2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary DID call black kids Super Predators, here is a Wash Po article that covers it all
"Of course, every part of Williamss short-lived protest was a reference to actual language that Clinton used in another speech. That one happened in 1996 when Clinton was on the stump advancing President Bill Clintons criminal justice reforms. Thats true of the super-predator language Williams mentioned. Thats true of the phrase, We have to bring them to heel. And although, Williams didn't mention it, Clintons 1996 speech included some language about these so-called super-predators implying that they were a generation of guilt- and compassion-free sociopaths who, in the interest of society, simply had to be contained."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/26/why-hillary-clintons-super-predator-apology-is-such-a-big-moment-for-political-protest/
Includes a link to ViDEO of Clinton back in the day saying it
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)Approaching the fight for democracy as if it were a game, and a game without honor. It is quite disturbing to watch.
Broward
(1,976 posts)and former GWB supporters that were once roundly mocked around here.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)agreeing with Broward. Well said.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Thank you.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
oasis
(49,398 posts)of gang violence.
ret5hd
(20,508 posts)Don't know what either of our replies have to do with the OP though.
eomer
(3,845 posts)Call me liberal too.
But unlike Hillary, I don't ask to be called progressive, moderate, and conservative all at the same time. (Or maybe it's at different times as the situation/audience calls for).
7962
(11,841 posts)then violent crime should have been through the roof in the 30s, 40s, 50s & 60s when poverty was a helluva lot WORSE. Not to mention legalized discrimination. Yet it wasnt.
I'm not a hillary supporter, but I'm not going to blast her for saying something thats true either. People who continually offend and have records of violence as long as your arm ARE different from the run-of-the-mill crook.
eomer
(3,845 posts)End the fraudulent War on Drugs, spend the money saved on education and jobs, end privatized incarceration and along with it the over-criminalization of our society - in other words, fulfill our responsibilities as a decent society - and then we can see what else we need to do to help keep kids out of trouble. Oh, and where I live the schools have been putting kids on out-of-school suspension at the drop of a hat, and of course with a racial bias, which is a recipe for getting kids into trouble. There are a lot of things we ought to do to help kids. The right wing position that the Clintons have pushed along with Republicans is obviously designed to foster this problem and profit from it, along with the byproduct of disenfranchising millions of people's voting rights.
7962
(11,841 posts)We havent had that around here for years now, unless the student has been violent.
The bigger problem is the sorry parents. Kids who have parents who dont give a shit are a lot more likely to not care about school. A friend of mine who teaches was telling me how he's had to explain to his 3rd graders that cussing a blue streak isnt allowed in school, regardless of how much its done at home. And that you cant leave trash on the floor at school either!!
hamsterjill
(15,223 posts)I understand your reply perfectly. It's very telling that some others around here don't get the meaning, isn't it?
I guess some believe that those who commit crimes against others should not be held accountable. Have we really sunk to that level of mentality???!!! That scares the hell out of me.
oasis
(49,398 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)three strikes law that Hillary helped champion was a great success? It was an abysmal failure that has ruined so many lives.
oasis
(49,398 posts)localroger
(3,629 posts)I do not need people who shoplift pizzas going to jail for the rest of their lives because it happened, thank you very much.
oasis
(49,398 posts)If you want to make this about shoplifting pizzas, we have nothing further to discuss.
localroger
(3,629 posts)The "super predator" label is a smear that was used to sell policies that hurt a lot of young black people who never committed a drive by shooting. One infamous case was a guy who went away for the rest of his life for shoplifting a pizza. There is a direct line between the "super predator" rhetoric and that young man's sorry fate.
An entire generation was "brought to heel" because they were portrayed as being so dangerous that these crazy outcomes were an acceptable side effect of what "had to be done." And in the end, the crazy policies didn't really have much of an effect on the real problem of gang violence, but they ruined the lives of a hell of a lot of people who never touched a gun.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)you are a drive by shooter?
Full ignore
oasis
(49,398 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)Hillary remarks that "...the causes for why these "kids" become Super Preditors need to be looked at..." she never did address the causes except to lock them up and throw away the keys! So yes, everyone old enough remembers the crack epidemic and the resulting violence, nothing was ever done to prevent it except a war on drugs to lock up black people!
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)One side is systemic and the other individual.
oasis
(49,398 posts)armed robbery, witness intimidation and crack cocaine distribution, were pleading for immediate solutions.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)were sacrificed in the name of profits for prisons.
Wish that there was a profit to be made feeding the poor, continuing education for drop outs, and jobs for the youth. If all of those and other endeavors had a profit motive they would soon have funding instead of prison construction.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the problem was everyone was considered guilty no innocent vs guilty no good guy bad guy , sometimes the police would simply cordon off a block or 2 of a residential street, not projects mind you it was a mixture of owner occupied houses and rental properties and if you were walking down the street you were face down and usually cuffed - didn't matter whether you 8 or 80
eta suspected crack houses were simply attacked using front end loaders or bulldozers that was the MPD version of a no knock raid, one such house was raided in such a manner a few doors down from me-it shuck our whole and knocked me down I thought the furnace had exploded
TM99
(8,352 posts)Violent crime was no more or no less about these 'superpredators' then as it is now.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511341383
It tells me an awful lot about you that you still believe this racist myth today. You might want to look at that with some deep self-awareness.
oasis
(49,398 posts)So please, get that straight right now.
#2. Try asking the residents of the minority communities who lived through that period, if murders, armed robberies, witness intimidation and widespread crack distribution, was only a "myth".
I am a minority. I worked with the kids from those communities. I was in the trenches. Where the fuck were you?
You obviously didn't read my thread or you wouldn't have made such a boneheaded reply.
oasis
(49,398 posts)I lived in LA during that time period and I know what the hell I' m talking about. I know actual victims and families whole suffered from gang criminality.
Your perspective is exactly your own, The trenches you claim to have worked in must have been comfortably far from the front lines I have operated in on a daily basis.
TM99
(8,352 posts)I actually worked in the psychology field and still do. I worked with gang members, drug addicts, young kids with crime sheets, etc.
No one disputes that gang violence isn't real. Guess what? It is as real today as it was in the 1990's. Why? Because Clinton's superpredator myth fueled crime bill did shit to stop it. There was zero impact from the racist laws that came from this myth.
So your's is the biased perception based only on some anecdotal experiences that fly in the face of research evidence and professional experience.
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)Was a gang member growing up, and while he had stepped away from it i will never forget the conversations we had about living that life. One of the main points i remember so clearly was him saying, "in my hood you were either a member or a victim,i'm not a victim."
But as soon as he was able to leave that life, he did.
oasis
(49,398 posts)how adverse social conditions have forced many to turn to violent crime, my sympathy will always be for the actual victims.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)The so called "tough on crime" stance you support is not an effective solution. It's very profitable and emotionally satisfying for certain people, but really has no positive effect that I can tell. It's been a pretty devastating mentality that's created a lot more victims.
oasis
(49,398 posts)ANY solution for what has already occurred 20 years back.
Not repeating past mistakes as electing Sec Clinton would be. She had a chance to make a big difference and went with treating symptoms while ignoring the cause.
Which Hillary should I vote for? 3 strikes Hillary? Welfare Reform Hillary? Progressive Hillary? Moderate Hillary? So many candidates!
Reminds me of the schizophrenic neighbor I had in KC who would tell the hostess when asked how many in his party, "Party of 7, table for 1."
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)gangs did not just appear out of some mysterious vacuum. the problems of entrenched racism, isolation, poverty, lack of opportunity, pooe education, and various law enforcement schemes DO go back over 20 years and more. yo cannot fix a problem by ignoring its cause.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)Vinca
(50,300 posts)There's an underlying something going on here and I'd love to know what it is. You don't dismiss a person promoting everything that would benefit you and who fought for civil rights in favor of a person who has called you names and supported her husband's bills that hurt you unless there's a reason no one is talking about.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)many AA's do not know Bernie. They are just now being introduced to him. I would say that AA's have good reason to Not want a republican to win, so they are voting for the democrat that they think has the best shot to win. Just my theory.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)a word used for a dog.
How to teach your dog to heel
Vinca
(50,300 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)But apparently only PoC who support Sanders are troubled by it, whereas those that support Clinton are rationalizing it, justifying it, and explaining it away because otherwise it would be quite uncomfortable psychologically speaking.
Go figure! Amazing what some will do and believe and deny to support a candidate like her.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
SANDERS: Clearly there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.
KEITH: The early 1990s were a very different time. America was coming out of the crack epidemic. Violent crime was at its peak. News reports led with carjackings and gang violence. Again, Nicholas Turner.
ybbor
(1,555 posts)Bernie is stating the truth.
He did not call them names, nor did he use dehumanizing terms to discuss punishment.
I don't see your point.
Nor do I disagree or find offensive anything he said.
Gore1FL
(21,146 posts)I'd like to know what he said for the whole conversation in order to have valid context. I know who Sanders is. Who is Keith? The only Nicholas Turner I am aware of is the college football player who died.
Fundamentally, there actually are "Clearly there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them. "
I can list a few people to validate this:
Terry Nichols
Ted Kaczynski
Dennis Rader
?Dzhokhar Tsarnaev
Can you post a link to the entire text?
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Super-predator would -never- have implications for the safety and futures of their kids.
They've got nothing to worry about, so why would they worry... oh, ya, that election year thingy. They would worry their candidate of choice would be sullied.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)that banned differing opinions.
What are HRC fans afraid of?
NRaleighLiberal
(60,018 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)and I didn't do anything wrong. It appears that they want their echo chamber to themselves.
Loki
(3,825 posts)when they kept repeating Senator Robert Byrd, a great gentleman and a very fine Democratic Senator from West Virginia, a member of the KKK? Did you say, that was a long time ago, and he has changed? This argument is become stale and stupid and disingenuous.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)And HRC trying to whitewash the term is dog whistle racism.
Broward
(1,976 posts)It's just about getting her elected.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
MisterP
(23,730 posts)rather than even bragging that she could beat him: the DNC isn't well-known for garnering victories in GEs, now is it?
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)back her 500 bucks since she was not allowed to stay????
krawhitham
(4,645 posts)krawhitham
(4,645 posts)or is it just me
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)She certainly was not talking about "high HEELs"
Basic dog obedience - Making a dog HEEL
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Or something like that. Who was it that used that quote again?
The cherry picked clip from a speech on GANG (something that isn't, and wasn't at that time even majority black statistically), yet your side seems VERY interested in MAKING and altering the argument that was being made.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)So unless you think "gang" implies "black" (which is not only an inaccurate assumption but a racist one) she never called "black kids" anything at all, let alone "super predators".
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)but it was obvious code, meaning black
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)by all means- proceed.
40RatRod
(532 posts)...you will never be able to convince Bernie's supporters. Facts don't mean a lot on DU.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Seems like manufactured outrage to me.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)..... "as far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster". If this is the best ammunition Hillary's opponents have, it's not looking good for them.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)I expect she was pandering to white voters?
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)And that says a lot about her character.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:57 PM - Edit history (1)
I am of Scandinavian ancestry.
"...a generation of guilt- and compassion-free sociopaths who, in the interest of society, simply had to be contained." ~ Hillary
from the article (regarding Clinton crime bill) -
"To be clear, it made the nations already-elevated incarceration rate far, far worse. It stripped those convicted of drug crimes of all sorts of post-prison help, including federal student loans, making recidivism all the more likely."
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)The super-predator theory was alway bullshit, criminal justice researcher Franklin Zimring of the University of California, Berkeley, told BuzzFeed News. It was political rhetoric cloaking a movement that wanted to lock more people up.
Even in 1996, when Clinton made her remarks, Zimring and other criminologists suggested that the idea of an ever-increasing homicide rate was based on a fallacy that somehow some kids were just born criminals, and that children under 13 were somehow included in this cohort of super-criminals. They are worried about desperados in diapers, he wrote that year in the Los Angeles Times.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/danvergano/superpredator-theory
It's a pattern I associate with conservatives.
1. Find / create bogeyman, preferably an outsider / "other" suitable for framing.
2. Whip up hysteria, utilizing false information and preying on the human foible of imagining monsters under the bed.
3. Use this as a basis to increase police power, curtail personal freedom, and most importantly,
4. FUNNEL LOTS OF MONEY TO PRIVATE INTERESTS.
5. When it begins to become obvious the threat never existed, declare victory, claiming the abusive, exploitive "cure" is what worked.
6. Wash, rinse, repeat.
What bothers me most is that it demonstrates that Clinton's leadership "style" is to simply exploit whatever is available to gain and hold power. She does not swim upstream, but rather finds the current and jumps in.
This is not leadership. It's exploitation and power mongering. It's exactly why things improve so slowly, and sometimes get worse. People who think this way and utilize these techniques are not trying to actually accomplish anything but negotiating power structures for their own benefit. If allies need money, a reason to send them money will present itself. If a vulnerable population can be demonized to generate the fear / repression / profit model noted above, they will be so demonized.
It's not uniquely Hillary Clinton. She is not especially awful. But she is not any different or any better, either.
TM99
(8,352 posts)was for neoliberal like the white Clintons and Gores what the Satanic Panic was in the 1980's for the born-again Christians.
There is no difference between the two.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)for saying, so well, the way it is.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)doc03
(35,361 posts)MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)Are you implying that all gang members are black???