2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy is SBS campaign honcho Tad Devine appearing on Faux Noise Sunday today? My answer: 16 open
Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:04 AM - Edit history (1)
primaries starting in SC Saturday, primarily throughout the South. That's the same reason I suspected SBS himself went on FNS last Sunday.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEWS_SHOWS?SITE=AP
SC is only the first of 16 open primaries to come, primarily throughout the South, but also in several red states in the Midwest. See the first table up from the bottom of the page at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presscheduledidential_primaries_2016
In order of their scheduled dates, open Democratic primaries will be held in SC AL AR GA TN TX VT VA MI MS IL WI IN PR MT and ND. In addition, there will be open caucuses in MN ID and WA. In all of these open primaries and caucuses, for reasons elaborated below the all-caps subtitle, Republicans CAN, strategically and temporarily, vote for Senator BS, to tilt the GE toward a Republican victory over an unvetted "protest candidate." IMO, this is the apparent reason Senator BS savaged HRC on Faux Noise Sunday last weekend. To paraphrase a character in a movie about an itinerant penniless baseball team touring the South during the Depression. the question Senator BS seems to be asking is, "What is it that the South NEVER will run out of?"
Apparently SBS is not satisfied with the lift he's already gotten from Trey Gowdy, the Benghazi Committee, the Planned Parenthood Committee, R-appointed judges' orders to dribble out a few more confidential emails just before every primary or caucus, etc, etc.
No, SBS and Devine are going straight to the source: Ailes and Murdoch. Talk about catering to the "Billionaire Class". IMO this is unprecedented political hypocrisy.
WHY WOULD WHITE REPUBLICANS CROSS OVER TO THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, OTHER THAN JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN?
In SC,
"Clinton has the support of 59 percent of the states African-American Democrats, while Sanders has one-third of that (20 percent). Sanders is ahead of Clinton 45 to 42 percent with whites and holds a much wider margin for whites under 45 67 percent to her 22 percent. See http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-south-carolina-poll-219452 Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-south-carolina-poll-219452
IMO, part of this SBS advantage with SC whites may come from strategic thinking by white Republicans who do not want to waste their votes, even if they favor The Donald over the others still riding in the Clown Car. Some whites who supported candidates who already have dropped out Huckabuck, Krispy Kreme, Carly or who may do so imminently -may be dissatisfied with remaining alternatives. So, to increase the odds of a Republican victory in November, they may support SBS temporarily and strategically to make a Democratic victory less likely in the GE.
Other Rs who support the R frontrunner may assess that hes so far out in front of the others hell win even without their votes. So again, strategically and temporarily, theyll vote for SBS to soften Democrats up for the GE in November. Heres a photo that may explain why SBS went on Fox News Sunday last weekend
(see my post below)
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:56 AM - Edit history (1)
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)While Hillary continues to compulsively...
&ebc=ANyPxKqcDIMN0to9Uaj7nC0QQqvQI0ud03I2_Rxg_uFOVbP_EWV1QRFFGEyXw5oClpJs22ba4b65_OUqxxXhjmh6bSFK8wYRZAProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)is more like it. Personally getting in bed with Ailes and Murdoch, while accusing HRC of looking out for the "Billionaire class", is sleazy and utterly cynical, IMO.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)He has genuine crossover appeal because his is an economic message that takes back the economy for the 99%.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)The mathematics of voting in an ostensibly small-D democratic election are ruthless. GE campaign ads can be expected to shift marginally the votes, by just a percent or two, of only a few people in the center of the political spectrum. Senator BS is far from the mainstream that usually decides Presidential elections by razonr-thin margins.
I fear millenials will riot in Philly in July against HRC, just the way they rioted against HHH in Chicago's Grant Park in 1968. Such naive misbehavior could upset an evenly split General Electorate, with thousands on the cusp between HRC and former House "welfare reformer" John Kasich.
Millenials could be either the margin of a razor-thin Democratic victory, or, as in 1968 a razor-thin Democratic loss. We greyhairs realize intuitively that that is the usual election ballgame, and refrain from supporting anyone who's on the extremes.
Millenials with some grey matter might benefit from googling "median voter", and hitting http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theory
Fearless
(18,421 posts)That he has the guts to stand up to them is an honorable position IMHO.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)last year, IMO.
The GE is like the Super Bowl, and Democratic primaries and caucuses are like the playoffs.
What SBS and Tad Devine are doing on the Tea Party Channel IMO is as "honorable" as surreptitiously tampering with the playoff final ball to make it easier to throw and to catch. Just like NE, SBS and his surrogates are trying to cheat their way to the Super Bowl. But unlike NE SBS is destined to lose the Big Game should this trickery manage to get him the nomination in July.
Bernie's big problem with Democrats is among PoC, very few of whom watch FNS.
No, if SBS and his surrogates are going on FNS, the demographic they're trying to reach MUST be white Rs considering crossing over for strategic voting for SBS. For example, Rs who intended to vote for a Clown Car primary candidate yesterday, but did not make it to the polls, have a second chance on th 27th. A primary vote for SBS is equivalent to a GE vote for a generic R, IMO.
Now let me get back to cleaning up Autocomplete damage to the OP.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Bernie goes on Fox and calls them on their bullshit.
There's NOTHING wrong with that.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)last Sunday was the first time since Senator BS announced his candidacy last May.
Ask yourself .Why? Why never before on FNS until just before the first open primary?
Fearless
(18,421 posts)ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)'For the first time since he announced his candidacy, Bernie Sanders will join Chris Wallace on "Fox News Sunday."'
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/02/12/bernie-sanders-and-marco-rubio-fox-news-sunday-february-14
Rocky the Leprechaun
(222 posts)ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)posting on a moving bus are not my friends. I think everything is sufficiently readable now thigh I have yet to find and edit in one more link.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)according to leading media critic Frank Rich last year:
"Hard as it may be to fathom, Fox Nation is even more monochromatically white than the GOP is, let alone the American nation. Two percent of Mitt Romneys voters were black.
According to new Nielsen data, only 1.1 percent of Fox Newss prime-time viewership is (as opposed to 25 percent for MSNBC, 14 percent for CNN, and an average of roughly 12 percent for the three broadcast networks evening news."
http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/fox-news-2014-2/index2.html
jillan
(39,451 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)We Dems are gonna show up and support her should she win. That went really well for president Kerry.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)to Ailes, Murdoch, and the Tea Party, IMO. They're colluding with them against HRC and the PoC she listens to and prioritizes issues for, IMO.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)What was the real reason Pres. Obama allowed himself to be interviewed by Bill O'Reilly?
Perhaps he was secretly interviewing for a FOX News gig when he leaves the White House?
I have some tinfoil hats for sale.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)What's your alternative explanation for why SBS made his first campaign appearance on FNS last Sunday. Why then? And why his surrogate Devine today?
If an explanation predicts the future successfully, it's scientific, not conspiratorial. I predict SBS and his surrogates won't be able to stay away from Faux over the next month. Watch and see if I'm right and you're just blowing smoke.
Also, what's your explanation for this photo:
""
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Paranoia isn't a good look my friend.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)Turn on Bandwidth/Display images to SEE just above your post that what I'm talking about in this thread is all too real and sad.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 11:12 PM - Edit history (1)
Relax, what you should be worried about is all of the Bernie supporters who've vowed to never vote for Hillary. If a significant amount of Bernie's support stays home Hillary loses.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)please read the last paragraph of my "Common sense" post number 19 below.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)Impedimentus
(898 posts)An anecdote of no consequence.
Why isn't Jeb wearing one of those tee shirts?
What's the going price of a used tin foil hat?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)even the freepers are now getting it that bernie will beat whovever they put up.
in the most ironic turn of events so far, freepers are holding their noses and rooting for hillary. because they want to run against her.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)SBS is a "virgin" when it comes to withstanding stentorian Tea Party psy-ops "music" from the mighty Wurlitzer of far-right propaganda and misinformation.
On the other hand, beginning when she was First Lady of Arkansas decades ago, HRC has taken everything they could throw at her, with a smile and brave wit.
So far, SBS actually has BENEFITED from repeated substantial right-wing help against HRC. Tens of millions of dollars has been spent just since Senator BS announced in May, and hundreds of millions more has been spent over the years to accuse HRC of treason, prevarication, misfeasance in office, sexual "deviancy", and even the alleged assassination of Vince Foster.
Starting with the most recent right-wing noise blared HRC's way over the years the "greatest hits" include R-appointed judges' mandates to dribble out, for the benefit of Senator.BS, a few more confidential emails just before every primary or caucus; being grilled by Trey Gowdy and the tax-funded SBS-favoring Benghazi Committee for 11 hours; a pro-SBS phoney controversy about the very same kind of foreign policy emails, never marked "classified", Colin Powell announced recently he had received as SoS; Whitewater; "Travelgate"; "Hillary hair"; etc., etc, ad infinitum.
But all that "Playoffs" LIFT for Senator SBS would melt away should God forbid Senator BS become the Democratic Nominee at the "Super Bowl" July in Philadelphia. HRC would retire, and the full force of the VRWC would be trained on an unvetted Senator BS.
Republican PACs could spend A BILLION DOLLARS or two saturating the media with smears against SBS. The only limit would be 24 hours in a day times the number of TV and radio stations.
Senator BS has provided Madison Avenue with plenty of grist for that mill. For example,
"We will raise taxes, yes we will."
Ads would have thousands of Congressional, State, and local downticket Democrats morphing into the nobody from nowhere. IMO the political DISASTER for Democrats would FAR eclipse the records set by both George McGovern in 1972 and Barry Goldwater in 1964!
President Kasich or whoever from the Clown Car would get to name and confirm USSC replacements for both Antonin Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsberg. All the voting gains Rep John Lewis and others came inches from death for would be more than reversed. Having a miscarriage could become a Federal felony. The Earned Income Tax Credit and SNAP (food stamps) both would be repealed. The 1935 Social Security Act would be amended to enable workfare for Medicaid eligibility, literally signing a death warrant for tens of thousands of poor people. Etc etc DYSTOPIA!
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)plus she is swamped with baggage. he is not
if the karl roves of the world are stupid enough to not see reality, i certainly can't help them.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)GE preference polls conducted months before conventions and billion-dollar GE campaigns?
Did you even read the post to which you responded?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and yes i read all reply posts.
also, please note in gdp that bernie reiterated today that he is in until the convention.
so it will be up to the people to choose someone whi can beat the gop or not.
have a bernie day!
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)winning. The democratic party is supposed to be the party of the working class person, but it's not. Both parties are for the elite. The Democrats will give the working class a crumb every now and then but it is sold out to the highest bidder.
Millennials understand and want something better, most of them aren't emotionally connected to either corporate party.
Most 38 and under people are independents.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)in an ostensibly small-D democratic election are ruthless. GE campaign ads only can be expected to shift the votes, by just a percent or two, of people in the center of the political spectrum. I fear an evenly split General Electorate, with thousands on the cusp between HRC and former House "welfare reformer" John Kasich.
Millenials could be the margin of a razor-thin Democratic victory, or, as in 1968 a razor-thin Democratic loss. We greyhairs realize intuitively that that is the usual election ballgame, and refrain from supporting anyone who's on the extremes.
Millenials with some grey matter might benefit from googling "median voter", and hitting http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theory
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Sanders and Trump (a repugnant loud mouth asshole) have exposed both parties as being corrupt and sometimes in collusion.
The democratic party is better than the Republican party. I will support Hillary and then switch to independent after the election.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)rational calculation I miss from years past at DU.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Like Bernie?
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)channels. There is nothing quite like selective outrage.
Bad if my opponent does it, but a-okay if my side does it.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)thanks for the morning laugh.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)who so openly courted the openly.white Republican primaries vote with smears against another Democrat in right wing media that very few PoC view?
I'm waiting.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)it worked well. The only thing is that the black vote was not factored in and much to their surprise the candidate they thought would lose in the GE won. i remember well the faint praise put out by the GOP of the upcoming, young senator and what a contrast he was to the "shrill" "femanazi" They just knew that a young black Senator with virtually no executive experience would not be able to win against a national war hero and hard-hitting, gun-toting GOP woman. Well, that didn't work for them then but it sure stands a better chance to work for them now.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)for using your head for more than a hatrack.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)She attended the Fox 10th Anniversary Party and took money from Rupert.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)So anyone who voted yesterday in the SC GOP primary will not be permitted to vote in the Dem primary. I suspect the vast majority of Republicans already voted so there will likely be little effect.
No sure about the other open primary states but I suspect similar rules apply.
https://votesmart.org/elections/voter-registration/SC#.Vsm49ZwrKHs
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)IMO. See the photo below.
SC may be a special case. Are there other open D primary or open D caucus states where the DP takes place a week after the RP?
In all such states, some voters may have intended to vote in the R race, but for one reason or another never made it to the polls. There are only so many hours in a day, especially if you have young children.
Those folks have a second chance to participate in SC, an opportunity that may have an even more durect and bigger impact on the GE outcome than a vote in an RP.
Consider especially naive white R millenials, who may envy the excitement of Senator BS's Berniejugend movement:
""
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)I hate the establishment, but will support the candidate I hate in the GE. I cannot stand her she's dishonest and a neocon, but better than the clown show.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)name has not been mentioned. Did Marco Rubio bump him at the last minute? Rubio was not listed in the AP talk show guestlist at the first link in the OP.
Did Fox anticipate that only a NV win would make an SBS surrogate newsworthy?
Oh the ignominy, if so!
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)during the last 5 of FNS, as "Power Player of the Week". This after a segment where Chris Wallace bashed HRC as a divisive liar.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)above, and then get back to me here.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)But all candidates go on TV to accomplish some campaign objective. If it is some conspiracy by the Fox/GOP axis, I'd simply say that if Clinton were to accept their ongoing invitation to her, they'd put her on anytime.
Sanders is doing it to speak to the Fox audience and perhaps gain some votes, that's par for the course in politics.
Clinton did it in 2008. Obama did it in 2008. Sanders is doing it this year.....Clinton will if she decides there is a need to.
thesquanderer
(11,992 posts)...that they may actually prefer to have Sanders available to vote for in November.
But most of them will never consider voting for Hillary.
Which is another reason they may vote for Sanders in the primary... it's one more way to be sure that Hillary does not become president. If a Dem might win, they'd rather it were Bernie.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)post from you, worth considering, but, IMO, unlikely to be happening.
I do think that some millenials on the R side may envy the excitement and camaraderie of "feeling the Bern". But IMO, real 180 degree political turnaround are extremely rare.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)"Face the Nation". IMO Kasich is the most Nixon-like cynical and cruel pol in the Clown car. My nightmare scenario is that, as in 1968, millenials will riot in Philly against HRC, and the dystopia I envisioned at the end of my post number 19 above will come into being.