2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHere's How Black People Actually Fare in Bernie Sanders' Home State
What does this mean? Black Vermonters make up just 1.2% of the state's general population, but 10.7% of its incarcerated population. Meaning that, proportionally, there are nearly 10 times more black people locked up in Vermont's jails and prisons on a given day than there are walking its streets.
http://mic.com/articles/124341/here-s-how-black-people-actually-fare-in-vermont-with-bernie-sanders-as-their-senator#.A1badKsYx
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)This is an American problem that has jackshit to so with Senators. Nice try though. I guess you all know that if she does not crush him in S. Carolina her mythical firewall will be shown for what it is.
Desperation is such an ugly thing.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Mass incarcerations of blacks is happening in his own state. What is he doing about it? It's not ugly, it's true. Your peeps post far worse about Hillary.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)It's how the constitution sets things up.
Now, he may have some authority as a thought leader in his state, but no actual legislative role in forming state policy.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Has he ever suggested any legislative action?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Racial profiling is a fact of life here, said Vaughn Carney, a black lawyer in the state who has supported Sanders in every election but plans to vote for Hillary Clinton for president.
Vermont incarcerates people at the fourth highest rate in the U.S., but no one talks about that. I have been beating on that drum for a while now, and I hoped that Bernie would up that mantle, but he has not. He is like a lot of Vermonters who like to congratulate themselves on how progressive they are but sweep these issues under the rug.
Carney said that he and other black leaders in the state often turned to Vermonts other senator, Patrick Leahy, for matters pertaining to the community."
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You're just throwing shit at the wall now hoping it will stick.
Now answer the questions, how does a US Senator enact state legislation?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)wrt race issues?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)You need to understand how govt works. There's a difference between state government and federal government.
.
oasis
(49,407 posts)Not a sign of true leadership I'm afraid.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)He could have been more involved in the community, could have brought concerns to the Governor.. Nada.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Posted: Feb 12, 2016 2:21 PM CST
By The Associated Press
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is receiving the support of the Black Lives Matter movement in his home state.
Dozens of activists gathered at the Vermont Statehouse Friday to call for a racial justice agenda in the state, including more hiring of African-American teachers and school administrators and more accountability for state agency hiring practices.
The event came a day after congressman and long-time civil rights leader John Lewis endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, and said he doesn't recall meeting Sanders during key events of the 1960s civil rights era.
Participants including Rajnii Eddins expressed deep respect for Lewis, but said they're less concerned about what people were doing in the 1960s than what they are doing and saying now.
Some credited Sanders with representing Vermont's open style of government.
http://www.wrex.com/story/31210380/2016/02/12/bernie-sanders-get-support-of-black-lives-matter-activists-in-vermont
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) -
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is receiving the support of the Black Lives Matter movement in his home state.
Dozens of activists gathered at the Vermont Statehouse Friday to call for a racial justice agenda in the state, including more hiring of African-American teachers and school administrators and more accountability for state agency hiring practices.
The event came a day after congressman and long-time civil rights leader John Lewis endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, and said he doesn't recall meeting Sanders during key events of the 1960s civil rights era.
Participants including Rajnii Eddins expressed deep respect for Lewis, but said they're less concerned about what people were doing in the 1960s than what they are doing and saying now.
Some credited Sanders with representing Vermont's open style of government.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Your claim was that his constituents felt ignored, apparently not all of them agree with you.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)It's actually quite common when it's all the same party. Cons do it too. Sounds like you don't have a ton of experience in state politics.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)But it's just silly to suggest they don't suggest or have major input. I don't know if you really believe that or you're just making excuses for Bernie. But you're wrong, either way.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But you get a cookie for adding your 2 cents!
🍪
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)But I think the real issue is you want to excuse Bernie. I think we both know that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And we both know that he's not responsible for incarceration rates or private prisons at the state level.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I think I'll trust their opinions over yours.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Did you record the conversation or am I supposed to take your word for it?
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Remember? And then you excused Bernie even though the AA being quoted said Bernie ignores AA issues. It's just up thread - you can't have forgotten that quickly.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Where did they say they blamed him for that?
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)So I don't know how you excuse that one. He DID help enact that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If you can't prove that claim we're done here, this is just an attempt to further derail the thread.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Are you saying he was for federal mass incarceration, but against state mass incarceration? How would you advise him to explain that to AA in Vermont?
Lol!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Just as I thought.
Ciao!
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I'm just saying I have no trouble believing them. Why do you?
hack89
(39,171 posts)If nothing else, they ensure that the issues don't get buried and forgotten.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and if he can't manage THAT, whats he even doing running against she who can do all?
or something.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Semtex
(21 posts)Oh no, the only thing she ever did was to call them super predators and take money from the for profit prison industry.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)They own it -- lock, stock, and barrel no matter what state it occurs in. To try to blame anyone else for the treachery of Hill&Bill inc. is dishonest. But then, The Clintons and their acolytes are known for that.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Wisconsin has them beat, though.
It's an American problem that Senator Sanders has suddenly discovered (see link below), and white states seem to lock up the black folks the quickest.
Not sure what the rest of your comments have to do with this OP, but I think maybe you should examine your own motives when you write angry commentaries about firewalls and desperation.
The topic of this discussion is incarceration rates in VT, the home state of a candidate.
You're welcome to pull up data and include it to bolster your argument and invite discussion.
And if you think "it has nothing to do with Senators," you need to keep up with what Senator Sanders has been saying about this topic. He seems to want to address this on a federal level--but it is a problem for the STATES, mostly. http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/09/17/bernie-sanders-seeks-to-ban-private-prisons/
The Vermont independent, who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination, introduced the Justice is not for Sale Act with Democratic Reps. Raúl Grijalva of Arizona, Keith Ellison of Minnesota and Bobby Rush of Illinois. It would bar the federal government from contracting with private incarceration companies starting two years after passage.
It just seems odd that he's been on the Hill for 25 years and hasn't addressed this issue in his OWN state at all...just seems terribly odd, especially since VT has had that real problem with being "first in the nation" when it comes to incarcerating their tiny black population....
amborin
(16,631 posts)Approximately 1213% of the American population is African-American, but they make up 60% of the almost 2.1 million male inmates in jail or prison (U.S. Department of Justice, 2009)
MADem
(135,425 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Response to MADem (Reply #7)
Post removed
MADem
(135,425 posts)He knows an opportunity when he sees one.
merrily
(45,251 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...who voted for the 1990s crime bill.
And the incarceration rates for blacks in New York, Arkansas, and Illinois are lower than in Vermont. In fact in both Arkansas and Illinois the rates are less than half that in Vermont.
http://www.sentencingproject.org/map/map.cfm#map
PS - Clinton lives in New York, Sanders was born in New York.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)"But shortly before its peak, the Sentencing Project reported that Vermont had the second-highest black-to-white incarceration rate in America topped only by Iowa, another state with a small black population."
riversedge
(70,299 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Could Hillary have changed the policies of NYC cops?
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)are involved with national/federal legislation and have no authority to vote on laws or introduce legislation in state legislatures.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Maybe they stopped?
riversedge
(70,299 posts)I will disagree upfront.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Once again, Sanders has no authority is his own state's government. He is a US Senator-- he represents his state in the US Senate. His work involves laws and bills at the national level. He cannot introduce or vote on any legislation in the Vermont state legislature
hack89
(39,171 posts)are you telling me that a US Senator from a small state does not have the power of moral persuasion to influence his state politicians? To rally the public to put pressure on their state officials? Are you saying that if Bernie had made this a priority he would have accomplished nothing?
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)This is a really bad analogy. It makes no sense. I know what you are trying to say, but this is a mathematically meaningless statement.
tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)If you go to a prison in Vermont, you're ten times more likely to see black people there than if you were out in public somewhere.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You do understand that he's a US Senator, right?
Was Hillary responsible for the policies of NYC cops when she was a senator?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Seems like he could have weighed in over the last two decades with his state delegation.
You know, bully pulpit, and all? http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/09/17/bernie-sanders-seeks-to-ban-private-prisons/
Just seems odd that he's suddenly discovered the issue.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And do explain how he could have changed Vermont law, or even better email Bernie so he can get right on that.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Show me legislation that he's introduced previous to this recent effort that demonstrates an interest in the topic.
And sorry, charity begins at home. He could have brought the influence of the three members of the VT delegation to bear on the Governor to affect this matter. Elizabeth Warren "talks to" the governor(s) of MA and even the Mayor of Boston all the time about constituent issues.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)As for the bully pulpit, see post #18.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And as usual proving that Bernie Sanders was on the right side of this issue for DECADES is NOT GOOD ENOUGH BERNIE!!1!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Hope you're doing well, though.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Really all I'm doing now is countering the smears, it's not like anyone's going to turn on Bernie because of them.
I'm well, and you?
merrily
(45,251 posts)And somewhat disheartened by the relentless bullshit. I wonder where all the intelligent posters who were here when I signed up went? Very few seem to be left, present company excepted.
Anyway, I think I'll switch off the computer soon. Have a beautiful rest of the night.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Like i winder how many of these concerned citizens were obsessing over the incarceration rate in Vermont a coupke of years ago
Thst's not to excuse it, but it is not so massively put of line withbthecrest of the country.
And when you have small populations, stastics can changed and be skewed much more easily.
I
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They're just looking for something to smear Bernie with since his decades of opposition to the criminal justice system is beyond reproach.
merrily
(45,251 posts)It's very telling, I think, that some of them preferred to switch to The Discussionist.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)how many bills did he successfully introduce again?
hack89
(39,171 posts)he could not have publicly made clear that he was appalled at the situation? Why was he silent on the matter?
amborin
(16,631 posts)Today that number has grown to 210 and represents almost ten percent of all inmates.
http://www.wcax.com/story/6828591/vermonts-black-prison-population-doubles
whereas:
http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
MADem
(135,425 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)We're talking about the total number of Vermont citizens who are black, and how many of those citizens are locked up in jails, to include For Profit Private Jails out of state.
If you are black in VT, you have a better chance of being arrested and sent to jail than you do if you lived in Ferguson, MO.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The OP is more spaghetti being thrown at the wall in the desperate hope some strand or other will finally stick.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That's his partner Shumlin, the guy who was going to do the universal health care test bed that was supposed to serve as the Proof Of Concept launching pad for Sanders' universal health care scheme.
And here's a bit more on his recently renewed interest in the prison issue:
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/28/bernie_sanderss_criminal_justice_blindspot_why_his_bill_to_ban_private_prisons_doesnt_go_nearly_far_enough/
And though progressives cheered Sanders and the legislation, research by the Prison Policy Initiativea think-tank focused on criminal justice reformshows that the bills effects would be limited if implemented. The number of people incarcerated in private prisons is only a fraction of those in public prisons. According to data from the Prison Policy Initiative, of the 1,561,525 inmates in state and federal prisons in 2014, only 131,261 were in privately run facilities.
With more than 90 percent of prisoners in publicly run prisons, why do corporate facilities garner so much attention?
When asked, Peter Wagner, the executive director of the Prison Policy Initiative, said that its easier to focus on privately run prisons because it makes any solution more clearly cut and convenient to fix. Hes concerned though that the issue may be garnering too much attention from advocates of prison reform.
It distracts attention from the rest of the system and the vast majority who go through publicly operated prisons.
Entire article is interesting for those interested in this topic.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)That would fix that problem.
If the black prison population is rapidly increasing in Vermont, could some of them be outsourced from neighboring states such as New York? A few hundred black prisoners would be a tiny fraction of the black population in NY, but a huge fraction of the black population in Vermont.
merrily
(45,251 posts)enforcement.
MADem
(135,425 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)You'd think he would have talked to his buddy Shumlin when they were discussing using VT as a Universal Health Care test bed (that plan that Shumlin abandoned as woefully unaffordable, and an economy-killer)--you know, spared a moment for his constituents suffering under this "Ship 'em out to private prison" policy who were languishing in private jails in KY and now MI.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And again, civics class: he can't be "effective" since US senators can't introduce state legislation.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Every time he talked to him about health care, he brought it up.
He can flail about complaining about the tiny percentage of federal prisoners in private prisons, but he ignores his OWN constituents languishing in Michigan, with families facing tough financial decisions to see their loved ones.
And as I've said elsewhere, Elizabeth Warren manages to weigh in re: issues of interest to her constituents. She'll talk to a governor, a mayor, a legislator--she doesn't hesitate.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Link to proof of that claim or is this more of your flailing around and fabrications?
MADem
(135,425 posts)demonstrates. He flails for media effect--he's done nothing to advance any effort to get his OWN constituents out of those private hellholes.
Read the articles provided in this thread--start at the top. Very illuminating.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You do realize that he's not the governor, right?
And where is your proof that he didn't talk to the governor and ignored his constituents?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)most legislators do.
I've said this more than once. No need for you to keep asking the question.
Shumlin doesn't agree with him, as it turns out--he LIKES those private prisons.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/16/shumlin-defends-private-prison-contracts/75893826/
The governors statements drew a contrast with Chittenden County States Attorney T.J. Donovan, who recently called for an end to private prisons as he launched his Democratic campaign for attorney general.
No more private prisons; end the contracts, Donovan yelled over a roar of applause at an Oct. 15 campaign event. Bring the Vermonters home. This is a moral test of our generation in this state.
Vermont Sen. and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders also has drawn attention to the issue by introducing legislation that would ban private prisons.
I understand his little bill has no co-sponsors.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Explain how that works, first you said it wasn't good enough now you're saying it's proof he ignores his constituents?
How does something equal nothing?
MADem
(135,425 posts)at the state level for at least two decades.
Very interesting. He knows an opportunity when he sees one.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Still waiting for you to address those claims.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Unless you're suggesting he doesn't care about his constituents--and I doubt you want to go there.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Your claim was that he ignores the issue and should have done something about it.
Link to your proof that he ignored it and explain how he could enact legislation at the state level.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You've been hyperposting, you haven't had time to read any of these pieces.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Since you're resorting to using circular logic we're done here.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Perhaps you can point out where they faulted him for incarceration rates and the prison industry?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Posted: Feb 12, 2016 2:21 PM CST
By The Associated Press
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is receiving the support of the Black Lives Matter movement in his home state.
Dozens of activists gathered at the Vermont Statehouse Friday to call for a racial justice agenda in the state, including more hiring of African-American teachers and school administrators and more accountability for state agency hiring practices.
The event came a day after congressman and long-time civil rights leader John Lewis endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, and said he doesn't recall meeting Sanders during key events of the 1960s civil rights era.
Participants including Rajnii Eddins expressed deep respect for Lewis, but said they're less concerned about what people were doing in the 1960s than what they are doing and saying now.
Some credited Sanders with representing Vermont's open style of government.
http://www.wrex.com/story/31210380/2016/02/12/bernie-sanders-get-support-of-black-lives-matter-activists-in-vermont
MADem
(135,425 posts)And they have nothing to do with this topic...except for the "black people" component.
VT has a lot of black citizens in a Michigan private prison, and BLM activists are generally -- though not always--black.
That's the nexus between this thread and your post.
smh.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The few who spoke out in their linked article don't represent all of his constituents, do they?
Are these activists all white?
MADem
(135,425 posts)No need to lose your temper now--this is just a conversation.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I addressed your post politely, if you think that's losing my temper maybe you need a break?
"associate" = fellow Hillary supporter who jumped into the conversation
Where's the snark?
MADem
(135,425 posts)collusion. I am a DUer and my fellow DUers and I--some of us, anyway--like to discuss issues of interest to us.
Now you're playing the belittling card and calling me "confused." I'm not that, either. Suggesting I "need a break." Mmm hmm! Temper, temper, now!
Perhaps you might want to take your OWN advice, eh?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Since there's no indication I lost my temper I can't think of another explanation.
By "associate" I was referring to your fellow Hillary supporter who jumped in the middle of this sub thread. It's a common term used here but if it's offensive to you I won't use it anymore.
Honestly I'm not even mildly perturbed but if this is too much for you right now you can always stop responding.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Here's that "confused" charge again.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And it's not an insult to suggest that you might be confused since I haven't lost my temper.
If you see a post with an insult or personal attack you should alert on it, simply using the term "associate" and wondering why you think I'm losing my temper doesn't quite rise to that level imo.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If you're that unhappy that you have to snark and be rude to people, that's your personal issue. I can't help but notice that you do it a lot.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Pot day HELLO to kettle! Irony meters all over the world just exploded. Have you read your own posts?
"I can't help but notice that you do it a lot"
Meta much?
MADem
(135,425 posts)As for "meta" you might want to re-check the rules on that.
Meta within the confines of a thread is a go. It's only as a thread starter that it becomes iffy--if it's "disruptive" that is.
You go out of your way to direct personal insults at individuals who post here. I don't. I talk about candidates and issues, not DUers. You talk about DUers--like you're doing about me and others, in this thread.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)There's that irony again, your posting history speaks for itself. More insults and meta from you and still no proof of how I insulted you.
What a shock.
Maybe you should stick to the issues and stop with the personal attacks. Just a friendly suggestion.
MADem
(135,425 posts)By your words we know you, bmus.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You also said I lost my temper when I didn't, what's up with that?
Perhaps you have another explanation but honestly I've re-read my posts and still don't see what you do.
Like I said, maybe you should just stick to the issues, this endless meta is kind of tedious and just further derails the thread.
MADem
(135,425 posts)situation, certainly.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)95. What's this "associate" snark? Getting a bit testy?
No need to lose your temper now--this is just a conversation.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1333505
I addressed your accusation, nothing more.
Again you should have discussed the issues instead of making this all about me. When you can't prove your claim it's time to move on, personal attacks and meta don't solve anything.
MADem
(135,425 posts)But why am I not surprised? IOKIYBMUS, or something?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's a commonly used term to describe fellow supporters and taking offense to it repeatedly even after I clarified is silly.
If you're going to continue with these accusations and personal attacks I'm going to have to end this meta subthread.
You can have the last word, I'll let the course of events speak for themselves.
You have a super nice day, 'kay?
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's an organized crime code word, too, particularly when used in the context that you did, and it suggests criminality and collusion.
It is not a common word here on this board at all. Most of us refer to other members of DU as "DUers."
And it's not "silly" (another denigrating, personal, minimizing expression and yet another example of your passive approach to goading, baiting and snarking) to point it out.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Okay, now I'm done, thanks for the laugh, I really needed it after all this bizarre meta. I've explained repeatedly what I meant but if you're so intent on finding offense where none was meant have at it, I won't try to stop you. Enjoy!
Bye now!
(I was going to say "ciao" but I was afraid you might take that the wrong way too)
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I think Bernie tends to run away from racial and ethnic issues, Carney concluded.
Other black activists in Vermont echoed Carneys conclusion that Sanders was more comfortable eschewing matters of race in favor of a more general focus on economics a habit he was heavily criticized for early in his presidential campaign by the likes of Black Lives Matter. Sanders has since beefed up his racial and social justice platform, picking up crucial African-American endorsements and hiring black activists to join his campaign, but some black leaders in Vermont argue that Sanders has had more than enough time to warm himself to black voters before this presidential election.
Curtiss Reed Jr. executive director of the Vermont Partnership for Fairness and Diversity, recounted a 2006 candidate forum for the open U.S. senate seat Sanders eventually won. To Reeds surprise, Sanders was just really dismissive of anything that had to do with race and racism, saying that they didnt have anything to do with the issues of income inequality.
He just always kept coming back to income inequality as a response, as if talking about income inequality would somehow make issues of racism go away. Reed complained that Sanders seemed to handle black activists in Vermont with benign neglect.
amborin
(16,631 posts)That makes Sullivan the second-most prolific lobbyist-bundler for the Clinton campaign, beaten out only by D.C. lobbyist Heather Podesta, who's tallied up $348,581 so far.
Sullivan's firm, Capitol Counsel, has been registered for years to represent GEO Group subsidiary BI Inc.which focuses on electronic monitoring of inmates. While the firm continues to represent BI, Sullivan no longer intends to do so, according to a disclosure form filed with Congress on Nov. 9.
The figures and the policy rejecting donations from prison lobbyists includes only direct donations to Clinton's campaign, not supportive super PACs or state and federal Democratic committees.
Prison lobbyist donations to Clinton and other candidates were highlighted last year in reports by the Intercept and Vice News.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2016/02/clinton-campaign-gives-private-prison-lobbyist-cash-to-charity-218524#ixzz419rqorfa
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Meanwhile Bernie never took a dime from them.
MADem
(135,425 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Res ipsa loquitur, you see.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Perhaps you don't understand that he can't change Vermont legislation?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)because the Republicans are just so terrible, but yet posts ridiculous shit like this to try to smear the better Democratic candidate.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I support Hillary but will vote for Bernie should he be the nominee. There are countless negative Hillary threads. I just think we should level the playing field.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)He is a US Senator, and as such he usually has one vote out of 100 on matters pertaining to national/federal laws. But he has NO vote on matters that pertain to state laws in Vermont.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)You can't understand basic civics-- US Senators have absolutely no authority over STATE laws in their respective states. They represent their states at the FEDERAL level.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Does anyone blame (or credit) Hillary for New York?
Just smile, wave and nod.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I can't wait.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)He is a Senator in the federal government.
How irrelevant can a post get?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)He can't be involved in his community and bring up problems to the governor?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)You should address this issue to those who run the Democratic Party in Vermont.
They should change the facts you describe.
Bernie has said that he would make each case of a death in police custody into a federal issue and support legislation to that effect.
That is exactly what I think needs to be done. And Bernie wants to reform the prison system in ways that will benefit the African-American community and help to empty prisons. I support Bernie in these efforts.
He is involved in his community and was mayor of Burlington in the 1980s, but prison policies are not his responsibility. They are the responsibility of the state and local police officers and government.
Not much Bernie can do about this. He has enough to do as a senator in Congress dealing with federal issues.
To ask him to "fix" a serious problem that is not within his jurisdiction as a senator is very unfair and suggests a lack of understanding about how our justice system and state legislatures work.
Marr
(20,317 posts)The woman only wanted HRC to explain her very offensive quote about 'bringing them to heel' (and we all know who 'they' are) while pushing the '94 violent crime bill.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)I guess she thought the woman had forgotten her place-- said she doesn't even consider mass incarceration to be an issue, and just went back to addressing her well-to-do white fans with a smile.
Marr
(20,317 posts)needing to be 'brought to heel'.
I mean, I know she wanted to appear 'tough on crime' at the time, and didn't think she'd ever need the black vote. Probably thought that line would earn a little support from white racists, too. But still... seems like a pretty unwise and... well... vile thing to say. I would like to have heard her explanation as well. Too bad she had the protester dragged away.
Oh well, I guess she wanted to talk about the issues that she and her well-to-do white audience actually consider important.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Are you suggesting Sanders (who is not a STATE Senator and does not make STATE law) has anything to do with these numbers?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)The same as any other Senator in the US Senate as opposed to the Vermont State Senate.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Hillary. That ought to make a lot of blacks stay home in November.
We are pitting our own base against each other by showing and gloating over how bad we can show the opponent is for segments of our own base. The GOP is loving this.
Why can't we just stick to discussions that don't personally vilify our candidates. The GOP doesn't even have to spend much money making ads against us, all their material can be found here and other boards that are used to trash the opposing candidate.
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I think it's like that everywhere, proportionally more AAs locked up because Bill wanted to prove he was tough on crime.
I wouldn't suppose a Senator is responsible for everything that happens in his state.
Let's make him president so he can turn around all those horrible mistakes Clinton wrought on the country.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)You mean a U.S. Senator hasn't been able to establish a different criminal justice system in his own state?
Do you have any statistics on what percentage of bankster crooks in the U.S. are from Hillary's home state of NY and how many have contributed to her campaign and/or paid her obscene sums for "speeches"?
LexVegas
(6,094 posts)PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)PotatoChip
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I'm not suggesting that the stats are incorrect (even though they could be), but I'd really like to see the data for myself.
Not that it matters much anyway... As other people in this thread have already pointed out, Bernie has no control over state matters. I would think that most everyone who reads the article would already know that.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)think
(11,641 posts)mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)It shows up on my screen perhaps a dozen times and is, IMHO, a classic troll. The OP attacks Sanders for not reforming racist law enforcement in Vermont, something he has as much influence on as any other citizen, i.e. not much. A more sensible target might be the officials in the state government who have enabled this situation to arise and continue. I would also point out that most of the Democratic Party elected officials support HRC.
So why keep this going? There is absolutely no reason to suspect that any answer to this OP will satisfy the person who keeps it going. Why participate?
As a matter of fact, other than posting good news and serious issues (the latest Brock lies, Tweeties tingling legs, the Hillary supporters tossing BLM under the bus for daring to treat the Chosen One the same way Sanders was treated, etc.) I cannot understand why anyone responds to a post that clearly exists only to incense Sanders' supporters.
Why enable these folks?
Vinca
(50,303 posts)the "heroin" highway? It's a regular route from the cities to the south up into rural areas where the heroin crisis results in death on a daily basis. Not a day goes by that you don't read about a car from Connecticut or New York or Massachusetts being stopped by a trooper and hundreds of bags of heroin confiscated. I would suspect, given the small number of people of color who live in the state, that much of the 10.7% attributed to black inmates are people from somewhere other than Vermont and not Vermont residents.