2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Myth of Obama's Swing State "firewall" and why it is actually much bigger than that
We keep hearing about Obama's Swing State firewall, and how Romney needs to crumple it to win. But this actually grossly understates Obama's advantage. First, which states are not swing states but are somehow being counted as ones:
1) Pennsylvania
2) Michigan
3) Wisconsin
Yes, these races might be closer than we expect, but simply looking at the RCP polls for the 3 states:
Pennsylvania: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/pa/pennsylvania_romney_vs_obama-1891.html#polls
Michigan: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/mi/michigan_romney_vs_obama-1811.html#polls
Wisconsin: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/wi/wisconsin_romney_vs_obama-1871.html#polls
Romney hasn't lead a poll in any of those states since August, despite the multitude of different polls with different models, and with several being right leaning. If he wins those states, then Obama is getting dominated in a landslide and there is no point in even analyzing the election. It won't be an election, but a coronation for Romney. I don't see any way that happens.
But let's look deeper, and what that does to the map:
Romney is in really, really big trouble. Out of 85 remaining electoral votes, he needs a 63 (he will win with 269). That means he needs 74% of electoral votes from swing states. But it's even worse than that. You read things like this:
Romney is now in dead heats or better with the president in Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida.
That is the sound of Romney losing. Dead heat does no good. He can't afford to only win half of those. I read this morning (can't remember where) that "whoever wins 2 out of 3 of Ohio, Florida and Virginia" is likely to win the election. To quote the VP, what a bunch of malarkey. Romney has to win all 3, and then some.
This is what happens if Romney wins 2 out of 3:
Obama wins Ohio
Obama wins Virginia
Obama wins Florida
Florida wins it, Ohio gets Obama within 5 votes, and VA gets him within 10 votes. And these are scenarios where things go wrong and he loses 2 out of 3 biggest toss up states. Romney would still be behind, and still have to make up a lot of ground. But let's say it goes really, really bad, and Romney wins all 3:
Obviously, at this point. Romney is ahead. But look beyond that:
1) We gave Romney all 3 of the largest swing states, including Ohio, where he is pretty clearly 4-5 points behind right now.
2) He still didn't win!
Florida, Virginia and Ohio actually aren't enough.
In fact, if Obama doesn't lose a state that Kerry or Gore won, then the map becomes this:
And the entire election comes down to Nevada and Colorado, 2 states where Obama has an excellent ground game, and where Obama could very easily win like this:
That's why I take issue with the term "swing state firewall." It's actually a blue state firewall, in that states that are in the bag for Obama far outnumber those that are in the bag for Romney in terms of electoral vote. Romney doesn't need to just do well in swing states, he needs a blow out. Yes, Obama is doing slightly better overall in swing states, but even a "tie" will allow Obama to win easily. Romney needs to sweep the Big 3 and then do more work. This is all assuming he wins North Carolina, of course. The map greatly, greatly favors Obama, he basically just needs to hit a SAC Fly, Romney needs a grand slam. So, when the narrative turns to, "whoever wins this state wins the presidency" or "2 out of 3 of these states" or "Romney and Obama are in a dead heat in swing states", those are all actually favorable to Obama because of his BLUE STATE firewall that has put him way out in front before the swing states come into play.
Just some food for thought and why OFA is still quietly confident. The map is tilted not slightly, but very heavily in their favor.
The Magistrate
(95,253 posts)Welcome to the forum.
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)Maximumnegro
(1,134 posts)People freaking out are insane. It's borderline hilarious.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)goclark
(30,404 posts)What about "Voter Suppression?"
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)I can say for a fact that it has motivated Obama voters here in SE Pennsylvania. Enthusiasm gap closed.
yellowcanine
(35,701 posts)And SCOTUS has just sided with Democrats on early voting in Ohio. So this doubles down on the backlash against voter suppression.
LiberalFighter
(51,054 posts)The consequences do matter. Why it is also smart to be guarded about strategies in campaigns. If they're smart strategies why announce them? If they are stupid strategies why announce them? Or if they are smart strategies and it is new when it is not? (Like Priebus announced last nite)
tweeternik
(255 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Welcome to DU
bemildred
(90,061 posts)JiminyJominy
(340 posts)in all this.
by own calculations Romney has to win 50.5 to 48.5 of all people voting from here on out in Ohio to win. right now he's still polling behind O by 3-4 points there so that provides me some sanity.
RedSpartan
(1,693 posts)Excellent post!
Maximumnegro
(1,134 posts)Very surprised. I though people liked facing reality. But I guess the scare(D) cats are going hang out in the Gallup and Dkos poll threads. Huh. Maybe I'll just keep posting to bump this. I am 100% confident in this president and I ampsyched for this debate.
GallopingGhost
(2,404 posts)exactly what some people here need.
Welcome!
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)Which is a distinct possibility given the direction the race seems to be taking.
Right now, the only thing keeping us from being the underdog is Ohio. But the idea that Ohio and PA give us some kind of unbreachable firewall is self-deluding.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)Rmoney hasn't lead in one Pennsylvania poll, and held a consistent lead in Ohio, and that's after a weak debate showing. Are you a pessimistic person by nature?
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)CO leans R thanks to the debate implosion. NV and IA are very light blue.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)and the polls are all consistently Obama ahead, to varying degrees. The trend is what I look at more than the average, because an outlier will skew the average.
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)Except for stupid stuff like Gravis. NV had been solidly blue but is now getting very tight. Some of that is to be expected this late in October, but the momentum is clearly on Romney's side right now.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)I'm thinking if it's really close, Obama's great GOTV will squeak that one out for us. But aside from that, I'm not seeing the Rmoney momentum there at this point. It looks to me like Obama's lead is holding up, albeit greatly varying leads.
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)Maximumnegro
(1,134 posts)Look it doesn't matter if Obama wins them by 10pts or .5pts, so pointing out colors does not compare to polling history and precedent.Unless you have some serious proof that those two states can to Romney despite the former then that is far from likely. Sorry. Florida, VA, CO, NC yes those are definitely toss ups based on polling throughout campaign and previous elections. NV, IA - especially considering early votes so far, No.
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)Iowa went red in 2004. So did Nevada. These are not states with unbroken 50-year track records of turning blue.
MSMITH33156
(879 posts)but that will change tonight. Romney has the burden of continuing the momentum. It's much easier for Obama to simply not suck and change the narrative from "What was wrong with Obama?" We've had a week and a half of Obama bashing nationwide, and Romney hasn't pulled in front. That's actually a good sign, provided of course that Obama doesn't stink tonight.
I also feel pretty good about Nevada just because it seems that we get our people to the polls there. Obama and Reid both greatly outperformed their poll numbers there, in widely different elections (blue landslide versus red landslide).
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)And I agree with you on Nevada, it's what I was trying to say but you said it better.
Response to Azathoth (Reply #19)
MSMITH33156 This message was self-deleted by its author.
MSMITH33156
(879 posts)First, Pennsylvania is in the bag. When the other campaign is debating whether or not to even spend money in a place, they aren't winning it.
Second, I never said it was an unbreachable firewall. In fact, the specific scenario you are talking about is one where Obama loses FL and VA (which would be a bad day, those stats are roughly tied, even in right-leaning polls), win Ohio and then Romney would still have to clean sweep Colorado, Nevada and Iowa.
You kind of proved my point. The firewall is not coming from the swing states, it is coming from the blue states. To put it another way, in the scenario we are discussing, Romney could win FL, VA, NH, IA, and CO, and still lose the election if Obama wins OH and NV. Romney goes 5 for 7 and still loses. That was the point I was making. It's not a swing state firewall, it's a blue state firewall that is going to require Romney to run a gauntlet.
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)garthranzz
(1,330 posts)by now.
The swing states are VA, NC and FL. Not sure how the numbers run in NV and CO, but Obama should take at least one.
Assuming the machines aren't rigged.
Good analysis.
Sugarcoated
(7,728 posts)The Repukes there are a shambles, and remember how together his ground game has been there. If it's neck-in-neck, he'll win on the ground.
ShadowLiberal
(2,237 posts)Nevada was supposed to be a swing state in 2008, with Obama up by only around 5 points, Obama won it by 12.5 points
Reid was supposed to be a dead man walking against Sharron Angle as undecided voters jumped to her column in the last weeks, polls gave her a 3 to 4 point lead on average, but Reid won by 5 points.
Studies on this phenomenon have concluded that the reason the polls were so off is likely that a large number of Hispanic citizens who are only comfortable answering polls conducted in Spanish, who support democrats by a much heavier margin then regular Hispanics.
RedSpartan
(1,693 posts)Doesn't even need any other swing states. This is what keeps me positive.