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Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:08 PM Mar 2016

Tonight I witnessed a shameful display of voter supression in Minnesota.

I just got back from witnessing the worst voter suppression I have ever seen. The Minnesota caucus I attended was an absolutely shameful embarrassment and some senior members of the Democratic Farmer Labor Party should resign over this mess.

In 2008 the caucus site was already overcrowded, but this year they had the brilliant idea of eliminating our overcrowded caucus site and combining it with another caucus site.

It was absolute chaos and I can guarantee a lot of potential voters turned away when they saw the traffic jam.

We had to park blocks away and walk, thankfully we were able-bodied because a disabled person would have never been able to find a place to park anywhere near the entrance.

When we got inside the halls were so crowded we could barely move. When we got to the sign-in table there was nobody staffing it, just a pile of papers spread across the table for us to hand write our names on.

After we wrote down our names we walked to a person handing out ballots, she asked us whether we signed in but there was no verification. It would have been extremely easy for a person to get multiple ballots and there was no one watching the ballot box which was a trash can.

Yes, you read that correct we voted by throwing our ballots in a TRASH CAN.

Nobody was guarding the trash can, we just threw our ballots in there and hoped they were not tampered with.

Apparently Republicans are not the only party engaged in voter suppression tactics, tonight the leadership of the Democratic Farmer Labor Party of Minnesota created a chaotic environment that no doubt kept many people from voting.

Some people should resign over this shameful act of voter suppression, I have never been more angry at my state party.

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Tonight I witnessed a shameful display of voter supression in Minnesota. (Original Post) Bjorn Against Mar 2016 OP
I'm not sure where you are but my daughter has been texting me the same about her caucus. Avalux Mar 2016 #1
My caucus was at Henry Sibley High School in Mendota Heights Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #5
She's in Winona, student at Winona State. Avalux Mar 2016 #11
Felt great to see the crowd inchhigh Mar 2016 #93
I tried to get there Jeb Bartlet Mar 2016 #113
Too many people voting BainsBane Mar 2016 #106
No the problem is not enough people are voting because the caucuses are designed to disenfranchise Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #114
I don't care who you support we should ALL be against disenfranchisement Arazi Mar 2016 #2
+1. Nt JudyM Mar 2016 #95
k&R Mbrow Mar 2016 #108
Why the hell can't we organize elections properly in this country? potone Mar 2016 #3
I am going to write some letters, I am pissed. Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author cyberpj Mar 2016 #9
Because we are an Oligarchy. Voting is largely kabuki in some areas. Tommymac Mar 2016 #43
This was NOT an election. Agschmid Mar 2016 #67
Because stupid people in certain states skepticscott Mar 2016 #88
"Why the hell can't we organize elections properly in this country?" ... Jopin Klobe Mar 2016 #90
Messy elections make cheating easier. nt valerief Mar 2016 #101
It's a feature, not a bug. nt tblue37 Mar 2016 #103
Video? votesparks Mar 2016 #4
Oh, look! More useful incompetence. I wonder who arranged it. n/t winter is coming Mar 2016 #7
THIS is the democracy that thousands have fought and died to protect ?! GreatGazoo Mar 2016 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author cyberpj Mar 2016 #10
^^^^^^ What you said! ^^^^^^ southerncrone Mar 2016 #58
Caucuses are stupid. moondust Mar 2016 #12
The whole notion of Primaries is outmoded. Unfortunately, it totally serves the plutocracy. truedelphi Mar 2016 #112
There has to be a way moondust Mar 2016 #115
how does that favor one candidate over another? eom yawnmaster Mar 2016 #13
It doesn't favor one over the other, imo tazkcmo Mar 2016 #44
As a city person, I have to say walking four blocks sounds easy- and the opposite of suppression. bettyellen Mar 2016 #14
It was dark and there was lots of traffic Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #18
I'm thinking disabled people here would also need to make special arrangements- when I campaign bettyellen Mar 2016 #20
A lot of disabled people vote absentee ballots, though some insist on voting in person. hedda_foil Mar 2016 #40
Oh yeah, we would do absentee ballots too! Tks for the reminder. Point is campaigns plan for this. bettyellen Mar 2016 #42
Which brings up a good point: Mister Ed Mar 2016 #96
Yeah, I am not a fan of the caucus system myself, that is a good point. bettyellen Mar 2016 #107
Cities have sidewalks. Around here, we have ditches filled with water. jeff47 Mar 2016 #19
That stinks! I cannot such a petroleum based lifestyle! bettyellen Mar 2016 #29
Hence my Chevy Volt jeff47 Mar 2016 #35
Well, you'd never get off the first block before the polls closes going door to door around here! bettyellen Mar 2016 #36
No sidewalks where I live either. You'd be walking on the road in the dark Arazi Mar 2016 #24
Wow- it is such an alien concept to drive everywhere to me! Even when we drive places.... bettyellen Mar 2016 #28
Yup, metropolitan suburb here Arazi Mar 2016 #32
Don't people organize carpools and van pools? Maybe they need more! bettyellen Mar 2016 #55
I'm with Bernie and yes, it's a standard question on our phone banking Arazi Mar 2016 #63
Interesting that doesn't match the "script" some phone bankers quoted the other day. Not at all. bettyellen Mar 2016 #64
I saw that OP about Dot Arazi Mar 2016 #71
On election day, the calls are the quickest you will ever make. Usually you're whittled down to bettyellen Mar 2016 #73
This is Minnesota, Think cold and icy. kracer20 Mar 2016 #50
I'm surprised four blocks would be unmanageable. How do kids get around? bettyellen Mar 2016 #54
I think my walk was about 4 blocks Mnpaul Mar 2016 #74
30 minutes in line to park, then another 15 minute walk in my Twin City suburb SomeGuyInEagan Mar 2016 #91
No suppression in downtown St Paul Generic Brad Mar 2016 #15
Get rid of those caucuses!!! kerry-is-my-prez Mar 2016 #16
Report what you saw to 1-800-OUR-VOTE Election Protection PADemD Mar 2016 #17
Nice to see in this UglyGreed Mar 2016 #21
It's performance art. Maedhros Mar 2016 #22
One primary day for the entire country-make it a national holiday and let people vote. jalan48 Mar 2016 #23
But poor people will still be forced to work on a "national holiday". I think 4-5 day voting period bettyellen Mar 2016 #38
Yes-even better. Maybe over the weekend. jalan48 Mar 2016 #41
Yes- I think 4-5 days and a few with long hours should be the minimum. bettyellen Mar 2016 #47
I got an even better one nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #56
Agreed. Felons should be allowed once released too. Never thought about prisoners, but they bettyellen Mar 2016 #59
Spoiled you bring it in nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #62
This message was self-deleted by its author DUbeornot2be Mar 2016 #76
I also voted at an insanely crowded caucus in Minnesota Chichiri Mar 2016 #25
mother of god thats atrocious. retrowire Mar 2016 #26
How is this voter suppression? wildeyed Mar 2016 #27
It was not exactly easy to get to the caucus site Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #31
You have to convince the local party to do better, sounds like they need more volunteers too. bettyellen Mar 2016 #37
Caucuses are voter suppression. wildeyed Mar 2016 #39
No amount of volunteers could have prevented that traffic jam Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #48
I blame you for making horrible accusations wildeyed Mar 2016 #60
I am speaking the truth about what I saw Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #61
It's not suppression without proof. wildeyed Mar 2016 #69
I am not blaming the volunteers, I am blaming the party leadership Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #70
Failed is NOT the same as suppression. wildeyed Mar 2016 #72
The latest in labor-saving election technology AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #30
My SW Minneapolis caucus was well run. wouldsman Mar 2016 #33
Why a trash can? Why no one guarding? JaneyVee Mar 2016 #34
they are deep enough that they should not overflow- and out where everyone working can see them. bettyellen Mar 2016 #45
Nope, I am not in Mexico City nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #46
It's fucked up. Aerows Mar 2016 #52
Why I call this pretend democracy nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #57
Remember the Donna Frye mayoral election? WHEN CRABS ROAR Mar 2016 #81
Speaking off, and I voted for her nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #82
Does the Democratic Party just want to fucking lose? Aerows Mar 2016 #49
I got a robo call telling me to go to the wrong place azurnoir Mar 2016 #51
Caucuses need to be eliminated Dem2 Mar 2016 #53
It's really disgusting. SoapBox Mar 2016 #65
Switch to a primary. Agschmid Mar 2016 #66
What kind of antiquated system are we living under?!!! WishfulThinker Mar 2016 #68
Please send this to zentrum Mar 2016 #75
Welcome to the new Democratic party, sponsored by Hillary and friends PoliticalMalcontent Mar 2016 #77
We are gettting a good look at our broken voting system monicaangela Mar 2016 #78
A trash can? That's unbelievable. Just wow. AgadorSparticus Mar 2016 #79
Our caucus was crowded also at first. Many came to vote and jwirr Mar 2016 #80
It seemed to go pretty well at my caucus. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2016 #83
Yet another reason caucuses should go the way of the dodo mythology Mar 2016 #84
Predatory politicians LOVE predatory lenders and predatory party apparatchiks. nt mhatrw Mar 2016 #85
My best? I'd volunteer to help next time, and don't take no for an answer. mahina Mar 2016 #86
That would make a fine LTTE & you should seriously consider sending it! CrispyQ Mar 2016 #87
My advice to the OP would be to write the LTTE, but leave out Mister Ed Mar 2016 #98
I agree, the Minnesota results should be thrown out and none of their delegates counted. stevenleser Mar 2016 #89
Jesus! AlbertCat Mar 2016 #92
What?! This is outrageous. JudyM Mar 2016 #94
but all that matters a photo ID to the GOP. pansypoo53219 Mar 2016 #97
That shouldn't have happened Babel_17 Mar 2016 #99
Why does America do this? Bad Dog Mar 2016 #100
My caucus was packed out. They expected 60 and got 500 BainsBane Mar 2016 #102
It is not about which candidate won, this process disenfranchises a lot of people Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #110
Firstly, you didn't participate in an election Tuesday night BainsBane Mar 2016 #118
Stop misrepresenting my words Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #119
You complained about not verifying registration BainsBane Mar 2016 #120
You are lying about my position Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #122
Wow... thats disgusting! Adding that to the list Bubzer Mar 2016 #104
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Mar 2016 #105
A Minnesota State Rep is planning to introduce a bill for primaries. Eric J in MN Mar 2016 #109
Wow, something strange is happening, this is the second time I have agreed with Garofolo recently Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #111
It was bad planning by whoever is running your senate district. dflprincess Mar 2016 #116
That's how it was when I caucused in 2008 in MN IronLionZion Mar 2016 #117
TRASH CAN ... Jopin Klobe Mar 2016 #121
Well Sanders Won MN By A Few Points So Were Clinton Voters Suppressed? Corey_Baker08 Mar 2016 #123
Both Clinton and Bernie votes were suppressed Bjorn Against Mar 2016 #124
Just to clear up a few things dflprincess Mar 2016 #125

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
1. I'm not sure where you are but my daughter has been texting me the same about her caucus.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:12 PM
Mar 2016

They weren't organized, too many people, chaos and craziness.

It's her first caucus experience.

inchhigh

(384 posts)
93. Felt great to see the crowd
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:28 PM
Mar 2016

I was in Winona and it was busy but not terrible. Its been worse when both parties were together at the vo-tech. The concourse was noisy but no more chaotic than usual. I didnt make it up to the classrooms but most WSU students were at the tables rivht next to mine.

Jeb Bartlet

(141 posts)
113. I tried to get there
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:34 PM
Mar 2016

and spent a half hour in the car on Hwy 110 just trying to get to the school. I left after spending 20 minutes trying to find some place to park.

The caucus system is a complete failure, MN DFL should be ashamed. Combining caucus locations was incredibly stupid, not doing a simple primary is even more stupid. Get rid of this useless caucus system and go to a simple primary. MN Is supposed to be better than that.

Not going to be donating to the MN DFL this year nor to the DNC. They are both useless.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
114. No the problem is not enough people are voting because the caucuses are designed to disenfranchise
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:41 PM
Mar 2016

The problem is not that too many people showed up, the problem is that they packed too many people into each caucus location.

You should know that when it is difficult to vote less people vote. If there had been an actual primary far more people would have been able to participate.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
2. I don't care who you support we should ALL be against disenfranchisement
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:13 PM
Mar 2016

and cheating



The caucuses are a mess and need to be eliminated. Replace them with mail in ballots and on site voting using paper ballots for verification

I am bummed reading your account. MN is a strong Bernie state and I'm a supporter but regardless, I think its wrong on every level

potone

(1,701 posts)
3. Why the hell can't we organize elections properly in this country?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:14 PM
Mar 2016

It's not as if we haven't had these problems over and over again. I hope that you will lodge a formal protest.

Response to potone (Reply #3)

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
43. Because we are an Oligarchy. Voting is largely kabuki in some areas.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:12 PM
Mar 2016

The 1% will not go quietly into the night...

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
88. Because stupid people in certain states
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:25 PM
Mar 2016

continue to defend and protect a deeply flawed and hideously disorganized caucus process with words like "quirky" and "traditional", and no one in either party has the balls to tell them to get with the times.

Jopin Klobe

(779 posts)
90. "Why the hell can't we organize elections properly in this country?" ...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:42 PM
Mar 2016

... because the Power Structure couldn't "fix" them then ...

Response to GreatGazoo (Reply #8)

moondust

(19,954 posts)
12. Caucuses are stupid.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:26 PM
Mar 2016

Eliminate them and just set up all-day primary voting so everybody who wants to will have an opportunity to vote without all the obstacles.

The U.S. electoral system has been gamed to death by these two self-serving parties. Stick a fork in it.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
112. The whole notion of Primaries is outmoded. Unfortunately, it totally serves the plutocracy.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:29 PM
Mar 2016

So it will have to be a revolution of galvanized middle and lower incomed folks who set about taking the system apart.

Don't know how we would do it, but do it we must.

moondust

(19,954 posts)
115. There has to be a way
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:45 PM
Mar 2016

to winnow the field of candidates. Otherwise you'll have thousands of "people who wanna be President" throwing their hats in the ring. How do you separate the reasonably serious candidates from the Deez Nuts of the world and keep winnowing until eventually you wind up with only a few on the GE ballot?

Some other countries that have short, low-budget campaigns have apparently figured out ways of doing this but I'm not familiar with them.

tazkcmo

(7,298 posts)
44. It doesn't favor one over the other, imo
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:13 PM
Mar 2016

But it does suppress the vote and I hope we can agree that's a bad thing. It's even worse if it's intentional. In fact, I believe it's criminal. I have no reason to believe this was an intentional effort at suppression or just gross incompetence but either way, hell should be raised and resignations submitted.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
14. As a city person, I have to say walking four blocks sounds easy- and the opposite of suppression.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:29 PM
Mar 2016

And yeah, I have seen ballots collected in trash cans before. I love paper ballots! Honestly it is interesting to see how people can have a completely different take on the same situation.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
18. It was dark and there was lots of traffic
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:32 PM
Mar 2016

Not all the roads had sidewalks, it was a dangerous situation. A person who was physically disabled would be unable to vote.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
20. I'm thinking disabled people here would also need to make special arrangements- when I campaign
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:39 PM
Mar 2016

locally we make lists of people who need to be driven to the polls, disabled and otherwise, and we have volunteers do it. We also drove people to the next city for court orders to vote because we knew they would rip our registrations out of the books (that is some real suppression!)and there would be copies at the county. I got about 8-9 people with cars to volunteer to do those things when I worked my ward. It's GOTV 101, most organized campaigns do these things. I am really at a loss.

I can't imagine how much harder that is in Manhattan, but have heard they make similar arrangements there.

hedda_foil

(16,370 posts)
40. A lot of disabled people vote absentee ballots, though some insist on voting in person.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:08 PM
Mar 2016

In regular elections, accommodations are made for people with disabilities by law.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
42. Oh yeah, we would do absentee ballots too! Tks for the reminder. Point is campaigns plan for this.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:12 PM
Mar 2016

Mister Ed

(5,921 posts)
96. Which brings up a good point:
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:45 PM
Mar 2016

Our Minnesota caucus system seems to make no provision for absentee voting. If you don't show up, you can't vote. An absentee can still do other things, like submit party platform proposals, but can't vote.

So, a disabled person really is at a disadvantage. I'd say the Minnesota DFL really needs to address that, especially since support of disadvantaged minorities is a core party principle.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
19. Cities have sidewalks. Around here, we have ditches filled with water.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:38 PM
Mar 2016

No way in hell I'd walk 4 blocks at night on the main road near my house. I'd be dead.

(I'm not in MN, but the same phenomenon happens all over the place)

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
35. Hence my Chevy Volt
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:59 PM
Mar 2016

What gas?

Also, if I walked those 4 blocks, I'd go from houses to houses. To get to anything commercial you have to go further.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
36. Well, you'd never get off the first block before the polls closes going door to door around here!
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:03 PM
Mar 2016

Too many doors! You have to start that many days before the election!

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
24. No sidewalks where I live either. You'd be walking on the road in the dark
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:46 PM
Mar 2016

theres a LOT of people who'd simply drive home

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
28. Wow- it is such an alien concept to drive everywhere to me! Even when we drive places....
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:51 PM
Mar 2016

a few block walk is expected (after paying for parking!!)- sometimes you take a shuttle bus or train the rest of the way!

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
32. Yup, metropolitan suburb here
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:57 PM
Mar 2016

I vote 5 miles away from my house. No way could anyone walk it. Disabled definitely need rides

(WI so cold weather is also a factor)

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
63. I'm with Bernie and yes, it's a standard question on our phone banking
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:27 PM
Mar 2016

"Do you need a ride?"

Actually, for the Sanders campaign even if the person says they're for HRC, we're to make a note of it and pick them up anyway. We're nice like that .....

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
64. Interesting that doesn't match the "script" some phone bankers quoted the other day. Not at all.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:29 PM
Mar 2016

That said, it is very kind of you! Considering here at DU it gets you thrown under a bus for being kind to Hillary.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
71. I saw that OP about Dot
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:40 PM
Mar 2016

it simply doesn't match my experience.

I've phone banked for Tammy Duckworth, Bill Foster, and Obama. I think Obama is incredible and support him 100%.

Hubdialer.com is easily accessible. It's the software Sanders is using. You can find the script yourself

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
73. On election day, the calls are the quickest you will ever make. Usually you're whittled down to
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:44 PM
Mar 2016

supporters only and asking if they voted already. If not, you tell them how much longer they have and ask them if they know where they are going. At least that is how it has been every time I did election day calls. You should have 95% of the other peoples supporters off your list already, which is why I think this complaint is bullshit. The reporter was *shocked* the caller said thanks and good night?!?!? LOL. Nope. Ginned up.

kracer20

(199 posts)
50. This is Minnesota, Think cold and icy.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:16 PM
Mar 2016

Four blocks is a long way for those that are used to taking a car everywhere they go, this is just the way of life in the cold climate. I really don't understand why you would be arguing the point of the OP.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
54. I'm surprised four blocks would be unmanageable. How do kids get around?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:21 PM
Mar 2016

Anyway, if that is the case, you need to organize a lot more car pools than we do in the city. It ain;t easy, but you work with what you got, not with what you wish you had.

Mnpaul

(3,655 posts)
74. I think my walk was about 4 blocks
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:54 PM
Mar 2016

One in the parking lot and 3 making my way through the school. They always seem to pick the rooms farthest from the entrance. I'm spoiled from the trip to my polling place, which is one block from my house.

SomeGuyInEagan

(1,515 posts)
91. 30 minutes in line to park, then another 15 minute walk in my Twin City suburb
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:47 PM
Mar 2016

And I walk *very* fast, passing several others.

They advised being there at 6:30 for the 7:00 start and I was in line to part for that entire time. I left around 7:45 and the line of cars to get in was as long as when I was sitting in it. MPR was telling people that both parties had announced that voting was more important than an 8 p.m. deadline and encouraged people not to give up the wait.

Seriously ... this is Minnesota. We take voting VERY seriously. We remember the 2008 race between Obama and Clinton (Edwards has just dropped out by that time). Apparently the only ones surprised by the number of people showing up seems to have been the DFL party leaders.

(Side note - volunteers working and local politicians there to help direct people were fantastic - busy and overburdened - but fantastic).

Generic Brad

(14,272 posts)
15. No suppression in downtown St Paul
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:29 PM
Mar 2016

The lines were long but they moved super fast. I arrived at 6:40 PM and the line my family and I was in snaked two city blocks. But, like I said, it went fast. We cast our vote at 7:10 PM and left. As we were departing a DFL spokesperson announced that turn out was the highest in precinct history and that everyone in line would be able to cast a vote.

It was energized and lively. Everyone was polite and patient. Clearly downtown St Paul was not suppressed with record turnout.

It was my wife's first caucus experience (she was naturalized only last year) and she loved it. We saw tons of our neighbors and chatted with friends and acquaintances while in line.

Best of luck to the Clinton and Sanders camps. May the best candidate win!

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
22. It's performance art.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:44 PM
Mar 2016

They are using metaphor to express how the Democratic Party feels about progressives.

jalan48

(13,834 posts)
23. One primary day for the entire country-make it a national holiday and let people vote.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:45 PM
Mar 2016

No caucuses, no super delegates just one person, one vote.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
38. But poor people will still be forced to work on a "national holiday". I think 4-5 day voting period
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:06 PM
Mar 2016

would be awesome.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
56. I got an even better one
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:22 PM
Mar 2016

when you turn 18, you automatically get registered to vote, if eligible.

Prisoners get a vote. That will solve THAT voter supresion, and all felons get the vote when they leave prson... like OECD economies do. Hey they are counted for the census (It is called prison gerrymandering), And we all get to vote by mail with ballots sent to us 1 month in advance, (Makes this cheaper and creates a paper trail), and we shorten all elections to 6 months, and every one of them is publicly funded. Oh and I would still keep a FEW precincts open for the inneviatable spoiled ballot, or lost ballot in the US Mail. They lose some.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
59. Agreed. Felons should be allowed once released too. Never thought about prisoners, but they
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:24 PM
Mar 2016

should not be counted in district populations if they cannot vote.

Interesting- How do they know a vote has been spoiled or lost?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
62. Spoiled you bring it in
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:26 PM
Mar 2016

lost, well, that would be a problem to work on. They could be numbered, or scanned before you send them out, as sent. And the USPS does tracking. So the USPS could track all of them on the way out and on the way in.

Response to jalan48 (Reply #41)

Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
25. I also voted at an insanely crowded caucus in Minnesota
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:46 PM
Mar 2016

...and I can tell you that no one, but no one, turned around and left because of the crowd. I don't know how many people might have driven away because of lack of parking, but even after waiting in line an hour and a half, Bernie and Hillary fans alike were in good spirits and couldn't wait to vote.

I do think the DFL needs to do things better next time, but this wasn't voter suppression.

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
26. mother of god thats atrocious.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:50 PM
Mar 2016

I'm so happy I live in a primary state now. That said, write those letters, and make some noise on this. It's crazy.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
31. It was not exactly easy to get to the caucus site
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:55 PM
Mar 2016

Creating a chaotic situation that makes it difficult for people to get to the caucus is voter suppression.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
39. Caucuses are voter suppression.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:07 PM
Mar 2016

Period. Lobby your state party to stop doing them.

Maybe the turnout was just a bunch higher than anticipated. Why do you think this was suppression? Was it aimed at one candidates supporters, particularly? It's a primary. If there was a pattern of confusion ONLY in areas where only one candidate's supporters caucused, and you could prove a pattern, and it looked like a particular official was pulling strings to do it on purpose, then maybe you could make that accusation. But I dunno..... Just sounds like either incompetence or a much higher than expected turnout. You should volunteer next time if you have concerns. Maybe they didn't have enough and that is why things got crazy. In my experience, people like to complain about how things are run, but don't much care to actually do the work to fix it

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
48. No amount of volunteers could have prevented that traffic jam
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:16 PM
Mar 2016

It is not my fault that the party uses an archaic caucus system that they can not even run in an organized fashion.

You may want to blame me personally but I did not create this system and I have no power to unilaterally change the rules. This is the fault of the party leadership. Period.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
60. I blame you for making horrible accusations
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:24 PM
Mar 2016

with not proof. You are accusing party leadership of a felony. Complain about the disorganization if you must, but accusing people of VOTER SUPPRESSION!!!!11! with no proof is a nasty business.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
61. I am speaking the truth about what I saw
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:26 PM
Mar 2016

If you don't like it too bad, I am not going to shut up about what I feel about the party leadership.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
69. It's not suppression without proof.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:33 PM
Mar 2016

It's incompetence or a lack of volunteers. You want to complain, get out and help next time. Go to the planning meetings. Stop expecting everyone else to do for you all the time and then bitching when you don't like the way it is being done. These people are nearly all volunteer. People NOT GETTING PAID to facilitate your voting experience. You know that, right?

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
70. I am not blaming the volunteers, I am blaming the party leadership
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:36 PM
Mar 2016

The party leadership is paid and they are the ones who failed, not the volunteers.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
72. Failed is NOT the same as suppression.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:42 PM
Mar 2016

You accused them of criminal behavior. And if you think they failed, then get your butt to a planning meeting next time snd do better. The entire process is harder than you think.

 

AgerolanAmerican

(1,000 posts)
30. The latest in labor-saving election technology
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:54 PM
Mar 2016

Why take the extra step of actually having to abscond with and discard the ballots personally when you can just get the voter to dump it in the trash for you?

wouldsman

(94 posts)
33. My SW Minneapolis caucus was well run.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:57 PM
Mar 2016

That being said- voter suppression happens where ever they can get away with it. Just because one caucus is well run doesn't mean they all are.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
45. they are deep enough that they should not overflow- and out where everyone working can see them.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:13 PM
Mar 2016

They had them a few times in my town, I prefer them to the machines, which are easier to tamper with.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
46. Nope, I am not in Mexico City
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:14 PM
Mar 2016

I swear, these multiple reports from caucus states are starting to remind me of Mexico,

Next I know they will buss in supporters of one candidate over the other and get them to vote for a torta and a coke. (which did happen and has happened and reports of this are still in Mexican media)

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
52. It's fucked up.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:19 PM
Mar 2016

There was this type of shit going on in Iowa, there weren't enough voter registration forms, there was chaos over ballots.

This does not resemble Democracy in the damn slightest.

If you win a political race, by all means, I will graciously accept you as a representative of my city, state, and the highest office, the White House.

If you win a political race because of blatant vote tampering, you can kiss my ass.

It is so disappointing.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
57. Why I call this pretend democracy
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:23 PM
Mar 2016

or zombie democracy, and I just vote to keep in practice. I don't expect it to really count.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
49. Does the Democratic Party just want to fucking lose?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:16 PM
Mar 2016

There has been more horseshit of not enough voter registration forms, not enough ballots and all kinds of strange shit going on during this primary.

I'm sorry - Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action.

I can't fucking believe our own party is doing this shit now. This should piss off both Sanders and Clinton voters alike.

Excuse my language but this sort of blatant vote tampering angers me to the nth degree.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
51. I got a robo call telling me to go to the wrong place
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:18 PM
Mar 2016

it claimed the location was peer my address except I already knew where to go

Dem2

(8,166 posts)
53. Caucuses need to be eliminated
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:19 PM
Mar 2016

Seems these stories are far too common, what a horrible experience for you.

WishfulThinker

(21 posts)
68. What kind of antiquated system are we living under?!!!
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:32 PM
Mar 2016

The caucus system is not reliable, viable, or democratic. Where is the accountability and transparency? One person-one vote? No matter what Americans think- WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY! AND THE DNC DOES NOT REPRESENT PROGRESSIVES! I am utterly stunned by your experience! But then again, nothing surprises me any more...when so many people are supporting Donald Drumph!

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
75. Please send this to
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:58 PM
Mar 2016

….your local reporters, and TV people.

Push this a little. This is stealing Democracy right out from under us.

The State of Paul Wellstone is better than this. In fact, maybe call Keith Ellis's office and I guess even Franken's.

77. Welcome to the new Democratic party, sponsored by Hillary and friends
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:03 AM
Mar 2016

If this isn't a clear indication of where the party is going I don't know what is.

I will not support a party that stoops to such tactics. When has voter suppression ever been a hallmark of the DNC?

We need party leadership with strong ethics. Please, people. Save the DNC from itself. If you're upset, please contact party leaders. Perhaps that idea deserves a post all it's own.

monicaangela

(1,508 posts)
78. We are gettting a good look at our broken voting system
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:03 AM
Mar 2016

Where is the UN? Where is Jimmy Carter? Why isn't anybody monitoring our elections the way we feel we have to monitor the elections of others to make sure they are fair. Where is Greg Palast? We need him now.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
80. Our caucus was crowded also at first. Many came to vote and
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:13 AM
Mar 2016

then left. I think a lot of the problem is that they did not pay any attention when some of us told them that there were going to a lot more voters than they expected. Finally when the line for registration kept growing they added another table.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,539 posts)
83. It seemed to go pretty well at my caucus.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:31 AM
Mar 2016

I'm in district 62, and my caucus was held at Lyndale School in south Minneapolis. Parking was a bit of a challenge but I made it there a little early (before 6:30) and found a spot that wasn't too far away. A lot of people were on foot (there are sidewalks and street lights), and the line to get into the school was a couple of blocks long. But once they opened the doors at 6:30 everything moved pretty fast. Whoever was in charge had organized it well, and we were quickly directed into the rooms for our precincts. I signed in (the sign-in table was staffed by four people), got a ballot, put it in a box (it wasn't a waste basket and there were a lot of people managing things so I don't think anything will happen to them). It looked like a lot of people were staying for the agenda, I had to leave for another appointment after voting. The whole process (driving there, parking, waiting in line and voting) took about a half-hour so it went better than I expected.

My guess is that each district or group of precincts handles the event, and whether it's organized or managed fairly depends on the people who are there and not the state DFL. That's not to say I'd trust the state party as far as I'd throw a grand piano, but the process I saw seemed to be OK. And I was very pleased at the huge turnout.

mahina

(17,592 posts)
86. My best? I'd volunteer to help next time, and don't take no for an answer.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:44 AM
Mar 2016

They really need worker bees like us to do the tasks.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt as state parties are often underfunded and manned by kupuna (older folks).

We're stepping up. What's the worst that could happen- our suspicions could be confirmed.

CrispyQ

(36,411 posts)
87. That would make a fine LTTE & you should seriously consider sending it!
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:32 AM
Mar 2016

Also send a copy to the DFLP. The party needs to hear about shit like this.

Mister Ed

(5,921 posts)
98. My advice to the OP would be to write the LTTE, but leave out
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 05:03 PM
Mar 2016

the accusation of intentional voter suppression on the part of the Democratic party. I'm simply not seeing any evidence of that. I'm only seeing evidence of inadequate planning and procedures, which may especially present obstacles to voters with disabilities. That's plenty bad in itself, and needs to be addressed.

If there were any evidence of intentional voter suppression, I would want it broadcast far and wide. But why publish unfounded accusations of malfeasance that would only serve to sour the public on the Democratic Party?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
89. I agree, the Minnesota results should be thrown out and none of their delegates counted.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:26 PM
Mar 2016


of course I am joking. But still...

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
92. Jesus!
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:03 PM
Mar 2016

Were y'all voting for prom queen?

I cannot understand how such a thing happens....except for APATHY.

Apathy comes from 2 things:
1) people sincerely feel their reps don't rep them and so what does it matter; they have no say

2) The "Hillary is inevitable"/"Sanders can't win" meme so why waste time organizing a viable caucus.

It's just a ritual.... that results in the same old thing and never advances anything.Meh.

BainsBane

(53,010 posts)
102. My caucus was packed out. They expected 60 and got 500
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 05:40 PM
Mar 2016

way more than previous turnouts. The votes were 3 to 1 in favor of Sanders. I fail to see how that comprises voter suppression. Instead, I took it as a sign that Bernie's revolution is alive and well in Minneapolis.

You are angry that the party didn't divine in advance that turnout in MN would differ from the rest of the nation in that it exceeded 2008 levels.

As for not verifying names, it's a party caucus, not an election run by the Secretary of State. Your complaint about lack of verification also contradicts completely your claim to be concerned about voter suppression. You are suggesting that they allowed too many people to vote, while you seem to think should not have been. You might object to having lots of people vote, but I don't know why since your candidate was the overwhelming favorite.

That high turnout will also increase precinct and district delegate allocation in the upcoming election, which I would think should make you happy.

My candidate was blown out in my district, but I am still glad lots of people participated in the democratic process. I happen to care that the voice of the people is heard, even if those voices don't agree with my own. I worked my ass off for Clinton in MN, and I couldn't help be disappointed that she didn't do better here, but I will NEVER argue against increased participation in order to advance any candidate. Democracy matters far more.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
110. It is not about which candidate won, this process disenfranchises a lot of people
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:25 PM
Mar 2016

I am certainly not arguing against increased participation, I don't even know where you would get that idea. I am upset because I don't feel the current process accommodates voters, it was very difficult to vote last night and I think voting needs to be made a whole lot easier.

As for verification, simple verification such as what happens at the polls in the General Elections is needed to prevent ballot stuffing. I am not suggesting anything burdensome, I am strongly opposed to voter ID for example, but simply signing a form stating that you live at an address and then having the person who witnessed you signing that form give you a ballot is a good verification.

And for the record I am not suggesting any votes were tampered with, but I do not feel there were any real safeguards in place to prevent tampering.

BainsBane

(53,010 posts)
118. Firstly, you didn't participate in an election Tuesday night
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:19 AM
Mar 2016

You were at a party caucus, not an election. That basic point has escaped you.

I get the impression that you are arguing against increased participation because of your twice now repeated concern about lack of verification and ballot stuffing. If they would have checked IDs on everyone, the lines would have been much longer. But the fact is they had no requirement to do so because you didn't vote last night. You didn't participate in an election. You were at a DFL party building event. The DFL takes at their word that people are Democrats, live in the precinct, and will register to vote if they are already not registered. There were many first time caucus goers, the vast majority of them Bernie supporters. Your scenario would have made it harder for them to vote and increased lines and wait time for everyone.

Even if it were an election run by the SoS, checking IDs is illegal in MN. We voted that down in 2008. Verifying registration simply amounts to giving your name, and they look to see if you are on the list. If you aren't, you may show an ID to register, two bills with your address on them, or just have a neighbor vouch for you. That is in fact MN law and why we have traditionally had the highest voter participation rate in the nation (2014 was an exception).

The people who counted the votes in my precinct were Bernie supporters. The guy who ran the caucus was a Bernie supporter. Virtually everyone was a Bernie supporter. Do you see me complaining? No. I trusted them to count the presidential preference ballots. I'm glad my community turned out. I'm glad they were enthusiastic enough about a candidate to participate in a caucus, and I am glad to have had the opportunity to stand in line with some very lovely, perfectly pleasant Bernie supporters who couldn't have been more gracious to me, despite the fact I was kitted out with Clinton gear.

Caucuses are messy, informal affairs. The paper ballot--really only a scrap of paper--is a new development from 2008. Prior to that people expressed their presidential preference (again, not votes) by standing in a section of the room designated for their candidate.

It would have been nice if there were more caucus sites and fewer lines, but my precinct is tiny on a map, just a few blocks of houses. It would be difficult to look at that area and think 500 voters would turn out. Given that MN differed so greatly from the rest of the country in turnout and candidate preferences (for both parties), I can understand how the DFL was not prepared for the orderly assemblies you apparently expected.

MPR interviewed Secretary of State Steven Simon and asked if his office did anything to instruct or correct how the DFL runs its caucuses, and he said no. The events are party affairs and not under the jurisdiction of the Secretary of State. If you had stayed, you might have been elected as a delegate to the state senate district convention, and from there you could go on to the state convention, and you raise your concerns at one or both. In fact, you might have introduced a resolution on Tuesday night to change the process. My precinct proposed making MN exempt from TPP, labeling GMOs, instituting single payer, a special prosecutor for police killings, and on and on. You missed all of those opportunities because you felt put out over having to stand in line.


Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
119. Stop misrepresenting my words
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 09:04 AM
Mar 2016

First I know the difference between a caucus and an election, I did not call it an election in my post so nothing "escaped" me.

Second I already told you I am not arguing against increased participation, you are straight up lying when you claim that is my argument.

Third I said explicitly in my last post I oppose voter ID, I never suggested that any verification should include an ID check so you are lying again about my position on that.

If you can not honestly respond to my argument rather than lying and claiming I want decreased participation when I have told you more than once that is not the case then I don't have time for you.

BainsBane

(53,010 posts)
120. You complained about not verifying registration
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:38 PM
Mar 2016

You complained about ballot boxes being stuffed. I did not "lie." You repeated your complaints twice.
I pointed out the inevitable results of what you complained about. That is not a lie. It is pointing to an obvious contradiction in your argument. You were angry at long lines, yet you complained about inadequate verification, when the result would have been to further lengthen the lines and make casting presidential preferences more difficult. You are the one who is not seriously thinking about the implications of what you have argued. Rather than engaging with that, you have chosen to make personal insults against me, which do nothing to counter any of my points. They only reveal your refusal to think seriously about what you are arguing.

You can say you aren't arguing against participation, but when you complain about procedures designed to encourage greater participation, that undermines your argument. Moreover, you chose to promote the idea of the caucuses being illicit, somehow rigged, which undermines confidence in the process and with it voter participation. You do so without bothering to even check on what the DFL rules even are.

You also declined to involve yourself in the caucus proceedings or participate in making any reforms that you believed would have improved the process. If you had stayed to introduce a resolution insisting on verification of registration, other Sanders supporters would have likely explained to you that the impact of such a demand would have been to diminish voter participation. If you had stayed, you could have watched the vote count yourself, with your own eyes, since they do it in full view of anyone standing nearby. I happened to be sitting at the table where they were counting the votes, until I moved since as a Clinton supporter I found it so damn depressing.

You seem to think the caucuses were part of some nefarious plot to deny Sanders his rightful place as president. You ignore the fact that the caucus is run by members of your community, of your own precinct. If your precinct favored Sanders, the conveners, vote counters, and others participating were likely Bernie supporters. If you had actually participated in the caucus proceedings, you would have had the opportunity to vote for the people who carried out those functions. If your precinct was like mine, you would have seen their Bernie buttons. Yet rather than participating in any of that process, you chose to leave and then contribute to an ongoing false narrative that the party and the nation is engaged in a plot to deny Sanders supporters their right to control the election, even as they refuse to any of the work necessary to make that happen.

The party is not an organization that exists to serve you. It is comprised of people in your community willing to put in the work to necessary to run those local precinct caucuses. Next time, rather than complaining that they didn't do what you think they should, try participating. Pitch in and help make it more like you would like it to be. The best place to make your voice heard and start to change things is at your local precinct caucus. You turned your back on that opportunity Tuesday night, but you will have another chance in two years. It is up to you to decide if you care enough to bother.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
122. You are lying about my position
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 02:12 PM
Mar 2016

I never once complained about "procedures designed to increase participation" I complained about procedures designed to decrease participation. Because that is exactly what these caucuses do, they make it difficult to vote and decrease participation. Packing huge numbers of people into a single site may bring a lot of people to that one site, but there would be far more people participating if every precinct had a place where people could go to vote. The caucus system is extremely undemocratic, by advocating for a caucus system you are the one advocating for decreased participation not me.

I have been an activist for the past fifteen years and I have volunteered for many things, but I sure as hell am not going to volunteer for any caucuses as the caucus system is completely undemocratic and I am not going to volunteer my time to prop up an undemocratic system.

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
109. A Minnesota State Rep is planning to introduce a bill for primaries.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:54 PM
Mar 2016

A state representative from Farmington says he will push to move Minnesota to a presidential primary in the upcoming legislative session.

Rep. Pat Garofalo, a Republican, said the current caucus system is "no way to elect a president."

Garofalo's announcement comes as Minnesotans turned out in record numbers for caucuses Tuesday night.

http://kstp.com/politics/representative-garofalo-end-minnesota-caucus-primary/4064385/



I agree with him. People should be able to vote for president at any time of day, instead of everyone voting at once which produces long lines and traffic jams.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
111. Wow, something strange is happening, this is the second time I have agreed with Garofolo recently
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:29 PM
Mar 2016

He also recently introduced a bill to promote electric cars and driverless vehicles. He is normally a terrible politician but he has actually been on the right side of a couple big issues recently.

dflprincess

(28,068 posts)
116. It was bad planning by whoever is running your senate district.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:16 PM
Mar 2016

The person who did the most the work organizing our district did an incredible job. We expected to get slammed and learned a lot of 2008 when we weren't prepared and most of us who were conveners had been given decent training and instructions on what to do should something like running out ballots happened. (We did run out in my precinct but rather than try to track down more, I had brought garishly colored post-its to use in their place - harder to duplicate.)

We also arranged to have tables outside the classroom door for sign in and balloting which moved things along. There were two guys in my precinct who stepped up to help with that and did a great job and let me call the caucus to order on time. It was standing room only in my classroom - though some of the people who didn't have desks were able to sit on a windowsill and a table in the room. I think there were only 3 people who stood for the whole night.

Yes, parking was a problem for some and the halls were crowded but we had it under control.

IronLionZion

(45,380 posts)
117. That's how it was when I caucused in 2008 in MN
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 12:02 AM
Mar 2016

At Kennedy high school in Bloomington. It's nothing new. It's just the low cost option.

Jopin Klobe

(779 posts)
121. TRASH CAN ...
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 01:48 PM
Mar 2016

... THAT'S what the Democratic Power Structure thinks of us ...

... either they go, or I go ...

... and a LOT of other people that I know ...

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
124. Both Clinton and Bernie votes were suppressed
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 02:48 PM
Mar 2016

Given the results it is possible that this undemocratic system benefited my candidate. That does not change my opinion one bit however, I oppose undemocratic voting procedures no matter who they benefit.

dflprincess

(28,068 posts)
125. Just to clear up a few things
Thu Mar 3, 2016, 11:02 PM
Mar 2016

The instructions to conveners were that we not check IDs, we would take people's word that they live in the precinct and will be eligible to vote on election day. I was surprised by the number of people who had IDs out as they approached the registration table (one was set up for each precinct) or were concerned that they weren't registered to vote in the precinct yet.

Also, no one was given a ballot until they had completed the sign in sheet. At the end of the evening we were expected to balance our ballot count with the number of people who had signed in. I never did hear what happened if a precinct didn't balance, I just gave a huge sigh of relief when mine did.

I don't think using a wastebasket to collect the ballots was that big a deal. If the convener got to the precinct and hadn't brought anything to collect the ballots in it was probably just something in the classroom that could be used. In my precinct we used a large envelope - others had coffee cans or cardboard boxes ready. This was a party affair, not a state run election; ballots were counted by hand and the people running each precinct were expected to keep it honest. At least in my district, I have no doubt that that is exactly how it went.



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