2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumgwheezie
(3,580 posts)And I have tried.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)bjobotts
(9,141 posts)cleopotrick
(79 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I can't remember the last time I purposely went out of my way to listen/watch a pundit. I thought ko was very watchable.
I try to find the original source and read the references in its entirety in order to gather information.
There are writing styles I enjoy but listening to opinion is my least favorite way to form an opinion.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Duval
(4,280 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)or tell you that the messenger is too difficult to listen to.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)rufus dog
(8,419 posts)I listen almost daily, he almost always defends Obama. He is very non confrontational, you should give him a listen.
Duval
(4,280 posts)His program is not beholden to Corporations who tell pundits what they can and cannot say. I have never heard him say something that was untrue. And if he ever mischaracterizes anyone or anything, he will apologize and correct his remarks. I sometimes worry about his safety.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)think
(11,641 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)scottie55
(1,400 posts)But other than TPP PBO needs all the support he can get.
TPP Not So Much
It will hurt millions like every sucky trade deal.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Chakab
(1,727 posts)with similar viewpoints are.
Pathetic.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Nedsdag
(2,437 posts)Because he's a progressive?
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I have no idea who he supports
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)bullshit. you are now on total ignore.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I admit to only briefly attempting to watch him since but could never get through an entire program.
senz
(11,945 posts)He's also intelligent, honest, and decent.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)be picked up by others.
why? too liberal for you?
merrily
(45,251 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I found W unwatchable, so I didn't watch. It make me sick to my stomach to even try.
I find Hillary unwatchable. I tried in debate #1. Haven't watched a debate since. Only watch small snippets of her now, as necessary to show her track record. Once the primaries are over, I will never, ever watch her again. She makes me as sick to my stomach as W did.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)japple
(9,839 posts)is much easier. Try it. Put up a cute kitten pic while you listen to him. Same thing with TYT. I have a hard time watching it, but I can listen.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I really can't watch a segment until the end, I feel bored and distracted so looking at baby goats might make it easier.
senz
(11,945 posts)I doubt anyone could seriously object to your hijacking this thread since your personal response to Mr. Hartmann is so riveting.
It doesn't really matter that Hartmann dissects an intricately dishonest accusation leveled against Bernie Sanders by Hillary Clinton. Surely her complete lack of principle is of no importance in this presidential race. After all, character is but a trivial concern when choosing the leader of the free world.
Hartmann should try to be more entertaining.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)If I said what I would like to it would be hidden.
Riveting. Absolutely.
japple
(9,839 posts)or in print. I find it very distracting to watch most news programs. I can watch clips of things like Colbert or John Oliver, for example.
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)We call him Professor or Doctor because he's so knowledgeable yet speaks in the tongue of the modern man. Always truthful.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I rarely watch TV for information and never listen to talk radio. I do enjoy when fstv or link has a documentary or lecture on but opinion talk shows are boring to me.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)a post showing Amy Goodman this morning.
Both Amy and Thom are effective, wonderful voices for the liberal view.
But then, my mother could not watch Rachel Maddow, and I really like her or at least I used to. I haven't watched her in a long time.
What do you not like about Thom Hartmann's show? You must be liberal because you like Eleanor Roosevelt. Interesting.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Petrushka
(3,709 posts)Thank you for posting something WORTH taking time to watch and listen to before I decided to comment and give it a thumbs-uo or a thumbs-down.
ebayfool
(3,411 posts)People that take the time to listen will get it. Those with closed minds will refuse to give the video a look.
The fact she has this guy on the payroll shows just how corrupt Clinton really is!
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)And when that guy tells Hillary to attack Bernie for voting for that bill...well...that takes super guts.
MuseRider
(34,119 posts)It is certainly true what Thom says. What a circuitous lie this was from her. Factually correct but without merit as an attack if all the information was made available at the time she was saying this. Interesting, the people on her team. I would not want to be in a mile of any of them.
I don't know how they do this.
senz
(11,945 posts)It is the epitome of an "artful smear," but so too was her expression, "artful smear" when she hurled it at Bernie.
It's kind of you to blame it on her team. I hold her directly responsible for what she says and does.
I would not want to be within a mile of her, her team, and those of her followers who understand what she does and still follow her.
I don't know how they do this, either.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)when she talks about a subject this important in such a dishonest fashion.
Bernie has our back and Hillary behaves like a snake in the grass.
She has the gall to attack Bernie on this when one of the engineers of the great recession, who slyly inserted this time bomb personally.....is her chief economic adviser? That alone should disqualify her....no wonder she doesn't know that the banks are already too big to fail.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)More like worm in the dirt level.
Jezza
(30 posts)Hillary doesn't seem to see the people that make up our great dem constituency, she's influenced by her biggest contributors (= Law Firms, Citicorp, Goldmansachs, DLA Piper, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Monsanto.)
I find it hard to believe she'll fight wallstreet... let alone care about social equalities & institutional racism, i fear she'll be another puppet president taking +$150M in campaign funding from Law Firms, Citicorp, Goldmansachs, DLA Piper, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley and Monsanto.
Now there's this term Democratic Socialist, a platform built with planks of Single-Payer Medicare, Taxing Super-Rich to pay for education, increased minumum wage, and reform-everything-that-the-corporatists have phuct over these past couple decades.
----
...ok, i wanna learn more... Bernie Sanders is building a platform that ain't the Hillary:Kerry:Gore//Bush politics... He is finally someone pushing a Liberal Revolt!
i love it! lemme go dig out the old BlueDog
Stuart G
(38,445 posts)that lead to the economy falling apart in in 2008, and then an ugly piece of advise he gave to Hillary to discredit Bernie. this one is very nasty. But..Hartmann takes some time to make the background very clear, so please watch the whole thing..It is mean in a very special way...thanks for reading this..and..
thank you if you take the time to watch the entire 8 minutes and 58 seconds.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)how can you support someone so dishonest?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)How can YOU support somebody as dishonest as Sanders?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)because people can see the difference.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It's called being "bamboozled".
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Hillary's chief financial consultant is one of the engineers of the great recession.....and she blamed it on Bernie.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... in what Hartmann is showing here!
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)think
(11,641 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I calls 'em as I sees 'em and as I see it, Sanders is the most dishonest candidate seeking the nomination during my 53 years of life.
think
(11,641 posts)the awful truth and not be able to defend Hillary and Gensler for what they did?
Duval
(4,280 posts)redruddyred
(1,615 posts)they know they don't have a foot to stand on
it's a pattern which is becoming very clear to me this primary season.
scottie55
(1,400 posts)HRC Supporters run like hell.
No we can't right?
840high
(17,196 posts)Jarqui
(10,130 posts)watch that video
then got to youtube and put in "Hillary lying"
If that's too inconvenient:
That's a fairly new one
There's about 340 videos on Hillary lying and almost nothing on Bernie.
Hillary or her campaign has done something deceptive, blatantly misrepresented, smeared or flat out lied nearly every day of the last number of weeks. It's well documented right here on this site.
Go to google and put in "Hillary Clinton trustworthy"
New Hampshire exit poll doesn't agree with you
Honest and trustworthy (34% of voters)
91% Sanders
5% Clinton
How do you explain that?
In this poll only 27% think Hillary is trustworthy
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/17/nh-win-boosts-sanders-image-clinton-still-holds-la/
In a Quinnipiac poll later last year, 60% found Hillary untrustworthy. A recent one had it at 57%.
A whole bunch of polls, spanning from the summer to this month, showing about 60% of the country thinks Hillary is untrustworthy or dishonest. And they consistently identify her as the worst in that category among all the candidates - including the GOP.
840high
(17,196 posts)sniper fire.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)What is really sad is that Thom Hartmann doesn't let RT tell him what to do, and you know, RT knows that THEY DON'T HAVE TO!
They are best served by letting Thom go on and speak the truth of what is and has been so wrong with our country that the corporate media has also been compelled to not talk about, and their goal of having America look bad will be met.
Now if we get president Bernie Sanders in charge, and we have some more reform of our media by breaking them up, etc. so that we have some real *accessible* alternative voices on our media that aren't just providing us corporatist propaganda, then it might be possible for Americans to hear American companies compete with the RT's, Al-Jazeera Americas, BBC's, France 24, Deutsche Welle News, etc. that function in this country as an alternative to the oligopoly of corporate media we have here, that have functioned like Voice of America used to function in earlier times when we were more the voice of democracy in those countries that didn't have a free media then.
If we get that environment, where we can get back media companies like Current TV or something new that can provide adequate competition to the corporatized media here, that might be the time for someone like Hartmann to move to those newer media entities then where he could continue to maintain his independence from corporate mantra BS that he'd have to be involved with today if he were to align with any other of the existing American media companies. Ed Schultz also learned his lesson the hard way when he was pushed out of MSNBC for trying to have us more informed on topics like the TPP, and now is also at RT.
For now though, I welcome having the opportunity to hear voices contend with the corporatized oligarch media's propaganda. Too bad so many here can't see where the real propaganda is these days!
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)are you taking your playbook from donald trump?
Autumn
(45,120 posts)ebayfool
(3,411 posts)I see a lotta people dismissing this without looking at it.
Blinders make 'em .... well, blind. Pity that they refuse input over fanaticism.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)What an (in)artful smear. Good on you Thom for catching this.
Thanks, leftcoast.
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)Thanks for the thread, leftcoastmountains.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)"Trying to be honest" with the American people.
She should actually be honest and tell them "these person has the skill sets needed to sneak through harmful legislation in omnibuses bills, so I hired him to advise me on my financial policies."
think
(11,641 posts)bill that Bill Clinton signed into law.
And then as Hillary's adviser tells her to attack Bernie Sanders for voting for the omnibus bill that included the legislation he helped write and sneak through.
Gary Gensler proves himself to be a loyal Goldman Sachs alumnus time and time again.
In fact Gary Gensler also wrote the loophole in Dodd Frank that Goldman Sachs and the other big banks are now using to offshore derivatives so they can't fall under US regulation:
Gensler and his staff tucked a 17-word insert into a 228-page amendment to the Dodd-Frank bill. The addition seemed to assure banks that the new derivatives rules wouldnt apply to their overseas trading operations. Bachus backed off. But the insert was craftily worded to leave wiggle room. If those activities have a direct and significant connection with activities in, or effect on, commerce of the United States, then the rules would apply, Genslers addition read.
One year later, at a late 2010 meeting of the CFTCs board, one of Genslers legal aides declared that the passage in fact gave the regulator worldwide reach over U.S. banks trading operations.
A coalition of 13 global banks banded together to fight the clause. They hired Edward J. Rosen, a derivatives lawyer with Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton, to lead the effort.
?v=562619050116
CLAUSE OF CONSEQUENCE: This 17-word insert was initially used to persuade Republicans that Dodd-Frank derivatives rules didnt affect U.S. banks overseas. It was later invoked by the CFTC in an attempt to assert control over those very operations. REUTERS/Photo illustration by Troy Dunkley
Source:
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-swaps/
think
(11,641 posts)BlueStateLib
(937 posts)Rep Bernie Sanders voted for H.R. 707 (102nd): Futures Trading Practices Act of 1992
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/102-1991/h27
In 1992, H.R.707, the Futures Trading Practices Act of 1992 was signed into law. This bill "granted the Commission the authority to exempt over-the-counter (OTC) derivative and other transactions for CFTC regulation."
In January 1993 just days before President Clinton took officedeparting CFTC Wendy Gramms last day as chair, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) exempted "certain swap agreements and hybrid instruments from regulation under the Commodity Exchange Act."
think
(11,641 posts)think
(11,641 posts)that Gensler helped get into the omnibus spending bill of 2000:
Full Wikipedia entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000
Link to full text of the CFMA:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/106th-congress/house-bill/5660/text
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)broad deregulation.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)I note that none of the Clinton supporters can answer the question asked. Probably because they "just can't watch him."
Or because they're too busy frantically deflecting/attacking Hartman.
I, too, would like an answer to the question, but I won't be holding my breath.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)thanks for this
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Phil Gramm tried to destroy the American economy...because the laws he helped pass made him and his greedy bastard friends loads of money...
Thom is well aware that for the 1%er, money is the only important thing...
Listening to her speak makes me nauseous...
Festivito
(13,452 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)We should "Trust" her! (Sarcasm)
Keep it up and feel the Bern!
Jezza
(30 posts)Best way to shutup the nincompoops, is to Vote!
interesting how history parallels from the 1938 fights between FDR and the same dogmas in past weeks' positions by HClinton/TKruz/Rubio... All three candidates push apparent differences to each Democrapublican (Dem/GOP) political party's influence by super PACs and big corporatist base (Monsanto & JPMorgan & DuPont and GoldyLocks...) ** no need to mention Trump, as he's just an honest Billionaire not even trying to hide his intent; unlike the politicians of Hillary/Cruz/Rubio who flat lie, and we know it.
----
is time to go another direction. Bernie Sanders seems to be good at the time. ...as i do hope Elizabeth Warren (a great progressive mind) get's into this evolutionary battle too. She'd be a fantastic President/VP...
----
....
we are ruled by "big meanies" giants like Robert Mercer, Steven A Cohen, Paul Singer, Stephen Schwarzman, Richard String, Corbin Robertson Jr., J. Larry Nichols, Harold Hamm, Sheldon Adelson, Oliver Grace Jr., Richard Farmer, Stephen Bechtel Jr., Thomas Stewart, John Cornyn, Jim DeMint, either Koch Brother, JP Morgan, Citicorp, UBS, Monsanto & DuPont and Goldman Sachs...
---- be ever aware of spindocters; creating a place for corporatists, like Hillary, to appear sane.
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)but the last two debate have been nothing but stupid bs like this, i didn't catch all of them but the ones i did -- oh man
what a number that hillary clinton is. i am slowly beginning to understand why the right hates her so. why independents hate her! she can't win on policy obvi so has to make up on misleading statements and downright lies. enough!
Jezza
(30 posts)corporations do not hesitate to exploit and profit from programs uniformly identified with liberal politics, such as the war on poverty, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, and foreign aid. All these programs have proved to be extremely lucrative for corporations that contract with government agencies.
these are the groups now funding Hillary; Monsanto & JPMorgan & DuPont and "GoldyLocks"... not to mention several corporate law firms.
Like you, i feel tricked. time to vote!
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)that obamacare is at best a compromise.
the trouble with team R is that they want to regress to the status quo. no one from that side has suggested a viable alternative.
obamacare, or The Affordable Care Act, as ya say, was and had to be a compromise. remember who Obama's office had to fight; and now that it's a gov program, the gov program has to bid out to all the insurers owned by whom? which is why costs are going up; and to corps owned by those same billionaires behind the dark money of the GOP.
(reading a interesting book, Ref / Dark Money, by Jane Mayer, pub2016)
....anyhow, so that's why i find Hillary's platform totally lazy (not to mention wasteful), and what is so appealing with Bernie Sanders (r)evoluntionary idea to make Medicare a single-payer program for all.
To make it cheaper as Sanders wants, means making the program a bigger power so they can control prices more effectively, as well as taxing the supeRICH...
contrary to Sanders, the GOP does have an answer if we pay attention, they want to privatize it, and make it into a profitable traded commodity amoung themselves. (just like they proprose doing with police enforcement and prisons and a lot of the government programs.)
...these cats backing the corporatist side of the GOP are big meanies, and make Trump look small:
Robert Mercer, Steven A Cohen, Paul Singer, Stephen Schwarzman, Richard String, Corbin Robertson Jr., J. Larry Nichols, Harold Hamm, Sheldon Adelson, Oliver Grace Jr., Richard Farmer, Stephen Bechtel Jr., Thomas Stewart, John Cornyn, Jim DeMint, either Koch Brother
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)For more, look up what a woman named Brooksley Born has to say about it. She was the head of the CFTC at the time and not only objected to this legislation, she was sounding the alarm about how dangerous the situation was even BEFORE this law made it a zillion times worse. If I remember right, she resigned when it passed. It was done super sneakily. Hearings had been held about the proposed law the previous summer and it was supposedly tabled then as far as anyone in Congress knew.
Her assistant then, Michael Greenberger of the U. of Md. is very knowledgeable too along with Sheila Bair of the FDIC. Look up the wikis on them and read what they wrote and said. There were some good hearings about it too, which were on C-SPAN. Also I'm pretty sure Amy Goodman interviewed Brooksley Born extensively about it. (Eliot Spitzer too, in New York tried to rein in the banks around this time and Bush Jr. took legal action to force him to back off!)
I remember these events in real time, and Thom is spot on. What he won't say, I will... the crash was done on purpose. The conditions to make it happen were deliberately put in place and there's no possibility they could have been an accident.
This makes my blood boil. This poor excuse for a woman, HRC, must never be President. I wouldn't put it past her making Phil Gramm her Secretary of Treasury! There is nothing she wouldn't do, no outrage she wouldn't commit. This effing TEARS IT!!!
I didn't know Gensler was her advisor. My God! And the two of them cooked that up for her to trot out at the Town Hall! I have no words. Shameless is far too weak for her. The whole lot of them ought to be doing time, frankly.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Hillary supporters, watch this one all the way through. Then I want you to tell me if you still support Hillary for office. If so, why.
In my opinion this is a devastating revelation. This demonstrates that the Clinton Administration is far more responsible for the 2008 economic collapse than we have been led to believe. It has been hard to follow all the many leads, the many players and wild assertions since 2008. This piece by Thom brings the entire thing into crystal clear focus.
As if all that wasn't bad enough, Hillary actually accused Bernie of voting for the bill. That has to break the record for being the most disingenuous thing ever said during a primary debate.
Just when I thought my opinion of Bill and Hillary Clinton could not get any lower. I guess I was wrong.
Does this not go to the very heart of the ethics issue? Don't you care that your candidate has been proven to be unethical in the extreme?
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)LW1977
(1,236 posts)Listen to Mic 92.1 FM via iheartradio, they air that soundbyte all the time!
Boldine
(86 posts)I miss listening to Thom.
This is an old article, but has some good information. It also looks at Clinton's donor list.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-17/hillary-clinton-grooming-former-goldman-banker-become-americas-next-treasury-secreta
If it is a Clinton vs Cruz for president Goldmann Sachs can't lose, but the country certainly will.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)She wants my support...my vote. How can I bring myself to support someone who is so disingenuous?. I just don't get it.
scottie55
(1,400 posts)HRC
me b zola
(19,053 posts)of how long I have been waiting for the new season of House of Cards to come to Netflix.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Clinton supporters. What are you for?
Great tag line.