2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)David Brock is childs play compared to what the Republicans will bring. Karl Rove will eat him alive . This is one of the reasons I support Hillary Clinton. She is a fighter who has a history of standing up and beating Republicans. She's a fighter. I can't believe Sanders is whining about Brock. Is he serious?
democrank
(11,112 posts)In Brock`s past life, when he was playing dirty tricks against Democrats, did you call their responses to him...whining?
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Media Matters has been a godsend in countering the lies of right wing media like Fox News. People conviently forget what he has down for our community after he turned to the good side.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)He's a professional smear merchant.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)MuseRider
(34,135 posts)NOT MY SIDE!
Proud it is not my side.
Thank you Betty.
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)But nothing but a dirty slimeball who should be discredited for good.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)No sorry he isn't. He is on the same side and always has been, wherever the money goes, Brock smears follow. A tiger doesn't change its stripes
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Hell, I'm also happy Goldman Sachs is on "our" side! And Monsanto! And Saudi Arabia! Also Henry Kissinger! And billionaires galore - Bloomberg's got our back if the commies should take over the party! All on OUR side! Powerful allies! Hooray! Go, Brock! Beat Rove! We can win the championship! GO OUR SIDE!!!
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)Are you OK?
Hydra
(14,459 posts)R B Garr
(16,994 posts)with his bringing up Kissinger and now Brock. That's all internet flame war idiocy. Most people aren't going to give a crap about what a 90-something-year-old used to do and now what some generally obscure backstory figure used to do.
I'm surprised at the conspiracy theory, internet-fueled nothingness of Sanders "concerns". Wonder how many blogs he posts to, lol.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Internet fueled conspiracies. Speaking as an informed Democrat and mother of two boys, yes, their background is an issue to me. HRC attaching herself to them, is a greater concern for me as a party member. And any fellow democrat dismissing it, makes me call in to question their true standing within the party.
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)How self-serving. But typical. I also question yours if you think that the Republicans aren't going to attack Democrats mercilessly, so by all means, let's pick the lambs who are the least effective.
Clinton explained her interest in Kissinger in a few short sentences. You do realize that few people have the luxury of hating on their predecessors in any job or in any type of professional setting. Only truly out of touch or unaccountable people can diss former employers or acquaintances and most people know that and understand that. I doubt you are teaching your boys to curse and spit on people with whom they disagree. Lots of people here encourage that kind of behavior against your political enemies, but that's not reality and most people know that. It's a luxury few people could afford to do, but it sure sounds good on the internet.
And your response is full of morality, which is another hallmark of the Sanders responses. lol.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Don't sugar coat it. Don't gloss over what she is. If you support her, embrace all the ugly that she is. Including the Iraq War and all thst follows. Big money included. I don't give two shits how dirty the republicans hands get. I do care how dirty my candidate is, and whether they're calling it out. I don't support a republican in a blue coat, but you feel free. Because that is exactly what she is. Enjoy.
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)That's what I meant about Sanders mostly using BenieFan INTERNET-fueled talking points. The man is 92-YEARS-OLD. She explained why she was interested in his viewpoints.
Most people aren't going to care about these INTERNET flame wars.
And yet more superiority in your post, although we hear these are the "issues". LOL,
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)You know, one of those things with a binding and printed pages?
Do you have any idea whom you are talking about?
Shameful.
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)He said that on This Week with George Stephanopolous a couple weeks ago.
SHAMEFUL! Spread the word....
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)You have no idea who Henry Kissinger is, do you? Or if you do, you don't care.
And why should you, when you take Brock as a worthy man of talents. A specialist!
What does any of it matter then?
The only question is, since you so obviously think values are principles are a joke either way, and all that matters is winning: why do you care if it's a D or an R? Are you getting a salary? Because that's the only explanation.
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)with George Stephanopolous and he named the person and I even looked it up. You are free to use your Google to look it up.
Face it, your only responses to me are that I should be ashamed. Morality and shame, lol, that's all these responses are . Oh, and I must be "paid".
I didn't say positive things about Brock or Kissinger. I said these are INTERNET-fueled talking points, which they are. Most of the talking points about this lead back to internet flame wars. That pretty much says it all.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)And that's how it is until you provide the link to back up your claim. (It may or may not be true, it may or may not be relevant.) Anyone making a claim can provide the link. You say you looked it up, provide the link! I am not making the claim, I do not have to provide the link. You have no basis for being sarcastic or smarmy about this.
Correct, I care about ethics, values and principles, and you self-evidently do not. Not just your embrace of the mercenary operator Brock, but your justification of why say that.
And I find it highly unlikely that you know anything about the history of this country or would care if you did. Did you ever read a history book?
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)It think it was also posted here. You can find it with a couple searches. What's funny is that if I posted it, you would just continue in this tactic of insulting me and insisting you are superior. And this is passed off as a discussion of "issues."
I have to now just giggle at your self-reverence. Enjoy yourself.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)There probably is a name, but what's more interesting is that you still don't know it. You make this claim without being able to back it up, and you seem to think that making this claim without a name somehow justifies anything you have to say. This is embarrassing for you. Withdraw for your own good.
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)If you can't find it with all I gave you, you obviously have other motives for continuing to badger me. This is now completely off topic, but it does illustrate that these things are just internet flame wars. That was my initial point.
Oh, and I bet when you find him, you'll come up with all kinds of things that we're all supposed to take "in context" for how Bernie intends the information from this source. But if Hillary uses a source, it's just a matter of Good vs. Evil. She was in a picture with so-and-so.....Evil!
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)No conscience. I can see how that person supports hrc
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)That's what I mean that this is all internet flame wars. Considering that Sanders has said he would consult with a former Reagan advisor, it's OBVIOUS that people are aware that some understanding of prior administrations and the thought processes of their decision making are necessary to fully understand America's position at that time, wrong or not.
But do continue to tell me how much better you are and how unworthy I am. LOL.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)You make the claim, you back it up. That's how it works.
For example, I heard on a non-existent program that Hillary Clinton is the former head of Goldman Sachs. I saw it on a program, I did! What, are you too lazy to google it? I already gave you enough.
It's very simple. You provide the evidence for YOUR claim or you withdraw it and shut up. I am not responsible for checking anything on the basis of statements from you like, "I remember seeing it so it's true!"
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)Google it. There are threads here also about Sanders foreign policy advisors. If I told you to put up or shut up, my post would be hidden. Hmmm. It's hard to believe you are a Sanders supporter and don't know his foreign policy "advisors".
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)R B Garr
(16,994 posts).....thanks.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)substantiating your claims... your choice
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)C'mon. Bernie Sanders fans should know what he has said about his foreign policy advisors. There were even threads here about. it.
Like I care what you think about my "ideas". It's obvious that this is about your version of Good vs. Evil, with everything I say being "evil." It's just silly to spend more time, gotta go.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)By David Corn | Fri Feb. 12, 2016 6:32 PM EST
...snip
What Clinton did not mention was that her bond with Kissinger was personal as well as professional, as she and her husband have for years regularly spent their winter holidays with Kissinger and his wife, Nancy, at the beachfront villa of fashion designer Oscar de la Renta, who died in 2014, and his wife, Annette, in the Dominican Republic.
...snip
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/hillary-clinton-kissinger-vacation-dominican-republic-de-la-renta
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)is incredibly important....
here...learn something..
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)with me being evil, of course, because I can see why current politicians would want to understand the decision making of their predecessors.
There is nothing to be learned except that you searched on the internet for edited clips that fit your needs.
Clinton was clear in a few sentences why she was interested in Kissinger's viewpoints. Even Sanders has said he would consult with a Reagan foreign policy advisor, so obviously there is a need to have a nuanced understanding of others' views.
Like I said, this is mostly material for internet flame warriors. Most people don't have the luxury of behaving like internet flame warriors in real life, especially if they have a position of standing in the world. That is a position for people who are unaccountable and... anonymous.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)You just want the last word, and you'll have to reply to me to get it.
You write nothing of any substance. Just blowing a lot of noise in a feeble attempt to hijack somebody else's OP.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)And that Kissinger conspired to keep that going and is thus responsible for most of that murder? Next you'll tell me he wanted to have a democratically elected government in Chile overthrown, or met with the Indonesian dictator the day before he invaded East Timor.
Internet-fueled conspiracy theory! These people are heroes! Nobel Laureates! Feminist establishment! Good solid business folk!
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)Now you are saying they are heroes. That's not what was said, but it does sound good on the internet for the internet flame wars. Which was my original point.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Speaking of wasting my precious time. Do you get anything? Does it need the "sarcasm for morons" tag?
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)Sniffle.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It's not really an insult if it fits. You are incapable of representing your case, yet you keep coming back oblivious, like the Black Knight.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)R B Garr
(16,994 posts)AOR
(692 posts)and Brock's history as a "former" right-wing scumbag and enemy of the left is "conspiracy theory"
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)it gets them riled up. Most people in real life aren't going to hunt down 40 year old clips to post on the internet, and they don't care who wins internet fights. That's why I said it's surprising his message is targeted mostly to the internet mongers. Most of these Googled "issues" lead back to internet fights.
LMAO.
Bored with the Good vs. Evil theater, but good show.
AOR
(692 posts)Kissinger is a war criminal responsible for immense death and destruction. People should know that truth. People should also know the truth that a right-wing scumbag bottom feeder like Brock is feeding the Clinton slime machine puppets and race-baiters with daily right wing talking points all over the net.
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)spin it. That's politics, and people know that. LOL, just look at your post as an example of that:
"war criminal"
"immense death and destruction"
"scumbag bottom feeder"
"slime machine puppets"
"race-baiters"
The reason I pointed out your own words is Clinton said she is interested mostly in Kissinger's views on CHINA relations, which makes a lot of sense. Every predecessor has areas of expertise or experience, wrong or right, which provide insight into America's position at the time.
Besides, Sanders has said all options are on the table, so he is not anti-war. He also won't end the drone program. It's all spin, and most people know that.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)All "truth" is just how well you can spin it. This is why David Brock is a hero and thank god he's on "our" side.
Seriously, why do you CARE who wins? This is why I suggested before that you should be getting a salary or have some other interest, because otherwise there is no reason whatsoever for you to care. Truth does not matter, ethics do not matter, what actually happened, who did what, who murdered whom, none of that matters. It's just spin vs. spin. So I hope you have some incentive, for your sake.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)AOR
(692 posts)is historical reality. It does not call for a sales job once anyone takes even a cursory glance of the facts. Of course you are correct that Brock being a scumbag bottom feeder is open to subjective opinion. Many however share that opinion.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)He's bottom-feeding scum, and HRC put him in charge of her super PAC.
PoliticalMalcontent
(449 posts)It's not surprising though. She's a win-at-all-costs candidate.
I'm not sure that's what people are looking for this election.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)I think she came up with that one on her own.
ejbr
(5,856 posts)about "artful smears". While she hires someone gifted in same? Bernie won't point out her hypocrisy, but Trump will demolish her both in attacks and then her kvetching about things for which she cannot answer, but will label as an artful smear all while doing same.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)She's already exhausting the socialist angle, so thanks for that opportunity to defang that angle of attack at least.
What history does she have of beating republicans? She only ran and got elected to office twice?
I suppose you could say she has a history of losing to Democrats...
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)Rove has been involved from day one.
He's the puppet master but Bernie has
"no strings attached".
dubyadiprecession
(5,725 posts)waving his hands like a puppet in the debate. Kind of like a woody allen character, wanting to say" can i..can i.. interject?..can i.. can i..just say..i". The Republicans are going to give this naive man a heart attack!!
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)VT is not the moon, y'know..... even tho' the GOP would have you think so.
Sanders has been working in the same room with the GOP for decades. What makes you think he's naive?
What makes you think Hillary can survive better. She lost the last primary, and she's never had to deal with them as an elected official any higher than Sanders.
greymouse
(872 posts)Is that the Bosnia sniper fire you're talking about, dubyadiprecession?
tazkcmo
(7,303 posts)The Clinton's are under constant fire due to their own actions. Sanders is not, also due to his own actions. That's a plus in my book. As for being able to handle the GOP attacks, he's got a track record of winning that leaves HRC with campaign envy.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)DUzy!
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)She is scum to me for for that lie.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Apparently liberals are already giving her a heart attack. As evident by her win at all costs agenda.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)greymouse
(872 posts)and getting up with fleas.
Any moral person would be disgusted by Hillary's descent into the mud. It is totally in character with her, however, and yet another reason I will never vote for her. Lying, smearing, it's all one to Hill.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)"...whining about Brock"?!?
Are YOU serious?!?
Wow. As I recall, David Brock was the cretin who smeared Anita Hill and helped install one of the WORST SCOTUS Justices ever in our history!
I'm with Bernie on this one, too. But, you keep applauding Hi11ary's team. I think it says a lot about HER and a lot about her supporters that now, when Brock is on her team, he's one of the good guys.
Broward
(1,976 posts)then that would indicate that he handled Clinton just fine.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Bernie was specifically asked about Brock's smear. Bernie succinctly explained who Brock is, the smears he is known for, and expressed surprise that Clinton would hire an extreme rightwing attack dog known for outright lies and smears.
He responded perfectly to the question.
NJCher
(35,764 posts)That much is clear by your post.
If you understood ethos, you would see that your post makes no sense. In fact, right now this is unfolding, but you still haven't connected the dots. The more they attack Bernie using underhanded methods like the kind Brock comes up with, the stronger it makes Bernie.
Bernie doesn't understand her choices, and the reason he says he doesn't understand them is that Bernie is operating from ethos.
The same thing will happen with the Republicans.
You and most of the rest of us have never seen what happens when there is a political candidate whose basis is ethos. That is because our system weeds them out. Bernie is one of very few people who could both navigate the system and maintain his own integrity.
I personally know only one person who has maintained a long-time career in business operating from ethos. It is formidable, and given what I see of the Clinton and the republican candidates, they will be unable to overcome it.
Cher
NJCher
(35,764 posts)This is an article of comments made up from around the web:
Folks who have identified as Republicans for years have made the switch, citing Bernies honesty, integrity, and unwavering stance on issues.
See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511237382
Read more at the link cited in the OP. This will give a bit of an understanding on how ethos works and why people like Clinton or any of the Republicans will be unable to overcome it.
Cher
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)been using Karl Rovian tactics...I can see you DEFEND the use of those tactics, counting on the fact that the only good guy (your Hillary is NOT A GOODX PERSON) while you think you'll get away with bullshit is quite telling. In fact, it exposes as the mentality among Hillary supporters.
You don't seem to give a shit about the electorate or the issues. The only thing you think that will work for you is parroting GOP and start mudslining as if you were still in grade school or kindergarten.
But Bernie won't take the bait. Even though many of you Hillary supporters have wet dreams about him taking your bait.
But take if from someone who's been around the block a few times.
Hillary is a whiner and not a fighter. She stands 11 hours against republicans, and feels as attacking money in politics, legalized bribery is an "artful smear" against her. But then again, we know the lack of masculinity among repubicans, in which they are trying to over compensate.
She is an egomaniac and a compulsive liar who uses the same tactics as her FELLOW republicans have been using since Reagan.
Sorry. It won't work anymore Clinton and OTHER republicans!
The days of your smear machine are over. And I can literally smell the fear from Hillary and GOP!
We live in the internet age, and your lies and destortions will quickly be shut down.
We came, we bombed, they drowned... HAHAHAHAHAH
Avalux
(35,015 posts)If you don't think Bernie is a fighter you haven't been paying attention. Maybe it's because you spend your time disparaging him and defending assholes like Brock.
frylock
(34,825 posts)democrank
(11,112 posts)Look what she did to Barack Obama when she ran against them. It`s called win at all costs.
mdbl
(4,976 posts)Since I thought Media Matters was supposed to expose tactics akin to what he is doing now. Supposedly, his atonement for all the crap and lies he used to feed to Rush lumpballs every day during the first Bush presidency. If you don't know about it, read his book "Blinded by the Right" where he explains it all in nauseating detail.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)They would get one "journalist" to do an article without researching it, then on the other side of the country an article would be written BASED ON THE FIRST WITH NO RESEARCH and then the whole pack would start jumping up and down OVER FAKE STUFF because EVERYONE WAS TALKING ABOUT IT.
Sound a little familiar? Sigh.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)sounds like a very worthwhile read. thanks.
corkhead
(6,119 posts)Brock doesn't need to make any more money than he has for being a scumbag.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)delrem
(9,688 posts)Reciting a variation Hillary's mantra "If the Republicans do it, then it's OK!"
So it'll be good practice because Brock is certainly using the sleaziest Republican swiftboating ratfuckery in an attempt to bring our perception of Bernie Sanders down to his employer's abysmal level. Like the Republican goon squads did to Kerry, so as to elect a warmongering chickenhawk.
So point made: Brock's sleazy tactics have worked in GEs, and perhaps they'll work when pushed by Dems against Dems. It's obviously what Hillary Clinton is counting on, but it isn't proven yet. This is a first.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Bernie is reaching new voters who do not trust (justifiably so!) traditional politicians or M$M.
David Brock's last swiftboating attack has already been successfully defeated and The "journalist" behind it has been publically exposed as a partisan lying hack.
I think Bernie mentioning he is shocked by the depths Hillary is willing to go to, as evidenced by her sleazy hires, is actually a position of strength. He knows his supporters can shut down these cheap attacks. Pointing out that Hillary is hiring sleazy swiftboaters is a positive for him. Older Dems remember the swiftboating of Kerry, and were furious about it. Tying Hillary to THAT type crap is only going to help him with them!
Laughing Mirror
(4,185 posts)Selecting Brock as head of her Superpac just shows her true colors.
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brock
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)as it appears this case implies, what do you do? Do you forgive, forget, and make a note of that person's name and location so that you can later go back and team up with him/her in order to do some mud slinging of your own? I wonder...
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Obviously he was not going to extend a congratulatory statement to Mr. David Brock for being an asshole. Though as a parent he does have concern what kind of bad crowd some might be hanging around with. To me, this is an example of the true to form of love your enemy, the guy is genuine, he pretty much don't know no other way to be.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)You can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep. Birds of a feather flock together.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)"Bernie has never been under fire like Hillary".
Nope, no Bosnian snipers ever pinned him down on an airport tarmac.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... to not be astounded by the depths people like the Clintons will sink to.
madokie
(51,076 posts)she all but rolled out those big ol crocodile tears at the last debate about Bernie attacking her by just pointing out the differences in the two and doing it by using Facts.
All Hillary cares about is her and her winning the whitehouse. She'll never be President, simple as that.
thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...the head of a Super PAC which coordinates with Hillary Clinton.
Tapper notes that Brock said since there aren't a lot of blacks in the Sanders' TV ad "America," that means "black lives don't matter much to Bernie Sanders."
Sanders replies that Brock is an attack dog who used to be a right-wing attack dog, and admits he lied about Anita Hill.
Sanders says he's "astounded" that Hillary Clinton would hire someone like that.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)is in a position to criticize...
cali
(114,904 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)like Corzine and Yanukovich...
I'm just sayin'...
cali
(114,904 posts)Don't know who the other guy is. No links of course and typical hill supporter false equivalency crap.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)1. I'm actually supporting Sanders, so unless you want me to start supporting Clinton instead you will kindly watch your fucking mouth and quit trying to make an enemy out of me...
2. Cali, I've known you a long time and even you aren't this dense... Either you don't know how to do a web search, or you're too lazy. Since it's Monday I'll toss you a bone -- The rest you can dig up yourself:
http://www.iop.harvard.edu/thomas-tad-devine
And this is Devine's own bio, so please don't act like it's slanted or I made it up...
cali
(114,904 posts)supporter on a message board, that's just lame.
And I'm sorry but claiming that Devine and Brock are similar is a bullshit false equivalency.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 15, 2016, 06:15 PM - Edit history (1)
Quit putting words in my mouth... What I'm saying is politics is messy, nobody has 100% clean hands, and folks should be wary about waving the shit end of the stick around lest it come back on them...
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/15/bernies_man_behind_the_scenes_tad_devine_is_the_karl_rove_to_sanders_2016_populist_uprising/
And why shouldn't I let the back and forth, pro/con debates at least have some influence on how I decide to vote if I'm not fully decided? That's how I've done it in some past years, and most of the vocal DUers are knee-deep in it, fully committed to their candidate, and are best suited to make arguments... Nevermind the fact that I don't know or even see any Sanders supporters where I live, so like it or not, Democratic Underground and Twitter are the only places where I get real, point-to-point contact with the Sanders Campaign and it's unofficial representatives like you...
Besides, if you *honestly* believed nobody based their vote on what some supporter says online, why do you and everyone else (from both camps) spend so much time here promoting your candidates? Nobody would be doing it if they didn't think they could change some minds...
Beacool
(30,253 posts)Hillary supported a fellow Democrat, like she has supported many other Democratic officials.
Sanders hired Devine. Big difference.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)leftupnorth
(886 posts)Just start an 'internet flame war' and *POOF* your facts are invalid.
Because reasons. And flame broiled internets. Or something.