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flpoljunkie

(26,184 posts)
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 08:26 AM Feb 2016

Bernie's repeated finger wagging last night reminded me of this I recently read in The Nation

Why this Socialist Feminist is for Hillary

by Suzanna Danuta Walters

At first glance, you’d probably guess that I would proudly don a “Feel the Bern” T-shirt and make a generous donation to the democratic socialist firing up the Democratic Party. Born to leftists themselves born to leftists, I am what is known in some circles as a “red-diaper baby.”

My immigrant Jewish grandparents met in New York City, at a meeting of the Young People’s Socialist League on the Lower East Side, and I grew up more familiar with the words to labor anthems than to those of “The Star-Spangled Banner.” My mother was an activist in the civil-rights movement who later engaged with feminism, antiwar activism, and the vast panoply of progressive issues that ebbed and flowed through our national politics over the past half-century.

In other words, I come by my democratic socialism organically and deeply. And truth be told, I am not immune to the gruff charms of Bernie, which are as familiar to me as the radical Passover seders that punctuated my childhood. His sharp critiques of wealth inequality and unfettered corporate control of the political process were articles of faith at my own family’s dinner-table debates. And his Brooklyn cadence and pedantic self-righteousness remind me of… everyone I knew growing up.

For those of us on the left, the pressure to join the Bernie Express is intense. Friends and colleagues, casual Facebook acquaintances and lifelong political allies alike, all throw up their hands in despair or sneer in disgust if you don’t pledge allegiance to the candidate whose strength and broad appeal in the primary has been both surprising and energizing to progressives used to “holding our noses” and voting for the lesser of two evils. Never mind that I will gladly vote and work for Bernie if he is the nominee, and I applaud the way he has pushed Hillary to the left. For refusing to back Bernie in the primary, I’m a dupe and a traitor; I’m a tool of (take your pick) imperialist, war-mongering, militaristic, in-the-pocket-of-Wall-Street corporate hacks.

more...

http://www.thenation.com/article/why-this-socialist-feminist-is-for-hillary/


61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie's repeated finger wagging last night reminded me of this I recently read in The Nation (Original Post) flpoljunkie Feb 2016 OP
Jonathan Capehart called it "jazz hands". nt LexVegas Feb 2016 #1
Ha!! :-D NurseJackie Feb 2016 #3
Chris Matthews said it looked like he was calling for a waiter. nt LexVegas Feb 2016 #4
hahahaha workinclasszero Feb 2016 #37
LOL! Dawson Leery Feb 2016 #52
Mathews is always thinking about food scscholar Feb 2016 #56
Oh!!!!!!!!!! bravenak Feb 2016 #26
Yeah, he was being a little shit about it. I got the impression that WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2016 #41
Yes, talks with his hands -- but tells the truth. senz Feb 2016 #47
K&R! stonecutter357 Feb 2016 #2
Excellent article!! handmade34 Feb 2016 #5
Bernie's demeanor bothers some people, Hillary's voice drives me nuts. Vinca Feb 2016 #6
Her voice? What do you mean? Why is it we never complaints about men's voices? flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #9
Who's Ray Romono? pinebox Feb 2016 #11
Is he a male politician running for the highest office in the land? flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #17
Ohhhh you said men's voices, not a presidential candidate XD pinebox Feb 2016 #20
George W Bush nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #45
???? I'd complain about a man's voice, too, if it drove me crazy. Vinca Feb 2016 #14
So it's okay for Sanders finger wagging to bother people but not okay for Hillary's voice to liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #28
If Jerry Seinfeld sat at the table next to mine in a restaurant... cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #44
Well, often we do. Orsino Feb 2016 #58
I have relabeled my remote control's MUTE button to HILLARY / FlatBaroque Feb 2016 #12
Now that's sexist. flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #19
Now that's ridiculous. sammythecat Feb 2016 #32
I can't stand her voice either. I'm a woman. It's not because she's a woman. Arugula Latte Feb 2016 #25
I knew I wasn't alone. Vinca Feb 2016 #39
You're so right. Those "ah"s gets on my nerves too. Arugula Latte Feb 2016 #40
I have to admit, he does sound like Larry David and that makes me smile. Vinca Feb 2016 #42
Reminds me of Underdog Politicalboi Feb 2016 #55
Interesting article. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #7
The author doesn't see Bernie able to get his 'redistributive economic policies' thru Congress flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #8
He wagged his finger? Really? That's all you've got? nichomachus Feb 2016 #10
+1 - Excellent! fleur-de-lisa Feb 2016 #15
Perhaps you did not read the linked article from the nation. flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #16
It was boiled down upthread. frylock Feb 2016 #35
nice try olddots Feb 2016 #13
Keep giving the finger, Bernie. bigwillq Feb 2016 #18
What you said! farleftlib Feb 2016 #21
no we can't - no we can't - no we can't SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #22
'No, we can't elect a Democratic Socialist'? flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #23
LOL SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #24
That all you got? flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #34
oh no the dreadful finger wagging Truprogressive85 Feb 2016 #27
K N R Faux pas Feb 2016 #29
When you can't attack the issues, GET PETTY! valerief Feb 2016 #30
Tell that to the female socialist who wrote the article in the Nation. flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #33
She's voting for Hillary because woman president. frylock Feb 2016 #36
Okay, got it mikehiggins Feb 2016 #31
Any woman who dares to admit BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #38
Good question, BlueMTexpat. flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #43
Really? And here I thought us Bernie women were "going to hell." senz Feb 2016 #46
Excuse me but this woman has had that experience at the hands of HRC supporters nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #48
nadin - I have never belittled BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #49
I am just talking from my experience here nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #51
I concur! BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #53
and any woman who does not support Hillary is accused of sexism. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #59
I really had left this thread, BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #60
good be gone. In fact, be on my ignore list. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #61
And Hillary's constant eye rolling & condescending tone reminded me of my daughter when she was a jillan Feb 2016 #50
The split screen made it more evident. Beacool Feb 2016 #54
Yes, it was very distracting, as well. flpoljunkie Feb 2016 #57
 

WhaTHellsgoingonhere

(5,252 posts)
41. Yeah, he was being a little shit about it. I got the impression that
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:32 PM
Feb 2016

It was one of those, "He's definitely not someone I want to have a beer with, I'm voting for Hillary" things. No poker face, there lol

I was put off by it, but that was team Hillary.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
45. George W Bush
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:01 PM
Feb 2016

there I fixed it for you.

Listening to Dubya is like listening to chalk on the board.

And if HRC becomes president I will do with her speeches the same thing I did with Dubya at the end... READ THEM!

Anyhoo, it is getting to the point I prefer to read them, no matter how pleasant or unpleasant of a voice they have.

Vinca

(50,303 posts)
14. ???? I'd complain about a man's voice, too, if it drove me crazy.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:49 PM
Feb 2016

Why does everything translate as sexist? Can't people just generically annoy?

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
28. So it's okay for Sanders finger wagging to bother people but not okay for Hillary's voice to
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:14 PM
Feb 2016

bother people? Geez. I am a woman and I am so damn tired of all the sexism accusations.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
44. If Jerry Seinfeld sat at the table next to mine in a restaurant...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:59 PM
Feb 2016

there is NO WAY I could enjoy my meal.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
58. Well, often we do.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:00 PM
Feb 2016

Trump's and Cruz', for me, especially.

Clinton's too, though I hope that isn't influencing me.

sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
32. Now that's ridiculous.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:31 PM
Feb 2016

I don't like Carly Fiorina but never gave her voice a second's thought. Some people have pleasing voices, some not. The first word out of Sarah Palin's mouth makes me cringe. Hillary's voice is fine when she's calm, when angry or excited, I all of a sudden start thinking of the sound of her voice. It can get irritating. I thought the very same thing twenty years ago when I was a big fan of hers.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
25. I can't stand her voice either. I'm a woman. It's not because she's a woman.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:12 PM
Feb 2016

There are male voices that drive me nuts too. I can't listen to Trump (not just his stupid, offensive content, but his voice itself).

Sorry, but there are certain people who have accents, inflections, and cadences that are highly annoying to me, and Hillary is one of them. Specifically, the highly exaggerated upper Midwest "a" sounds as in "aaaapple." Ugh. It's just grating. There are certain Texas accents I despise, too, like Phil Gramm's. Gawd, that is a bad one.

Vinca

(50,303 posts)
39. I knew I wasn't alone.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:19 PM
Feb 2016

To make it worse she interjects "ah" between every third or fourth word. I've had to stop watching the debates and if she comes on I change the channel.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
40. You're so right. Those "ah"s gets on my nerves too.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 03:26 PM
Feb 2016

Bernie's accent is certainly "different," too, for anyone not from Brooklyn, but it doesn't annoy me. If anything I find it sort of amusing. It reminds me of some cartoon character from my childhood, but I can't quite put a finger on which one.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
55. Reminds me of Underdog
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:44 PM
Feb 2016

Not the character himself. Wally Cox sounds nothing like Bernie. But I remember someone calling to Underdog with that heavy accent.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
7. Interesting article.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:13 AM
Feb 2016
 Still, I support her less for her specific political positions (some of which I agree with, many of which I do not—all of which are far superior to the racist/sexist/xenophobic sideshow that is the Republican primary field) than for the iconic value of electing the first woman president of the United States.


A big long essay that distills down to I'm voting for her because she's a woman, wrapped up in a lot of but I swear, I wouldn't vote for Palin or Bachmann arguments.

so no, you're not

For refusing to back Bernie in the primary, I’m a dupe and a traitor; I’m a tool of (take your pick) imperialist, war-mongering, militaristic, in-the-pocket-of-Wall-Street corporate hacks.


you're simply one of the voters who is voting for her because she's a woman, which is a different part of the Hillary coalition.

flpoljunkie

(26,184 posts)
8. The author doesn't see Bernie able to get his 'redistributive economic policies' thru Congress
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:41 AM
Feb 2016

This is a very pragmatic reason for the author to support Hillary and not Bernie--the practical matter of his electability--while noting Hillary shares the leftist agenda for women and would be in a position to carry it out in the Oval Office as the first woman President.

She concludes...

It’s unlikely that Bernie’s redistributive economic policies, admirable as they are, would ever make their way through Congress. How is a leftist agenda that remains little more than a vision better for women than actually having a woman (who has, don’t forget, an agenda that shares much in common with this vision)—after all these years—in the Oval Office?

Hillary as president will not usher in a profound realignment of US priorities and politics. No electable mainstream candidate will do that—see Obama’s legacy if you have any doubts. But she just might help us remember that “feminist” isn’t an epithet; it’s a badge of honor.

http://www.thenation.com/article/why-this-socialist-feminist-is-for-hillary/

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
10. He wagged his finger? Really? That's all you've got?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:44 AM
Feb 2016

Sounds like Camp Hillary has filled the swimming pool with weak sauce.

I would much rather someone wag their finger than topple a democratically elected government or two -- but that's just me.

flpoljunkie

(26,184 posts)
16. Perhaps you did not read the linked article from the nation.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 12:59 PM
Feb 2016

You might try reading it, if you have not.

flpoljunkie

(26,184 posts)
23. 'No, we can't elect a Democratic Socialist'?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:01 PM
Feb 2016

The Republicans are salivating at the prospect of running the ads which say Bernie wants to 'give people free stuff and raise your taxes to pay for it.'

Yes, they will--run these ads.

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
31. Okay, got it
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:31 PM
Feb 2016

Here’s why: I want a woman president—and, no, not any woman president. Hillary is not, as her detractors would have it, Margaret Thatcher or Carly Fiorina—or Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann, or some other female candidate whose platform rests on antipathy to any feminist concerns. Like most in the Democratic Party, she is a centrist. In her political orientation, deep intelligence, and policy wonkishness, she is similar to Obama—and not as dissimilar to Bernie as one might imagine. Still, I support her less for her specific political positions (some of which I agree with, many of which I do not—all of which are far superior to the racist/sexist/xenophobic sideshow that is the Republican primary field) than for the iconic value of electing the first woman president of the United States.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess that's a legitimate position, though one I don't share.

I oppose HRC because of who she is and what she supports, not what she is.

The voters will decide.

BlueMTexpat

(15,373 posts)
38. Any woman who dares to admit
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:53 PM
Feb 2016

that she does not "feel the Bern" is instantly discredited or belittled by whatever means possible.

How is this treatment any different from that of RW GOPers?

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
46. Really? And here I thought us Bernie women were "going to hell."
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:05 PM
Feb 2016

And our younger Bernie sisters are just trying to find boys.

That's what Hillary women tell us.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
48. Excuse me but this woman has had that experience at the hands of HRC supporters
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:17 PM
Feb 2016

and I have yet to say who I intend to vote for.

So thanks for the laugh.

BlueMTexpat

(15,373 posts)
49. nadin - I have never belittled
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:31 PM
Feb 2016

or dissed you! I have been an admirer. So please don't class me with anyone who does.

But when you look at the swarms of reaction against PP, NARAL, and nearly any woman of standing who has declared for Hillary Clinton, a reaction or two from an occasional HRC supporter is not even in the same ballpark.

It is truly frightening and does represent a tyranny from the left that is every bit as bad as the tyranny of the right.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
51. I am just talking from my experience here
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:33 PM
Feb 2016

and the fact that this makes me laugh.

And my experience is one that either makes you laugh (I do often) or cry.

And a tad of self reflection is in order for this board. In fact the same people who have done that, are still at it.

BlueMTexpat

(15,373 posts)
60. I really had left this thread,
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:13 PM
Feb 2016

but this comment brought me back.

I personally have never accused any woman who does not support Hillary of sexism, so pul-eeze stop with that crap.

What I have said is that sexism is a factor in why some (including women among the some) are loathe to support her, no matter how they characterize their reasons for non-support. That is simply not incorrect, whether the non-supporters themselves are self-aware enough to realize that or not.

Now I AM gone.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
50. And Hillary's constant eye rolling & condescending tone reminded me of my daughter when she was a
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:32 PM
Feb 2016

teenager.

Beacool

(30,251 posts)
54. The split screen made it more evident.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:41 PM
Feb 2016

Sanders would be almost jumping out of his skin, mumbling something, as his finger would wag faster than a windshield wiper. He reminded me of the cranky elderly guy at my church who disagrees about every proposal at council meetings. At first I found it annoying, after a while it was almost funny.

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