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busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:23 PM Feb 2016

Am I crazy? Tweety is an idiot but

his Rant tonight about how President Sanders won’t be able to get anything done because of the 60 vote threshold..? was just plain bullshit!!

Bernies answer was by amping up the millions upon millions to force the change.. Tweety wouldn’t let go of the 60 vote problem he would encounter as president ...

Now,, Couldn’t Bernie have answered by simply stating that it might not happen in his first year as President..., however, if he fights like hell from the bully pulpit for a long enough time and effectively reaches our populace, then perhaps in 2 or 3 election cycles..change would begin to happen.

Fucking Mathew's really pissed me off with his insistence that the 60 vote threshold would negate Bernie from achieving his agenda..

I posted this in a rush...Off to work..

103 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Am I crazy? Tweety is an idiot but (Original Post) busterbrown Feb 2016 OP
Did you expect less? Chris Natthews is a corporate news megaphone. kimbutgar Feb 2016 #1
Forget Trump, how will *Hillary* get 60 votes for much of anything? thesquanderer Feb 2016 #66
Did you hear? pdsimdars Feb 2016 #99
I bet if you check the Super Delegates and the political endorsers they all got campaign money from Dustlawyer Feb 2016 #101
I don't think Chris is ready for a New Deal. PatrickforO Feb 2016 #2
I haven't watched him since 2008 and I even dropped cable last spring. CentralMass Feb 2016 #3
Comcast signs Tweety's check. rurallib Feb 2016 #4
Why does he assume the makeup of the Senate is static? n/t DefenseLawyer Feb 2016 #5
+100! nt slipslidingaway Feb 2016 #6
I was hoping Bernie would say to him - Don't tell me No we can't! We have to at least try. jillan Feb 2016 #7
Why do we have to try? MaggieD Feb 2016 #23
No We Can't!!!!!! Waaaaaaaa!! jillan Feb 2016 #24
But what if voters just don't want Bernie's proposals? MaggieD Feb 2016 #25
But polls show they do. Fawke Em Feb 2016 #35
Those are concepts - not Bernie's proposals MaggieD Feb 2016 #38
ROFL! MsLeopard Feb 2016 #28
How could a Progressive not.. busterbrown Feb 2016 #74
Most "progressives" are not in favor of Bernie's proposals MaggieD Feb 2016 #75
So you are not in favor of free State Run Colleges. busterbrown Feb 2016 #77
You need to understand the difference between concepts and proposals MaggieD Feb 2016 #78
You are one heck of a great progressive.. busterbrown Feb 2016 #82
Yes, I am MaggieD Feb 2016 #84
“Socialists” Love the way you keep leaving out the “Democratic" busterbrown Feb 2016 #86
Unfortuanetly whichever Democrat wins Lebam in LA Feb 2016 #8
It's entirely possible BernieforPres2016 Feb 2016 #11
You mean make the effort for things YOU want to see? MaggieD Feb 2016 #20
Republicans don't count... John Poet Feb 2016 #36
Sorry, everybody counts MaggieD Feb 2016 #40
they don't get to vote? treestar Feb 2016 #69
Actually, they do agree with it. Fawke Em Feb 2016 #37
Nope - they want to fix capitalism, not convert to socialism MaggieD Feb 2016 #39
We got it Maggie. No universal health care. No free public colleges. No relief for Luminous Animal Feb 2016 #44
We are very close to universal healthcare.... MaggieD Feb 2016 #46
We are close to "everyone has to buy insurance." And no rich kid is going to abandon Harvard or Yale Luminous Animal Feb 2016 #47
Thank you marions ghost Feb 2016 #79
Other than free college, what proposal do you not want to see. Luminous Animal Feb 2016 #49
It would be easier to ask me which I agree with.... MaggieD Feb 2016 #51
again. what crap do you not want. Luminous Animal Feb 2016 #53
I don't want any of Bernie's crap MaggieD Feb 2016 #56
Yep. As I thought. Can't name the "crap". Luminous Animal Feb 2016 #58
Are you not aware of his proposals or something? MaggieD Feb 2016 #60
Blink. Luminous Animal Feb 2016 #62
Those people should vote for someone else. thesquanderer Feb 2016 #68
Tweety's favorite days in politics BernieforPres2016 Feb 2016 #9
If it takes Bernie two election cycles, Progressive dog Feb 2016 #10
Bernie says over and over that one person can't do it alone BernieforPres2016 Feb 2016 #13
Bernie only recently became a Democrat Progressive dog Feb 2016 #27
Taking away healthcare? Fawke Em Feb 2016 #41
But we keep hearing that if Sanders doesn't win the nomination mythology Feb 2016 #85
Then it is a good thing that Bernie has told us that is not jwirr Feb 2016 #15
After all, a lifelong politician like Bernie has Progressive dog Feb 2016 #30
No, being a life long politician has made him understand that jwirr Feb 2016 #32
I think I get it. You want someone like Don Quixote Progressive dog Feb 2016 #34
LOL I am 74 years old and I want someone who is honest. jwirr Feb 2016 #73
Which President did you believe Progressive dog Feb 2016 #91
Oh, forgive me for answering your post. I shall humble jwirr Feb 2016 #95
History? nt Progressive dog Feb 2016 #96
People don't need to see everything at once, they just need to see progress. thesquanderer Feb 2016 #72
Their patience with Obama sure makes Progressive dog Feb 2016 #88
Even the people who grew impatient with Obama gave him time. thesquanderer Feb 2016 #89
One candidate in the Democratic primary Progressive dog Feb 2016 #92
What does that have to do with the point we were discussing? Non sequitur... thesquanderer Feb 2016 #93
I was replying to your posts, Progressive dog Feb 2016 #98
I didn't see that rant, but based on your description, NurseJackie Feb 2016 #12
Hillary, on the other hand, would have no problem getting 60 votes BernieforPres2016 Feb 2016 #16
And she'd be so willing to "work across the aisle" dflprincess Feb 2016 #21
Nah, but she's not promising a lot of pie in the sky stuff either MaggieD Feb 2016 #22
Trillions for corporations and military contractors are never pie-in-the-sky for Hill & Co. Arugula Latte Feb 2016 #42
Well sadly we are an economic superpower, and.... MaggieD Feb 2016 #45
We're an economic superpower if you're a CEO or a Wall St. banker Arugula Latte Feb 2016 #48
Stop blaming Hillary and blame the GOP MaggieD Feb 2016 #50
Oh, but it is some democrats or shall we say third way-ers i.e. republican lite hollysmom Feb 2016 #54
Well I guess when you're a socialist everyone else looks republican to you MaggieD Feb 2016 #55
I am not a socialist Ihave been a proud progressive hollysmom Feb 2016 #65
Hillary isn't promising pie in the sky treestar Feb 2016 #70
I haven't watched Tweety for years. Can't stand him. One jwirr Feb 2016 #14
He acted gleeful at the end. With people like Matthews this country NEVER would have attempted Skwmom Feb 2016 #17
Tweety is right MaggieD Feb 2016 #18
It sounds like you're saying that the years of struggle, Blue_In_AK Feb 2016 #61
"Millions will force change"? redstateblues Feb 2016 #63
I'm with you - I think Bernie is FOS MaggieD Feb 2016 #64
Congratulations! You just earned my fourth "Total Ignore" Award! Kip Humphrey Feb 2016 #102
Couldn't care less MaggieD Feb 2016 #103
Everybody with a brain knows moondust Feb 2016 #19
I agree with Bernie because I have a brain... k8conant Feb 2016 #29
Yep. moondust Feb 2016 #31
Drove me NUTS! elleng Feb 2016 #26
Given the strategy employed by the GOP during the Obama years, Matthews was right to raise this. CBHagman Feb 2016 #33
2022 - two years after the 2020 census MaggieD Feb 2016 #43
+1 treestar Feb 2016 #71
The 60 vote threshhold prevents anyone from doing anything, other than things like repealing Glass merrily Feb 2016 #52
And the party in charge can end the 60-vote requirement at any time. n/t PoliticAverse Feb 2016 #57
If Chris Matthews has one iota of integrity he would apologize and resign. Impedimentus Feb 2016 #59
The separation of powers is so inconvenient treestar Feb 2016 #67
Imagine Bernie Sanders wins the White House. Then what? Gothmog Feb 2016 #76
Tweety repeated UglyGreed Feb 2016 #80
Matthews's wife is running for Congress and tied to Hillary. Avalux Feb 2016 #81
I'd rather see a visionary in the WH than sadoldgirl Feb 2016 #83
And like I've said before... OZi Feb 2016 #87
piss on Mathews madokie Feb 2016 #90
I thought that we were reality based. 60 votes has stopped Obama from most everything themaguffin Feb 2016 #94
I liked the guy who commented that Bernie has to pass a 60 vote threshhold pdsimdars Feb 2016 #97
Tweety pimps whatever message his owners tell him to pimp. hifiguy Feb 2016 #100

kimbutgar

(21,164 posts)
1. Did you expect less? Chris Natthews is a corporate news megaphone.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:25 PM
Feb 2016

I agree he did ask Bernie hard questions. Can you imagine him asking trump the same type of question? How will trump get 60 votes in the senate to approve his wall?

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
66. Forget Trump, how will *Hillary* get 60 votes for much of anything?
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:00 AM
Feb 2016

The difference is, Sanders will Try. And what can't be done with the 2016-elected congress might be more do-able with the 2018, 2020, or 2022. It will depend on Sanders and his supporters to continue to fight for what they want past election day, which Bernie himself says as well. Hillary? I don't see it.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
99. Did you hear?
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:41 PM
Feb 2016

Chris's wife is running for office in Maryland as the "centrist" Democrat and, oddly enough, she has raised more money than anyone else running and it's mainly from 3 out of state "donors" who have been long time funders and supporters of the Clintons. Isn't that a strange co-incidence? Who'd have guessed that?

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
101. I bet if you check the Super Delegates and the political endorsers they all got campaign money from
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:26 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary's Donors, that's why they did it! The corruption has reached critical mass!

PatrickforO

(14,578 posts)
2. I don't think Chris is ready for a New Deal.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:27 PM
Feb 2016

Sometimes he cannot see beyond the end of his nose, as I have heard him scoff at the 'political revolution' and actually deliberately misread/misunderstand it on the air.

Leaders set the vision, and the people perish without a vision. Bully pulpits are for setting, communicating and reinforcing vision. Think back. That's what the Fireside Chats were. The media is different now, but the concept is the same.

rurallib

(62,426 posts)
4. Comcast signs Tweety's check.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:28 PM
Feb 2016

Comcast has let Ed and Rev. Al and I can't even remember who else go or get cut way back.
Tweety makes a fucking wad of money.

I bet you could write what tweety will be saying for the next six months.
Questions?

jillan

(39,451 posts)
7. I was hoping Bernie would say to him - Don't tell me No we can't! We have to at least try.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:33 PM
Feb 2016

That is the one message that keeps coming from the other campaign and the media that makes me scream.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
25. But what if voters just don't want Bernie's proposals?
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:08 PM
Feb 2016

I think that's the real issue. Ever considered that?

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
35. But polls show they do.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:42 PM
Feb 2016
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/5-radical-bernie-sanders-ideas-many-americans-strongly-support

The problem is that our representatives don't represent us. They represent the 1 percent or whatever corporation is funding them, so none of these proposals ever see the light of day.

A Bernie presidency would shine a big light on them and either these reps will have to do something with them or risk being voted out of office.

This is what Tweety couldn't understand, either. Sanders has risen so quickly from obscurity because he's speaking to issues Americans want to talk about and want to get passed. Bernie is the first senator to speak to these issues in decades. By just TALKING about these issues, he fires people up - and these are the issues the next generation wants to talk about.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
38. Those are concepts - not Bernie's proposals
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:57 PM
Feb 2016

They don't track over to Bernie's proposals.

They support Obama's plan for free community college, not Bernie's plan to send rich kids to college off a tax on middle class 401ks. They support healthcare for all, and a public option on the ACA, but not single payer that prohibits selling commercial / private insurance.

I don't see anything you posted about breaking up banks (and wreaking havoc on all of our retirement savings), or raising taxes on the middle class, or increasing the size of government by 40-50%.

The devil is always in the details, as they say. And I will tell you what I hear from people - they want to fix capitalism. Not convert to Socialism.

MsLeopard

(1,265 posts)
28. ROFL!
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:13 PM
Feb 2016

DUzy 100,000 times over. The fine line between comedy and tragedy becomes very blurred when one looks at the reality we experience today. Thanks for the laugh!

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
75. Most "progressives" are not in favor of Bernie's proposals
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:19 PM
Feb 2016

... if the polling is accurate, and so far it appears to be accurate.

I think what you mean to complain about is that most Dems aren't buying into the socialist solutions.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
77. So you are not in favor of free State Run Colleges.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:35 PM
Feb 2016

or Medicare for all? Do you realize that Medicare for all is a huge tax break for the middle class?

How about term.. Democratic Socialism? Does that fix your problem? Cause thats what Bernie is calling it!

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
78. You need to understand the difference between concepts and proposals
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 02:19 PM
Feb 2016

No, I am not in favor of taxing middle class 401ks to send rich kids to college. I fully support the Obama/Hillary plan for debt free college.

As for Bernie's healthcare plan, the numbers are pure fiction. We spent $3T on healthcare expenditures in 2014. Medicare and Medicaid alone are $1T per year. $1.38T (his number) to cover 29 million more people with less restrictions on coverage than we have now is simply fantastical bullshit. Sorry. And no, I am not in favor of outlawing private insurance, as his plan proposes.

I am in favor of expanding the ACA. Adding a public option would be excellent. Although I do not think it will happen unless we can get rid of gerrymandering in the next re-districting in 2022.

As for "Democratic Socialism" - sorry, the fact that the socialist leader is elected instead of a dictator doesn't change the fact that it's socialism.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
82. You are one heck of a great progressive..
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:33 PM
Feb 2016

You just stated that its o.k. to make a profit off a human being’s state of health...

You lose a lot of credibility with your statement “ I am not in favor of outlawing private insurance”.

Private Insurance Companies IMO, should exist only for the wealthy who might consider Vanity Surgeries.


In the meantime you should perhaps scroll down this article to see some of the successes of Social Democratic Govts.

How the heck can you so easily dismiss their way of life so easily.

Something is very off with your reasoning..

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2009/05/11/worlds-happiest-countries-social-democracies
i

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
84. Yes, I am
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:39 PM
Feb 2016

Been extremely active politically for at least 20 years. Helped elect a blue state legislature in my state, and pass LGBT anti-discrimination bills and marriage.

I phone bank and canvass for Dems even in off year elections. I donate regularly to Dem candidates and progressive organizations. So yes, I am a great progressive and always have been.

I am a Democrat. Not a socialist. And I reject your claim that someone has to be socialist to be progressive. In fact, in my many years of experience I have never seen the socialist brigade do jack for progressive causes.

These non-stop attacks on actual progressives who have actually worked their asses off while socialists sat on the couch or became keyboard warriors will NEVER help them get a seat at the table. Never. So keep up the good work.

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
86. “Socialists” Love the way you keep leaving out the “Democratic"
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 04:02 PM
Feb 2016

A Social Democratic Govt. in the U.S. Sweet sounds sweet to me..Man I guess you just hate Bernie Sanders
and the coalition of millions who are supporting him..

By the way:

“So keep up the good work” How the hell do you know what I do and don’t do with regards to my activism. So you don’t even want to get in a discussion with me on this..

Your non acceptance of the political term, Democratic Socialism still amazes me.. Why don’t you be honest about your hatred of the term..

Lebam in LA

(1,345 posts)
8. Unfortuanetly whichever Democrat wins
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:38 PM
Feb 2016

it will be just like the last 7 years if republicans keep the majority. They will plan from day 1 to obstruct, just like they did with President Obama.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
20. You mean make the effort for things YOU want to see?
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:57 PM
Feb 2016

Has it occurred to you that lots of people just don't agree with Sander's proposals?

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
40. Sorry, everybody counts
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:01 AM
Feb 2016

Including moderate and liberal (versus extremely liberal) Dems.

Did you know that liberals who identify as very or extremely liberal only make up 25% of the Dem party? And the Dem party only makes up about a third of the electorate?

So that is about 8% of the voting public that could be described as extremely or very liberal. That's reality.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
37. Actually, they do agree with it.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:44 PM
Feb 2016

The problem is that if any of the corporate-owned members of Congress actually brought them up for discussion, much less a vote, these representatives would no longer get the big bucks from corporations or billionaires because it's not what THEY want.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
44. We got it Maggie. No universal health care. No free public colleges. No relief for
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:07 AM
Feb 2016

student debt. No rebuilding of U.S. infrastructure. No jobs for youth. No end to endless war. No end to the drug war. No end to mass incarceration.

What a bright future! I'm in!

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
46. We are very close to universal healthcare....
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:15 AM
Feb 2016

That's not the same as single payer (although I see a lot of Sander's supporters who think they are the same thing - they aren't). Obama's plan for free community college is something we should continue to fight for, but again, not free college for rich kids paid for by tax increases that tax the middle class. The drug war on weed is over if we retain a Dem president. I think both Dems and the GOP want to fix the mandatory minimum issue.

But like I said before anyone who really wants a "revolution" needs to start with committing themselves to a lot of hard work to turn state legislatures and governors blue. Because that is what it takes to get rid of the gerrymandering. And we have until 2022 to do it.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
47. We are close to "everyone has to buy insurance." And no rich kid is going to abandon Harvard or Yale
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:33 AM
Feb 2016

or Stanford for a public university. AND Bernie's proposal does not tax the middle class to pay for any rich kid's education. And Hillary has flat out stated that weed will continue to be illegal. And mandatory minimums are only a small aspect of massive incarceration. The big part is what we make illegal, who we target and; because of their limited resources, who we jail and imprison.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
51. It would be easier to ask me which I agree with....
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:42 AM
Feb 2016

And that would be paid family leave, expanding SS, and movement on climate change. But Hillary also agrees with those issues and has proposals. So I am left with all his crap I do NOT want.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
60. Are you not aware of his proposals or something?
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:03 AM
Feb 2016

Or you can't deal with the fact that I support NONE of them? His "pay fors" on his proposals are either full of crap, or tax the middle class while he pretends he is just taxing "billionaires."

If you are trying to imply that because I am not going to waste my time typing out some list on your command, I am not informed, I promise you, you are barking up the wrong tree. I could bust more chops just on his silly single payer plan than 90% of the journalists out there.

Here, enjoy this - you will find it interesting, I'm sure:

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814798/bernie-sanders-tax-rates

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
68. Those people should vote for someone else.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:03 AM
Feb 2016

But so many of the "anti-Sanders" attacks are not about disagreeing with his goals, but instead, doubting that he can do them.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
9. Tweety's favorite days in politics
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:46 PM
Feb 2016

Are when Tip and a bunch of good old boys from both parties got together and cut deals in the back room and he got to talk about it. Funny that he didn't seem to have any idea about how pressure from the public could turn up the heat on Congress and get some action, given that's what Reagan did to his old boss Tip O'Neill while Chris was working for him. Now Chris has amnesia.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
10. If it takes Bernie two election cycles,
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:47 PM
Feb 2016

then he won't get a chance at a third.
People who believe that electing one man will change everything will be the first to desert that man.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
13. Bernie says over and over that one person can't do it alone
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:51 PM
Feb 2016

And I don't think he would quit saying it in the general election if he wins the nomination or in the White House if he wins the Presidency. I think every Sanders supporter here gets the message.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
27. Bernie only recently became a Democrat
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:13 PM
Feb 2016

which is why he has so little support for the nomination from Democrats already in Congress. They want to stay in office, so they are not going to run promising to take away everyone's health care, no matter what Bernie promises to replace it with. They are not going to run on a pledge to raise everyone's taxes no matter what Bernie says it will be spent on. Their constituents won't stand for it.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
41. Taking away healthcare?
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:04 AM
Feb 2016

????

Bernie wants Medicare for All. How is that taking away healthcare? He wouldn't ax the ACA until the other was in place. He's not an idiot.

And, thanks for thinking all Americans are dumb. Even Republicans can do basic math. It's not that hard of a proposition:

Example:

You pay $5,000 for health insurance a year, currently.

Under Bernie's plan, your taxes go up $500 a year, but you rid yourself of the $5,000 in premiums.

That's a $4,500 savings and you never have to deal with an insurance company again.

I think the American people can understand that.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
85. But we keep hearing that if Sanders doesn't win the nomination
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:39 PM
Feb 2016

(Often saying that if he loses it's because it was stolen) that the hopes and spirits of millenials will be crushed. Wouldn't that same crushing occur if Sanders doesn't get his proposals passed? I mean if they are so fragile that they can't handle losing a primary, how can they deal with constant Republican obstruction?

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
32. No, being a life long politician has made him understand that
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:24 PM
Feb 2016

no one can do it alone and he is not promising to do anything alone. Anyone who thinks we are all expecting him to raise his hand and part the Red Sea does not understand where we are coming from.

We want someone who will try to do what we want regardless if it is a sure thing or not.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
34. I think I get it. You want someone like Don Quixote
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:37 PM
Feb 2016

as President and you think that describes Bernie. You don't really expect him to part the Red Sea.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
73. LOL I am 74 years old and I want someone who is honest.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:52 AM
Feb 2016

It has been a long time since we have had an honest president.

And all you want is someone who wins. Well we have had that before and look where we are at.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
91. Which President did you believe
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:08 AM
Feb 2016

to be honest?
Don't presume to tell me what I want. I don't only want someone who wins, I want someone who stands up for this nation, of which I am pleased to be a citizen. I do not want a President who used to stand up for repressive regimes as long as they claimed to be socialist. I do not want a former mayor of a little city in Vermont who thought bread lines were a sign of a healthy economy in socialist Nicaragua. A mayor who claimed that Lincoln and FDR acted like the murderous totalitarian Sandinista regime of Daniel Ortega.
If Bernie becomes the Democratic nominee, I will vote for him as the lesser of two evils. At least we have more chance of keeping some progress alive with Bernie than with any Republican.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
95. Oh, forgive me for answering your post. I shall humble
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:55 AM
Feb 2016

myself in front of your greater knowledge of history.

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
72. People don't need to see everything at once, they just need to see progress.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:06 AM
Feb 2016

For example, if he can achieve 10% of what he campaigned on in his first two years, and another 20% of it in his next two years (with a further changed congress), even though he will will only have accomplished less than a third of what he set out to do, I think supporters would still be willing to re-relect, because we'd be on the right track.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
92. One candidate in the Democratic primary
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:12 AM
Feb 2016

wanted Obama to have a primary opponent in 2012. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
93. What does that have to do with the point we were discussing? Non sequitur...
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:19 AM
Feb 2016

...as well as something that has been well discussed in other threads.

Progressive dog

(6,905 posts)
98. I was replying to your posts,
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:41 PM
Feb 2016

and the OP was "am I crazy? etc." which is hardly an invitation to a reasonable or narrowly ranging discussion.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
16. Hillary, on the other hand, would have no problem getting 60 votes
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:53 PM
Feb 2016

Because the Republicans love her.

But then again, she doesn't have much of an agenda to enact anyway.

dflprincess

(28,079 posts)
21. And she'd be so willing to "work across the aisle"
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:57 PM
Feb 2016

even if it meant selling her voters out.

But at least she'd be "getting something done" and she won't need those suckers again until 2020.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
22. Nah, but she's not promising a lot of pie in the sky stuff either
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:00 PM
Feb 2016

I'd say she can probably get a few things through, but not much. She will be better on FP and exec orders and judges. She will make better cabinet appointments as well.

Also, I just don't want a lot of the stuff Bernie is proposing. so there is that as well. I think a lot of voters feel the same.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
42. Trillions for corporations and military contractors are never pie-in-the-sky for Hill & Co.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:04 AM
Feb 2016

Yet, ask for something that most advanced nations have, such as affordable healthcare and affordable higher education, and you're basically told to go fuck yourself, hippie.

Funny how that works.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
45. Well sadly we are an economic superpower, and....
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:08 AM
Feb 2016

What keeps us that way is our military. As they say, our economy is essentially backed with "men with guns."

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
48. We're an economic superpower if you're a CEO or a Wall St. banker
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:35 AM
Feb 2016

If you're a middle class shmuck struggling to put your kids through college like I am, you're screwed. And that's thanks to power players like Hillary who prop up this insane system of impoverishing the many to benefit the few.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
50. Stop blaming Hillary and blame the GOP
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:39 AM
Feb 2016

It's not Democrats that do this shit. It's republicans. And that is one of the things I loathe about Sanders the most. He is simply full of shit when he implies the Democrats in congress or Obama caused these problems. Complete BS.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
55. Well I guess when you're a socialist everyone else looks republican to you
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:50 AM
Feb 2016

However, only 25% of the Dem party voters consider themselves "very or extremely" liberal.

And by the way, nobody who is "republican lite" is in favor of the ACA, expanded SS, and free community college. Hope that helps.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
65. I am not a socialist Ihave been a proud progressive
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:31 AM
Feb 2016

I can read and when many of the proposals that third way has match the republican proposals it seems pretty obvious to me. You don't have to be a dog to see the ppo on the ground

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
14. I haven't watched Tweety for years. Can't stand him. One
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:51 PM
Feb 2016

question. IF we can take the senate back can't we change that 60 vote rule at the beginning for the session? I remember being mad at Reid because he did not do it.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
17. He acted gleeful at the end. With people like Matthews this country NEVER would have attempted
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:55 PM
Feb 2016

to create our own country, give women the right to vote, pass the civil right acts, etc.

Maddow is another gleeful schmuck.
 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
18. Tweety is right
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:55 PM
Feb 2016

That's simply reality.

I really don't understand what Sanders supporters mean when they claim "millions will force change." Like a rally or a march or something? That isn't going to force anything through congress. Doesn't work that way. I guess if you had constant riots or something like the years long civil rights movement that might get some simple stuff changed - nothing major.

But if you are counting on these kids that are voting for him to do that I think you're going to be very disappointed. They just aren't that committed to politics, as we saw in the mid terms (and the decrease in turnout so far as compared to 2008). One rally or march might be fun for them, but then they will go back to gaming, clubs, normal life.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
61. It sounds like you're saying that the years of struggle,
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:16 AM
Feb 2016

"constant riots or something" that brought about the civil rights legislation of the '60s was "simple stuff." It sounds like you want everyone to just shut up, stay home and accept the status quo.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
63. "Millions will force change"?
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:20 AM
Feb 2016

More details on that please. Sounds a little naive for a lifelong politician.

moondust

(19,993 posts)
19. Everybody with a brain knows
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:56 PM
Feb 2016

that correcting the gigantic mistakes and injustices of the past 35 years (that Matthews watched from a position of relative power w/o raising much of a fuss) won't happen overnight. Bernie cited good examples in the civil rights and women's movements and DOMA.

k8conant

(3,030 posts)
29. I agree with Bernie because I have a brain...
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:14 PM
Feb 2016

that remembers what he and I have lived through in this country.

I believe the dreams that got shot up in 1968 are finally coming to the forefront again after being beaten down for years.

moondust

(19,993 posts)
31. Yep.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:19 PM
Feb 2016

Joy Reid was on the Chris Hayes show earlier tonight talking briefly about that very thing--the resurgence of the old Democratic Party before it was hijacked by the DLC.

elleng

(130,980 posts)
26. Drove me NUTS!
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:10 PM
Feb 2016

Left for TV-land. Have avoided matthews for years; NOTHING changing!

LUCKY you have work to go to!

CBHagman

(16,986 posts)
33. Given the strategy employed by the GOP during the Obama years, Matthews was right to raise this.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:36 PM
Feb 2016

Or perhaps I should use the word spite in this case instead of strategy. We've all seen what happened from the first hours after the announcement of Antonin Scalia's death. It doesn't really take that many senators to gum up the works, but during the current administration the Republicans were openly hellbent on making that the case.

As yet we don't know what the makeup of the Senate will be, but it's not as though every seat isn't going to count when it comes to passing a new administration's agenda. And that's without even considering the House, which, thanks to gerrymandering, is projected to remain in GOP hands for at least a few years longer.

 

MaggieD

(7,393 posts)
43. 2022 - two years after the 2020 census
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:06 AM
Feb 2016

That's how long we have to build up and elect Dem state legislatures and governors so that re-districting won't screw us and we can un-gerrymander this shit.

Anyone who really wants a "revolution" needs to start there and commit themselves to a lot of hard work. Because that is what it takes. Although I will say it is much easier to turn a state seat than a federal one.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
71. +1
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:05 AM
Feb 2016

The President and the bully pulpit and everyone else following like sheep is their obsession and all they depend on. It's embarrassing. Even the Tea Party knows to start lower.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
52. The 60 vote threshhold prevents anyone from doing anything, other than things like repealing Glass
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:44 AM
Feb 2016

Steagall and other things Republicans dream of.

Few people know that better than Tweety. He used to work for the Speaker of the House. Tweety was being disingenuous. Also, very obnoxious and rude in the way that he kept hectoring with that question, interrupting, talking over, etc. He's a disgrace.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
67. The separation of powers is so inconvenient
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:02 AM
Feb 2016

So are elected Republicans who take everything to the extreme.

The bully pulpit as answer is oversimplified. It is not a miracle allowing a Presidential dictatorship. This is a free country and anyone is allowed to oppose the President, whether in the media, the Senate or just regular conversations or DU.

Gothmog

(145,344 posts)
76. Imagine Bernie Sanders wins the White House. Then what?
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:32 PM
Feb 2016

Sanders' plans for adopting his proposals depend on these new voters. Here is how Sanders thinks that he will be able to force the GOP to be reasonable http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/21/1483791/-Imagine-Bernie-Sanders-wins-the-White-House-Then-what

Bernie Sanders has made some very big promises when it comes to his legislative priorities: He says he’ll make college free, pass a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United, and institute a generous single-payer national health insurance program. And when he’s asked how he’ll turn these promises into reality, he says that he and his supporters will help bring about a “political revolution.”

That’s a phrase Sanders uses often, but what does he mean by it? Sanders has said that if he wins the presidency, his victory will be accompanied by a “huge increase in voter turnout”—one that he thinks might end Republican control of Congress. But Sanders acknowledges that the House and Senate could, in spite of his best efforts, remain in GOP hands come next January.

Given that likelihood, Sanders offers an alternate means for achieving his political revolution. He says he knows that a Democratic president can’t simply “sit down and negotiate” with Republican leaders and forge a series of compromises. Anyone who's observed the GOP’s behavior over the course of Barack Obama’s presidency would not dispute that, and in any event, no compromise with Republicans would ever lead to single-payer anyway.

So what then? How would a President Sanders get Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan to pass any of his big-ticket items? This is the model he proposes:

What we do is you put an issue before Congress, let’s just use free tuition at public colleges and universities, and that vote is going to take place on November 8 ... whatever it may be. We tell millions and millions of people, young people and their parents, there is going to be a vote ... half the people don’t know what’s going on ... but we tell them when the vote is, maybe we welcome a million young people to Washington, D.C. to say hello to their members of Congress. Maybe we have the telephones and the e-mails flying all over the place so that everybody in America will know how their representative is voting. [...]

And then Republicans are going to have to make a decision. Then they’re going to have to make a decision. You know, when thousands of young people in their district are saying, “You vote against this, you’re out of your job, because we know what’s going on.” So this gets back to what a political revolution is about, is bringing people in touch with the Congress, not having that huge wall. That’s how you bring about change.

The rest of the DK article debunks that concept that Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell could be influenced by these new voters but we never get to this issue and Sanders himself admits that he will not bet elected without this revolution. So far we are not seeing any evidence of this revolution. Again, Sanders's whole campaign is based on this revolution and so it is appropriate to ask where these new voters are?

It is hard for me to take Sanders' proposals seriously including the ones you want to talk about unless and until we see some evidence of this revolution.

Again, where are these millions and millions of new voters?

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
80. Tweety repeated
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:00 PM
Feb 2016

that same meme last night with a Cruz supporter a Governor I believe and stated Bernie could not name anything he got 60 votes for even though Bernie mentioned the Veterans' Health bill. His wife must be getting a lot of support from Hillary's donors...

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
81. Matthews's wife is running for Congress and tied to Hillary.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:00 PM
Feb 2016

That's all we need to know. Bernie knew that sitting down with Matthews would be tricky and that he wouldn't get a fair shake. Journalism is dead.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
83. I'd rather see a visionary in the WH than
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 03:33 PM
Feb 2016

an incrementalist manager.

When JFK announced that we would send a man to
the moon in ten years, a lot of people thought that
he was nuts. Okay, it took 11 years, but it happened.

People with no vision love the status quo, and the
present one does not work for most people.

Tweety adores HRH, thus no surprise.

OZi

(155 posts)
87. And like I've said before...
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 04:19 PM
Feb 2016

I also want someone I trust not to get the wrong stuff done. The kinds of things that Tweety and his ilk would be fine with.

themaguffin

(3,826 posts)
94. I thought that we were reality based. 60 votes has stopped Obama from most everything
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:53 AM
Feb 2016

do you think that the GOP gives a shit about people complaining.

The ONLY way to really impact change is if Bernie gets a Democratic Congress. Period.

He needs to advocate that his supporters advocate for that and so far, I haven't seen that.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
97. I liked the guy who commented that Bernie has to pass a 60 vote threshhold
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:38 PM
Feb 2016

But Hillary only needs 60.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
100. Tweety pimps whatever message his owners tell him to pimp.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:58 PM
Feb 2016

He's a cringing bootlicker, but he makes $5 million per year, supposedly. That kind of money gets a LOT of bootlicking.

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