Bernie Sanders black problem.....

[snagglepuss]

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[thereismore]

1. I have no doubt that very few AA would prefer Hillary to Bernie if they knew how the Clintons hurt

Last edited Tue Feb 2, 2016, 07:12 PM - Edit history (1)

the black community. The welfare "reform" and war on drugs, for example. The only question is, will they learn about it in time.

ADDED after the initial post: I was thinking about removing this post after talking to so many of you who got offended by my language, by something that you find implied in the original post (unchanged above). I have learned a few things in a hurry from some of you who instead of berating me actually tried to educate me. Thank you for that. I find my own language insensitive and content condescending to people of color. I understand how simply presuming what people of color are undergoing, experiencing, and processing, is NOT APPROPRIATE for a white guy. Please accept my apology.

[lunamagica]

2. Yeah, that poor black community has no idea what's good for them

Do you have any idea how insulting your post is?

[thereismore]

3. No, you are insulting me now. It's a question of information, not intellect. How dare you. nt

[lunamagica]

6. Why do you presume to know what they do or do not know?

Why do you presume they are ignorant?

Why, it your opinion, they need to "learn" how the Clintons have affected their lives?

[thereismore]

9. 1) Ignorant they are not. 2) They do not need to learn anything.

3) You need to learn manners.

4) I think (it is my right to think and speak, is it not?) that when anybody, especially people of color, learn what Clinton's policies did to the AA community, and when they learn that Bernie Sanders was actually arrested for protesting segregation on a college campus, they will choose Sanders. So can that fake outrage and shove it. Or not, as you wish. It's your right to accuse people of having unsavory presumptions. Bye.

[lunamagica]

16. Why do I need to learn manners?

For pointing out how insulting your post is?

If I'm wrong, why don't you go to the AA forum to enlighten them?

They need to learn, why not be so kind to go to the AA forum and teach them, before it is too late?

[thereismore]

19. Perhaps someone else could help you understand

[lunamagica]

23. No, don't waste your time on me. Go to the AA forum

Why did you ignore everything im my post?

Why don't you post your original reply in the AA forum, so they learn how bad the Clintons were to them?

[thereismore]

25. Good idea. I think I will. nt

[mythology]

22. You said that if blacks knew what you think about the Clintons

They wouldn't support Clinton. If you are saying that they aren't ignorant and don't need to learn anything, then I'm confused how you get from point A to point B.

Your first post fundamentally sounds exactly like you're saying they are uninformed. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it very much sounds like it.

[thereismore]

34. Let me explain:

I refuse to use the word "ignorant."

Here is what I mean: As people, including people of color, get to know Sanders, his support grows. I should not have to prove this to you but the history says it all: he goes from 3% to 50% in IA, and has been making progress everywhere, in all states, among all people, including people of color. That is a result of information getting to people.

My point was that her support among AA is not immovable and it is in fact crumbling as information keeps spreading. Lastly, I was wondering if there is enough time for this process to flip states like SC from Hillary to Sanders. THAT IS ALL.

I do not mean anything derogatory about people of color. Please! This is the 21st century, racism does not belong in the civilized world!!

[KingFlorez]

5. That is the main reason Sanders isn't going to win the black vote

His supporters are the sort of white liberals who feel the need to be incredibly condescending when it comes to black voters and black voters don't like that. We really do not need to be told what is good for us or who is the boogeyman, because we can decide for ourselves. Sanders can't just claim Clinton is racist and expect to win the black vote.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

7. Golly! They sound like such horrible people

you probably wouldn't want them joining your candidate in the GE.

[lunamagica]

8. The thing is, it's been months and months of AA members of DU patiently

explaining that this kind of condescension won't help them get followers.

But they go on and on and on...

Who wants to be talked about in that way?

[Autumn]

10. I see Hillary supporters make that claim but I have never seen

or heard Sanders ever claim that Clinton is racist.

[uponit7771]

12. +1

[thereismore]

14. I dam not claiming Clinton is racist!! Please. I am saying Clinton's policies disproportionally hurt

African Americans. My opinion.

[uponit7771]

26. Sanders stance on guns, jailing black men and his votes for the CFMA don't !??! The meme

... that Sanders can throw stones is a false one..

It's not reality

[thereismore]

28. Please explain how his "stance on guns" disproportionally affects AA. I don't think you have a case

with CFMA either.

[uponit7771]

32. CFMA is a recorded vote and so is his support of 90s tough on crime vote... His overall..

... stance on guns has hurt AA communities more than it has helped and his excuse that VT isn't Chi Town is weak and lazy at best

Reality matters MORE than how I feel or what you think.

[thereismore]

43. Nobody is perfect. Please see post #1.

[Goblinmonger]

20. So this is how you think Sanders supporters will rally behind Clinton?

I mean, if she gets the nomination like you think she will, do you really think that this kind of attitude is going to make me happy to support her? I would never vote against her, but this kind of rhetoric from her camp makes me consider more and more just not voting for President if she gets the nomination.

[KingFlorez]

30. Certainly not all his supporters are like that

I was responding to the idea that black voters need to "learn" before they vote. That post seemed quite condescending and that is what I was calling out.

[Goblinmonger]

51. Then you may want to work on your word choice.

His supporters are the sort of white liberals who feel the need to be incredibly condescending when it comes to black voters and black voters don't like that.

That doesn't sound like you are talking about the one person you are responding to. You are painting with a pretty broad brush.

[FrenchieCat]

44. Those Bernie Sanders folks will then have to do what they so choose....

and if they want hold their their vote for ransom in the general election, and choose to burn down the house in order to save it....than that means that this is their priority, as opposed to beating the GOP
....then so be it.

If they are interested in not allowing a GOP trifecta, which will include additions to the Supreme court that will negate many voting rights, civil rights, and destroy planned parenthood, make abortion illegal, etc., etc., etc..., then they will vote for the Democratic nominee, whomever that might be.

If its a hard sell for them to care more about the most vulnerable in our country at all cost as their goal, that just means that their real agenda is to teach a lesson by allowing the entire country (and the world) to be trashed! That is not a laudable goal.

[Goblinmonger]

50. Isn't that precious.

Clinton supporters can come on here and be as shitty as they want to Sanders supporters and make all kinds of claims that we are sexist and racist and all kinds of other things, and we just have to love Hillary if she wins the nomination. Otherwise we are Republican enablers. I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary. I hope she and her supporters have a better plan for the young that are overwhelmingly supporting Sanders. They are reluctant voters. They will likely not be as forgiving. And if Clinton and her supporters chase them off, that's on them.

[Number23]

27. Exactly. Well said.

[uponit7771]

11. wow... do you guys ever stop?! tia

[steve2470]

13. your post is really offensive, and I say this as a white Sanders supporter

I would delete your post to prevent further embarrassment to yourself. If you said this in the African-American forum you would be roundly denounced and banned, rightly so.

[Le Taz Hot]

37. As a white Bernie Sanders supporter

combatting ingrained racism that was pounded into my head, without my knowledge or consent, by the media and society is a constant battle. Constant. It's not the big things, not being a racist, that's easy. What's hard is battling the myriad of subtler forms that are inadvertent but there nonetheless. And this year I learned something from the Black Lives Matter movement. As white people, we need to take a seat on the issues of PoC because we don't know shit. What we need to do is sit down, shut up, listen, try to understand and offer support if/when it's wanted. That's our job.

[thereismore]

38. I think you are right. Bernie did just that with the BLM protesters.

Thank you.

[Blue_Tires]

40. And it's hot takes like this that make me want to defect to the Clinton camp...

Keep fucking around; there's still some more minority votes you can insult and alienate....

[oasis]

41. If Rep. John Lewis is unaware of how "the Clintons" (plural) hurt

the black community, you should notify him right away, because he's backing Hillary right now.

[FrenchieCat]

45. Well thank you sir....

means we must not have a single clue! Thank you for pointing Black folks to the light!

[thereismore]

49. I am guilty of presuming a lot. That wasn't right. I edited my original post. nt

[lovemydog]

46. Thank you for your edit.

It always stands out to me when someone listens and learns. It's enriching when we can improve our communication skills & treat one another with more respect. I applaud you for that. Hope you enjoy a good evening.

[thereismore]

48. Thank you! nt

[CajunBlazer]

15. If I were a Sanders' supporter I would ask you to self delete

And I say that with all sincerity.

Bernie has been trying to explain his position to minority voters and, with the states coming up after NH, I am sure he will try even harder.

But if the minorities in those states don't end up voting for him, let's assume that the reason isn't because they aren't smart enough to understand their self interest. They must have other reasons which they believe are valid.

To insinuate that they aren't bright would indicate that it is we who are out of touch with reality.

[thereismore]

18. Nobody is saying black people aren't bright but you. Please. Please please.

[Autumn]

21. Why does an OP of a video of a Black man giving his opinion about Bernie need to be deleted?

[mythology]

24. They were responding to post 1 which doesn't have a video

[Autumn]

29. The poster I responded to was responding to the OP, that was why I asked.

[angrychair]

17. No sure i agree

Its not as much condeceation as a failure to read the room, a tough task on a message board. The person was giving their thoughts, I personally don't think they were speaking out of malice or to act belittling toward anyone.
Even if they are ignorant of the issues, you only do that person a disserve to meet their ignorance with actual malice. If that divide is truly going to be fixed than conversations and questions are the only way to bridge it.

Anyone that identifies and is an actual liberal I would suspect has the best intentions in mind. Ignorance is your enemy, not the person.

[MrWendel]

31. "The Iowa electorate was overwhelmingly white but among those who weren't, Clinton won handily"

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/2/1478778/-The-Iowa-electorate-was-overwhelmingly-white-but-of-those-who-weren-t-Clinton-won-handily

[LittleBlue]

33. Feel like I'm watching the white southerners who vote against their own interests

The one thing that could truly transform the black community is free college education. Many have suggested it as a form of reparation.

Vote for more of the same. You get what you vote for.

[oasis]

42. Many of those white southerners had such a paternalistic attitude

towards blacks, they held the belief that they knew what was best for them. Don't see too much of that anymore.

[LittleBlue]

47. How is that logically any different to a paternalistic attitude toward

white southerners?

If we're free to outright state that the Democratic Party is far better than the GOP for blacks, it follows that we can make any judgement we want about who is best for whom.

[Uncle Joe]

35. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, snagglepuss.

[snagglepuss]

36. Heavens to Murgatroyd. Your welcome even. Snagglepuss is feelin the Bern!

[Uncle Joe]

39. Feelin the Bern!

[brush]

52. Although he looks somewhat like Ta-nehisi Coates this guy is not him

Last edited Wed Feb 3, 2016, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)