Will nominating Hillary hand the White House to the GOP?

[TIME TO PANIC]

I'm worried that if Hillary is the nominee she will lose in November. I know it's early, but all the polls have Consistently shown Hillary losing to most of the republican candidates in the general election. Another thing that concerns me is her negative favorability ratings. I just don't see how she's electable.

[TheProgressive]

1. Yes...

[HillDawg]

2. Polls

Right now have nothing to do with what will happen in November.

[TIME TO PANIC]

14. I hope you're right, if she's the nominee. n/t

[daleanime]

128. So what miracle will she perform...

to get people to support more war, more bad 'trade' deals, and, most importantly, a person they don't trust?

[CorporatistNation]

131. THIS Might Just Be The "Tonic" That Hillary Is Looking For...

Her compulsion...

&ebc=ANyPxKqcDIMN0to9Uaj7nC0QQqvQI0ud03I2_Rxg_uFOVbP_EWV1QRFFGEyXw5oClpJs22ba4b65_OUqxxXhjmh6bSFK8wYRZA

[Ford F-150]

3. Yep...

Cruz or Trump or maybe both...

[basselope]

4. Unless Cruz is the nominee.. she doesn't stand a chance.

[peacebird]

5. Yes.

[restorefreedom]

6. on a silver platter. nt

[TTUBatfan2008]

7. Both are flawed

I think the Republicans have some built-in advantages this year. Enthusiasm gap is definitely favoring the GOP so far based on primary voting.

[daleanime]

130. Bernie and Hillary are the same?

No.

[TTUBatfan2008]

137. Different flaws

Both vulnerable in a general election for different reasons.

[farleftlib]

8. Yes

The only thing they hate more than Obama is Hillary Clinton. And that's saying a lot.

[redstateblues]

18. the thought of a Socialist in the White House

would have Republicans turning out in droves. I know a lot of Republicans - they don't like Hillary- Mention Bernie and they start screaming "Bernie Sanders is a Socialist". Much more passion about that.

[farleftlib]

25. That's not my experience

It's a reflex with them to foam at the mouth when they hear that last name. With Bernie, they just shrug and say 'meh'.

[TIME TO PANIC]

36. They've called Obama a socialist for 7 years now.

The label 'socialist' has lost its stigma.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. Exactly.

[intrepidity]

9. My gut agrees with you

My head and heart are trying hard to not listen to my gut, though.

[libtodeath]

10. In a lanslide

[amborin]

97. yes

[CentralMass]

11. In a manner of speaking.

[firebrand80]

12. Many will be "concerned" nt

[redstateblues]

13. Hillary is our best chance to win

Bernie has a good message but he has so many things that make him unelectable. The Republicans would much rather face Bernie for a good reason.

[Odin2005]

28. LOL.

I think you have Hillary and Bernie mixed up. The POLLS say that Hillary cannot beat the GOP.

[Gothmog]

85. Those polls are worthless and should not be relied on

Dana Milbank has some good comments on general election match up polls https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-would-be-insane-to-nominate-bernie-sanders/2016/01/26/0590e624-c472-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Sanders and his supporters boast of polls showing him, on average, matching up slightly better against Trump than Clinton does. But those matchups are misleading: Opponents have been attacking and defining Clinton for a quarter- century, but nobody has really gone to work yet on demonizing Sanders.

Watching Sanders at Monday night’s Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump — or another Republican nominee — would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.

The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the “socialist” label and requested that Sanders define it “so that it doesn’t concern the rest of us citizens.”

Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who don’t want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: “Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top — that’s my definition of democratic socialism.”

But that’s not how Republicans will define socialism — and they’ll have the dictionary on their side. They’ll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. They’ll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldn’t be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists don’t win national elections in the United States .

Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases — “one of the biggest tax hikes in history,” as moderator Chris Cuomo put it — to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that “hypothetically, you’re going to pay $5,000 more in taxes,” and declared, “W e will raise taxes, yes we will.” He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that “it’s demagogic to say, oh, you’re paying more in taxes.”

Well, yes — and Trump is a demagogue.

Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government “bigger than ever,” Sanders didn’t quarrel, saying, “P eople want to criticize me, okay,” and “F ine, if that’s the criticism, I accept it.”

Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.

Match up polls are worthless because these polls do not measure what would happen to Sanders in a general election where Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads.

[Odin2005]

88. LOL, whatever.

I could not give less of a shit what the chattering punditocracy says.

[Gothmog]

142. You will need something that is more realistic to show that Sanders is viable in the general

I keep asking this question but have yet to receive a good answer. How will Sanders compete in the general election where the Kochs will be spending $887 million, the RNC candidate may spend another billion dollars and Bloomberg (who will only run if Sanders is the nominee) will be spending another billion dollars.

[CorporatistNation]

133. What Are They Going To Demonize Sanders For? Being Honest?

As compared to THIS...

&ebc=ANyPxKqcDIMN0to9Uaj7nC0QQqvQI0ud03I2_Rxg_uFOVbP_EWV1QRFFGEyXw5oClpJs22ba4b65_OUqxxXhjmh6bSFK8wYRZA

[Gothmog]

141. These worthless polls do not help the claim that Sanders is electable

If you really believe this, then open an Irish brokerage account and buy an option agreement based on Clinton losing the general election. You would get great odds http://predictwise.com/politics/2016-president-democratic-nomination The odds of Hillary Clinton being the nominee went up by several percentage points last night after the Nevada results

[Logical]

55. I agree, the GOP voters will love Hillary. nt

[Beowulf]

61. Good luck with that line of thinking.

You've got no data to support it. Just a lot of magical thinking.

[Lorien]

77. The facts say otherwise:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/02/18/1487044/-Qunnipiac-National-Poll-Bernie-beats-all-Republicans-Hillary-loses-to-all

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/266086-gop-chairman-would-rather-face-clinton-than-sanders

[MohRokTah]

15. No. eom

[HooptieWagon]

16. Yes. But the corporate masters don't care if a corporatist D or corporatist R is elected.

DWS's orders are to make sure a liberal populist isn't elected, not to ensure a Democrat winning.

[kath]

41. true dat.

Sadly, that is all too true.

[SammyWinstonJack]

100. Either one and the 1% are safe, which is all that matters.

[yourpaljoey]

17. yep

[Waiting For Everyman]

19. YES! Check this out (TYT)

If the Democratic Party got behind Sanders instead of fighting him, we could not only elect him, we could have a Democratic Congress as well. But the Party doesn't want that, because then, they'd have no choice but to vote for their own party's reforms that they don't want to happen.

That's the problem in a nutshell. The current Dem Party is the billionaires' firewall.

[Punkingal]

20. Yes.

[Broward]

21. Probably, but you never know.

One thing's for sure though. In a Hillary v. Repub matchup, TPTB win and most people lose.

[dflprincess]

112. Exactly nt

[krawhitham]

22. YES

[whatchamacallit]

23. Undoubtedly n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. "Hillary will Lose the General" Thread #4

Will we have this every time she wins a primary?

[liberal N proud]

26. Time to panic

[TIME TO PANIC]

39. I will be if she's nominated. n/t

[Odin2005]

27. The polls say Hillary is a LOSER, especially against Trump.

[deathrind]

29. Yes.

[Purveyor]

30. I'm still waiting for the FBI report...

[TIME TO PANIC]

43. They're waiting to see if she's the nominee.

... and they'll drop that bomb during the general.

[Lil Missy]

31. no. She has a better chance of winning than Bernie

[TIME TO PANIC]

56. Why?

[Lil Missy]

63. Simple - she has more national support than Bernie does.

And frankly, I don't care why - I just care that we win the Presidency.

[Lorien]

73. Oh hell NO she doesn't!

Repus will turn out in droves to crush her, liberal deems will write in Bernie or vote for Jill Stein, and Independents don't trust her. No candidate with a negative rating even half as high as hers is as ever won the Presidency. She's a disaster for the party!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/02/18/1487044/-Qunnipiac-National-Poll-Bernie-beats-all-Republicans-Hillary-loses-to-all

[YOHABLO]

87. Liberal Dems see her as disingenuous, and I get that. I don't know if they'll vote for her.

[Lorien]

122. It's not just "Liberal Dems"; heck, this bit of weirdness came all the way from Taiwan!

[marions ghost]

99. I agree

I think we are lost if Hill is the nominee.

[TIME TO PANIC]

80. No she doesn't.

Only among likely democratic primary voters, and she's losing that support day by day. If you don't want a republican in the White House, support Sanders.

[hifiguy]

32. She's a disaster waiting to happen in the GE.

A Hindenburg/Titanic type of disaster. Completely turns off the left/liberal base. Zero appeal to independents, and the Repig base will do everything short of coming out of graves to vote against her. She's worth somewhere between 1 and 3 million additional Repig votes nationwide. Well-earned, very Nixon-like ratings for honesty and trustworthiness.

She will lead the party off a cliff to a Goldwater-like stomping.

How ironic.

And that is assuming she isn't indicted before the election.

[azmom]

33. Yes. The young people will not vote for her.

[Rybak187]

34. Probably

[Nite Owl]

35. From everything I've read

it seems that way. It's hard to overcome the not trustworthy thing. What she says now will change if she becomes President and most people know that.

[Arazi]

37. Yes, the head to head match up numbers are pretty bad

[Blue_In_AK]

38. It makes it more likely, in my opinion,

and, of course, depending on who the Republican nominee is.

[Orangepeel]

40. Whoever wins the primary is the best chance to win the general

Whatever reason a Hillary/Bernie has that Hillary/Bernie would have a better chance at beating the republican doesn't hold water if she/he can't even beat the other.

The nominee might lose, but if so, I don't believe that it will be because we nominated the wrong person. If Hillary loses to Bernie, it means she was a lousy candidate. If Bernie loses to Hillary, it will mean that the enthusiasm that was supposed to propel his campaign wasn't enough.

[TransitJohn]

42. Almost certainly.

She being the nominee will be the trifecta of bad. It'll depress Democratic turnout (especially among the young), turn away Independents, and energize the Republicans, greatly increasing their turnout. Her unfavorables alone right now should be cause for alarm, not to mention how bad the email shit will be in the Fall.

[tularetom]

44. No doubt in my mind, especially in light of the GOP results in SC

I've heard Trump blame the entire Iraq mess on Bush, I haven't heard Hillary Clinton do it, or Obama.

People are sick of all this mealy mouthed centrist bullshit, they want something different.

Bernie Sanders could offer it. Trump can offer it, whether we like him or not. Clinton is more of the same. Plus theres all that Clinton baggage.

[dana_b]

45. I think that you're right

she will lose to them if she is nominated. But for some reason, people are still voting for someone that they don't trust. Look at the polls in NV on trust. Maybe some people will just go along and vote for the name that they know without thinking about the issues. I don't get it.

With that being said, EVERYONE knows Trumps name.

[mckara]

47. A Lot of Democrats Won't Vote for Another Clinton

One was enough!

[840high]

62. My family won't vote for her.

[plus5mace]

48. Most likely.

If it makes you feel better remember life is absurd and meaningless. Everything man builds will eventually turn to dust, and all our efforts will eventually be in vain. So when President Trump puts Judge Judy on the Supreme Court, it is just the natural process of entropy. You can fight it, but you can't expect to win.

[TIME TO PANIC]

50. I loved Carlin's take on it.

[jfern]

49. Yes, you don't win with a 67% not honest and trustworthy rating

[Jarqui]

57. Nor all the other baggage ... which hasn't all been vetted by the GOP yet nt

[SoLeftIAmRight]

51. YES

...

[bkkyosemite]

52. Absolutely (there were too many Yes)

[NowSam]

53. yes

yes

[warrprayer]

54. It doesn't matter

That Bernie has a better chance against the GOP.
The party is going to make sure she gets the nomination.

[TIME TO PANIC]

58. I'm afraid you're right.

It's their job to preserve the status quo at all costs.

[Ford F-150]

59. I could not agree more...

[onecaliberal]

60. Yes, the number one word associated with Clinton is liar

[Todays_Illusion]

64. The big money consider her to be a good as a Republican, they will be happy to have

Hillary in the White House they don't care which party label she wears.


And that is why I support Bernie Sanders.

[TIME TO PANIC]

65. Exactly. n/t

[bvar22]

66. Short answer?

Hillary has no chance of wining the GE.
NONE....ZERO.

[slipslidingaway]

67. There are many people who will not vote for Clinton, I am fairly certain that Clinton will not ...

win the GE if she is the nominee.

[TIME TO PANIC]

69. Look on the bright side.

If we have a republican president, they will probably be in office for only one term. If Hillary wins, that's at least 8 years of a conservative in the White House.

[Robbins]

81. there is no bright side to clinton as nominee

she is sure loser In GE.once republicans have total control of government they will never lose it.

[TIME TO PANIC]

96. Well, Bernie is still in this thing, so lets not let that happen. n/t

[Robbins]

98. bernie can't win

any state with a caucus instead of primary is lost cause.tonight proves it.

blacks are still voting heavily for her as nevada shows.them and senior citizens seem detmined to vote clinton no matter what.
SC is lost cause.so clinton will win 3 of first 4 states.MSM will scrub any details away from Iowa and nevada so they are wins no matter what.

[TIME TO PANIC]

105. We have 47 states left, and a week until South Carolina.

He's been consistently climbing in the state and national poles. It would've been a tremendous help if he won Nevada, but it wasn't a landslide. Stay positive and don't help the corporate media control the narrative.

[Robbins]

108. SC is lost cause

best case sceniros is he loses by only 10%

like nevada black vote will break heavily for clinton.

soon clinton campagain and MSM will be able to say going into super tuesday she won 3 out of 4 states.noone will remember
contorvousy In Iowa and Nevada.

[TIME TO PANIC]

109. A lot can happen in a week, and think of how far he's come with everything rigged against him. n/t

[Robbins]

110. if bernie couldn't win neva he won't SC

only thing he can do is try to keep it close.

[Live and Learn]

126. It is the number of delegates that matter. Right now Bernie is only down one pledged delegate.

He just needs to keep it close enough in delegate counts to hit the big states.

[Eko]

68. I dont know,

I left my crystal ball that could see into the future at work, Ill check it out for you when I get it back. Is this a real question? Its as stupid as asking the same thing about Sanders. Get a grip people.

[TIME TO PANIC]

71. Struck a nerve? n/t

[Eko]

76. Yeah,

stupid questions seem to have that effect on me.

[TIME TO PANIC]

92. I'll tell you what's stupid, believing Hillary is going to be able to win the general election,

without the youth or progressives showing up on election day.

[Eko]

117. Well well,

I don't believe I ever said that though did I? Lets just stick to what we have said ok?

[Lorien]

70. She's awful enough that the Taiwanese made one of those trippy videos about her:

[TIME TO PANIC]

72. Disturbing.

[Arazi]

104. Wow. Just OMG, make this an OP please?

I'm really depressed and need a drink now

[Lorien]

121. Feel free to make it an OP

I've had so many posts hidden lately (over truly minor things) that I'm keeping to FB for now.

[Arazi]

123. Lol, I have one hide so I have slack. I'll do it in the am

this late and it'll drop off.

In the morning though...



What shocks me is how clearly they see this election. They've blown through the bullshit and understand the corporate money/secret government bullshit.

If it's so apparent over there, it's just sickens me so many Americans can't see through the MSM propaganda and see it clearly here.

[Lorien]

124. We're certainly a great source of entertainment for them!

[Le Taz Hot]

74. Guaranteed.

The millennials I've been talking to have almost to the person said they will NOT vote for Hillary.

[juajen]

93. Millenials

I am sick of hearing the word millenial.

[Le Taz Hot]

120. Try winning without them.

And without the fucking retards. Her base are blind party loyalists and Wall Street. That's it. Not enough to win.

[mcar]

75. No

[Depaysement]

78. No

TPTB have designated her the next President.

[ladjf]

79. IMO, yes, it will hand the Presidency to Trump. nt

[napi21]

82. Absolutely NOT! Why would you say something like that> nt

[TIME TO PANIC]

86. I hope you're right. n/t

[Nonhlanhla]

83. It sounds to me

as if some Bernie supporters would LIKE Hillary to lose the GE.

She will only lose the GE if Bernie supporters don't vote for her. Just as Bernie would lose the GE if he were the nominee and Hillary supporters don't show up. We need each other, warts and all. In the end its us vs. the GOP.

In any case, it all depends on who they nominate. If it's Trump, which seems increasingly likely, Hilary will beat him. Given demographic shifts, he'd need about 42% of the Hispanic vote. He's very unlikely to get it.

If it's Rubio, it might be another story. But both Bernie and Hillary might have a harder time against him.

[TIME TO PANIC]

90. True.

I know a few Sanders supporters who refuse to vote for Hillary. They feel that Hillary will be more of the same, and they have nothing to lose. This wouldn't be a problem if we had a candidate who they knew would fight for the poor and working class, oh wait a minute, we do have one, Bernie Sanders.

[craigmatic]

84. I know democrats who won't vote for her and I'm not talking about people on the forums either but

on the bright side trump might just scare enough people into voting for Hillary.

[TIME TO PANIC]

91. The idea of a Trump presidency should be embarrassing enough to make people vote,

but then again, they voted for Reagan twice, and W once.

[totodeinhere]

89. Not necessarily but she will have a harder time winning than Bernie would.

She would benefit from the solid blue Electoral College wall. But the thing is, Hillary would not be good for this country. I am convinced of that. We need Bernie to win and that remains very possible.

[TIME TO PANIC]

95. Yes, Bernie is definitely still in this thing.

Hillary would probably squeak by, but we would be crushed down ticket.

[rosesaylavee]

94. Yes.

[Ino]

101. Yes it would. Absolutely.

Depressed Dem turnout due to...
- lack of enthusiasm
- she's inevitable, why bother
- youth lose interest
- Bernie fans who stay home, write in, vote for third party, vote for Republican

Elevated Rep turnout due to...
- a Clinton
- Hillary

No votes from Independents

No votes from cross-over Republicans

[cheapdate]

102. I don't know.

[Bjornsdotter]

103. I don't know

I've seen a lot of people who have said that they will not vote for her. I don't know if wounds would heal by November.

I just don't know.....

[asuhornets]

106. no

[CBGLuthier]

107. Yep.

[PeteSelman]

111. Only against Rubio.

She'll beat Trump or Cruz.

Rubio is a little weasel putz but he'll win the general over Hillary because of generational politics. Cruz is young but he's such an asshole he can't win a general.

[TIME TO PANIC]

115. Rubio, interesting, I think he would have the toughest time.

When people see his record in the senate he's finished. I think he's in it for VP. I could be wrong, If you asked me six months ago I would have said Bush, Walker, or Paul would be the front-runners.

[LW1977]

113. No

People who say otherwise should be ashamed of themselves!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

114. Yes because she is a liability

She is probably the only candidate who is being investigated by the FBI. She has a barrel load of scandals and is a serial flip-flopper. She is not particularly liked world-wide. I wouldn't be surprised if the republicans try to get her to be the nominee so they can BBQ her.

[TIME TO PANIC]

116. Not to mention that she has alienated at least half of the democratic base. n/t

[Attorney in Texas]

118. Only if she wins the nomination, and it's not too late to stop that travesty.

[TIME TO PANIC]

119. Exactly, we have 47 states to go. n/t

[Live and Learn]

125. Yes. nt

[daleanime]

127. Yes.

[Jon Ace]

129. Any dem will crush Trump

That's for certain.

[begin_within]

132. If it's Hillary vs. Trump, the White House is handed to the entrenched big money interests.

[Kablooie]

134. No. It will hand it to Trump. He's not the GOP.

[TIME TO PANIC]

135. Yeah, he has his own agenda, and I don't want to find out what it is. n/t

[GoneFishin]

136. Yes. Republicans will cut off their trigger fingers to vote against her, & progressives would rather

eat a shit sandwich than vote for a dirty trickster.

[hollowdweller]

138. Yes, and it may be a good thing.

Trump is to the left of Hillary on economic issues.

[workinclasszero]

139. Stop worrying

In U.S., Socialist Presidential Candidates Least Appealing

by Justin McCarthy

Americans show most bias toward socialists (47%), atheists (58%)


http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

Looks like we escaped a sure defeat if Bernie was the nominee.

[TIME TO PANIC]

140. I'm sure most of the people polled don't even know what a socialist is.

Having Sanders in the GE will be a great opportunity to educate them.

That poll was conducted to continue the myth that America is a center-right country, I don't care how reliable Gallup is, I'm not buying it.