2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDoes anyone actually believe that your genetalia determine your political beliefs?
If not, then how is it an argument to say that "I am not establishment because I am a woman"?
I really didn't get that argument at all, and, as a woman, I find it offensive that I keep hearing it is my job to support Hillary so we can have the first woman President. Margaret Thatcher was the first woman PM in the UK. Was every woman in the UK expected to be excited about that? I bet they weren't.
I also found her closing remarks, which was a listing of separate groups, more divisive than Bernie's which brought us all together in solidarity to fight inequality.
onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)minimizes the struggles that women less powerful than her face every day. She just doesn't strike me as oppressed.
onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)glinda
(14,807 posts)She just screams and yells and gets really loud and talks non stop. I was saddened by that because I want any woman representing our Government to handle themselves differently. Strong but differently.
onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)She wouldn't do a fucking thing her corporate benefactors didn't pre approve. anyone who thinks differently is so lacking in common sense and doesn't live in the real world. I'm also amazed at the so called dems who don't care about all of the suffering because it's not them.
glinda
(14,807 posts)onecaliberal
(32,865 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)(or race or orientation, etc.) can influence their political beliefs.
Pretending otherwise assumes that people's experiences don't impact their lives.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)I'm a woman, ergo I can't be establishment. Then what is Carly Fiorina FFS? It is simply not a credible argument. It's also not credible to pretend she is not in a position of power in our society. She is in th elite and that's a fact.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,015 posts)All three strongly support Bernie.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Asking for a friend.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)A friend. Uh huh.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)Leaning Left or Right...
DanTex
(20,709 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)A member of a socio-economic class that is not a member of the lost-favored calss (i.e., someone who is a straight, white, cis-gendered mail) is not automatically not part of the establishment.
Condoleeza Rice, Phyllis Schafly, Clarence Thomas are all part of the "establishment" no matter what they look like on the outside.
Hillary Clinton is part of the establishment. She has benefited from it and defends it.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Of course, Bernie is also part of the establishment, being in the senate. Compared to, say, me, both of them are highly establishment.
But being a woman also makes her an outsider in a very meaningful sense. Women have traditionally, and to this day, been denied the highest ranks of power. I don't see it as totally separate.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)Establishment means benefiting from and supporting the current hegemony. She does both.
Under your criteria, Clarence Thomas also fits as non-establishment because Blacks have also been shut out of the "highest ranks of power." Riiiiiight. And what about Bernie being Jewish?
Plumbing doesn't define where you stand on supporting the distribution of power that already exists. Your personal actions and principles do. By that criteria, some who thinks our system essentially works but is wiling to make tweaks around the edges is establishment (particularly when that someone is a millionaire and is included in the highest levels of political decision making in this country), and someone who says it doesn't work for most of us and we need radical change isn't.
Call me when she gets turned down from participating in Davos or can't get into the Rainbow Room. Then we can discuss if she is not longer "establishment."
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Personally, I hope Elizabeth Warren is our first female president.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)You can be anti-establishment left or anti-establishment-right. Or you can be pro-establishment with left or right leanings. Establishment is about the status quo of power.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)I am a woman therefore I can't be establishment is not a defensible position.
If it were, let's all vote for Carly Fiorina!