More and more this primary has distilled down to one thing for me:

[cali]

Character. By Character I mean, ethics, principles, honesty- among other attributes. Bernie has Character. He has fought for working people, for the marginalized and downtrodden for most of his life. His interest in power has been and is, what he could do with it for others. His judgment is informed by his character.

He's represented me for 25 years. I've been to town hall with him, relaxed pot luck affairs. When I advocated on behalf of those with disabilities, I met with him in D.C. He is who he has always been.

He's a person of outstanding character.

[merrily]

1. Thing is, if you think a candidate is untrustworthy, why do you vote for their campaign rhetoric?

You don't. In most cases, you either like their record for the last half century, including whatever made you distrust the candidate, or you vote because of (perceived) self interest.

Candidly, my self interest probably lies more with Hillary than with Bernie, but I will grin when I vote for him. I wish only that the primary were a few more weeks away because the more people see him, the more they want to vote for him and the reverse seems to be true of Hillary.

[cali]

2. My purely selfish interests lie more with republicans.

I have only voted for one in my life, Jim Jeffords.

[merrily]

7. He switched to Indie and caucused with the Dems, until he retired--and Bernie followed his lead.

[HereSince1628]

9. I can't say for sure, but... couldn't a person convince themselves there's a special relationship

between that otherwise untrustworthy person and said person's group?

History is full of stories where people were loyal to leaders who don't seem so worthy.

People being people, why should we expect our times to be different?

[senz]

80. Clear, concise analysis, merrily. I'd add two other factors

to the reasons you've noted for Hillary's support, both of which are emotion-based. I get the impression they predominate here on DU.

The first is a strong personal identification with Hillary based on her story and gender, an identification propelled by projection. Those who hold this view of Hillary read themselves, their history, and their personal struggles into her. She represents, for them, the wounded female trying to survive against terrible odds; a victory for her would be experienced as a victory for themselves. The projection is so strong that they can't see her for who and what she is. I'm positive that the Hill campaign is aware of this phenomenon and deliberately plays to it.

The second is a shallow notion of "Democrats vs. Republicans" as a team sport with little, if any, meaningful content. The party is the team, and all that matters is "our team" winning. There is no content beyond a distant, golden history in which Democrats stood for the rights of oppressed minorities. But now, it is considered sufficient if a person has a "D" after their name. It's nearly a conditioned reflex, very Orwellian, incredibly sad. Hillary's campaign has recently begun to use this one too, as we saw at last night's town hall.

Each of these "reasons" bypasses any kind rational thought; they are totally ripe for manipulation.

I would love to express my contempt for the holders of these rationales but shall refrain in the interest of avoiding a hide.

[merrily]

97. Wow. Very insightful! I especially love the analysis about women.

The party is the team, and all that matters is "our team" winning.

You are so right to enclose"Our team" in quotation marks.

The Democratic Party is the team of Democratic officeholders, like DWS, and those who make their money from them or invest in them for whatever reason, such as strategists, some MSNBC anchors, pundits, lobbyists, big donors, media, etc. Same for the Republican Party and Republican officeholders, etc. Our team is Americans who are not plutocrats or living off plutocrats.

The blue team and the red team are supposed to be serving us, the ones who pay their rent, their staffs, their salaries, their pensions, their phone bills, etc. They have not been.

[ChiciB1]

100. senz, merrily And A Long List Of Others... VERY WELL SAID...

I think so many of us who have been around for a very long time have seen AND understand exactly what you've stated! The Democratic Party we grew up with always had it's flaws because it's the nature of the game. But it's become progressively, and I use that term loosely, one that has fallen prey to power above all and with it brings the riches. Corrupt Power that still masks itself as the Party Of The People. They've become a CABAL that now guards an invisible gate that swings open to only those deemed worthy by them. The ones who ONCE DID stand with the people but have gotten a bite of the poison apple. I'm not sure if this is an often used phrase or if it's even a phrase, but it seems the apple rotted from the inside out. I think the fish rots from the head down, but no matter which applies I feel this is what has happened.

What other explanation could there be when so many of those we held in high esteem have begun to use their past and name recognition to make sure the apple cart doesn't get upset? At the very least I feel they've sold out and are quite willing to sell us out too.

I've tried and tried NOT to feel this way for a long time now, but each day I see yet another leader from the past lend his or her name to tarnish a man who has remained what he always was. I've even asked myself IF I was being fooled into thinking that HE wasn't real. It's been so long since we've seen any of our own fight for us as he is. It may have begun before I saw Barney Frank tell us that he would support Hillary. BARNEY FRANK?? Then so many others fell in line, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Sherrod Brown (that one hurt) and so so many more. This list is long and growing and we see CHEERS of delight as each one who I once felt really fought for us, seem to abandon what I thought they were.

All I've said is overly harsh to some extent, I'm sure all is not lost and yet I don't know what else to think. I know who I'll vote for and have hoped that what I'm seeing isn't what I'm seeing. Still I feel like I'm fighting an illusion at times. I've never felt as upset knowing that should Hillary become the nominee I'm going to HAVE to vote for her. THIS ISN'T THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!

I know I could go on and on, but felt the need to add my feelings and support to all those here who want to along side a man who has essentially decided to stand up to Goliath because he cares. I wonder every day how he's been able to stand this onslaught of the most powerful people in this country. He's carrying a VERY, VERY HEAVY LOAD!" How can we not stand with him??

I'm not even sure I've ever seen a person who has actually done this before. Even knowing what I've seen in the past. The others before at least HAD a large cadre of people in power standing with them when they began to fight. He has so few, only "we the people."

It's late here, I'm very tired and I'll get up tomorrow and stand along with him again. As we all have for so long!

[eridani]

103. That first reason would apply to me if I were not the issue junkie that I am

I really do want a woman, president, which is why my first choice was Warren. When she decided not to run, I went for the candidate closest to her on issues.

[Iol59]

3. Yes!This is how I feel exactly

Thank you.

[cali]

5. Thank you.

[Live and Learn]

4. K&R nt

[Jarqui]

6. Last night, the other candidate demonstrated her typical character

When one can't be honest with people, what they're really saying is: "What I am and what I really stand for isn't good enough so I have to lie to measure up to the other guy." And that's exactly what she did several times over as documented in last night's thread. And she did so in a setting that seemed to be set up to favor her as we also documented.

Bernie is rock solid on what he stands for. He's being fighting for it his whole life. He's an honest, decent man. They can nitpick his policies complaining the numbers don't add up - which nearly anybody can do to any politician's policies but he is sincere. If they want to bicker whether he'll save you $4,500 on health care and it eventually works to half or quarter of that, who cares? It's a found wallet compared to what you're not going to get from the other candidate. What he's telling you he wants is what he's always wanted:to help people, particularly those at the bottom economically.

The most important thing to the other candidate is to ruthlessly do what ever she has to to obtain power. She's hired people to smear Bernie and they've tried to do so. She's corrupted the DNC. Her campaign has twisted Bernie's words or positions to misrepresent him. etc. A whole bunch of shenanigans that we've discussed here. And the corporate media seems to be helping her.

As you say, the most important thing to Bernie is helping people.

To me, they're as different as night and day and that is what we saw displayed again last night.

[Kittycat]

25. Yes!

Great post.

[Uncle Joe]

8. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the testimony, cali.

[GreatGazoo]

10. I think that is why they have assailed him as "naive" rather than "untrustworthy"

They are afraid to go after his character. He is consistent and likeable and he has a lifelong record that shows his consistency and conviction. So they are stuck trying to kill our hopes by saying in effect 'we see that you like Sanders and his positions but he can't deliver what he is talking about doing.'

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

34. I don't know how ANYONE can look at that chart and not be concerned about Hillary in the G.E.

[YOHABLO]

89. It depends on who she may be up against. Of course we have to consider the intellect of voters.

[Snotcicles]

38. I'll take naive and optimistic over jaded and hopeless any day. nt

[hifiguy]

42. "Some look at things as they are and

ask 'why?' I dream of things that never were and ask 'why not?'"

Robert F. Kennedy

[Snotcicles]

47. +1.nt

[GreatGazoo]

62. Yes and it's easily debunked: a lifetime of activism and public service =/= "naive"

And saying the proposals are "naive" admits they are desirable and that Sanders is sincere.

It sets up a discussion of the proposals themselves and moves us beyond personal attacks.

[NoMoreRepugs]

76. great #'s for Bernie what surprises me is Kasich

but then again most people across the country don't know what a scumbag he is truly is...

[RazBerryBeret]

95. Kasich....

I'm a Buckeye, so I know how bad he is. but I have to admit that after watching the Rep Town Halls the last two nights, Kasich was looking kinda not bad. I mean comparatively.... and I never thought I'd say that. ha.

[GeoWilliam750]

88. Ultimately her message seems very clear

"Ask not what Hillary Clinton can do for you, but what you can do for Hillary Clinton"

[passiveporcupine]

96. They are afraid to go after his character.

The campaign may not go there frequently (they have a little, like trying to call him a liar about his history of civil rights support), but boy do Hillary supporters here love to do that. Just read some of the threads in the Hillary group sometime. And of course that leaches into GDP too often.

[islandmkl]

11. k & r +1000

[Vattel]

12. People can sense that he is a good man.

Someone coming out of nowhere to challenge Clinton wouldn't have got far if he seemed like just another pandering asshole.

[ellennelle]

13. agreed

shouldn't it always be about character, fundamentally?

this is why i maintain some level of comfort with obama, despite his decisions i have not liked or understood.

i trust his basic character.

i trust bernie's character.

i wish i could say i trust hillary's, but because she's always wanted to BE prez so much for so long, that tends to shade everything.

[Mbrow]

14. Thanks Cali, K&R

I was lucky enough to meet Bernie about 20-25 years ago (how time flies!) for a couple of hours. you are right he hasn't changed at all

[boston bean]

15. Then you figure you wouldn't be voting for the candidate who peddles policies he knows

he can't deliver.

I think that is pretty bad character.

[cali]

18. That is a false claim. Bernie has been clear.

He says repeatedly that this is a process and that congress has to change before we can achieve things like single payer.

Hill's character is stained by her lack of ethics, her in your face corruption and her endless lies. Not to mention her greed, entitlement and arrogance.

[boston bean]

19. His policies are bunk. They don't add up. They are not do-able, the way he is leading young people

to believe they can have free college and college debt wiped out is base politics where disappointment causes less participation in politics.

It's pandering at its best, lying at its worst. Not something I admire in someone's character.

[cali]

20. Bullshit. And it's not answering. He's been advocating

for the same things for decades.

Now corrupt liar, hill.....

She is appalling.

[boston bean]

21. I could advocate that everyone gets a million bucks salary every year.

Doesn't mean it is realistic.

He's got young people believing he can get it done if they vote for him.

His policies do not add up mathematically, they are unrealistic in this divided nation, and disappointment would be strewn about the populace making people even more cynical.

It won't matter that he's advocated something for 40 years, when what you are advocating and in elections promising don't and won't happen.

It's appalling.

[Dustlawyer]

22. If Bernie wins the whole enchilada, would you help in fighting for these things?

He is calling for a political revolution and his first fight is campaign finance reform, just because you don't believe he can do it, will you stay home, or will you join us in pressuring the Republicans and corporate Democrats to get rid of Citizens United and campaign contributions?

[boston bean]

24. Won't happen, but I would vote for him against a republican.

Cause I'm not a fucking idiot.

[Dustlawyer]

30. I wasn't clear enough, if he wins the White House, (spare me the "won't happen" I know

where you stand), will you fight for his policies to help make the political revolution a reality?

[polly7]

41. Then why does ANYONE enter politics?

The whole idea of entering politics is presumably to advocate for what the people paying you need and try to get enough to come around to pass bills for the changes needed. Is any politician magically able to change laws and pass bills on their own? I've never seen it - anywhere.

Clinton must be one of those magicians with all those things she's going to be able to put in place instantly. But then, the people/corporations paying her aren't the same as those paying Bernie and all of those who actually spend years working for real people.

Democratic Socialism and the 2016 US Presidential Election

Bernie Sanders, Democratic Socialism, and the Other America (Part Two of a Five Part Series)

by Edward Martin and Mateo Pimentel / February 18th, 2016

Fast forward to 2016.

As a result of the Great Recession in 2008, most Americans today have literally struggled for their economic lives in one way or another. The manifestations have been felt painfully in wage-reductions, job loss, depleted 401K accounts, raided pensions, short sales on homes, foreclosures on homes, survival credit card debt, financial bankruptcy, healthcare bankruptcy, family financial stress, repossessions, economic and emotional scars of the phony war in the Middle East, soldier deaths, wounded veterans, etc. At the same time, billionaires and the 1% have been doing better than ever with record economic growth, publicly funded bailouts of corporations, and multibillion dollar tax breaks to boot. In contrast, the pain that everyday people have experienced is real. But the only political candidate today that seems to have identified this devastation and translated it into real political issues of substance is Bernie Sanders. He has tapped into this pain and has thus been able to pound away on some of the most pressing policy issues of our time. Sanders has continually repeated the chorus of injustices that people have experienced as a direct result of the billionaire conquest of our democratic society and the financial destruction of the middle class. Suffice it to say, the poor and underclass in America have almost completely slipped under the radar. The result of this has been that two different Americas have re-emerged, and the use of the term “re-emerged” is intentional here because this has all happened before in the history of the US.

Not a single-issue candidate.

In addition to the class conflict-warfare theme underlying Bernie Sanders political campaign (which is really what Citizens United and campaign finance reform is all about) are several other related issues. Bernie Sanders opposed the Iraq War Authorization, Wall Street Bailout (TARP), Patriot Act 2001, Patriot Act Reauthorization 2006, Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), Death Penalty, Keystone XL Pipeline, Border Fence Legislation 2006, and Offshore Oil Drilling. He supports: breaking up big banks; reauthorizing Glass-Steagall; and rescinding Citizens United and the corporate takeover of democracy in the US. He opposed the Brady bill simply because it made owners of gun shops criminally liable for guns they sold to non-criminals. But the key point is this: Sanders understands the human economic tragedy suffered as a result of the 1%. Bernie Sanders has a movement going that will not be stopped, regardless of whether or not the media provide a shallow analysis of his campaign. Even if he is not elected president of the United States, his influence will carry on because the issues are like raw wounds, compounded by Citizens United undermining of legitimate democratic governance. What constitutes illegitimate governance is corporate money paid to congressmen, congresswomen, and senators, in order to do the business of big business as a priority, not the people’s business. See some of the relevant research published by Larry Bartels, Unequal Democracy: The Political Economy of the New Guilded Age, Princeton University Press, 2008; Benjamin Page and Lawrence Jacobs, Class War? What Americans Really Think About Economic Inequality, University of Chicago Press, 2009; Martin Gilens and Benjamin Page, “Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens,” Perspectives on Politics, 2014, 564-581; and Edward Martin, “Oligarchy, Anarchy, and Social Justice,” Contemporary Justice Review, 2015, 55-67.

What the establishment elites and media want desperately to avoid is the class conflict-warfare theme underlying all of this. Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie mentioned at a recent Republican debate, February 8, 2016, that raising taxes on millionaires is “a failed idea and a failed policy; it’s class warfare.” Imagine that! The rich are now being oppressed! So the establishment plays victim and wants to avoid any historical narrative of actual life-and-death struggles that took place throughout the history of the United States, resulting from class conflict-warfare, and tragically, to which the United States is reverting. This narrative is becoming uncomfortably reminiscent. Big business, government, military, bureaucracy, and the money media (military-industrial-bureaucratic-media complex) do not want a systematic analysis of the economic issues and the underlying causes of poverty and inequality taking place in the United States. After all, why would they jeopardize their profit margins?

Their bottom line is profits, and they want to make sure their profit margins are steadily increasing. They do not want a systemic analysis of stagnant wages by American workers over the past forty years or trade deals leveraged on developing countries and fast-tracked fascist style through Congress as is the TPP. Yet, imagine if The Other America, “war on poverty” safety nets were missing when the Great Recession hit. Robert Reich has argued that the reason it was a Great Recession, and not another Great Depression, was precisely because The Other America, “war on poverty” “socialist” public policies were in place. Absent these socialist strategies, the economic damage would have been catastrophic. Other economists, such as Richard Wolff, Stephen Resnick, and John Roemer, argue that the safety net might already be a thing of the past. The ironic tragedy is that this has a boomerang effect on the rich themselves if workers themselves are unable to purchase or consume. Henry Ford understood this effect. Workers need to spend. If not he would soon be out of business. Hauntingly, Marx and Engels’ prediction in the Communist Manifesto has become increasingly significant in that the bourgeoisie produces “its own gravediggers.”

http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/02/democratic-socialism-and-the-2016-us-presidential-election/

[Gore1FL]

35. Maybe you are too young to remember, but before Reagan we used to do things as a country,

Last edited Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

We put a man on the moon, lead the world in discovery, fought a cold war, a police action, built and maintained the growing infrastructure. All along schools were funded and college was affordable.

After what I've seen in my lie, when I read or hear someone espouse that things are not doable, I just have to laugh.

[Schema Thing]

46. ^ this. These Can't-do-Dems disgust me.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

37. Oh yes, those poor deluded young people.

So clueless. Nothing motivates them except "Free college!! Let's vote for that guy!!!!" They really don't have a clue how anything works.

[BillZBubb]

40. You aren't a very astute listener.

I know you are in the "We can't" camp. That's fine. But to misrepresent what Sanders is saying is the height of either ignorance or dishonesty.

Sanders isn't saying he alone will deliver on these objectives. He is saying they are his priorities and he will fight for them. He knows, I know and YOU KNOW, he cannot do this without changing the whole political dynamic--that's why he speaks of a revolution. Progress starts with replacing corporatist Dems like Hillary, with progressive Dems. Then replacing republican fossils and Neanderthals with Dems.

It is a process. It is a process that we must begin immediately.

[noretreatnosurrender]

43. Projecting?

Maybe you believe what Bernie proposes can't be done because you know your candidate can't achieve them. I totally understand that. You would be right. The truth is you have to want to achieve them first or you never will. You have to have a vision of where you want to go and get to work. Your candidate goes for the low hanging fruit because it's easier. She doesn't try to go for what we truly need because she's too vested in being a part of the system. She will never challenge the system in a way that will create any meaningful change. She tinkers around the margins so that she can pretend that she is an agent of change. She is not an agent of change. She is the status quo.

[azurnoir]

50. ah the audacity of nope

we heard that in 2008 too

[Jackilope]

51. These aren't novel ideas. Other countries have universal healthcare and tuition paid for.

In the USA we have enough money for war, enriching war profiteering, and enabling Wall St. and banking corruption.

The very wealthy and the established politicians have a nice corrupt relationship. How dare we as a society want better things like other countries?

If you don't want to see the change, fine. Please move out of the way for those of us who do.

[thesquanderer]

60. The policies do add up. It will be up to the voters to determine whether they are do-able.

You mentioned the college plan in particular. Even the articles I've seen that are critical of his college plan agree on the numbers, more or less... Bernie claims that the plan will cost $75 billion, critical articles (in U.S. News, and quoted elsewhere) say $70 billion, so in the same range. Sanders specifies a particular way to pay for it (financial transaction tax) which is expected to raise even far more than that, and I haven't seen anyone say that it wouldn't... the critical articles I've seen have instead argued against the idea of a financial transaction tax (i.e. http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/02/06/who-pays-bernie-sanders-free-college-proposal ), and unconvincingly IMO.

As for his economic plans overall, you may have seen the article discussed here yesterday, "The economist who vouched for Bernie Sanders’ big liberal plans is voting for Hillary Clinton"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/the-economist-who-validated-bernie-sanders-big-liberal-plans-is-voting-for-hillary-clinton/

This economist prefers Hillary as a candidate, but not because Bernie's plans don't add up. Rather he says, "I agree with Bernie on economic issues, but there are other issues.”

I am specifically picking links from people who are NOT for Sanders, to show that even *they* don't necessarily say his plans don't add up, as you do. Sanders' site goes into great detail about how his plans will be paid for (much more so, in fact, than Hillary's site does, and I provided some examples at http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511174130 and also discussed how she doesn't even have any specific health care plans, much less a way to pay for them, at my post #9 at http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511222901 ).

So your proposition that his policies don't add up is simply not a fact... it is, at best, disputable. As to whether they are do-able, that gets back to his ability to motivate voters. He doesn't have to do everything on day one, he doesn't have to completely flip Congress in 2016. As the saying goes, every long journey starts with a single step... if we don't start moving this direction, we'll never get there. If Sanders can build and keep his base motivated, what can't be done right away can be further moved toward in the elections of 2018, 2020, 2022, and into the terms of his successor. To say this can't all be done immediately is not a good reason not to start. If you wait until this is all immediately achievable before voting for someone with this platform, it will never happen.

It is not pandering, it is not lying, he is laying out a platform that no one denies would take time and effort to implement. That's not an excuse not to try.

[liberal from boston]

64. Robert Reich

Robert Reich who was President Clinton's Labor Secretary has endorsed Bernie Sanders. He stated that he has known Hillary since she was 19 years old, has great respect for her but she is not the candidate needed at the present time. This election is so important & what is needed now is a President w/a bold vision to address the problem on sky high inequality. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/27/want-to-reverse-sky-high-inequality-bernie-sanders-is-the-pragmatic-choice

[jeff47]

28. Please explain how Clinton gets Republicans to expand the ACA.

Because that is what she is claiming she can deliver.

[stonecutter357]

33. +1000

[rhett o rick]

44. Having someone that at least wants to change the current corrupt system is much

better than someone that makes no bones about supporting the corrupt culture. A culture that has made President Clinton and H. Clinton very, very wealthy. They are in the top 1% of the top 1%.

[Qutzupalotl]

45. MLK never delivered on a color-blind society.

Does that mean he had bad character?

FFS, these are statements of belief that speak to the candidate's priorities. Even if NONE of the policies he advocates are implemented in my lifetime, I know we would at least have a president who places my interests above those of big donors. I trust his decision-making process more than that of any other candidate I have ever seen.

[senz]

67. + 100 Sums it up.

Thanks for expressing it so well.

[uponit7771]

54. +1

[Waiting For Everyman]

56. Oh, did Hillary get an advance vote from Congress on her policies?

She has no guarantee on what she can get done either. That's a "given" for anybody in office.

So she can add "hypocrite" to her long list of character deficits for the pretense that she's somehow exempted from that fact.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. 2008 called. They would like that talking point back

Same shit, different primary

[TryLogic]

73. I think they are objectives, not policies. How does the word "policies" work in a government

in a government structured like ours? I think it translates back to personal values and behaviors. Sounds a lot like character rather than promises. We all know that political promises not worth much.

At age 72, I say integrity and good judgment are the two most important characteristics for a president to possess. Many (most!) politicians, especially the Clintons, use getting things done as an explanation for why they minimize the importance of integrity - assuming they understand what that is. They are lawyers. I think lawyers use whatever trick, spin, or claim they think will work. Of course, work = win.

Bernie has integrity and good judgment. These are Clinton weak spots. Bernie knows we must all work together to make things happen. With Bernie we get things done by working together. With Clintons, things get done by setting aside integrity, as needed.

And don't get me started on Hillary's judgment problem.

[noiretextatique]

79. then why don't people trust HER?

maybe they know they don't want what she will deliver.

or maybe it's 30+ years of rw brainwashing? or sexism? or the vast lw/rw conspriracy? or the media? or awful, mean sanders' supporters? anything but HER.

[eridani]

101. What can be delivered depends on what you ask for

I'm supposed to like it that Clinton will never ask for anything that might benefit the 99%.

[davidpdx]

109. The funny thing is Clinton directly panders to certain groups

which makes what the person above said hypocrisy at its finest.

[cantbeserious]

16. We Us Together - Vs - No Can't and Impossible -- The Choice Is Clear

eom

[SmittynMo]

17. There was a day when

judgement and character meant EVERYTHING. It still does in MY book.

I'm not so sure if it applies any more, even though it should. But then I've never seen a race like this before. It's like we're saying "fuck it, let's throw the book out of the window this time around".

[Kittycat]

32. And that stuns me.

I'm shocked when I see fellow democrats completely ignore the corruption we all, for years, pushed back on. Or so I thought. Now it's, who cares? Or only the republicans can be corrupt, etc, etc. and completely ignoring the flip flopping. Those are things we called out. I don't mean changing your mind over a period of years, I'm talking days, weeks. So in your face it's insulting.

I'm not interested in going further to the right. And quite frankly, HRCs electability odds in a general or horrible. Republicans hate her, independents won't turn out to vote for her, and she's driven a wedge through the heart of the Democratic Party. How does that give us a chance at the Presidency, let alone help the turnout for down ticket. It doesn't.

If she wants to try and slime Sanders, the person who makes less in a year than she does in a couple of her Goldman speeches - people are going to start seeing the cracks in her glass house. If she's not careful, throwing those rocks inside will cause it to shatter, so enough.

[ccinamon]

84. well said! n/t

[hedda_foil]

99. Actually his total net worth is less than she rakes in for two speeches.

Bernie is Demothsenes' honest man about 2,400 years after he began his quest. That's a long time coming, and we can't expect another of his like to turn up again ...at least not in this epoch.

[WillyT]

23. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[thereismore]

26. You are a great advocate.

[delrem]

27. That's good enough for me.

All the swiftboating has slid from him like rainwater from a duck, and it's bloody inspirational.

[caduceus111]

29. I know, right? Going forward...

Seriously, WHO. REALLY. WANTS. TO. DEAL. WITH. ALL. THIS. BULLSHIT???!

Scandals, Wall Street ties, bullshit email crap, yes (then no) on seemingly every freaking issue. Can't get a straight answer out of her. Negative campaigning. Underhanded tactics coordinated with the DNC. Freaking SuperPacs that she somehow is OK with now, but will reform them in the future. Can't even argue about the issues, but emphasizes petty shit like "who's more progressive" and "look at all my quid pro quo ENDORSEMENTS (har, har). "But I have a FIVE POINT PLAN!" Blah, blah, blah. It's all vague, vague blather.

W.T.F!?? Where are the goddamn adults in this country?

We've got one guy who's:

1. Truly progressive (in the Roosevelt/Kennedy sense).
2. Fights for the little guy and the working class, and has for longer than I've been alive.
3. Would get us out of all these frickin' wars.
4. Believes in equality and justice, no matter the issue.
5. Honest, consistent platform his ENTIRE CAREER.

How is there even question of who is the right choice for Democrats? I look at Nate Silver's site, all the polls, and I absolutely weep at the prospect of our country going down the same shithole since Reagan. Why can't we ever, collectively, do the right, proper thing?

[monicaangela]

31. I believe

we are at a watershed moment in this country and around the world. I believe we have an opportunity to change the course of our history and therefore the history of the world. I believe if we continue down the same road we are on we are headed for destruction. One candidate wants to continue down the forbidden path while the other has been fighting for years to change course. Political rhetoric is something that tends to attract a person as you say according to their more often than not selfish reasons. I believe it is time we start examining closely the difference between rhetoric which is something that changes as the candidate needs it to, and a lifelong commitment that has endured for decades. I have evolved, what a nice statement they use as they continue to weave their wicked web. I've changed my mind about that, no reasonable reason given for the change other than something adding up to what I perceive as, I don't agree with this but since a majority appears to I will have to go along with it to get elected.

The supreme quality for leadership is unquestionably integrity. Without it, no real success is possible, no matter whether it is on a section gang, a football field, in an army, or in an office.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Punkingal]

53. I agree with you.

I feel the same, but you expressed it so much better than I could.

[monicaangela]

66. Thank you Punkingal

I am happy we are in agreement.

[noretreatnosurrender]

36. I agree

It's very refreshing. Someone who rarely toots his own horn and is consistent in his actions. I can't say that about the other candidate. I watched the debate last night and was totally disgusted. The lies and non-answers made me angry. I still have my I'm for Hillary's husband button and the one that was heart shaped with Hillary's photo in the middle. I was so excited to shake her hand on the campaign trail in 1992 and now I can barely stand to hear her voice. I would like nothing better than to have a woman president but not one who is so good at working within a broken system that she will never seek to change that system. And in my view change is what we need.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

102. Me three.

"I was so excited to shake her hand on the campaign trail in 1992 and now I can barely stand to hear her voice."

Yes, I was the same way. Met Hillary in 1992 and saw Bill come to our city 3 times in 1992 and I turned out for all three of those. A die hard democrat who is absolutely disgusted at the party's move to the right.

Bernie is a New Deal Democrat, and most of us (even as a Baby Boomer) cannot remember Roosevelt and what a New Deal Democrat looks like. My parents told me about Roosevelt and the good things he did. And even Harry Truman who was before my time. We idolized JFK and we had 3 pictures of him on the wall in our house when I was little.

I feel like we've been spinning our wheels and going nowhere since 1980, when Ronald Reagan got elected, and it was starting to get bad in the 1970s, when I was in undergrad and started working.

I was watching the live feed of Bernie tonight in Henderson, Nevada, and the enthusiasm and yelling really made me feel good inside.

Bernie has 25 years in Congress and integrity.

[Hiraeth]

39. He is so much the epitome of the Public Servant as his opponent is the Politician.

Archetypal, even.

[Orsino]

48. Sanders' character and his agenda do seem intertwined...

...in good ways. Ditto for Clinton, but in some bad ways.

I'm a Sanders supporter because he has consistently pursued goals which echo my own, with fewer bad compromises, without much riding of coattails and without much personal enrichment.

Sanders is the candidate I find most motivating.

[JGug1]

49. Character

What I find frightening is that the very attacks that the right has made on Hillary Clinton's character for years and years and every single person here rejected and KNEW were lies, are now being embraced here to suggest that she can't be trusted, she has character flaws. The truth is she has no more character flaws than Bernie Sanders has and she has VASTLY more experience than he has. I like Bernie. I do NOT think he is our best or strongest candidate.

[noretreatnosurrender]

57. Character

We've also had years and years to watch her in action. While we defended her against right wing attacks for years we realized that she was actually selling us out on issues important to us over and over. For those of us who supported her at one time but now feel that we were had we probably do come off as very heated. Unfortunately betrayal does that to a person. For those of us who are political because of the issues not just the horse race we take betrayal very seriously. Sorry if we frighten you but I hope this helps you understand why we get angry. Things like principle and character are strong motivators for us. If Bernie gets elected and sells us out we will be here going after him too. Count on it.

[eridani]

107. So, what new voters is Clinton brining into the party?

None, that I can see. Sanders is now polling better against all Repubs than Clinton.

[Trajan]

52. Amen, Cali ....

And hallelujah!

A presidential candidate with enough 'presidential timber' to build an ark ...

So pleased to support this wonderful person ...

[still_one]

55. I applaud your positive personal experience with Bernie, and would even agree with you Bernie is a

good person with an outstanding character.

[noretreatnosurrender]

58. Thanks

Thank you. I hope I have a similar opportunity to honestly defend something about your candidate too. I can say that I think Hillary is good at working within the system.

[Waiting For Everyman]

59. I agree, and I usually don't mind minor character dings.

Those that don't impact office, for instance. I'm not an "evangelical" sort of voter or any sort of purist like that.

But Hillary is every bit of the word "corrupt" in every sense, all the way through, and that includes the rest of her f'd up contingent, including the sell out minority icons, and other icons, who have made a mess of our government for decades now.

A Clinton is the same as a Bush under the covers. One or the other of them has been in influence since Nixon, and that's no coincidence.

I want nothing to do with anybody who enables, supports, and profits from private prisons, as the Clintons have done:

http://www.dunwalke.com/10_Clinton_Administration.htm

[ccinamon]

86. agree! n/t

[ChiciB1]

105. Wasn't That A Jackson Browne Song??

Oh, my very, very favorite! I could write the words of two of his songs that I've had to use to give me solace when I see so much falling apart in this country. The 70's were some of his BEST years, but he's written many, many words that kept me yearning for in America for way too long.

Waiting For Everyman... great! But we HAVE ONE!

[Waiting For Everyman]

112. Yes, it is.

I agree, ChiciB1, Jackson seems to constantly say what I'm thinking, only much better than I ever could. And he's been doing that since the early 70s. There's just nobody so consistently insightful about life as I've known it. He's 2 years older than me, so he's pretty much in sync with my experience of the years. I've bought most of his albums over again on LP, cassette tape, and CD, and now have them digitized. There are only a couple of his later albums that I haven't "taken to" as much.

The song 'Everyman' always comes to mind for me during elections, and that's a big reason why I chose this name because I jointed DU during the 2008 election, and it felt like that's what I was doing here -- waiting for Everyman to come to our way of thinking and join us in the election effort.

When it came out in real time, similar to Jackson's words, I had just given up on living with a bunch of East-coaster friends in California for several years. I don't know how he did it, but that guy always seemed to know where I was at, and what I was thinking. His songs have definitely helped me get through it all. I want to say he's the poet of our time and he is, except that we are fortunate enough to have several who could share that title.

Yes indeed, we do "have one" now! This is for you and him, all of us...

Everybody I talk to is ready to leave
With the light of the morning
They've seen the end coming down long enough to believe
That they've heard their last warning
Standing alone
Each has his own ticket in his hand
And as the evening descends
I sit thinking 'bout Everyman

Seems like I've always been looking for some other place
To get it together
Where with a few of my friends I could give up the race
And maybe find something better
But all my fine dreams
Well thought out schemes to gain the motherland
Have all eventually come down to waiting for Everyman

Waiting here for Everyman --
Make it on your own if you think you can
If you see somewhere to go, I understand
Waiting here for Everyman --
Don't ask me if he'll show... baby, I don't know

Make it on your own if you think you can
Somewhere later on you'll have to take a stand
Then you're going to need a hand

Everybody's just waiting to hear from the one
Who can give them the answers
And lead them back to that place in the warmth of the sun
Where sweet childhood still dances,
Who'll come along
And hold out that strong but gentle father's hand --
Long ago I heard someone say something 'bout Everyman

Waiting here for Everyman --
Make it on your own, make it if you think you can
If you see somewhere to go, I understand

I'm not trying to tell you that I've seen the plan
Turn and walk away if you think I am --
But don't think too badly of one who's left holding sand
He's just another dreamer, dreaming 'bout Everyman


Gotta have a bonus track...

(For younger DUers, the Deluge was not water, it was an era of "cataclysmic" events -- one that ended a lot of things, and people. Following it on a playlist would be "Won't Get Fooled Again". Too bad we did though.)


Or two...

Jackson, Graham Nash and David Crosby, with David Lynley. Whenever I see Graham Nash I always think of an exceptional thing he did for me once, without even knowing me at all... he lent me the use of his house in LA for a few weeks while he was away, because he heard about a dire situation I was in through a friend of a friend -- I'll never forget his kindness and generosity.

[ChiciB1]

114. YES, & DOUBLE YES! He FIRST Got Me When

I too was very young... Dr. My Eyes! I'm a year older than him. What a fantastic story, Crosby, Still & Nash. Before The Deluge, GREAT!

About 3 years ago I last got to see him in concert here in concert in Florida on his Solo Acoustic Tour. I DID pay $250.00 but it was soooooooo worth it, 2nd row up front. Coming to FL isn't CA and as the audience yelled out songs for him to play I kept yelling "Lives In The Balance" and he looked at me and said "I never thought I'd get a request like that here in FL!" My daughter was with me and we just let out a Yuuuuge Whoop! Her first husband's last name was Brown (without the "e&quot and I really tried to get her to name her son Jackson. She wanted to name him after his father. Oh well.

I saw him in St. Pete on his tour right after he released the album Running On Empty, then was able to see one more of his concerts. I remember running out and buying "the vinyl album" as soon as I heard it and actually wore it out and had to buy another one. I have NEVER worn out an album in my life. This was when 8 tracks were popular, but only in cars.

He always comes to mind for me during elections too. Strangely I recently did a Google search and found out his song "In The Shape Of A Heart" wasn't about Daryll Hannah as I had thought it was, but about his first wife, Phyllis Major Browne who committed suicide after the birth of his first son Ethan Zane Browne born 11-1-1973. He has another son Ryan Browne 1-28-1982 by Lynne Sweeney Browne.

"Lives In The Balance" is one of my very, very favorites, but I also love "For America." I have copied some of my favorite songs of his and put them in a folder so that when I die my children will remember what he and his words meant to me.

Of course they DO know as they grew up hearing his music since they were very young. I've cried many tears listening to his music because of how they touched deep into my soul. What's more amazing, some of his songs were written before Iraq and when I listen to them they seem to have been written right then. Especially the the two we're presenting here. There are so many more.

For those here who don't know about Jackson Browne I also want to post the words of "For America." And maybe some here who attack us and say THEY DON'T CARE what happened in the past, you might UNDERSTAND why so many of us support Bernie!

FOR AMERICA...

As if I really didn't understand
that I was just another part of their plan
I went off looking for the promise
Believing in the Motherland
And from the comfort of a dreamer's bed
And the safety of my own head
I went on speaking of the future
While other people fought and bled
The kid I was when I first left home
Was looking for his freedom and a life of his own
But the freedom that he found wasn't quite as sweet
When the truth was known.
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
It's in my blood and in my bones
By the dawn's early light
By all I know is right
We're going to reap what we've sown.

As if freedom was a question of might
As if loyalty was black and white
You here people say it all the time-
"My country wrong or right"
I want to know what that's got to do
With what it takes to find out what's true
With everyone from the President on down
Trying to keep it from you
The thing I wonder about the Dads and Moms
Who send their sons to THE VIET NAMS
Will they really think their way of life
Has been protected as the next war comes?
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
Her shining dreams plays in my mind
By the rockets red glare
A generations blank stare
We'd better WAKE UP to her this time

The kid I was when I left home
Was looking for his freedom and life of his own
But the freedom he found wasn't quite as sweet
As the TRUTH was known
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
I CAN'T LET GO till she comes around
Until the Land Of The Free
Is Awake and Can See
and until her CONSCIENCE has been found!

Sorry for the late reply, was trying to stay away from here, at least for today.

I DO hope people click onto your links and listen, and sincerely hope his words will touch them too. BTW, I'm a white woman who the media has lumped me into as a Hillary supporter! I wonder if she even knows who Jackson Brown is.

[ChiciB1]

115. OK, I DO SEE IT! I Spelled His Name Wrong... YIKES! n/t

[Waiting For Everyman]

116. I'm right there with ya, ChiciB1 :)

White woman here too, longtime fan of Sanders. Nope, I'm pretty sure HC has never heard of Jackson. If so, it didn't spark much thought or feeling within her, and I don't see how that's possible. She strikes me as more of a "Bubble Gum Music" type, as we used to call it in my locale. Maybe show tunes, but that might be a stretch. So funny, I almost put "For America" in my first reply! I love that song so much too, and I'm glad you posted those lyrics. We must be birds of a feather!

I'm so glad to find another Jackson fan here! I think there are a few more of us, here and there, scattered about the place.

Very glad you got to see Jackson in person, I was going to ask that because he's one not to miss. I've seen him 5 times over the years -- at first it cost next to nothing, too bad concerts are so pricey now. I wouldn't mind so much if the musicians got most of it but they don't.

Lol! I too almost named my son "Jackson". He used to call himself that though anyway, because I played those albums so much. He'd pretend to play guitar with an old acoustic, and did in fact grow up to get a degree in classical guitar (how did that happen?, second major in IT) and is a genius player. Oh my, too bad I warped that kid. My daughter is a big JB freak too, like me. Inevitable, I guess.

When you listen to the "Running On Empty" album, the title song and "Load Out", and "Stay" were recorded at an outdoor concert venue near where I lived at the time in Columbia, Maryland (Merriweather Post Pavilion). I was a single mom then, and I took my 4 year old son with me to a summer JB concert there. It was a very cool little local setting in the woods with a smallish number of seats and then people would spread blankets on the naturally-inclining ground picnic-style beyond that. The sound was great! I think it cost something like $25 for both of us, and we went with friends who also had kids his age. ("The Road" too was recorded at Cross Keys Inn, on the lake within walking distance of the woods. It was a very cool little town in 1977, very progressive actually, and btw, EmmyLou Harris waited tables for a time before she was famous at the restaurant in the Cross Keys Inn.)

Back to the concert... At what we thought was the end of the evening, the crowd was clapping and pleading for yet another encore, we didn't think we'd get one, so about half of the people had already left, and that's when Jackson slowly walked back onstage alone saying nothing, sat down at the piano very casually and started playing a little, almost ignoring us. And a couple more musicians came out as if just getting their stuff together and then he started to sing "Load Out" by himself "now the seats are all empty..." and we though WTF?, we didn't even know what was going on at first. And then it was clear that it was a song, and strangely enough sort of about us and that night, and that was cool. And we thought that little song to us was all the very last encore was going to be, and that was great! But as the whole band kicked in and then "Stay" started, we "got it" that this was a REAL encore and the remaining crowd went absolutely NUTS!!! Unforgettable! There was dancing (on and off stage), there was "aren't you glad we didn't leave so fast?", everybody was rockin'! I still can't figure out how they got so much of the crowd noises out though. It was thunderous!

We had no idea at the time, that encore was being recorded. Little did we know, that, and our experience of the new title tune we heard that night, "Running On Empty", were going to end up on the next album when it came out. And now we can hear a little bit of "our" concert anytime. It was August 27 1977. What a day!

Just fwiw, I'm W8ing4Everymen too on Twitter.

[NikolaC]

61. K&R n/t

[Generic Other]

63. You got that right

More valuable than all the campaign contributions from Wall Street can ever be. And harder to earn.

[AmBlue]

65. Your voice, as his long-time constituent, is so important.

Is there any place that we are collecting the stories and experiences of Bernie's constituents? There are so many stories out there I'm sure.

[azmom]

68. Met a guy from Vermont out here in AZ

Introduced himself when he saw my Bernie cap.

He told me Bernie was an honest, and decent man and that he had done a lot for Vermont.

[quantumjunkie]

69. K&R

[Populist_Prole]

70. For me it's a white-hot hatred of establishment corporatist politics

And anyone running on them, or anyone who will govern as such ( populist-ty, just-to-get-elected rhetoric notwithstanding ).

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. That and another aspect

People are angry about the rigged economic system. They know things used to be better

[TryLogic]

74. And about the rigged for-profit corporate media, and out-of-touch, calculating, dishonest

politicians, not to mention the crazy ones who apparently believe that everything from climate change to rape are a part of God's plan.

[DiehardLiberal]

90. Yes, they have been slowly turning up the heat in the pot of boiling water

and acting like it's the same temp.. The frogs know better! We are screaming now...

[MadDAsHell]

75. Yeah but he's got the wrong between his legs.

Last edited Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:26 PM - Edit history (1)

[Duval]

77. Kicked and recommended.

[ananda]

78. That is true.

As a person who has a hard time maintaining my own character sometimes,
if I ever had any (but I keep hoping), I really appreciate character when I
see it.

And Sanders has it in spades!

[senz]

81. K&R Complete agreement.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

82. I agree. No candidate in history has accomplished everything they set out to accomplish.

So in many ways, voters have to go with who they feel they can trust to navigate the Executive when new and unexpected things come up. So yes, it becomes primarily about honesty, and the trust that's engendered from that honesty. The converse also holds true.

[Enthusiast]

83. Kicked and recommended! This post should have a bazillion of recommendations!

[ccinamon]

85. and that comes across very clearly: he's a person of outstanding character.

Many people are tired of voting for the 'lesser of 2 evils' or someone who does not live up their ideals...Bernie transcends so much of what people are tired of!

Plus, he is willing to fight for the people and not profits! That the big thing for me, he really does put people first...Hillary, with her weasel lawyer words you know she will cave to profits and expediency over people every.damn.time.

[libdem4life]

87. Not much left to say, except that I'm jealous...not really...but you've been blessed and

politically well educated. I didn't know the connection.

[virgdem]

91. You have crystallized what I believe is the most important attribute....

character and honesty are two things that have been missing in most, if not all, politicians. They are an important and integral part of how a person conducts themselves. These are the attributes that Bernie has and has had his entire career and life, attributes that Hilary is lacking in every sense of the word. He has the judgment that Hilary lacks as well. I think we are seeing a seismic shift toward Bernie due to his character, honesty and high ethical standards.

[californiabernin]

92. I don't know him as well as you do but same for me. nt

[LiberalBear]

93. My Bernie moment

I am a long time independent because I have always been a data driven voter who is attracted to candidates that want to discuss policy and its impact instead of simply trashing the other guy. With that said, up until last night, I was planning on voting for Sec. Clinton. However, her decision to, not simply suggest, but actually assert that Bernie Sanders is not welcome in the Democratic Party as a candidate for President foreshadows for me a very ineffectual presidency if she is elected. I thought the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans was that Democrats have a big tent. I thought real Democrats were about growing the party by welcoming independents like myself into the party welcoming our ideas, energy, money and active participation. If I understand Sec. Clinton, she is clearly saying that anyone is welcome into the Democratic Party, especially, gays, women, black males, liberals, and even democratic socialists that have served honorably as a local and national public servant for decades, not to mention caucusing with the democrats at every turn. Welcome that is up to and until you challenge the powers that be in the party or if party support of your majority position,, no matter how fact based, puts the party's grip on establishment power at risk (see NAFTA, see deregulation of wall street, see crime bill, see DOMA, see student loans, see social security earlier retirement, see Bernie Sanders......and the list goes on.) So the obvious question to anyone who looks objectively at the data (insert careers of both Sec. Clinton and Sen Sanders) is who is more likely to cast off the concerns of the various under empowered voting blocks that will be absolutely required for Sanders or Clinton to win the presidency (see blacks, 18-30s, liberals, elderly working class) when political expediency demands "compromise" to the moneyed interests of the establishment. Sec. Clinton clearly demonstrated to me last night that she will be first in line to cast off the "Bernie Sanders" of the party if she perceives their policy position, no matter how correct with respect to the facts, as an obstacle to her being able to raise the money from the establishment she clearly feels she needs to get elected and re-elected. I for one am tired of seeing this repeated behavior from politicians in each party. All Sec Clinton had to say last night was, I celebrate Sen. Sanders public service, his long term indisputable commitment to progressive values, and I look forward to working with him and his supporters after I get the nomination and win the presidency. I just strongly believe I am making the best case for any candidate seeking the presidency and I will bring the most experience and knowledge of any current candidate to the job or president." But no, what we got is Bernie doesn't know what past democrat presidents have done or even who they are, and I will release transcripts of my speeches to Wall Street financial firms only after all other candidates do the same. I am feelin the Bern and it feels really really good. Better late than never they say. Now where is that website so I can send in my $27.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

98. Welcome to DU, LiberalBear!

We're glad you're here!

One thing: you might try to break up your text with paragraphs. It's difficult to read line after line of solid text without any breaks. Other than that, I do like what you've said!

Again, Welcome!

[LiberalBear]

113. Thanks for the advice

Cal,
I will break up my "rants". Clinton's TH performance just really disappointed me and made ohhhh so clear on who is actually fit and ready to lead our country into the light.

[Jopin Klobe]

94. " He's a person of outstanding character."

... yep ...

[Michigan-Arizona]

104. Thank you! K&R n/t

[Cheese Sandwich]

106. Yep. Thank you this is exactly right.

For me the issue is about one thing. Who can we trust? And it's not even close.

[avaistheone1]

108. "His judgment is informed by his character."

Beautifully said about a great man.

[Duckfan]

110. Cali, I hope Nevada is thinking the same way as you are.

I really do.

[cali]

111. So do I, Duckfan, so do I.