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Tue Feb 23, 2016, 10:28 AM

Nobody Told Me

“There’s Nazis in the bathroom just below the stairs.”
-- John Lennon; Nobody Told Me


This past weekend, I was talking with some young adults, who will be eligible to vote for the first time, about presidential campaign history. While I assume that most of them have been aware of “politics” before reaching the age of 18, there is no question in my mind that they are passionately engaged in learning much more about how the system is intended to work …..as well as how it actually works.

Now, in the context of my participation on DU:GDP, community members know that I am a firm supporter of Senator Bernie Sanders. More, that I have been clear that I will definitely vote for our party’s nominee in November. Still, for the sake of conversation, I should acknowledge that the voters that I was speaking with are all supporting the Sanders’s revolution. But I hope that this OP will nevertheless be of interest to everyone on this forum.

A number of events in two of the three Democratic primaries have concerned these young adults. The specific events are being discussed on the internet, and not surprisingly, these young people at a level of using technology far beyond my own; hence, they have more of the specific information than I do -- just as here on DU, younger folks do.

However, one of the few advantages of being old is having experienced previous elections, and remembering previous controversial campaign activities. When people of my generation hear about certain behaviors, for example, we’re likely to look at one another, and say, “Rat-fuckers!” This is in reference to programs such as were made famous by the “Committee to Re-Elect the President” (CREEP) in 1972.

Even as recently as 2004, as I wrote about on this forum at the time, I was contacted the morning following a break-in at a “Kerry for President” Democratic Party headquarters in a suburb outside of Philadelphia, PA. Volunteers from a NYS social workers’ union were assisting in running that office, and they immediately contacted me. I asked if they had called the police and press? They had not. I told them that they needed to do so, They said they were afraid to. Think about that.

Such break-ins were also modus operandi of the Nixon team. There were far, far more than documented in the series of crimes commonly known as “Watergate.” More, the corruption of that era wasn’t limited to break-ins, I told these young adults. To show how obscene the republican party was, I spoke of California businessman Robert J. Walter’s role: he funneled White House campaign funds to the head of the Nazi party, to gain their active support for President Nixon’s re-election (see pages 306-308 of the Senate Watergate Report).

What was the consequence of Walter’s slimy activities? He would be rewarded with influence within the Reagan administration, which actually set the bar higher for corruption than did the Nixon gang. This “businessman” -- a petty mobster with ties to the Nazi party -- would influence our nation’s economic policies under Reagan. You can’t make this shit up, I told these university students.

When they asked about the connections between government and organized crime, I recommended that they research two examples. The first, not surprisingly, was the vice presidency of Richard Nixon, specifically concerning the role of the mob and US policy towards Cuba. But, because that may seem like ancient history, I added a more recent example.

Most people are somewhat aware of the case of Boston mobster James “Whitey” Bulger. He was, of course, a sociopath who ruled the Boston underworld for decades. His legend is that he was assisted by one corrupt FBI agent, who he served as an informant for. A recent CNN documentary tells a far more troubling story. Bulger was never an FBI informant. Rather, he employed numerous FBI agents, including some at high levels, as well as a handful of influential Justice Department employees. These government employees, who “earned” salaries of tax-payers’ money, were also employed by Bulger, who paid them higher salaries.

The number of individuals who worked for Bulger first, and for the government second, was so large, that the US Department of Justice refused to address this in Bulger’s recent trial. Indeed, as CNN documented, the Justice Department withheld, and then altered, official documents that indicated how corrupt their system was.

This is, obviously, an extreme example. But if federal government employees can be bought by organized crime, one can reasonably ask what amount of influence can Wall Street buy? And if men like Mr. Walters, with ties to the Nazi party (as documented by the US Senate) works with the Nixon and Reagan administration in setting economic policy, might we not want to reconsider what defines “organized crime?”

The CNN documentary shows that for decades, Bulger knew that he would not be indicted by the federal government, no matter what crimes he committed. None of the Wall Street gangsters responsible for the 2008 economic melt-down were ever prosecuted. Is that perhaps a pattern? Or merely the long arm of coincidence, wrenching itself out of its socket?

Peace,
H2O Man

71 replies, 4689 views

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Arrow 71 replies Author Time Post
Reply Nobody Told Me (Original post)
H2O Man Feb 2016 OP
tk2kewl Feb 2016 #1
H2O Man Feb 2016 #2
tk2kewl Feb 2016 #5
H2O Man Feb 2016 #20
tk2kewl Feb 2016 #23
H2O Man Feb 2016 #25
Gregorian Feb 2016 #3
H2O Man Feb 2016 #26
hootinholler Feb 2016 #4
H2O Man Feb 2016 #29
RiverLover Feb 2016 #6
tk2kewl Feb 2016 #8
RiverLover Feb 2016 #16
H2O Man Feb 2016 #31
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #7
H2O Man Feb 2016 #35
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #38
Punkingal Feb 2016 #9
840high Feb 2016 #32
H2O Man Feb 2016 #37
H2O Man Feb 2016 #36
tblue37 Feb 2016 #51
H2O Man Feb 2016 #64
tblue37 Feb 2016 #69
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #10
cali Feb 2016 #11
H2O Man Feb 2016 #40
Sensitive soul Feb 2016 #46
jhart3333 Feb 2016 #12
H2O Man Feb 2016 #48
malthaussen Feb 2016 #13
grasswire Feb 2016 #27
H2O Man Feb 2016 #49
jeepers Feb 2016 #67
bbgrunt Feb 2016 #14
H2O Man Feb 2016 #50
Ichingcarpenter Feb 2016 #15
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #17
H2O Man Feb 2016 #65
Wilms Feb 2016 #18
tk2kewl Feb 2016 #19
H2O Man Feb 2016 #66
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #21
Sensitive soul Feb 2016 #45
PWPippin Feb 2016 #22
Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #24
haikugal Feb 2016 #28
Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #30
sadoldgirl Feb 2016 #33
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #34
myrna minx Feb 2016 #39
AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #41
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #42
malthaussen Feb 2016 #53
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #55
malthaussen Feb 2016 #56
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #57
malthaussen Feb 2016 #58
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #59
malthaussen Feb 2016 #61
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #62
Shandris Feb 2016 #43
2banon Feb 2016 #44
Hydra Feb 2016 #47
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #52
malthaussen Feb 2016 #54
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #60
Zorra Feb 2016 #63
bobthedrummer Feb 2016 #68
Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #70
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #71

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:33 AM

1. Thanks for the post H2O Man - from the quoted lyrics...

 

the result of being whipped into a frenzy, misdirected and put to sleep by the media makes me think of this verse:

Everybody's runnin' and no one makes a move
Everyone's a winner and nothing left to lose
There's a little yellow idol to the north of Katmandu
Everybody's flying and no one leaves the ground
Everybody's crying and no one makes a sound
There's a place for us in the movies you just gotta lay around

and this line from above verse makes me think of those who think we do not need a revolution:

Everyone's a winner and nothing left to lose


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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:39 AM

2. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:44 AM

5. i think your point about the younger generation's use of technology is important

 

many of the taboos of traditional media can reach these people - issues such as the one you discussed with them and issues like Kissenger, that the MSM will never touch, actually become part of the conversation

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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 02:07 PM

20. Very good point.

I have noticed a few of our friends here respond to posts about Hillary's close friendship with the war criminal Kissinger with, "He was never charged or convicted of 'war crimes'." I find that strangely shallow. Plenty of people, for example, commit murder, in cases that go "unsolved." Hence, they are not charged or convicted of murder. Yet, in every literal sense, they are indeed murderers.

I think it's safe to say that most of the young people who are involved in this primary contest understand that. And they recognize that the media frequently fails to address many of the most important issues facing us today.

Again, thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 02:26 PM

23. If you haven't already read it...

 

Robert David Steele - Open-Source Everything Manifesto

http://p2pfoundation.net/Open-Source_Everything_Manifesto

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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 03:53 PM

25. Thanks!

Much appreciated!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:41 AM

3. Now you have me wondering.

You've brought this up for some reason. I'm thinking of the DNC, and perhaps some shady stuff going on. But I can't support that charge without some evidence that I'm not thinking of at this moment.

Do you see what you feel might be fitting under the definition of organized crime as we know it?

Again, thank you for sharing what is now quite obviously an intensely involved political life. You must have great emotional fortitude.

One example might be- did the firewall go down without anyone from the DNC telling them. Or was it an intentional flaw to trip up Sanders. That's off the top of my head, and my be absurd.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 03:59 PM

26. Right.

I'm trying to say a couple things in the OP, I suppose:

That there are obviously going to be corporations -- some that follow the law, some that bend it, and others that just break the law outright. And we understand that, without question, that elected officials do work with businesses. But we don't want them working for those businesses, as employees.

But, yes, you are correct. I have concerns about some of the things that I've been hearing, as far as our current political process is being run.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:43 AM

4. Thank you H2O man!

I didn't know that about Whitey Bulger or the Nazi party working for tricky dicky.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:42 PM

29. Thank you!

If I can bring some new information to the attention of Good Friends like you, it makes spending time here worthwhile.

Robert Walters was an associate of George Wallace's, before joining in with the Nixon team. That, of course, was when Wallace was at his most offensive and lawless.

If you get a chance,watch the CNN documentary on Bulger. It's chilling.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:46 AM

6. Its very unsettling to look that in the face, but we need to. Thanks for another insightful &

interesting & educational post, H20man!

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:58 AM

8. probably *more* dangerous

 

today's world is under even more pressure than the earlier part of the 20th C

population has tripled
wealth inequality may be worse
climate change is an accelerating disaster
as is ecological destruction
hate is being stoked to similar levels

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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:50 PM

16. True. I think FDR would be immeasurably disappointed in what has become of US. /nt

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:44 PM

31. Thanks, RiverLover!

I really like the FDR quote/picture. There is a man who looked at the dark powers in this country, and confronted them.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:49 AM

7. And what happened to Kennedy always lurks in mind when grassroots pressure is

about to burst for opening up the road...

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 06:11 PM

35. Right.

Our opposition has several layers. The most obvious part, of course, is that there is a heated Democratic Primary going on. And that makes it where, to promote the Sanders's revolution, we are currently doing battle with the Clinton team. So it includes those who "play politics" in an under-handed manner -- for example, Debbie Wasserman Schultz. She's among our current opposition, and while I find her to one of the most annoying and fake people in DC, she's not the deeper-layer enemy.

As Bernie's candidacy progresses -- which means more and more people waking up, and demanding real change -- those more powerful and entrenched layers will become more active in their opposition.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #35)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 06:38 PM

38. So what and how do we accomplish our grassroots

resistance in front of such danger --- Because it took more than several decades to come to this point ---- and stake is quite high ----just trying to make the real monster visible?

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:11 PM

9. Your OPs are just the best!

Always thought-provoking, always evoke an emotional response from me, even if I don't post it, and even sometimes scary, but that okay. We should be scared, and we should fight. Thank you!

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:48 PM

32. Agree.

 

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Response to 840high (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 06:16 PM

37. Thanks!

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 06:15 PM

36. Thank you very much!

I'm happy that you enjoy the essays I post here. And, if they are thought-provoking, then I'm really pleased.

Being scared is natural, in certain circumstances -- like America, today. But we remember that the hero and the coward feel the exact same fear. The coward is consumed by it, while the hero uses it for the fuel required to obtain victory.

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 02:43 AM

51. It was a post by H20 Man, linked on The Smirking Chimp website

that brought me to DU in the summer of 2004, and I have been here ever since.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #51)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:00 PM

64. I remember that

you had shared this with me before. Thank you! That means a lot to me.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #64)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 05:28 PM

69. Well, I still consider your posts to be one of the main reasons for being on DU. Just FYI. nt

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:25 PM

10. kick and thank you...

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:27 PM

11. Simple logic. I like it.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 09:40 PM

40. Thank you.

I find that being a simpleton has its advantages! (grin)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #40)


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:34 PM

12. Kickin like my life depended on it. Thanks H2O Man.

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Response to jhart3333 (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:51 AM

48. Thank you.

The quality of our lives surely depends on our actions today, in the context of this primary, then general election.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:39 PM

13. Those who look backward tend to lose the national races.

Mr Obama was definitely helped in his campaigns by having a staff with a greater command of modern communications techniques than his opponents, in both the primary and the general elections. Stunningly, it appears that the conservative candidates have not improved on their ignorance: every time they try to throw some mud, the story is debunked within hours on the 'Net. While this has no implications for the tech-challenged, who still derive their information from the MSM, it is of critical importance when considering the youthful, tech-savvy generation. Who turned out in the greatest numbers for Mr Obama, and who are turning out in overwhelming numbers for Mr Sanders. If only more of them would turn out...

I sometimes wonder what is in the minds of the Clinton staffers. Their arithmetic seems to lead them to the idea that certain groups can be alienated, as long as others are still willing to vote Hillary. Indeed, they seem to take a rare old delight in insulting the voters whom they know will never pull a Primary lever for their candidate. It's quite puzzling, because I don't see what they gain by this. Schadenfreude may well be a greater motivating factor than even I believe, and I believe it is a major motivating factor. Schadenfreude and ill-will. Mr Nixon may have said all sorts of nasty things about the people who didn't like him, but at least he did so in private (Mr Agnew, not so much). I'm trying to remember when such overt denigration of a candidate's supporters occurred before, but I'm coming up empty. My recollection is that hitherto, while mud may have been copiously slung at the candidate, his supporters were not subject to overt contempt. But perhaps my memory is selective. The past always does seem more rosy, no?

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:00 PM

27. good points, thanks

I do not understand, either, the Clintons' constant efforts to make enemies in their own party. Maybe it stems from a feeling of victimization at the hands of the electorate at large. They might forget that many many Democrats like me spent a lot of time DEFENDING them during the Starr inquiry and impeachment.

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:59 AM

49. Well said.

I am particularly concerned with the divisive behaviors of the Clinton campaign. No matter who the winner of the primaries is, the two sides are going to find it difficult to work together. (And I'm not saying that they are 100% responsible for the acrimony.)

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:21 PM

67. Ralph Nader

By the dems the repubs and the media.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:41 PM

14. k and r for the BIG truth.

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Response to bbgrunt (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 02:00 AM

50. Thank you.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:42 PM

15. The NAZIS never surrendered in WW2 the Wehrmacht did

Most don't understand that or even what that means........ hell then we hired people and brought over people that were not only NAZIS but members of the SS and but SS members in positions of power here.

No matter what YOU THINK ....... Lennon was telling the truth about what's under our stairs.

Thanks h20 man



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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 01:20 PM

17. kick

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:03 PM

65. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 01:27 PM

18. Strange Days, Indeed.

 

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Response to Wilms (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 01:48 PM

19. most peculiar, mama

 

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Response to Wilms (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:08 PM

66. Great song!

Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 02:13 PM

21. I am listening ...


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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #21)


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 02:15 PM

22. Once again, you've put things into perspective and so eloquently. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 02:40 PM

24. Great OP, thank you. Connect the dots, they're all there...that is Bernie's message.

Buying a get out of jail free card is not a game.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:14 PM

28. H2O man hits it outta the park!!

Another great OP....I'm grateful, thank you!

K&R!!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:43 PM

30. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, H2O Man.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 04:58 PM

33. K&R

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 05:43 PM

34. Post by H2O Man deserves second or third read. Thoughtful.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 08:12 PM

39. Thank you. K&R

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 09:48 PM

41. K&R

 

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 09:50 PM

42. Sadly this is reminding me more and more of 1968-72

 

yes, 2004 and a few other shall we say... dirty elections.

The power elite, imo, will do everything, and I mean EVERYTHING to keep Sanders away...

I cannot still figure the Trump angle that is getting more help than I care (daily calls to news shows, takes a dump is breaking news), but I see evidence of we need to keep this guy from getting anywhere close to the WH at any cost.

Since I am sure you remember, Carter also comes to mind. He was a surprise, and Ford should have won... but after he got to the WH the dem establishment did all they could to stop him at the gates.

Politics is one dirty business...

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #42)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 10:56 AM

53. It's a puzzler, but I have a theory...

... the idea is to elect Hillary Clinton. She, and not Mr Bush, is the preferred candidate of the power structure. (The base, not so much, but who cares about them?) By Trumpeting the Donald's appeal and profile, they put the GOP -- now largely in the hands of radicals, remember -- in the awkward position of having a front-runner who is absolutely cuckoo, for whom only an idiot would vote. There, that takes care of the 30% of idiots in the country, now, who gets elected? The alternative, who has been running since the beginning on a "I won't be as big a disaster as the other guy" platform. If there were no Bernie Sanders, Mrs Clinton would be poised to win by the greatest landslide since Ronnie Reagan. As a bonus, the MSM make great profits from Mr Trump's performance art, which is far more exciting and attention-grabbing than Mrs Clinton's.

But Mr Sanders has altered that cozy scenario. I also think overkill comes into play: the parallels between the personalities of Mr Nixon and Mrs Clinton strike one, and I suggest that in both cases, they cannot be secure enough: Mr Nixon would have easily won in 1972, but he was paranoid and insecure, so he resorted to every dirty trick and questionable tactic in the book to ensure his victory. Fortunately for him, this did not come out until the election was over, and he won by the landslide he'd hoped for. By running Mrs Clinton against the worst possible candidate, this need for over-preparation is addressed. Losing to Mr Obama could only have stoked the fires of this paranoia, so the need to have an opponent as hopeless as possible would be only greater.

Consider that no GOP candidate who is even slightly "moderate" got any traction at all from the MSM or the Party. It has been all Trump since he declared, except for brief insurgencies by candidates even worse than him (which one would almost consider to be impossible, but the GOP has a deep field). Mere profit and "news-worthiness" (may I barf) does not account for this, because if similar attention had been paid Mr Sanders (or any attention at all), revenues would also have risen. Ergo, the media must have a reason other than just revenue to promote Mr Trump. The "conspiracy" I have outlined here would seem to account for this, which doesn't mean, of course, that it has anything at all to do with reality.

But Mr Trump did consult Mr Clinton before throwing his hat into the ring.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #53)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:05 PM

55. Except that the elites severely miscalculated

 

I am not the only one anymore who sees a Trump presidency if Clinton gets the nomination. The electorate is pissed...they want change. This is why Sanders polls (I crack me up since polls have also on purpose become less reliable) better in a general against Trump

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #55)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:15 PM

56. Yes, Mr Sanders has destroyed the scenario.

It's a sad unintended consequence of his candidacy, because he shows Mrs Clinton in a terrible light, and his threat makes her supporters react in the most vicious of ways, which turn off a lot of voters. It's kind of ghastly. Many who would have held their proverbial noses and voted for Mrs Clinton because she was clearly superior to Mr Trump are now not seeing much of a difference, and hence may just stay home when the election comes. This would be a mistake, because Mrs Clinton still is better than the alternative.

I'm not convinced Mr Trump will be the GOP candidate. I don't think he wants the job, and I think he's priming an exit strategy. Which would help, in some ways, because the foam-at-the-mouth crowd will be out a candidate. While they would never vote for Mrs Clinton, they may just stay home themselves. Or they may just turn out anyway, and hold their noses to vote for whatever empty suit the GOP nominates, on the basis of "anybody but Clinton." Which is irony, if you like.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #56)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:20 PM

57. Oh he will be.

 

There is no exit strategy anywhere in this scenarios. And at this point...given 100 years of presidential elections, the best I can say for Cruz and Rubio is that they might slow down the train wreck.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #57)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:52 PM

58. I do wonder if he is starting to believe his own press.

Sure, he could be such a psychopathological narcissist as to always have believed he could win the election, but it's also possible he has surprised even himself by his success. Thus, if he had planned on dropping out when he started this carnival ride, he could have re-evaluated based on his success. That's predicated on the theory that he really isn't as crazy as appears, which is pure speculation, of course. Or the power structure may have thought him a useful idiot, only to have discovered they had created a monster (which is one of the memes we see in the press, which instantly makes it suspect to me, sad to say).

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #58)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:59 PM

59. He never intended to drop out

 

And trump came from the birther II movement. Let's remember the original was a dirty trick against Obama. This is the part people keep misreading about Trump. Though he is partially a creation of the media.

His appeal is as broad as it comes, and it includes large swaths of Latino republicans, which comes as absolutely no surprise to me. He will also get the AA republican vote...you read it here first. And among Latinos, older Cuban Americans will run to vote for him. I admit, the religious right did surprise me a bit given that trump is socially to their left.

But then again, I started taking him seriously, while the media still chortled, in June July of last year. As late as Decemner the media was still presenting him as a joke. I see Amercan media as both complicit and naive about Trump. Read on what happened with the German media and the rise of Hitler....the parallels are just astounding.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #59)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:55 PM

61. That Gandhi quote we often see applies...

"First they laugh at you," etc. It applies as well to Mr Hitler as Mr Trump, as to Mr Sanders. It's astonishing, sometimes, how out-of-touch the media can be. But then, they are serving the interests of their masters. (Obviously, not all media, just the ones who make great bank at the job)

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #61)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 02:00 PM

62. I am in the process of writing my trump victory piece

 

And I am calling the primary for trump. And as far as the media...it's not just who owns them. It's the circles they walk in

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 09:57 PM

43. You and I have disagreed on many posts in the past (but not all!), but this one definitely...

 

...hits home and does so very well. (Also, I was unaware of the whole Mafia/SEA thing, so I'm going to look more into that - anyone with resource links to start me off would be appreciated!)

I've long been of the belief that a vast majority of the organs of government are corrupted through and through. That so many have reached the point that they are more loyal to the organization than to anything it actually stands for anymore (there's a principle in tech that works much the same way) says that this system is nearing critical end simply due to accrued entropy. It's one of the reasons I'm such a committed anti-authoritarian.

I don't know if the corruption, or even an extant amount of it, can ever be purged from government anymore. What I do know is that until it, or a large amount of it, is cleansed, there is nothing but danger in supporting further federal* government control over any method of production (*and realistically, state in most cases too). Note that I'm not talking about government influence, just control.

It's times like these I'm reminded of just how right the Reverend Carlin was when he spoke about rapid fire capital punishment. You put a handful of bankers on a catapult into a brick wall at halftime of Monday Night Football for a few weeks and you'll start to see these problems disappear real quick.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 10:55 PM

44. Wow. Just Jaw Dropping.

 

Is that CNN Doc archived? I just have to see it.

I've lived through the assassination of JFK, was a Senior in High School when MLK was assassinated and then on the day of my graduation, RFK was assassinated.

I lived through Watergate, Iran Contra, all of it.

I was aware Nixon was tied to the Mob. The name Baby Robozzo (sp?) seems to come to mind.. I didn't know Reagan was tied to the mob, and I didn't know of this other Robert J. Walter character

I am only aware of the Whitey Bulger case when it hit the news a couple of years ago or so, and heard an interesting interview or two of the journalist whose name I no longer remember writing a book, the title I've also forgotten.

But what you have just described, I had not read or heard before.

After the 2000 and 2004 elections I thought I've seen political crime at it's most corrupt, surpassing Nixon's campaign committee's nefarious activities by long mile.

But you've just revealed to me the surface has barely been scratched.

Have you posted this to facebook? If not, it really needs to be. if this was posted to my home page, it would go viral. I kid you not.

Thanks for this very enlightening OP.


:clap




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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:19 AM

47. Unfortunately it's simple math

The easiest way to make money in a capitalist system is crime. In a capitalist system, money = power.

Ergo, the fastest way to the top of the heap is criminal behavior and then legalizing your crimes with your illegally acquired funding.

At that point, whoever is in charge is either dirty or came from money that is.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 07:39 AM

52. kick in the morning!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 11:38 AM

54. The power structure never disliked the Nazis.

This is peripheral to your post, but I feel inspired to rant a little.

If you haven't already, consider looking at 20th-century history through the lens of anti-Communism. I find it brings a lot of apparently diverse things into focus.

I contend that the ruling class in America, which is the wealthy class (we have been a plutocracy for much longer than one generation) were piss-your-pants terrified of the Communists, and were willing to do about anything to ensure they never gained traction here in the U.S. That has meant, among other things, supporting the most radical Right-Wing dictatorships everywhere, so long as they would fight the Red Menace, pouring out endless blood and treasure at any opportunity to oppose Communism (however weak a reed this entailed leaning on), and even, reluctantly, allowing the passage of labor legislation to throw the odd bone to the working class if it kept them from insurrection. The fear of Communism absolutely dominates our domestic and foreign policy between 1917 and 1990. And because of this fear, the rulers in America (and authoritarians everywhere), loved Adolf and the other fascist leaders, and were willing to go to any lengths to support them. Remember Premature Anti-Fascists? These were people who dared to oppose Fascism before it became fashionable to do so, who were suspected of Communist or at least Left-leaning tendencies. They were persecuted and ostracized, and even when we finally did go to war with the Nazi regime, they were suspected and kept segregated in the fighting forces, for fear that they might pollute the general populace with their Commie-pinko ideas.

I think it is a fun, if ultimately futile, gedankenexperiment to wonder what would have happened if Hitler had not declared war on the U.S. after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. (Bluto Blutarsky aside, it was the Germans who first declared war on us). We had, really, no causus belli against them, although Mr Roosevelt and his government were doing everything possible to create one. They handed it to us on a platter, though, which put us in a very awkward position indeed, because it made us allies of the country and ideology we most despised. Realists understood that the Germans were a threat, once they had run rampantly throughout Europe (and were a threat to Middle Eastern oil, but let's not digress). But if the Nazis had behaved, do you think we would have done anything about them? Extermination camps or no? Hell, there are still people who deny the Holocaust now, and there were plenty who denied it then (and let's not talk about Jew-hatred, which is not unknown in the U.S. anyway: recollect that we set quotas on the number of Jews who could flee to this country well before we went to war with Germany). A casual look around the world will show that the U.S. is a friend to fascist totalitarians everywhere, and that in many cases, where they didn't exist, it was necessary to create them. Why wouldn't we be? They're good for business.

That the common people may despise fascist totalitarians is unimportant, so long as they are stroked occasionally and kept in the dark about our support of such regimes. And after all, we are the leaders of the Free World (it says here), so naturally we only support the good guys. That "good guys" may frequently translate to "the enemy of my enemy" is something we prefer not to notice, and certainly not acknowledge, which is why Henry Kissenger is so despised by liberals. He is, however, the darling of authoritarians and the ruling class, who were happy to do whatever was expedient to stave off the Communist menace. (As a bonus, a Communist menace is good for business, too, since we needed to be militarily prepared to oppose their aggression)

The Fall of Communism was thus good news and bad news. Domestically, it freed the ruling class from any need to appease the proletariat, with results we have seen in the past generation. But it did pose a problem: with the great evil destroyed, what justification did we have for massive repression and military spending? Fortunately, the "terrorists" filled the vacuum promptly, and of course the history of the 21st century is best viewed through the lens of anti-terror, which has actually turned out to be a great boon to business and authority everywhere. It would be irresponsible to suggest that that is the idea.

The film Days of Glory (which was Gregory Peck's debut as an actor in 1944) was a blatantly pro-Russian film intended as an anti-Nazi propaganda piece. It had an edit later: a sequence of newsreel footage depicting the May Day parades in Moscow. The film ended with a speech by Tamara Toumanova (also making her debut) to the effect that the Nazis were a terrible menace, but might someday be defeated by grit and determination. The VO of the edit tells us, "But now there is a new menace in Europe..." and goes on, basically, to disclaim all of the propaganda in the film. The movie itself is wincibly awful, but the edit (which is not available on all copies: I saw it twice on TV, with and without) is just as bad. A fascinating insight into how we were forced briefly to suppress our anti-Communist stance to deal with the greater perceived threat, and then made haste to repair the damage with counter-propaganda.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #54)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:01 PM

60. Correct

 

And I do remember that movie as well. It is astounding the switch in our stance from 1945 to 47

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 03:32 PM

63. K&R

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:50 PM

68. Yep. I've got your back Patrick. Many of us anti-fascists just will NGU, will we?

 

Meet Hillary's Religious Leader, Rightwingnut Doug Coe (Stephanie DU OP March 14, 2008)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071798

Coe is part of that New Apostolic Reformation/NAR cult that started up right after WWII when real Nazis were being given employment and identities as Americans "working" in "national security". They brought a lot of junk along with them.

January 1, 1934: The Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring took effect (My DU OP January 1, 2008)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2570336

K&R

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 05:32 PM

70. Great article and a pleasure to read. eom

 

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 09:36 PM

71. Kick in the evening

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