similar position, he would have been dragged in front of those same committees and raked over the coals, regardless how perfectly he had performed is job.
Let's not lose sight of the obvious here.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)One of the biggest problems is they lacked funds for security. I think Sanders would work harder to make our diplomats secure especially if he had gotten several emails on a dangerous situation.
So no Bernie would definitely not have faced a Benghazi hearing the same way Hillary did.
Of course it might be that this wasn't preventable even with a top notch security force and measures in place. But, still the hearings would have been different so he would have to handle them in a different way.
swilton
(5,069 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The gift of "freedom"?
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)the ongoing risks to our personnel to prevail just setting the stage for the disaster that in the end took place. Neglect, poor judgement leading to unnecessary risk based on the SOS's need to secure political points at the risk to embassy personnel. Bernie would have been personally engaged and decisive well before the elements came together for the final catastrophe.
This fiasco did not occur overnight but rather was the end result of a deteriorating political and security environment that was not adequately addressed by the person at the top of the decision chain... Hillary Clinton.
Hillary likes to talk about being a leader but for someone who invariably places her political needs above those of the nation and our representatives she most often fails to effectively and objectively evaluate risk thereby resulting in inappropriate decision making.
In summary, there would more likely than been NO Benghazi to discuss, because it would have been handled in a timely and effective fashion had Bernie Sanders been in the position of Secretary of State. Moreover, the whole Libya thing (warmongering) by HRC would not have been undertaken by Sanders.
Again, Judgement is the key. Bernie has it while Hillary has demonstrated that she clearly does not.
840high
(17,196 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)could not?
You really sound like you're caught up in some kind of Bernie Sanders fantasy cult - totally divorced from reality.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)But funny thing, I don't recall him ever suggesting this at the time - or since.
You folks are a trip. You truly believe there's nothing Bernie can't do, even when it's obvious he couldn't even come close.
As I said, you all sound like you're caught up in a cult.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)earthside
(6,960 posts)Are the Clinton surrogates all taking stupid pills since the race in Iowa has tighten-up?
Stupid rhetoric like that leads one to deduce that Clinton, Inc. really must be in some sort of panic.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)I mean, does anyone have a conscience anymore? Any standards or ethics? It's really disconcerting.
Liberal Jesus Freak
(1,451 posts)That's the difference
IllinoisBrenel
(51 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)He isn't prone to self sabatage like h. He doesn't seem to do silly things.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)with benghazi references and red baiting will have to sit with him in the senate and work with him. AND GUESS WHAT!? He's be a gentleman with all of them. Those women are idiots.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)at least 1992 as Hillary has. A lot of the nastiness used against HRC on this site and elsewhere comes directly from RW-generated conspiracies and biases and quotes out of context. Benghazi and Emailgate are two of those RW-generated conspiracies. Had SoS Kerry been in the office at the time of Benghazi, I doubt very much whether anything whatsoever would have been made out of that admittedly tragic incident.
Those of us who have lived through RW anti-Hillary attacks for decades realize that there is no there there. Is she perfect? Not at all. But she is certainly not what is depicted on this site on a daily basis by nominal Dems - and shamefully so.
If Bernie ever does become a major RW target, the RW and their media collaborators will make nearly everything he says and does sound "silly" whether it actually is or not - just as has been the case with Hillary. Right now it's to their advantage to ease off. He is their best chance at taking Hillary out of the equation altogether.
IllinoisBrenel
(51 posts)I believe he could stand up to anything! It's easy when you tell the truth!
dinkytron
(568 posts)Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)up against Sanders, who would feed their crap right back at them.
Two hours tops.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)....the hearing/grilling was more than just time spent. Interesting that you try to down play that aspect.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)sit on google live chat and field 11 hours of live questions from all the public.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)has.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)That's an achievement? Sitting through a hearing? That's so fucking pathetic.
merrily
(45,251 posts)They tripped her up on a lot of questions, pointing out where she had given an inconsistent answer in the past sometimes more than one inconsistent answer, to the same question. Is looking bored and disrespectful to members of Congress with whom you hope to have to work in a year or so the measure of doing well anymore?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State - and soon to be, Madam President of these United States. You people never cease to amaze me.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)debate about it. My, how her followers forgot that he HELPED HER OUT. Ingrates.
PatrickforO
(14,574 posts)of the DLC and adopted Third Way principles. As such, I'm not surprised she's acting as a strong surrogate for Clinton, another 'new' Democrat. I'm on her mail list, and get surveys from her that force me to pick HER issues as being important. And you know, single payer isn't on there. Ever.
So, I am going to take the liberty of disagreeing with Shaheen much of the time, and as to this quote, it's kind of a sad commentary on Clinton, isn't it, that her performance during the Benghazi hearings is being touted as some kind of banner accomplishment? I mean, when I look at Clinton's big accomplishments, I remember two things:
1. Her speech in 2011 to the NY Economic Club where she boasts about the TPP and her 'economic statecraft.' Because, the TPP is a corporate piece of shit, you know, and it's gonna cost America millions of good jobs just like NAFTA did, and it will allow corporations to overturn democracy at local, state and national levels for every nation that agrees to it. Unless you're a banker or a capitalist, the TPP is gonna hurt you too, Cali. Or it might.
2. The old story about how the two MDs who were top advocates of single payer were ushered into Clinton's presence back in 93 and when they made the pitch, Clinton asked them about the billions of dollars the health insurance lizards would put up to fight it. They replied, asking her, "What about the president leading the people?" She answered, "Tell me something real."
Well, you know, my shitty, rationed healthcare is real. The double digit cost increases I face each year are real. The huge copays and deductibles are real, and the suffering of many people, including someone in my own family is real. The burden my children face with their 'forever' student loans is real. And my fear that Third Way Democrats will side with Republicans to reduce or even end the Social Security I have paid full-boat into for over 40 years and leave me hurting when I am most vulnerable is VERY real.
That is why I'm supporting Sanders this time around. Because he supports things that will actually help me instead of further improving the profit structure of the military industrial complex while further squeezing the nearly extinct American middle class.
Nope. Clinton just isn't my candidate because honestly I don't think she cares about me or my family or our issues at all. Frankly I think she's more interested in being elected than actually governing once she's in there. So I respect your opinion because I know it is different than mine, but this quote from Shaheen is pretty lame fare.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)His temperament is totally unsuited to a national campaign. I shudder thinking of what he'd look like after a single week.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)dogs. Clinton gets flustered when everything is not scripted.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)debate made him appear like a kid who was hearing things he didn't like; making faces as if he's six years old. Give us a break. Bernie is NOT fit to be president of the United States, and guess what? He ain't gonna be despite all the wishful thinking from the extreme-left and everyone else to the right of center.
He continues to do poorly with Blacks, Latinos, and Asians - and thank god for their common sense.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)my president.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)sitting down with the likes of Putin or other less-than-friendly heads of state in important negotiations - which, by the way, demands diplomacy in order to keep the upperhand. Bernie just doesn't have what it takes.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)If you add up the time the Democrats spent making statements and Hillary's long winded evasive answers that would account for a significant chunk of the time.
The one interesting part was when they asked her if she knew certain people (or something along those lines). Her expression was interesting. I don't think she liked the questions.
I still don't understand why so many requests for additional security was ignored or why over so many hours no one arrived to help them out.
I felt really bad for the family members of those lost. It shouldn't be treated as a political prop. Very disrespectful to those lost. It doesn't speak well of Shaheen.
Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)And Sanders stands up for all of us not just himself, unlike Hillary. Plus, Sanders doesn't make bad choices and get himself in hot water like the Hill does.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Blow a gasket
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Sorry. But I'm a grown-up. I don't make faces when someone says things I don't want to hear, and I don't care for adults who do, either.
I watched as this Democratic Socialist made faces while true-blue Democrat Hillary Clinton calmly and cool-as-ice pointed out his pro-NRA and pro-gun votes; pointing out to see if he could primary and run against one of the best presidents of my lifetime, his 2000 vote to deregulate derivatives, credit default swaps and other exotic financial instruments that tanked the economy eight years later.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Because in the debate I watched, Clinton distorted reality repeatedly, tried to smear and capped it all off by trying to use her husbands own policy as a weapon to attack Bernie.
She lost that debate because she went into desperate attack mode.
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Response to Cali_Democrat (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)that proglib used the same type of 'crystal ball' that Shaheen used to figure out how Sanders would tackle a situation she created in her own mind, a situation I doubt Sanders would ever end up in based on my view of his values and positions.
californiabernin
(421 posts)And Hillary Clinton did great. Both are very strong individuals, but they have different political philosophies.
One believes in the power of the people; the other lost her faith in that road long ago.
One believes in doing things the way he always has, with integrity; for the other, the end justifies the means.
Except the end is the means...in the end.
Keep the faith. It's the only way big change happens, and yes....IT CAN.
THE SANDSTORM IS COMING.
SamKnause
(13,103 posts)8 1/2 hours standing.
No bathroom breaks.
No breaks for eating.
8 1/2 of fighting the establishment.
8 1/2 hours of fighting for the rights of 'We The People'.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bernie+sanders+filibuster+
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)rusty quoin
(6,133 posts)She will have my vote if Bernie loses in the primaries. I think the both are great, but Bernie has a long time been closer to my values. Don't worry, Hillary has my vote if she wins.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)He likely would have said something he later tries to walk back, or blame it all in income inequality
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)I like the way he has handled the stress of this campaign far more than the ways that Hillary has.
Bernin4U
(812 posts)"That poor old Bernie is such a delicate little flower. He could never possibly stand up to anyone."
w4rma
(31,700 posts)juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Moban
(12 posts)That's one of the reasons why everyone supports him in the first place. With Hillary, it's just one scandal after another. Besides, if you've done nothing wrong, all you have to do is tell the truth to the committee.
Lawud
(70 posts)that's a good campaign slogan to use as a resume for foreign policy experience against Bernie ...go for it
In a national election if she was to win the nomination , I would hope she wouldn't because she wasn't a very good at the job.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...meant to distract us from the REAL question: Why was the U.S. messing around in Libya, helping to create yet another ME disaster state, in the first place?
THAT is the question that Hillary Clinton should have been asked by somebody, but neither the Pukes in our alleged Congress, nor, of course, the Corporate (Military-Industrial-Prison-Complex) Media, nor any of our war-loving Democratic leaders, wanted that question raised, let alone answered.
So they put on this theater of the absurd, this stupid mockery of an investigative hearing, this wad of spit in our faces, to pretend that they give a damn about U.S. lives lost in the line of duty, in Libya or anywhere else, and we already know that nobody else's lives merit even a thought, or a phony hearing.
Then we turned right around and did the same goddam thing in Syria--ignoring the major asshole dictators of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the UAE, and trying to destroy one of the few remaining secular governments in the Middle East!
Thus. creating. everybody's. nightmare!
I do see complicity here, among the Pukes, the Media, and most of our Democratic Party leaders, including Clinton herself, in hiding, and incessantly lying about, the real purposes of the U.S. government, military and dirty tricks agencies, in the Middle East and North Africa. These are, of course, first of all, to access and control the oil and other resources, and secondly to further enrich U.S. government/military private contractors, and thirdly, to install friendly religious dictators over the rest of the region's people, and fourthly, to play chess games with the Russians. And who suffers--besides the battered, bombed, dislocated, crushed people of these countries, and besides ourselves, forced to pay for it with our lives and our empty wallets? Our allies in Europe suffer, with a nightmare refugee problem.
THIS is the question that MUST be asked and answered: What were we DOING in Libya, at all? Where did this insane plan to overthrow the stable, recognized government of Libya come from? Who devised it? Who weaponized it? Who profited from it? Who was consulted?
There are many more questions that need to be asked and answered about U.S. military and covert operations in the Middle East. We the People are not part of that discussion. We are those who are to be propagandized--with laughably stupid hearings like that one, and in numerous other ways.
To say that Hillary Clinton "endured" this hearing, and should be praised for her endurance, and, indeed, should be elected president because she endured it--is to entirely miss the bigger picture: that neither she nor her questioners were engaged in reality. The hearing was a farce and a coverup, designed to smother any real questions about U.S. policy in the Middle East/North Africa, and most especially to smother any questions about who profits from U.S. policy.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)bad juju.
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MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Even watching the entire damn thing, which I diid, was exhausting. Few can match Hillary's ability to stand up under pressure!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)You see, and I can't believe you need this pointed out to you... Bernie Sanders never presided over the murder of an American Ambassador.
Fuck me to tears but you Hillary Clinton supporters don't mind getting shit on your hands...