Our political system is deeply corrupt. That means

[cali]

both parties have a problem with corruption. Whether the republican party is more corrupt doesn't absolve the Democratic Party. Pretending that it's only the republicans is an astonishing bit of denial. Understanding that there is corruption in the Democratic Party, doesn't mean not acknowledging that the Democratic Party is the best vehicle for progressive change.

Our political system has been overrun by big money. It has been corrupted by it.

Recognizing this is the first step toward reforming it.

[gyroscope]

1. Hillary acknowledges the corrupting influence of money

while raking in record millions from her Wall Street donors.

she has perfected the art of pandering and paying lip service to almost everything she talks about.

[OnlinePoker]

20. And it's obvious if people vote for her, they don't want change, just the status quo

If it's Clinton versus Trump, it's one corporate stooge against another and the electorate will be caught in the middle.

[Blue_Adept]

2. And it's a bottom up fix

There is no "replace the head and everything is fine" play to be made here.

Unfortunately, this requires actual hard work at local and state levels, and Democrats are basically a gaggle of cats that can't be herded to do what's needed.

[Andy823]

5. Good point.

It does have to start at the local level and work it's way up, but sadly the republicans have figured that out, and democrats have not seen through what is happening. Way to many democrats sit home and don't bother to vote, they fall for the "both parties are the same" meme that the right wing trolls push. All one has to do is look at the problems locally, and a state levels where republicans have taken control, Flint is a perfect example, to see the damage that is being caused.

Yes having someone who will try and change things at the top is nice, but until they have a majority of like thinking members in congress to help pass the bills that need to be passed, nothing will change.

[Armstead]

12. The tone is set from the top

How can you expect a lot of enthusiasm to be generated at the local level when the national message is "We can't do anything. We don't have the power" instead of "Work harder to advance liberal/progressive change and refiorm anbd we'll have your back"......?

Faced with that year after year, decade after decade a lot of people channel their energy and ideals elsewhere. They are (and long have been) working for change in many ways. But when Democrats get elected to top level positions but then cave in to Corporate Interests on a regular basis (Bill Clinton and to a lesser extent Obama) and when their anointed successors make it a point to say "No we can't do anything you really want" that tends to dampen enthusiasm.

Why for example, should those who support a movement towards single payer universal healthcare have to work so hard against the messages and actions of the national Democratic Party that even bats back mild compromises like a public option?

Why do people have to fight so hard against Democratic leaders to forestall this relentless assault on domestic workers and industry in the name of corporate "free trade."

[zeemike]

13. Exactly.

Without leadership from the top there can be no change.

[A Simple Game]

18. Exactly, at best trying to fix this from the bottom up would take about 30 years.

Before that could happen half or more of the new blood starting on the bottom would have gone over to the dark side.

To use an old saying: a fish rots from the head down.

Also a CEO sets the corporate moral tone, not an hourly worker.

[Armstead]

8. The foxes run the henhouses at all levels too

[SoLeftIAmRight]

9. This is the thing that must be changed

she is not the one

[JudyM]

10. +1. My hope is that if Hillary wins, Bernie and MOM partner to work with the awakened groundswell

to put teeth into that energy at local levels and engineer the fix. They could do it.

[pangaia]

14. There are sure a lot of young Sanders supporters

who seem to be working damn hard and gaggling in the same direction.

Sick em' on the state and local levels and the revolution succeeds.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. There are a lot of young supporters of all of the candidates ...

working damned hard in the same direction. There always has been ... every 4 years. The problem is ... the state and local requires 365 day attention and a recognition that things change slowly.

[1StrongBlackMan]

19. Absolutely correct ...

it's a bottom up fix ... There is no "replace the head and everything is fine" play to be made here.

But I would suggest that it doesn't require "a movement" or "a revolution" ... We have the template for the fix, and have had it all along ... doing the "hard work at local and state levels".

However, that template appears wholly unattractive to those drawn to "movements" and "revolutions" that only requires showing up, angry.

[Blue_Adept]

22. Which is why I don't get caught up in the Bernie side

I saw the exact same thing happen with Obama as well. Huge support, tons of people, but they all disappeared afterward.

I so want to be surprised and not have that happen this time. But I've seen it in far too many elections. The Democratic side has its strong hard workers constantly pushing, but they tend to do it outside of politics directly. Leaving us with more middle of the road candidates instead.

I had always wanted to get involved myself in actual office locally, but my work history in adult entertainment pretty much nixed it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. So true ...

"movements"/"revolutions" tend to be sporadic, temporal, events at best.

The Democratic side has its strong hard workers constantly pushing, but they tend to do it outside of politics directly. Leaving us with more middle of the road candidates instead.

The problem as I see it, is not that the strong hard workers (of the Democratic Party) are pushing outside of politics, leaving us with middle of the road candidates; but rather, those that want more progressive candidates, are only willing to do the hard work, every 4 years ... rather than, daily.

[daleanime]

34. Right, we all live in separate little kingdoms with no outside influences.

You do realize the the area affected the most by the flood of legalize bribery has been state and local elections, right?

But even if if we went with it, wouldn't your version of a political revolution also call for increased voter participation, not less? Are cries of "never, ever" really going to change anything?

There can be no start small, then expand later. We don't have the time for it and it leaves too much room for failure.

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. What are you talking about ... other than, providing a perfect example of my point?

There can be no start small, then expand later. We don't have the time for it and it leaves too much room for failure.

But even if if we went with it, wouldn't your version of a political revolution also call for increased voter participation, not less? Are cries of "never, ever" really going to change anything?

First, I have no version of a political revolution ... I seek sustained progressive change; not, flash in the pan, promises of magic.

Yes ... that increased voter participation comes from putting in the hard work everyday, rather than, showing up every 4 years. And, it is those people that do put in the hard work, that don't listen to cries of "never, ever", they work to be involved in the day to day political party mechanisms ... they are involved in building issue support at the local and state levels ... they identify and develop talent pools, at the local and state levels to communicate the issues ... they spend next to no effort tiring down "imperfect" Democratic candidates, and maybe even, strategically, support that "imperfect" candidate, while they focus on building their preferred candidate.

But ALL of that takes time, work and commitment.

[daleanime]

27. You can't start in any one place.....

it has to be everywhere. Including the top.

[navarth]

3. sadly agree.

[frizzled]

4. I wonder if it's realistically possible to expect reform

It is possible for political systems to be so corrupt that incremental change simply doesn't work. The only way out is revolutionary change.

I think any reforms will keep the US stuck in a local minimum. Like the ACA. Giving more people health insurance doesn't solve the problem that the health care system is basically corrupt and inefficient. It makes the insurers richer.

[cali]

6. I don't know, but it just can't be ignored anymore

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. I completely disagree ...

lasting societal change is slow and an on-going process.

[frizzled]

29. Historically, that isn't so.

Throughout history the only way to really change a system has been via revolution.

Now I'll admit many revolutions have not worked out that well - just ask the Chinese - but the point remains.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. That is historically incorrect ...

Cite to a single "revolution" that didn't just exchange one ruling class, for another.

[frizzled]

38. I think you're asking for a society that has no hierarchy.

There's no such thing and probably couldn't be.

[1StrongBlackMan]

44. No ...

I'm asking for sustained progressive improvements built upon solid a (though, imperfect) foundation ... not some fantastic "revolution", that history demonstrates, rarely works, or works out well for anyone, except the new ruling class.

[frizzled]

48. Hm, how'd the American Revolution go again?

nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. Very well for the landed aristocracy ...

for others, not so well.

[Arazi]

47. Same sex marriage. Birth control + the right to an abortion had huge revolutionary societal impact

In fact the "sexual revolution " of the 60s has had dramatic societal change for tremendous swaths of our population - women, lgbt etc.

Social revolutions can't be dismissed as irrelevant

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. And none of these social revolutions were top down ...

nor, did they occur suddenly.

[Arazi]

51. 46 years from Stonewall to marriage equality

A breathtakingly short time to dismantle the entire edifice of "family" structure.

It happened because people from the top, middle and bottom worked to create that change. ALL levels.

If we can transform our corrupt political system in 46 years I will be ecstatic but it will never happen until someone begins to agitate for it.

Thats starting now, with Bernie Sanders and his supporters from the top, middle and bottom.

I predict those who denigrate this movement as unrealistic will someday be seen as being as backwards as those who resisted marriage equality

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. From what I have read ...

and heard from some people in the LGBT community ... the "movement began long before stonewall.

[Arazi]

54. Then we're quibbling over years vs millennia

If you could start a movement today that would erase racism in 50 years, would you call that a "revolution", especially in light of the centuries of past discrimination? Hell, I would. History would call such a movement revolutionary.

[Arazi]

52. Women's reproductive control was transformed virtually overnight

With the introduction of the pill and legal abortion and sparked a revolution in women's rights that has arced across every socio-economic boundary (and continues today). Dramatic, transformative revolution that occurred over decades, smashing millennium of female disempowerment.

Seneca Falls in 1848 to full voting rights by 1920 - again a matter of decades to smashing centuries of female disenfranchisement.

These were as revolutionary as what Bernie Sanders is proposing and have absolutely required many people at the "top" to both succeed and be sustainable.

[HereSince1628]

46. Complex systems often have multiple stable nodes.

Change seems to require a push from the valley of one node over its entrapping peak.

But, In political life, these are not fixed mountain ranges, but flexible response surfaces. Regardless of the textured surface of a mattress that seems to define the rolling movement of marbles on its surface, all the marbles can fall into the gravity well made by a bowling ball set on a mattress.

What is needed is a large mass to coalesce that can deform the political landscape so that the marbles have no choice but to move toward the new stable node.

[Armstead]

7. Plain, simple and absolutely true

[cali]

24. We have to stop dancing around it.

[Skwmom]

11. Our media is deeply corrupt.

[abelenkpe]

31. Media needs to be broken up. nt

[libdem4life]

15. It must start from the top down...which is why I want Bernie for President.

I remember how lackluster the LGBT issue was...splintered, half-assed agree/disagree/play to whatever crowd that was handy etc.

Then PBO gave a national speech. I was so proud of him and ecstatic for my nieces. That Bully Pulpit address changed the issue forever. Not by itself, of course, and a lot of work had gone on already, but his stamp of approval empowered all the way down the line.

Economic issues like big money, which regulates more than we know, will not happen bottom up. And Bernie can't get it done in 8 years. But he can shift the energy and the attention, which then shifts action and resolve. At least we'll know which direction we're going...away from Oligarchy.

I fail to see how anyone but an Oligarchic Cheerleader can vote for more of the same. Don't mean to offend...JMO.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. I am not a member of the LGBT community; but, your top down ...

crediting President Obama for changing the issue forever, disrespects the millions of people in the LGBT community that were putting in the work ... everyday.

[libdem4life]

35. Sorry to disagree. He used his Bully Pulpit to honor and support those very people.

And yes, that issue is pretty much moot any more. And I do have a stake in this...two nieces are Lesbian. So save your lecture. PBO put the icing on the cake. There...does that make it better, because that was the intent of the post.

ETA: They are now in their 50s both went into the military because it was the least prejudiced agency at the time. Now one works in the government in DC, and the other is an Administrator of the University of Colorado. They lived through virtual hell...especially with RW parents.

[cantbeserious]

16. Know Thy Enemy - Oligarchs, Corporations, Banks And Their Media Minions And MIC Henchmen

eom

[leveymg]

17. Once an empire declines, it takes a while to crash. Sometimes, it bumps on the way down

But, the trajectory and end result are clear under President Hillary's reign. This one is really going to hurt.

[TIME TO PANIC]

23. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

Wake up America!

[HereSince1628]

28. As a kid I learned that enough is usually TOO MUCH!

The belief that 'enough is TOO MUCH!' seems more like the point of immediate departure for revolution than 'enough is enough'.

To me, the later seems rather more like 'now, cut that out!' statements which leave an implied and undefined 'or else' hanging in the future.

[TIME TO PANIC]

36. Are you saying "enough is enough" sounds too defensive rather than offensive?

Last edited Mon Feb 1, 2016, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

[HereSince1628]

41. I'm saying 'enough is enough' is just a warning.

It's a probe signalling a cup is full. Nothing bad has happened, you just have a full cup.

'Enough is too much' is an alarm that something bad has happened, and it's time to clean up the mess made when the cup has overflowed

[TIME TO PANIC]

45. I hear you, good point.

[randr]

30. Next step is to do something

I found an group that has promise.
https://represent.us

[EdwardBernays]

37. This is why

All of the "I'll support the party to the detriment of the country" posts are so deeply stupid and self-destructive.

People first, then party.

And when the party is ridiculously corrupt, which they both are, don't expect my loyalty as given.

I won't be scared into being loyal to corrupt politicians.

[amborin]

39. Gore Vidal on the 2 sides of the Money Party:

Quote by Gore Vidal : “There is only one party in the United ...
www.goodreads.com/.../598627-there-is-only-one-party-in-th...

Goodreads

Gore Vidal — 'There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat.'

[Enthusiast]

40. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

[cali]

43. Just strengthens the corrupt system

[treestar]

55. How? What money has changed hands directly for a vote?

You guys think you can just keep repeating accusations and accusing elected officials of this generality "corruption" and get everyone believing it. Who are you accusing of what? Nobody thinks fundraising for elections is "corrupt."

[cali]

57. Are you kidding? There have been many many many

examples of glaring conflict of interest posted. And the huge growth in inequality didn't just miraculously happen. I find your post very disturbing

[MisterP]

56. more importantly, that means there's BENEFICIARIES