can we agree: long lines causing people to leave without voting is a scandal?

[geek tragedy]

I don't care who that benefits in terms of relative performance--this is undemocratic and exclusionary.

[intrepidity]

1. I certainly agree with that

Unacceptable, period.

[CorporatistNation]

34. Anyone Remember The 2000 Election? The Establishment/Clinton Folks Are No Different

Than their "preferred" candidate... DISHONEST!!!!


I AM SICK of THESE Fucking CROOKS!

[TeddyR]

37. This post

Doesn't make sense

[Enthusiast]

106. I understand it perfectly well.

[TTUBatfan2008]

2. Caucuses are just a pain in general.

Voting should not be a 5 hour process.

[JDPriestly]

125. I made calls for the Bernie campaign on Friday. A lot of people could not caucus because

they had to work or were sick or could not get to the caucus location. It is not at all fair.

[suffragette]

3. Completely agree

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Absolutely!

Shameful!

[Agschmid]

5. Caucuses are a scandal.

[Aerows]

27. That is one thing that you and I

can unequivocally agree on.

[Agschmid]

28. I knew there was something!

Haha.

[Aerows]

38. That and we both love

Halsey

[Eric J in MN]

99. Yes. They're designed to produce long lines which not everyone has time for.

The DNC shoud require all states to have primaries instead of caucuses in 4 years.

[Agschmid]

101. Yup.

[EdwardBernays]

6. Typical

In America.

America isn't so big on democracy.

[KingCharlemagne]

17. If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. ~Emma Goldman (a real Socialist :) - nt

[Unknown Beatle]

129. Emma Goldman was on to something, wasn't she?

[sulphurdunn]

126. Democracy requires a rational,

informed, civic minded and well educated populace in order to work, which is why it doesn't.

[Merryland]

7. absolutely agree.

these caucuses are a mess.

[SheilaT]

8. Absolutely.

And there are too often unconscionably long lines during the general election.

[joshcryer]

9. Fuck caucases.

[w4rma]

138. You'll be loving caucuses when Bernie wins the rest of them.

Anyway, caucuses were made to fight corruption and smoke filled rooms where insiders pick the winners.

The problem is that we need to make election days, holidays. Period. No employer should be able to threaten an employee to come into work on an election day.

[MohRokTah]

10. No, we cannot.

Caucuses measure depth of support. Primaries measure breadth of support.

If your supporters don't want to caucus, and are not willing to accept all that entails, your support is not a deep as it should be.

[JI7]

14. all votes should be equal.

[MohRokTah]

19. If this was an election, you would be correct. This is a CAUCUS.

So no, if they are not willing to stick around through the entire process, too friggin bad. Their support for the candidate is not deep enough.

[morningfog]

21. That is the stupidest bullshit I've ever read.

[cali]

24. Pretty much.

[Ed Suspicious]

36. I'm always surprised when it isn't.

[PonyUp]

117. Stick around. It will get worse. nt

[JoeyT]

127. Yep. And that's saying a lot.

Welcome to the New Democratic party. Where if you're too poor to take a day off work or can't find or afford a babysitter, you shouldn't have a voice.

[JI7]

25. it should be a regular election. military students and others

Are not able to participate as much as they might.

[MohRokTah]

41. If you do not like the Nevada Caucus,...

1) Live in Nevada
2) Register as a Democrat
3) Become Active in the party
4) Become a delegate to the state convention
5) Work to remove Nevada from one of the "First in the Nation" states
6) Be satisfied with having really no say in the presidential nomination process because you now get your say in June when the state holds its primaries.

[JI7]

43. my criticism is of the caucus itself. not nevada

[MohRokTah]

45. No, your criticism is of Nevada

IT's THEIR choice, not yours.

[JI7]

47. not the choice of all there . And criticism of caucus still stands

[MohRokTah]

53. You only have a say in how YOUR state party operates, and only if you're active in the party.

The Nevada State Democratic Party have decide they would use a caucus system.

Delegates to the State Convention can choose to forego the caucus system and have their voices heard in June when the state holds statewide primaries. I just don't see that happening, though. Now their voices mean something. If they went with June, nobody would give a shit.

[JI7]

54. I'm allowed to criticize on a message board

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

46. Hey, where is your caucus location?

Mine is George Washington High. Where is yours?

[wildeyed]

65. But what about

elderly, disabled, people who can't get off work, don't have childcare? Seems like they are outdated to me, particularly considering how much society has changed.

A long early vote period shows intensity too. During early vote GOTV in my city, we run vans around and knock doors almost continuously trying to flush out every supporter possible. The intensity of the volunteers and the ground game of the candidate is measured, and every person who wants to vote pretty much can. Also why Reps HATE the early vote But it holds true in the primary too.

[Lordquinton]

108. Strange there is no reply to this post

the Caucus system is deeply flawed, anyone who says otherwise benefits from a flawed system.

[tblue37]

74. No, because some people have jobs they can't risk skipping, kids they have no one to take care

of for them, or disabilities that make such long, exhausting processes impossible.

Guess which demogaphics are most likely to be found among those who CAN handle the long, exhausting process, and which demographics will be disenfranchised by them.

Now, which demographcs are supposedly the Dem base, and which the GOP base.

[MohRokTah]

77. Then obviously their support was not deep enough.

Caucuses require commitment from the supporters. If you cannot be committed enough, the caucus measures that by your lack of attendance.

[tblue37]

91. Nonsense. nt

[MohRokTah]

104. Sorry you hate the process.

Too bad though, primaries are too expensive for state parties to bear the burden.

[noamnety]

131. Reminding us why Hillary is accused of being out of touch. (nt)

[felix_numinous]

140. This lack of compassion sounds more RW

than Democratic. Keep it up, you are helping to elect Senator Sanders,

[Eric J in MN]

102. A caucus is a type of election. An undemocratic type of election.

If the DNC ever wants the Democratic Party to be democratic, then it will get rid of caucuses so that more people can vote and their votes count equally.

[MohRokTah]

103. CAucusing requires committment.

IF you cannot commit, you have no voice.

[JimDandy]

109. It appears Nevada has had the Primary process several times in it's history

The electorate at large serms to want a primary election process and not the ridiculous caucuses. My understanding is that in NV the caucus process keeps coming back mostly due to the costs to the state to run a primary election.

[MohRokTah]

112. There is a primary this year.

The state run and paid for primaries are held in June, when nobody would give a damn what Nevada thought of the presidential race.

[morningfog]

20. Why do you hate democracy?

[joshcryer]

22. Asinine, I shouldn't have to risk losing my job...

...just so I can argue with people in a stuffy room.

[MohRokTah]

35. That's how caucuses work.

If you are not willing to take enough time off work to caucus, your support is not deep enough.

If you don't like the NV Caucus, live in NV, register as a Dem, become highly active in the party, become a delegate to the state convention, work to have Nevada removed as one of the first in the nation and move the choice to the Nevada Primary held in June.

[Ed Suspicious]

39. Fuck that. Unreal. That was the stupidest thing I've read all day.

[MohRokTah]

42. That's how the system works

Otherwise, you can just bitch and moan about the process and it will remain the same.

[joshcryer]

40. I'm consistent on this.

I've been bashing caucases for a decade.

[MohRokTah]

44. You have no say in how Nevada chooses it's delegates to the Democratic National Convention

Rightly so.

You live in Colorado.

You have no say in the matter.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

48. So do you. Apparently.

So I'm curious.

I just told you I live in SE Denver, and will be caucusing at GWHS.

[JI7]

50. he isn't claiming he has a say in it. your arguments sound like Donald trump bringing

Up his poll numbers if anyone criticises him.

One has nothing to do with the other.

[joshcryer]

57. Colorado wanted to go back to primaries.

But it was deemed too costly.

[tblue37]

88. For some people taking time off work means being jobless the next day--and even crappy

jobs are hard to come by for many these days.

Who will pay their bills and feed their families if they choose caucusing over work? It isn't as though our social safety net is still all that functional.

And the single mother who leaves her kids home alone will be excoriated if something happens while she is caucusing--or even if something doesn't, if someone finds out she has done that. And if she 's a PoC, she will probably be arrested and her kids taken from her and placed in foster care.

No, it is ridiculous to say everone has an equal choice.

It's like the old joke that a pauper and a millionaire both have an equal right to choose to sleep under a bridge.

[MohRokTah]

98. IF your state has a caucus, work to change that.

Otherwise, it's just too damned bad. Many states require parties pay for primaries or hold them so late the state has no real say in the nomination process. NV primaries are in June. The State party jumped at the opportunity ti become one of the first in the nation but the only financially viable way to do that was with caucuses.

[strategery blunder]

137. I live in WA. We have caucuses.

Today I put in my time off request for the caucus date. I can do that because I have about 90 hours of accrued vacation time, and a month and 5 days is plenty sufficient notice to file to use such time.

But hell, not everyone has vacation time. This time last year, I was working two jobs, and while I probably could have arranged for the time off from one or the other, coordinating time off from both simultaneously was such a major pain in the ass that I literally only attempted it once. I didn't know what my schedule would be the next week, let alone a month out. I count my lucky stars I was able to quit the second job last fall.

Had this election fallen a year ago, I would have been voiceless because I did not have access to the fringe benefits that you take for granted. I certainly do not take my voice for granted and that is why I've submitted a vacation request (something I couldn't do this time last year) to have the caucus day in its entirety off. I wish we had primaries (in fact primaries were mandated by voter initiative in our state but the Democratic Party sued in court, and won, to overturn the will of the voters and keep its caucuses for delegate allocation).

"Caucuses measure depth of support..." sure they do, amongst professionals and people who are high enough on the socioeconomic ladder to take a day's vacation time. Oh, and those who don't have vacation time offered by their employer tend to be the ones least able to afford a lost day's wages from taking the day off anyway.

I suspect that's why Harry Reid placed some phone calls to the casinos on the Strip. I'm not so fortunate as to have politicians give a damn about my ability to participate in the political process like that.

But hey. Even though I've been a Democrat since 2003 (the year I turned 18), my ability (or inability) to participate in the nomination process is of no consequence or concern to Hillary supporters like you. The dripping condescension and arrogance is clear.

[HooptieWagon]

56. Caucuses are discriminatory.

Elderly and disabled may not be able to stand for several hours. People who work or go to school may not be able to block out several hours mid day. Union leaders or bosses may pressure or threaten members since no secret ballots. There might be an argument made for caucuses in a small rural community. In a large city they're undemocratic.

[Ligyron]

128. EXACTLY! nt

[Odin2005]

59. Why do you hate democracy?

[MohRokTah]

62. I don't.

Why do you hate the Democratic Party?

[Odin2005]

63. Because it is owned by the 1%.

[MohRokTah]

64. Well, I hate Socialism

because history has proved it's a failed economic system.

And it's looking pretty solid that Hillary won by more than 3% today.

[Odin2005]

66. I hate Capitalism because history has proved it's a failed economic system.

[mythology]

70. Except there are people who have jobs that mean they can't stay

Emergency personnel, older voters, people who are sick, etc. Caucuses should go. Also registering to vote needs to be easier.

[MohRokTah]

72. They should have arranged for time off if their support had been deep enough.

Caucuses measure the depth of support.

Primaries measure the breadth of support.

[fullautohotdog]

79. Wow...

So only people who have nothing to do on a Saturday should have a voice? Because everyone works a Monday through Friday 9 to 5 and has money for a babysitter on the weekends, apparently. How very republican (and Republican) of you.

I've been rubbed horribly the wrong way by Bernie supporters. Thank you for helping balance that out. I only wish I didn't live in a state that has no influence on the primary or general, otherwise it might matter I'm considering changing my support from Hillary.

[MohRokTah]

83. A Caucus measures depth of support. How much committment one has for their candidate.

If you cannot commit enough to make arrangements and insure you will attend the caucus, then you are simply not committed enough to be counted in the caucus system.

[rpannier]

118. I suppose you'd be willing to share that sentiment

with someone who is physically challenged or disabled?

You've made some really good arguments in favor of Clinton
This is by far one of your worst because your argument seems to be okay with a system that is discriminating against the elderly, the physically challenged, those who work more than one job (the poor), members of the armed service, etc

[MohRokTah]

120. That is how caucuses work.

Holding a special primary in February is cost prohibitive for the state party.

The only other choice is waiting for June when your vote wouldn't mean a damn any way.

Organizations are faced with choices in this life. In my opinion, the Nevada Democratic Party made the best choice available to them.

[rpannier]

122. No point in carrying it out

It sounds like you're taking an "As long as we win I don't care' approach

So, gonna let it go
But, it's still a pretty weak argument that they aren't committed because they have to get to work to feed their families or their physical challenge prevents them from fully participating

[fullautohotdog]

121. Again, wow...

Eight years ago, Nevada officials decided going early was more important than the will of the voters.

Because screw poor people who can't spend all Saturday at a caucus, as well as those out of town for work, school, military service, etc. Only the upper-middle and upper classes should count.

How democratic (and Democratic) of you.

[Karma13612]

87. When the precinct is in total chaos and you can't even get in to exercise your depth of support,

then that is a problem with the process.

People wait in line and then give up so they can go back to work.

that is thwarting the process.

It is far from a test to show depth of support when they can't exercise their support.

Bull.On.That

[Herman4747]

124. If your supporters are often retired elderly folks who...

...don't have to work on Saturday or don't have young children to be left alone for hours on end, you might want to think about coming up with a more fair DEMOCRATic process. Keep us informed.

[bobbobbins01]

136. If that is the case, each candidate should just pick one supporter to represent them.

And then the supporters fight to the death. Whoever is standing at the end, their candidate gets all the delegates. If your fighter loses, clearly they didn't train enough and their depth of support wasn't up to snuff.

If you want to get your candidate elected, you have to prove you're dedication with blood!

[SoLeftIAmRight]

11. no discussions being allowed at NV caucus sites - Hillary voters need to get back to work

WTF

[Karma13612]

90. although I am supporting Bernie, I agree with you in principle. WTF indeed.

[JI7]

12. this is why a primary with early voting option is better

And vote by mail

[tammywammy]

13. Caucuses inherently are disenfranchising

All states should move to primaries.

[farleftlib]

18. right on

I find the process strange and prone to error or worse.

[Aerows]

29. It is absolute chaos trying to take part in one.

Florida voting is less rigged.

[tammywammy]

84. Nevada went to a caucus to move up the primary calendar

caucuses are cheaper than a primary.

I wish there was a way to go with a rotating primary schedule. I'm glad that I have two weeks to vote before Election Day, and that includes weekend days too. I just remember when I worked retail, there's no way I would have been able to caucus on a Saturday, and only so many could be off at once. I just disagree with caucuses altogether.

[Eric J in MN]

107. The DNC should force every state to use primaries in 2020. NT

NT

[jwirr]

15. Totally. Especially in a caucus.

[SamKnause]

16. The entire fucking set up is exclusionary.

If you work you can't go. (Some of the people today said they would be

punished if they were gone longer than 1 1/2 hour)

If you are severely disabled you can't go.

If you have no transportation you can't go.

If you have no money for public transportation you can't go.

If you are the care giver for a sick family member you can't go.

[cui bono]

23. +1

[cui bono]

26. Is this happening today?

At a caucus, why would a long line make you leave? You have to be there for hours anyway.

.

[valerief]

30. Definitely. But this is America. Voting is for lip service only. The process is rigged wherever it

can be.

[Green Texan]

31. Caucuses cause problems

It looks like a mess in Nevada right now. People in Nevada are saying they want to have a primary like other states.

[LonePirate]

32. Blame the state parties and legislatures who refuse to pay for official primary elections & ballots

[stopbush]

33. It's sad, but the real scandal is that these first-time voters

weren't told to register earlier than day of. Anyone who has visited a doctor's office for the first time knows that filling out paperwork slows things down.

Did they expect to walk in and scan their credit card or ID and that was it?

A little common sense would a helped.

[Nevernose]

85. No. They got front of line status

The ppl registers had to waitu

[Duckhunter935]

49. yes, why can't people figure this crap out

[Kittycat]

51. This whole caucus thing is insane.

I'll take my ballot over this any day. I get the excitement and all, but still.

[me b zola]

52. Yes, it suppresses the vote/caucus

[CentralMass]

55. Yes. It is complete bullshit. This is the third states where bullshit has ocuured.

[musicblind]

58. Oh absolutely. That's not a partisan issue. It is simply a shame.

Every person who wants to vote should get to vote.

[wildeyed]

60. I agree.

If people take the time to show up, they should be able to vote.

Other reasons I think caucuses, in general, are a crock. No early vote, no absentee. What about the disabled, those who need to work, parents of small children who can't get childcare. Even coming down with a heinous cold or the flu means you might not be able to vote. Car breaks down.... on and on.

[restorefreedom]

61. according to twitter

these are just some of the problems

traffic
long lines
people in charge not knowing what they are doing
not enough forms
people misrepresenting themselves trying to trick people
problems getting registered

is is a travesty in 2016

[Karma13612]

78. I was hoping IA was the warning that we needed to have

all the t's crossed and all the i's dotted.

This is not looking good.

I am really sick of saying:

"This makes me sick."

[restorefreedom]

95. fox news right now, commentator is calling for the end of caucuses

you know its bad when fox news is standing up for a broken system....

[demmiblue]

67. I think we all can agree on that (with the exception of a troll or two). n/t

[DAMANgoldberg]

68. National primary day...

Set aside a date, such as the 1st Saturday in April, for presidential primaries with early voting and vote by mail or secured internet options. Then have a national run-off date with the top 2 candidates in the Republican, Democratic, and Non-affiliated parties 1 month later if necessary. If you want to make it later in the year to compress the cycle, that would be fine with me.

[potone]

96. I think this is an excellent idea.

Our system is profoundly anti-democratic. People who live on the West Coast have very little say in who the nominee is. It is absurd that a state with the population of California has less influence than a state with the population of New Hampshire, Iowa or Nevada. And while we are at it, we need to get rid of the Electoral College too, and have a national vote for president.

[jeff47]

119. Bad idea.

There's a long history of "unknown" candidates coming from nowhere to win the primary. That is not possible with a national primary day.

A national primary day makes it all about the media.

[MisterP]

69. it's basically turning democracy and turnout against itself

[kstewart33]

75. Who likes caucuses? But she winning by 4% which is a solid win, not a nail biter.

On to South Carolina. Things are getting interesting.

[MerryBlooms]

76. It's a piss poor system.

Unless those voters in caucus states put the pressure on for change, it is what it is.

[Metric System]

80. Absolutely. I wish all states would scrap caucuses and go the primary route.

[Nevernose]

81. I AM STILL IN THE FUCKING CAUCUS ROOM

It's a clusterfuck because so many people left early for work. The lines waits and crowds were huge, we had to move to the orchestra room

[Hoyt]

82. You'd think all those millennials supposedly for Sanders would stick it out.

I do think more polling places is better than less. I also like absentee and on-line voting. Everyone should have an opportunity.

[brooklynite]

86. You object to the LINE...

...so if everyone shows up at once, that's anti-Democratic?

[geek tragedy]

92. It's a caucus--everyone is required to show up at the same time. nt

[brooklynite]

93. No, registration opened an hour before-hand.

[geek tragedy]

94. One whole hour nt

[randome]

100. I agree, more time for caucuses and for elections.

It's the only way we can deal with our ever-expanding population.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[George II]

89. No, we can't agree. That has happened everywhere in every election. People in Harlem back....

....in 2008 waited 6-8 hours to get in, very few left without voting.

[JI7]

114. But they should not have had to wait that long

[pat_k]

97. Outrageous. Time to push orgs and office holders to make election protection a priority...

... and to push any state Democratic Party responsible for running caucuses to fix their systems!

Ensuring that every American can easily cast their vote and have that vote accurately counted is fundamental. And too often it's a forgotten issue. For example:

>> Democracy for America doesn't list voting rights/election protection on its list of "Issues We Care About."

>> MoveOn.org doesn't have a campaign related to voting rights/election protection.

>> NDN doesn't include voting rights/election protection on its list of programs.

>> Progressive Policy Institute doesn't include voting rights/election protection on its list of issues.

As far as Congress and Senate members -- I visited a few sites. No sign of "Voter Access Protection/Election Integrity" as a priority.

The ONLY place I found "Voter Access Protection/Election Integrity" listed as an issue/campaign is on the Progressive Democrats of America site. (Cheers for them!)

I've occasionally asked a speaker at a forum I attended why election protection isn't a priority for their organization. "I don't know" was the usual answer. Sometimes "it should be." Once I was flabbergasted when a person from NDN said she thought it was an issue for the parties. Sure, caucuses are run by Parties and they need to be pushed to fix their systems, but primaries and general elections are run by the state. Ensuring we can vote, and have those votes accurately counted, is central to the integrity of our government. As such, it is an issue for our government. And it's an issue that political organizations and office holders need to make a priority.

Years ago I did my own little letter writing / faxing campaign calling on selected groups and office holders to make election protection an issue. Time to do it again. If more of us find the time to do the same, perhaps we can put this "forgotten issue" on more agendas.

[RedCappedBandit]

105. Caucuses are undemocratic and I am not surprised to see who is in favor of that here. nt

[Omaha Steve]

110. It happened in Nebraska at the 08 caucus

The turnout (it was out first ever) was so heavy at the one location for Sarpy County, the sheriff shut down the road in.

OS

[secondwind]

111. wow, Hillary up by 300 points.. seriously folks, these caucuses are a riot!

[Bad Dog]

115. It just doesn't happen over here, (UK).

Whenever I've voted I've just gone straight in, max three people in front of me.

[Warren DeMontague]

116. Yep.

[treestar]

123. It's still their choice

Geez, I would never leave, especially after putting in several hours.

The lines should not be long and whatever causes them to should be addressed, but if something happens and it is longer, don't give up and go home.

[JustAnotherGen]

130. 100% Agreement

That's shameful.

[Triana]

132. It's written into law in NC

Polls close at 7:00 p.m. Still in line? Too bad. Go home 'cause you ain't votin'. One of their post-VRA actions there.

[UglyGreed]

133. K/R

makes the Democratic Party look not too Democratic....

?

[Liberty Belle]

134. One of them should sue and get this declared unconstitutional disenfranchisement.

[Ken Burch]

135. I've started a NV caucus vote suppression in the Bernie group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280122285

Please post whatever documentation you have on this there. Thanks.

[TBF]

139. DNC: undemocratic and exclusionary. K&R nt