Bernie Sanders Struggles To Say Why He Doesn't Support Reparations

[ProudToBeLiberal]

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders repeatedly ducked questions Sunday about why he doesn't support reparations to African Americans because of slavery.

Chuck Todd, the host of NBC's "Meet The Press," asked Sanders why he doesn't endorse the idea of compensating the descendants of slaves when he's built his campaign on issues of economic justice and political revolution. The Vermont senator pivoted.

"Well, for the same reason that Barack Obama has and the same reason I believe that Hillary Clinton has," Sanders said. "And that is, it is absolutely wrong and unacceptable that we have so much poverty in this country and it is even worse in the African American community."

As Sanders listed off statistics about African American youth struggling with unemployment and poverty, Todd noted that he didn't answer the question.

More at http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_56a4f5cbe4b0d8cc109a6997

[highprincipleswork]

1. This is the real news about the POC vote.

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/hillary-clinton-not-second-coming-harriet-tubman

[roguevalley]

109. I await to hear how O'Malley and HRC struggle to speak to this issue. NO candidate supports them

but don't let facts get in the way of the meme.

[Number23]

141. I've seen you post this same link about 6 times. Are you black?

Curious that you seem to find that article so compelling that you insist on posting it in every thread that even attempts to discuss Sanders' support in minority communities.

[99th_Monkey]

2. Bernie "struggles"? LOL. Hardly.

His answer was spot-on -- noting that neither Obama nor Clinton support reparations either -- and
now many in the AA community appear to be taking issue with the guy who trumped-up this hit piece
obviously designed to smear Bernie's reputation among AA's.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511046040

[whatchamacallit]

10. But just like with everything else, notice that position is only an issue for Sanders

The electorate will smell and reject their odious tactics.

[m-lekktor]

14. the talking point is "he is the one claiming to be a revolutionary , the others aren't"

So it's ok Obama and Hillary are against reparations for that reason according to them.

[whatchamacallit]

23. Idiotic

but consider the source(s).

[m-lekktor]

31. I agree. nt

[uponit7771]

161. Reasonable position, HRC and MoM aren't proffering the improbable can get through congress

[99th_Monkey]

16. Hillarians are literally 'banking' on an "ignorant electorate". It's downright insulting to voters.

Thankfully it appears most African Americans aren't buying this crap:
http://observer.com/2016/01/black-americans-defend-sanders-against-ta-nehisi-coates-biased-and-baseless-attacks/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511046040

[Logical]

3. I dont support it either! Nt

[cali]

4. Lol.

[draa]

5. Neither did Obama so...

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama opposes offering reparations to the descendants of slaves, putting him at odds with some black groups and leaders.
The man with a serious chance to become the nation’s first black president argues that government should instead combat the legacy of slavery by improving schools, health care and the economy for all.

“I have said in the past — and I’ll repeat again — that the best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed,” the Illinois Democrat said recently.

…

“Let’s not be naive. Sen. Obama is running for president of the United States, and so he is in a constant battle to save his political life,” said Kibibi Tyehimba, co-chair of the National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America. “In light of the demographics of this country, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect him to do anything other than what he’s done.”

But this is not a position Obama adopted just for the presidential campaign. He voiced the same concerns about reparations during his successful run for the Senate in 2004.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-opposes-reparations-slavery-article-1.314179

As far as I know neither does Clinton, Trump, Cruz, or Rubio. That's why this line of attack just isn't working.

[MeNMyVolt]

6. He seems to do that a lot, not answer the actual question.

Bernie One-note.

[HerbChestnut]

7. And where does Hillary stand on reparations?

More importantly, why isn't Hillary even being *asked* about them?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

8. She's not calling for a political revolution. The onus is on Bernie Sanders. Nt

[HerbChestnut]

18. Oh please.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

20. Yes we can. nt

[HerbChestnut]

24. Hillary disagrees with you.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

26. Viva la revolucion! nt

[whatchamacallit]

19. I see, because of some campaign rhetoric, only Sanders has to state positions or answer questions

Another brilliant response from the Hillteam.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

30. Bernie Sanders is styling himself as a revolutionary. He's calling for a political revolution. nt

[whatchamacallit]

34. Which means what?

All other candidate's positions are somehow immaterial? What kind of braindeadery is this...

[ProudToBeLiberal]

38. It means Bernie Sanders is either a hypocrite or just another typical establishment candidate

He calls for a political revolution. He rails against the rulling class. He styles himself as a revolutionary and democratic socialist. He then squirms his way out of answering the question of reparation. He is either a hypocrite or a another typical establishment candidate.

[whatchamacallit]

42. You guys are getting into Palin territory

with these bizarre, arbitrary distinctions.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

45. Just like Sanders,you squirm your way out of addressing the main points to my argument. nt

[whatchamacallit]

48. Bullshit

It's the Hilbots who have contrived this twisted line between the rhetoric of "a political revolution" and auto-support for reparations. It's nonsensical rubbish, but par for the course, so swing away.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

49. Please let it all out. Go on...nt

[whatchamacallit]

50. I'm done

like Hillary.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

51. Nice jab. I like your comeback. Can I have your permission and use it in the future? nt

[highprincipleswork]

123. And you get to call for the terms of the revolution? That's a novel idea.

In the meantime, let me remind you of some of Hillary's claim to fame in the same general area.

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/hillary-clinton-not-second-coming-harriet-tubman

[Autumn]

44. Bernie platform of economic justice, social justice

and political revolution is what will help African Americans and all people, it's funny though how you Hillary supporters always leave out the political part. Reparations is a wedge issue being used against only Bernie and IMO that's disgusting whether it's being used as a political tool to being him down or raise Hillary up.

[SMC22307]

43. "Political revolution" for good ideas.

Reparations are not, IMO. Seems Obama, Sanders and Clinton agree.

[cheapdate]

53. How do you figure?

Bernie Sanders calls for political revolution, therefore he, and he alone, has an obligation to explain his support or opposition to:
* reparations for African slavery
* returning all land taken unjustly to the Native Americans
* recognizing all sentient creatures as having some basic rights.
* abolishing private ownership of land

I'm sure you can think of others.

Doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe you can explain.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

55. He's styling himself as a revolutionary. nt

[cheapdate]

88. Yes. He's called for a political revolution.

And he's deliberately explained what he means by that.

Why does that give him a special obligation to answer for reparations? If he does have a special obligation to answer for reparations, does he also have a special obligation to answer for justice for Native Americans? Does he also have a special obligation to explain his conception of private property? Why or why not.

Help me understand your argument.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

89. Do you support the redistribution of wealth? nt

[cheapdate]

91. Sure.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

93. Do you support the Warren Buffet rule? nt

[cheapdate]

105. I'm not a tax policy wonk.

I have only a rudimentary understanding of the "Buffet Rule" and no real opinion on it one way or the other. I'm not opposed to the idea of sharply progressive taxes on income or accumulated wealth.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

107. Thank you for answering my questions. You are a good dude. nt

[Vincardog]

73. So taking back control from the monied elite has to include your pet issue first?

[highprincipleswork]

121. Oh I get it, he needs to call for a revolution on EVERYTHING does he now?

Let me remind you of Hillary's positions in the realm of this issue.

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/hillary-clinton-not-second-coming-harriet-tubman

[Empowerer]

136. Of course not. But knowing what he thinks is worth fighting for and what (and who) he thinks aren't

is very important.

[Ken Burch]

153. It's equally on all of them

And voting for HRC or M'oM is not going to make reparations happen.

[MeNMyVolt]

11. The OP is about SBS not answering the question, not HRC.

Start a new OP maybe?

[HerbChestnut]

17. Nice dodge.

[MeNMyVolt]

25. Not a dodge.

I'm just sick and tired that every OP that's even the slightest bit negative about SBS gets filled with "but what about Hillary..." replies. It's tedious.

[HerbChestnut]

27. In this case it's fair.

There isn't a single candidate running that supports reparations and yet Bernie is the only one being pressured on it. Even President Obama didn't support the idea back in 2008.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

32. President Obama didn't call for a political revolution in 2008. nt

[HerbChestnut]

33. Keep harping on this.

See how far it gets your candidate.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

36. si se puede! nt

[HerbChestnut]

37. Again, Hillary disagrees.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

39. u mad, bro? nt

[HerbChestnut]

46. No, I'm not mad at all.

It's just disappointing to see Hillary supporters completely drop debates on the issues and resort to race baiting, sexism, or outright making stuff up (like this thread). But keep rolling with it. It's clearly working with voters seeing Hillary's lofty ascent in the polls.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

47. I'm glad to see you are not mad. It's bad for your health if your are constantly angry. nt

[Fawke Em]

95. Some of her supporters are still stuck in Stage 4.

Most have moved through Stage 5 and are jumping into Stage 6 with both feet, but the poster to whom you're responding must be slower, so they're still back on 4.

STAGE 4: Smear the candidate and his supporters with innuendos of sexism and racism by falsely claiming only white men support them (you like this candidate because he’s white and male like you, not because of ideology or policy or contempt for the party establishment’s corporatist, pro-war approach).

STAGE 5: Brazen invocation of right-wing attacks to marginalize and demonize, as polls prove the candidate is a credible threat (he’s weak on terrorism, will surrender to ISIS, has crazy associations, and is a clone of Mao and Stalin).

STAGE 6: Issuance of grave and hysterical warnings about the pending apocalypse if the establishment candidate is rejected, as the possibility of losing becomes imminent (you are destined for decades, perhaps even generations, of powerlessness if you disobey our decrees about who to select).

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/23/1474115/-Bernie-fans-should-brace-themselves-for-the-coming-ugly

[R B Garr]

149. You are free to spam Chuck Todd with what

your post really means:

LEAVE BERNIE ALONE!!

It's pretty telling that you are avoiding the thread issues and post this spam instead. Ironic and hilarious since you are really just outraged that Bernie is being challenged on the talk shows. Both Chuck Todd and Martha Raddatz challenged BS today, but your response is to spam with this petty tripe not at all related to the thread. WTF, but typical.

[Fawke Em]

154. No. My post had nothing to do with Bernie.

It has to do with you.

Bernie handled himself just fine and ABC is getting trashed on social media for this headline. I'm fine with that.

[R B Garr]

156. No, your spam has to do with you.

You picked it; you posted it. At least twice now in threads about his talk show appearances. I was nowhere around and did not force you to post this unrelated spam. This obviously means a lot to you since you are spamming it. Hilarious that you would blame it on me.

Thanks for admitting that trashing people on social media is a big "thing" for you and other BS supporters. That's very obvious.

And I was right about your true message:

LEAVE BERNIE ALONE!


,

[draa]

130. It's because they can't win on the issues.

On every single issue Bernie bests Clinton. They know that so all that's left is lies, smears, and insinuations. It's positively Republican isn't it? It also won't work.

[baldguy]

182. Because Sanders - Not Clinton - is perfectly happy to propose all kinds of

unattainable, pie-in-the sky programs. Except for the equally unattainable, pie-in-the sky proposal for reparations - which Ta-Nehisi Coates explained in his original piece.

You did read Ta-Nehisi Coates' original piece, didn't you?

[pinebox]

9. Right kind of like this?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/01/17/hillary_clinton_gives_one_word_answer_when_asked_about_fbi_investigation_into_email_server.html

Ohhh THAT!

[Vinca]

12. All he has to say is "for the same reasons Barack Obama and Bill Clinton do."

[uponit7771]

162. Which had nothing to do with revolution

[KingFlorez]

13. He's being realistic on this

Reparations would never pass and he is quite aware of that. It turns out that like any other politician, he has a limit to what he will push for in this campaign.

[HerbChestnut]

28. Or maybe he's not as "pie in the sky" as many people make him out to be.

[Empowerer]

56. And some black folk are asking why that line is drawn at what we are asking for?

Reparations are no more unrealistic or unattainable than single payer or Wall Street reform. The only real difference is that they are not popular with white people.

Telling people that he is going to fight, fight, fight the oligarchy on behalf of ordinary people, no matter how impossible success may seem, by generating a ground-up revolution, but then, when reparations come up, shrugging his shoulders and saying, "We can't do that - that's too hard and it's too divisive (i.e., it might make some people uncomfortable)" naturally leads people to raise questions.

It certainly isn't an effective minority voter outreach strategy to tell black people that an issue that we care about isn't important enough to fight for but the benefits of the other things he's committed to will "trickle down" to us - when we have been there done that and know better.

[azurnoir]

195. okay I have a few questions frst being who is going pay these reparations?

and to whom exactly?

oh and why is okay for the Black POTUS to be against them?

why is it okay for a white Christian ( or at least one who belongs to the Fellowship) woman candidate to be against them?

but not

a Jewish candidate?

[Empowerer]

199. This post does not deserve a response

[azurnoir]

200. IOW you do not have any answers? who will be responsible for paying reparations?

[uponit7771]

163. Of course, realistic on reparations but not on SP... not a consistent position

[Recursion]

171. Oh, it's pretty damn consistent with white populism for the past century+

More's the pity

[uponit7771]

172. Yeap, and that's why Sanders is at 21% with black and Hispanic communities... revolution with an

... asterisk undermines revolution

[azurnoir]

203. okay I'll ask you- who exactly will be paying the reparations?

how will who's eligible to receive them be determined?

[beam me up scottie]

15. When will they ask Hillary why she doesn't support them?

Toady is using his newly issued talking point like a dog with a new bone.

[uponit7771]

164. HRC isn't calling for a revolution, that's Sanders is

[beam me up scottie]

170. If you're actually concerned with reparations and not just exploiting the issue her position matters

[Bettie]

188. So, because she doesn't believe

in actually improving anything, beyond a mild suggestion that maybe some of the crumbs falling from the table might be slightly larger than if a Republican is elected, she's exempted from supporting this specific issue, which is essential for Sanders?

By saying "no, we can't reform Wall Street, no, we can't have single payer, no, we can't....no, we can't" she immunizes herself from ever having to do anything but wait for the crown to be placed on her head? Nice deal if you can get it.

Guess we should have just all laid down and accepted a coronation.

[Autumn]

21. Hey Toad. He doesn't need to, if the "Liberal bastions" Like Obama Clinton and Hillary

don't have to come out in support of them, or actually even be asked if they support reparations there is no reason at all that Bernie should have to explain why he hasn't come out in support of them. Transparent as all get out. Bernie has built his campaign on issues of economic justice and political revolution and tying support to Reparations to that is bullshit. Economic justice and political revolution benefits us all, not just African Americans because of their ancestors slavery.

[uponit7771]

173. The estasblishment isn't calling for a revolution against itself. Revolution with an asterisk is not

... a revolution

[Autumn]

193. There's a difference between a revolution and a political revolution.

Still leaving out the political.

[uponit7771]

197. either one the establishment loses

[Autumn]

198. Then the people win and can get "free stuff" instead of just the corporations and the 1%

getting "free stuff".

[kcjohn1]

29. I'm against Reparations

On principle I agree with the thought, but reparations as known by the general public (cash to slave descendants) I'm 100% against. It is just not practical. How do you decide who actually gets it? Do you base it on skin color?

If your goal is to help black Americans, there are so many more effective methods. For starters, increasing minimum wage to $15 would help so many black families. Free college? How many black students would benefit from that? Guaranteed health care? What portion of the uninsured are black?

At some point this country needs to formally atone for slavery and how it got rich off the backs of slaves. But at this point there are more pressing issues than to take on an issue that will just serve as divisive / wedge issue.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

35. So, you were against reparations for Japanese Americans who were put into internment camps? nt

[whatchamacallit]

40. Logic would demand you ask the president these burning questions

but apparently logic is a rare commodity in Camp Weathervane.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

41. Please do not put words into kcjohn's mouth. nt

[jeff47]

60. Irony. (nt)

[ProudToBeLiberal]

63. whatchamacallit is a good dude. Please stop making fun of him. nt

[jeff47]

67. I'm making fun of you.

Please re-read post 54, where you shove words into my mouth.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

79. What if I told you that you've wounded my feelings. nt

[pintobean]

83. Enough to alert?

On Sun Jan 24, 2016, 03:06 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I'm making fun of you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1058438

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack. The OP admits that he is making fun of the poster. This is a direct admission from the OP himself.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 24, 2016, 03:12 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Silly alert.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see a discussion now a PA. It was a defense.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[ProudToBeLiberal]

85. Jeff is my friend. nt

[jeff47]

52. Those were paid to the people actually in the camps

Not their great, great, great grandchildren.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

54. Wow, you seriously are going to make that argument? Next, you're going to say we should ignore

Native Americans and the problems they are facing today due to the actions of our past.

[jeff47]

59. Nope. I'm pointing out there was no "Who gets the money?" problem to solve.

But gotta keep pushing that "Sanders supporters are racists!!!!one!!!" meme.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

61. Please stop putting words in my mouth

You're the one you said "Sanders supporters are racist." Not me.

[jeff47]

65. You mean like you just did to me?

Golly, that would be horrible to claim someone hates Native Americans based on shoving words in their mouth.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

68. I see you are trying to avoid responsibility for your words

just like Bernie Sanders.

[jeff47]

69. Do you always post to yourself?

You put words in my mouth, then got offended about others doing the same thing.

Clean up your own house before you complain about others.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

72. I thought we had something special. Why are you giving me the cold shoulder? nt

[SMC22307]

77. Native Americans. Chinese railroad workers. Poor white Appalachian miners.

Immigrant garment workers who perished in a fire -- or were impaled on a wrought-iron fence as they flung themselves out of windows -- thanks to greedy fucking management who locked exits and stairwells in the workplace.

Slavery was horrific, but face it, many groups have been shat on in this country. Reparations are not the answer; Bernie's proposals are. Jobs. Livable wages. Healthcare for all. Non-predatory banking. Affordable college tuition. Fair housing. Etc.

How would it be determined who gets reparations?

Who pays? Slave states and African nations who sold slaves?

[sadoldgirl]

80. do you want to return all the land we took from them?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

81. I never said that. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

82. I think the difference would be reparations were only given to people who were in the camps

Apples and oranges.

[Travis_0004]

179. They were actually put in internment camps and had their shit taken

I was fine with that.

If it was proposed 200 years from now, I would be against it.

[Empowerer]

70. The measures you point to will help some black people to a point

But unless structural racism in this society is addressed and remedied, they will have the same internally discriminatory impacts that similar measures have had for decades. An increase in minimum wage, free college, and health insurance will not do us nearly as much good as it will for white folks as long as we continue to face job discrimination, the dismantling of affirmative action, health disparities unrelated to insurance and numerous other structural barriers that have been built into the system and must be dismantled with measures beyond the eradication of economic inequality. Black people know this. The question is why don't Bernie Sanders and his supporters get this? And, even if they didn't know it before (given a lack of previous exposure to these issues), why do they consistently argue down black voters when we try to explain it to them - insisting that WE don't know what WE'RE talking about and if we just follow Sanders, all will be well for us. Just pay closer attention and we will understand why Bernie is our best hope. (After all, he DID march with Dr. King, you know).

It's tone-deaf and insulting. And it does not bode well for a Sanders Administration - we are sophisticated enough to understand that a candidate who doesn't listen to or can't seem to hear us when he's trying to get our votes is not likely to be responsive to us once he's in office.

[gollygee]

202. +1

Instead of reparations, do stuff that will be affected by racism as much as everything else in this country? How is that a solution? $15 minimum wage but still the same discrimination in hiring. Universal healthcare but the same discrimination in the healthcare system.

There are a lot of people who don't really want to fight racism. They are happy to see things happen that will help people of color, so long as they're helped as well. But nothing that only helps whole populations who have been pushed back and held back for the entire history of our country.

[TipTok]

140. If you can find an actual person who lived under slavery...

.... I might buy off on it.

Beyond that, the concept is ridiculous.

[Recursion]

142. What do reparations have to do with slavery?

I mean, this is obviously in the context of Coates's question, and Coates's argument for reparations is about FHA and USDA loan policies in the 1950s and 1960s. Plenty of people are alive from that time.

[TipTok]

143. I was talking about the article in the OP...

"Chuck Todd, the host of NBC's "Meet The Press," asked Sanders why he doesn't endorse the idea of compensating the descendants of slaves when he's built his campaign on issues of economic justice and political revolution. "

Did you read the article?

[aikoaiko]

175. I do not recall that he limited his case to 1950-60s actions

He expanded reparations to include those gov actions.

Perhaps you could quote TNC where he takes reparations for slavery off the table.

[mhatrw]

57. Does Clinton support reparations?

Does Obama? Then what kind of nonsense gotcha is this?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

58. Bernie Sanders is styling himself as a revolutionary. He's calling for a political revolution. nt

[mhatrw]

64. And?

Should he have to answer questions about why it is OK to pay some people more than others or why it is OK not to give back all US land to Native Americans?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

71. Yes. nt

[mhatrw]

78. LOL

And then when he shakes his head and reroutes the questioner to reality, you can say "he struggled to answer"!

[uponit7771]

174. Revolution with an asterisk is not a revolution.

[Empowerer]

76. You've put your finger on the problem, perhaps unintentionally . . .

The problem that many of Sanders' supporters seem to have with reparations is that it doesn't benefit THEM and therefore, unlike other measures that they are likely to reap some benefit from, they don't seem valid or fair or important.

[mhatrw]

84. Wrong. I'm all for reparations. I'm also for a $20 minimum wage and a $200 maximum wage.

And a 50% tax on all individual wealth over $5 million.

I just don't see why Sanders has to explain why he is against something every other candidate in the field is against.

[Empowerer]

87. He needs to explain it because it completely contradicts what he says he stands for

The others' position on reparations are fully consistent with their other positions.

[mhatrw]

131. You mean their positions as slave master apologists? nt

[SMC22307]

92. Wrong. It's a fairness issue. MANY groups...

have suffered in the founding of this "great nation": Native Americans, Chinese railroad workers, poor white Appalachians, immigrant factory workers, etc.

Do descendants of those who fought and died in the Civil War get reparations? Whether those morally opposed to slavery, or those duped by rich, white landowners and Jefferson Davis?

Who pays? Slave states and African nations that sold slaves?

[Empowerer]

97. All of those groups are certainly welcome to advocate for reparations on their behalf

But it is ridiculous to suggest that one group is not entitled to reparations unless and until ALL groups get them.

Free college only benefits certain people in this country - many others will reap no benefit from it. Does that mean that Sanders should not fight for it unless and until every single American can go to college for free? Of course not because that would be stupid.

Just as stupid as insisting that reparations for African Americans are not "fair" because they don't because they don't benefit every group that has been oppressed.

[SMC22307]

108. LOL! And that is precisely why you'll get nowhere with reparations.

They're exclusionary to the MANY other groups that have suffered. The issue is those *with* the money and power exploiting land, resources, and human capital, regardless of said capital's race. You know, 1% v. 99% type stuff. Sanders' proposals addressing economic and social justice -- for all -- are the way to go.

I pay taxes for public schools and am happy to do so, even though I decided not to have kids. It benefits the collective good, as would free college. All races would benefit. Reparations benefit one group. Again, fairness, especially considering so many people in this country have been shat upon.

The ACA is another example. I pay taxes, taxes that help subsidize others' health insurance premiums. That's on top of the $100 I pay per month for my own health insurance. Not just one group benefits from having health insurance. Fairness.

[Bobbie Jo]

118. No one

And I mean NO ONE has suffered more than Black people in this country. No other minority group even comes close.

To even try to argue otherwise is ridiculous.

This class victim nonsense is whiny in the extreme, not to mention incredibly dismissive. Go read up on a little history. Black people were BRUTALIZED, MARGINALIZED, and SEGREGATED from society.

Poor, oppressed white people. This shit is infuriating.

LOL

Reparations. Yes.

[Blue_In_AK]

126. I'm sure the Native Americans would, disagree with you on that.

[SMC22307]

127. I'm not participating in Oppression Olympics with you, or anyone.

But you are being incredibly dismissive of others who have suffered horribly -- Native Americans, Chinese railroad workers, poor, white Appalachian miners, immigrant factory workers. And that is precisely why reparations will go nowhere. About 15% of the country supports them. You'd think Obama, considering his skills as an orator, could have swayed the nation a bit. At least above 15%! But even he doesn't think they're the way to go.

Reparations? No.

[Bobbie Jo]

128. Not even close. nt

[SMC22307]

129. Look, I know it must sting that Obama doesn't support reparations.

And that he, Sanders, and even Clinton are, for the most part, in alignment on this issue. I'm not sure of O'Malley's position -- need to see if it's been presented elsewhere in this thread.

[Bobbie Jo]

134. You're out of your depth here.

That you even brought Obama into this conversation tells me that you're unprepared to debate the issue with any basic understanding.

What useless snark.

Please, continue with the class crusade.

[SMC22307]

135. LOL Oh, Bobbie Jo.

You don't think it's important to know the views of a sitting president on reparations? Now that we're all having this discussion, I'd like to know what Bill Clinton ("the first black president&quot had to say on the matter. It's important that everyone understand the three primary candidates' positions as well, in spite of all the wailing about how this thread is only about Bernie.

[Number23]

145. Anytime I see someone chime in with the term "Oppression Olympics" I IMMEDIATELY

know it's someone not worth even a second of anyone's time.

[SMC22307]

146. You mean like Bravenak?

You cannot compete with black women in the oppression olympics without looking terrible if you are basing it off of the adversity of someone not you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=712192

[Number23]

147. Do you literally have dreams about her?

'Cause good LORD she got under your skin, didn't she??



I don't agree with her use of that phrase but bravenak has a clue about issues that affect black folks, unlike a BOATLOAD of others that use that phrase around here. Thanks

[SMC22307]

152. Anyone who shits up and down a message board I truly enjoy...

is going to be noticed, especially when the majority of members were referred to as "useless white supremacist liberals."

I'm actually quite surprised that you admit you don't agree with her on something... wow!

[Number23]

155. Yes, we all "saw" how much you fixated, I mean "enjoyed" her

Since she's been on time out for some time, maybe you'll get close to almost HALF your posts here not being about bravenak! Well, maybe starting tomorrow. You kind of ruined that with this thread.

I'm actually quite surprised that you admit you don't agree with her on something... wow!

Oh honey. Bless your heart.

[SMC22307]

157. Sounds like you're keeping tabs on me and the content of my posts.

I'm flattered!

[Number23]

158. I could have the Hubble telescope and still not keep as close tabs as you do on brave

And the only thing that could be a bigger waste of your time than your enduring fixation on bravenak is thinking for even one second that anything I might have ever thought about you would be flattering.

This was damn good fun. Totally at your expense, but fun nonetheless.

[SMC22307]

159. Remember...

Anytime I see someone chime in with the term "Oppression Olympics" I IMMEDIATELY know it's someone not worth even a second of anyone's time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1060909

You cannot compete with black women in the oppression olympics without looking terrible if you are basing it off of the adversity of someone not you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=712192

N23, you make it just too easy.

[m-lekktor]

181. ouch. nt

[Empowerer]

137. Funny how you think that the people and things YOU want to support with your taxes

benefit the "collective good" but reparations to people who have been consistently left behind don't benefit anyone but the people to whom the reparations are provided.

That speaks volumes...

[Number23]

150. I guess s/he's a bit too busy to answer this post of yours. And yes it does speak "volumes"

[uponit7771]

176. +1

[Autumn]

94. You are obviously confused. Bernie's political revolution is a call for a

mass movement by the people to make progress on debilitating levels of inequality and student debt, the increasing threat of climate change, and the firm grip on the nation's democracy held by the billionaire class and corporate interests. Issues that concern us all. That has been explained to you Hillary supporters time after time and time after time you ignore it post the gotcha garbage. Do any of you realize how that makes you look? And in case you don't understand what a mass movement is here you go

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mass-movement

mass movement
Word Origin
noun
1. an organized effort by a large number of people, especially those not forming part of the elite of a given society, to bring about pervasive changes in existing social, economic, or political institutions, frequently characterized by charismatic leadership.

[Zorra]

185. Well said.

[ypsfonos]

62. No he didn't.

That was no struggle.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

66. Next you're going to tell me that the fight for Civil Rights wasn't a struggle. nt

[Iggy Knorr]

74. Proud to be

something

[ProudToBeLiberal]

75. Proud to be

Iggy Knorr

[mhatrw]

86. Orwellian?

[Duckhunter935]

90. does Hillary or MOM?

[beam me up scottie]

96. Revolution/This is about Bernie/Start your own thread

Lather rinse repeat.

It's almost like the op doesn't want to discuss the issue.

And be careful, there always seem to be a lot of alerts in these threads.

[Duckhunter935]

98. I know, right

[beam me up scottie]

100. Best to just let it sink.

[Duckhunter935]

101. .

[ProudToBeLiberal]

102. ...

[cherokeeprogressive]

103. I'd like to see that practice return. nt

[beam me up scottie]

104. Me too, it's a good one. :)

[ProudToBeLiberal]

99. Thank you for having my back. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

110. becaue obviously, Hillary cannot run on the issues.

[beam me up scottie]

112. Her supporters do seem to believe that, don't they?

When was the last time we saw a thread about Hillary's position on any issues from them?

[Warren DeMontague]

113. ...."it's the issue of anecdotal tales of Bernie Supporters saying nasty things on facebook!"

ITS AN ISSUE!

[beam me up scottie]

114. You know what it reminds me of?

Those infomercials where they show you clips of stupid people misusing a product in some incredibly idiotic way so they can sell you their BETTER thingamajiggy because you won't make THAT kind of mistake with their product.

They parody Bernie and create busloads of strawmen because they can't sell Hillary any other way.

24/7 we're bombarded with: Bernie/Bernie's positions/wife/supporters SUCK with absolutely no reason why we should vote for Hillary.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. ...

[beam me up scottie]

120. More puff pieces! Polls! Celebrity endorsements! Baby kissing!

Issues?

We don't need no stinking issues!

[nc4bo]

106. This Youtuber doesn't think it's a great idea either.......for what it's worth

to the discussion of this thread.

[JRLeft]

111. Reparations will never happen and it's time for people who demand it to give up.

[Empowerer]

138. Gay marriage was never going to happen either. Neither was desegregation or women's suffrage or

numerous other things.

It's sad how you guys are twisting yourselves in knots to justify Sanders' blatant and, so far, unexplained inconsistency on this issue. And even sadder is that you don't seem to realize how narrow-minded and elitists you sound in doing so - yet you wonder why black voters aren't falling all over themselves to support Sanders. His supporters who express the views that you are espousing are a large part of the reason.

[Travis_0004]

180. Gay marriage wont bankrupt the country?

How much should every black person get, and how do we pay for it?

[JRLeft]

184. I agree that's a legitimate issue and it's reasonable, but reparations

would have to be given to native Americans too, there could be 100 million people with slave and Native American blood.

[Empowerer]

189. Since when does a civil rights gain have to be applied to every single person before it can be

applied to anyone at all?

Do you think the Supreme Court should not have overturned miscegenation laws in the 1960s because it did not also legalize gay marriage?

This kind of all-or-nothing approach is one of the common tools for denying civil rights. Reparations couldn't be granted because black people couldn't be trusted with 40 acres and a mule. Then it was because Southerners would never agree to it, and so on. And now we're hearing "it's not fair to Native Americans for blacks to get reparations so we shouldn't do them until EVERY oppressed person can participate." And then if you stall long enough, the excuse becomes "it's been too long - how can we ever figure out who should get them and how much they should get?"

See how that works?

[JRLeft]

191. I understand exactly what you are saying. There's always going to be a reason not

do the right thing.

[uponit7771]

165. Neither will SP then, the inconsistency is gob smacking

[Nanjeanne]

115. I watched this live

I never got the impression that Sanders was struggling. Because these shows require quick soundbites - he first started with the fact that Obama and Clinton don't support it either - which he obviously wanted to get out there. He then talked about what needed to be done in the African American community.

I guess he thought Chuck was smart enough to get from A to B without a diagram - so Chuck was the one who said he didn't answer the question.

At which point Sanders said he did answer it and again said he believed the focus should be on what can be done now and for the future.

Somehow it's Sanders fault that Chuck is too dense to understand the answer?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

178. Chuck Todd has the IQ of a turnip... and that might be too generous.

[Red Mountain]

116. Why any Democrat

Would give Chuck Todd the authority to define the debate for Democrats is beyond me.

Well, not really BEYOND me. Always nice to have somebody score cheap points (even if they don't make much sense) on the opposition. Nice but shortsighted.

[Jefferson23]

119. The subject is being used to portray Sanders to have a questionable commitment

regarding discrimination facing the black community. The premise that if he is a revolutionary
that would mean by definition he should be pushing reparations as part of his political agenda.

If Sanders was as revolutionary as the author claims he has been, how does one
explain all of Sanders inconsistencies..he does have them and all are documented.
On guns, on foreign policy...why pretend he is what the right has claimed his politics
to be?

If one believes as I do that reparations are a just means to address a violent past of slavery
and all the horrific consequences of it since then...why not frame the OP to tell him,
we need someone in power to advance this proposal and no one is.

Sanders answered the question just as he has answered other questions on
his votes such as the I/P conflict, on which he is not a revolutionary.

[uponit7771]

177. +1,Then revolution shouldn't be part of his campaign, I'd accept that

[Jefferson23]

192. Ok. Let me please elaborate on what I agree with on this subject as the

author has defined it and where I have disagreements.

What I disagree with is his presumption Sanders has defined himself
as a radical therefore with Bernie there are questionable reasons he is dismissing
and not including reparations. I find on whole that is inaccurate. One needs to view
Sanders record to see he does not have a self declaration of any such label
and never has.

To suggest Bernie should as the author implies, is his opinion yet there is
no illegitimacy in his campaign platform without it. Sanders has his own
definition of his world view and how inequality is best addressed. It is
certainly fair to say he does not agree with Bernie on the case for reparations
and I join him on that disagreement. I support the case for reparations and
have always found Democrats lack of will to fight for it shameful.

I do not agree with said author if he is implying that
Sanders is disingenuous/inconsistent on the issue of racial
equality as a result of not living up to a label Sanders never
embraced in the first place. He is free to define his platform
and his goals in relationship to our political system.

I find Sanders is a strong candidate and can take criticism
even when some of his supporters may lack that ability.

Author brings critically important issues up and I imagine he'll
continue to do so and hopefully Sanders is listening too.

Sanders main objective is his focus on the corruption of our
election system, and has committed himself to end that
through political activism..the political revolution he speaks
of.

There are a vast array of issues that rest under that umbrella
of corruption and why I support Sanders to begin that confrontation.
It will take tremendous will and organized political activism beyond
the voting booth and I would think Coates would agree with that.

[Recursion]

122. Interesting that once again it's about "slavery" reparations

Which is odd, since this is obviously in the context of Coates's piece, and Coates very specifically isn't talking about "slavery" reparations.

[uponit7771]

166. +1

[Blue_In_AK]

125. Bernie has the same position on reparations as Hillary.

While the idea of reparations is noble, the practical imposition would be a nightmare.

[mvd]

144. Yes true

I like the idea of them. Slaves built so much in this country. A lot would have to be worked out: how much, who gets them, distributed how, etc. But I think they should be part of the discussion like other hard to pass ideas like Single Payer. Right now would not pass, but I wish Bernie had been a little less dismissive in his response. He has an image (not deserved and I think media driven) of being out of touch with minority communities.

[Empowerer]

160. I appreciate your rational, balanced comment

You're right, Sanders does have such a reputation. However, I don't think it's media driven - instead, much of it is driven by his supporters who have been dismissive and often downright nasty to minority voters who haven't supporter Sanders. I wish that supporters as reasonable as you were more prevalent on this site. I understand why you're not, given the reaction that some here have to anyone who doesn't agree with them. But you are a breath of fresh air. Thank you.

[mvd]

201. Thanks; I appreciate your comments

I only pick certain topics to post on right now. I also wish there were more comments accepting of other opinions. I'm sure many Sanders supporters want to reach out and get minority support. I do my best here to represent Bernie supporters well.

[uponit7771]

167. So will SP!!! His inconsistency is gob smacking!!!

[Blue_In_AK]

194. Single payer is much more doable than reparations.

How would reparations work exactly? Would everyone have to provide documentary proof that their ancestors were slaves? What percentage of African-American blood would a person need to qualify? Where would the money come from? What if the ancestors of the people being taxed had nothing to do with slavery but instead were abolitionists? How about Native Americans or other ethnic groups who were maligned during the course of America's sordid history?

Bernie's plans to level the playing field for everyone would have far more positive results for African-Americans and other minorities than reparations ever could and be far less divisive.

[uponit7771]

196. Reparations is easier than SP by a long shot, equalize public school cost ... set a floor

... and subsidize college and board et al for blacks.

Not expensive and doable.. and moral

[NowSam]

132. I think the heirs of the plantation owners

are the ones who stole the labor, dignity. and attempted to steal the humanity of these people. if wealth can be inherited and done so on the backs of those who built that wealth toiling away for their Masters than the decendent's of slaves should have a right to a lein on that wealth. That is my own opinion. I am a Bernie man but he did completely sidestep the question. Ultimately his solutions will begin to level the playing field and with free college and universal Healthcare I would say that reparations are beginning to be made to all who have labored to enrich the billionaire class. So in the end a vote for Bernie is a vote to repair many wrongs.

[Vattel]

133. Bernie should get reparations for being subjected to such stupid attacks.

[TipTok]

139. Reparations are a joke...

[uponit7771]

168. For whom? tia

[TipTok]

190. In the context of the conversation...

... descendants of American slaves.

Whatever that would entail...

I should have been more clear. The concept of paying someone who has been harmed in an effort to make them 'whole' is a foundation of the legal system.

[R B Garr]

151. Wow, Bernie got owned. He was HOSTILE and

flustered. He cannot handle pushback without coming unglued.

[uponit7771]

169. Yeap, Clinton & Obama aren't claiming to be revolutionaries with no congress behind them Sanders is

[riversedge]

183. ha ha. The fact that Sanders did not answer his guestion was so obvious, even todd picked this up...

Chuck Todd, the host of NBC's "Meet The Press," asked Sanders why he doesn't endorse the idea of compensating the descendants of slaves when he's built his campaign on issues of economic justice and political revolution. The Vermont senator pivoted.

"Well, for the same reason that Barack Obama has and the same reason I believe that Hillary Clinton has," Sanders said. "And that is, it is absolutely wrong and unacceptable that we have so much poverty in this country and it is even worse in the African American community."

As Sanders listed off statistics about African American youth struggling with unemployment and poverty, Todd noted that he didn't answer the question.

[Tarc]

187. I'd support specific cases, such as land theft outlined here

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

But an overall, general payback? No, I'm not on board with that at all, and as a Clinton supporter I find no fault in Sanders' response.