2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDear Mrs Clinton: some well-meant advice from an irrevocably lost voter
Dear Mrs, Clinton,
in regards to your hagiography of Mrs Nancy Reagan, you flimsy twitter-pology, and your belated elaboration of excuses cited here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511481109
may I please point out to you why this is not quite going to cut it? Let me first point out a few talking points that irked a bit in their context, and then suggest what your next (and hopefully sincere) attempt at apologising should sound like.
Your elaboration sounded like a very cleaver speech-writer did his or her best to give everything the most positive, Hillary-centered spin. Unfortunately, there is nothing positive about any subject involving Nancy Reagan and AIDS. Furthermore: this is not about you. It's not even about your campaign. So that speech-writer of yours has served you ill, or you ignored his/her best advices. Only you can tell which.
To begin with: the me-too tone. "I lost friends too" - yeah but you still looked at gay people as inherently inferior to yourself until 2013, Hillary. "I lost friends too" gave you as much insight into the plight of the LGBT community as George W. Bush had when, as a Texas politician, he assured a gay assemblyman that "I have gay friends too, so this is nothing against you personally", and then did what he did best: marginalising our community.
No denouncing of the Reagan's role in the AIDS dialogue ("just let those queers die out" , only the admission that "they don't deserve the distinction of having started the conversation". They were just a few of "MANY in power who turned a blind eye". Hey, anyone did it right? (Were you, Little Mrs Me-Too? If so, how about a full admission that you were wrong at the time, and explain what - belatedly - made you change your outdated views?)
We "continue a fight together" - by shifting attention away from the way the LGBT community was effected (which the Clintons did very little to help) to Sub-Saharan Africa (where there are way more infected heteros and way more homophobes, so of course the Clintons are helping).
"This issue matters to me deeply" - hence my praise for the bitch who wanted to let the gay cancer work its genocidal magic. It's a mistake any true ally of the LGBT community could have made, right? I'm sure Bernie made some mistake too. Please someone try to be hurt by something Bernie actually said!
"If not for those advocates, activists, and ordinary, heroic people, we would not be where we are in preventing and treating HIV and AIDS. Their courage and their refusal to accept silence as the status quo saved lives." - So please vote for me: the status quo candidate par excellence! Let me be silent while you do the talking and the work.
"Slowly, too slowly, ignorance was crowded out by information. People who had once closed their eyes opened their hearts." - Except for me me me, because I was busy pandering to Reagan Democrats or whatever those aging DINO homophobes are called these days.
"Silence = Death" - I know that, which is why I acted as a hagiographer for the woman who deadpanned the conversation AIDS victims were desperate to start.
-----
Mrs Clinton, if I may give you some well-meant advice:
This stupid and over-the-top hurtful offense of yours has ripped open all the old wounds. DOMA DADT, "marriage is a sacred bond between man and woman", the whole record of vile bile you have campaigned on until 2013.
Halfheartedly admitting that the Reagan's do not deserve the distinction of starting the conversation on AIDS is hardly going to cut it, nor the "I have gay friends too / lost someone too".
If you want to reassure the LGBT community, you must understand that reputations come by foot, leave by horse, and return on their knees.
What little reputation you had ( "she will get things done" sped away on a derby-winning stallion yesterday. (Or was it a unicorn? Anyway, it's miles over the horizon now, and still accelerating. Because all those old wounds were ripped open too, you see?
If you care to win back your reputation, instead of taking gay votes for granted or writing them off like the millennials, consider this:
Make a speech with the core message: "I was wrong. Now I know better."
Make a speech where you denounce DADT as utterly wrong. Say how you have learned better.
Make a speech where you denounce DOMA. Just say Bill was wrong to sign it and wrong to campaign on it. He threw the gays under the bus; you must throw him under the bus. Gently, if you want to, but you must denounce his 1996 actions. Then you must say how wrong you were to support him in those actions, and what made you see the error of your ways.
Move on to marriage equality. Say why you were wrong to denounce it as recently as 2010, tell us what was your moment of epiphany, or when the first doubts started emerging in your mind, or whatever the process was that reshaped you bigoted mind into something palatable to the modern voter. You can even weave in some great feel-good story about your joy in 2015 when the gays won th right to marry in all of the USA. I mean, according to your twitter account you were overjoyed, so it shouldn't be too difficult for you to remember how momentous that moment was for you personally?
Get that all into one speech. "I was wrong; now I know better."
And then say how dreadfully sorry you were for that offensive remark. Denounce the Reagans. I'm sorry, but you'll have to throw that ugly-hearted gay-hater Nancy under the bus too. Denounce her silence.
And as for yourself, Mrs Clinton: don't just make some noise. Make sense.
Regards,
A very angry Betty.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Somehow, I doubt she ever had your vote to begin with or ever could get it.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Do you still think she is a homophobe?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1474722
SCantiGOP
(14,087 posts)You address her as Senator or Secretary.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Just an insinuation that since OP was never a truly loyal subject of Her Majesty, nothing she wrote is worth addressing?
mythology
(9,527 posts)Glass houses and all.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)You were being dismissive on flimsy grounds so I called you out on it. Sorry if that hurts your feelings or makes you feel "insulted."
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)us a reason to vote for her. So far -nothing.
I am not going to vote FOR Hillary either, I will vote against the GOP nominee.
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)reason in and of itself. Its all the reason they need so they looked no further. Since they only have that and a resume, they simply cannot convince anyone on the issues.
radiclib
(1,811 posts)If you are going to vote against the GOP nominee anyway, Hillary does NOT have to earn your vote or give you a reason to vote for her. Don't think she doesn't know this. It is pure DLC strategy.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)I get very involved before elections, make calls, do what I can.
I will not be doing any of that for her. I'll put my energy into local seats (calling for the dem trying to beat McCain).
If the nominee is Bernie - I will be calling, knocking on doors, doing all that I can to get his word out.
But in the end I will not for the gop.
Logical
(22,457 posts)There was a time when you only had 35 posts. Were your posts worth less then?
Dismissing someone because of the number of posts they have reveals more about you than it does about me.
Now that I have 36 posts, am I worthy yet?
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)what the problem was, you had nothing to say about the content. After reading that, your only comment was the poster was never someone on HRC's side even though they said so. That's why you're looked at with suspicion for the good or bad of it. How about a comment on the content? That will help.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)You might want to take a look at the replies to my single opinion.
I was replied to by several posters around here who acted far more thuggish than I. You might want to take a look in the mirror.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
Mother Of Four
(1,718 posts)I'm pretty sure no one was saying you're a "low count thug", in fact I'm pretty sure you were getting an explanation of WHY some react they way they do to low post counts.
You didn't respond to the content, you only attacked one small part of the premise of a post. One that took the OP quite a while to type out that they put some serious thought into. It would really serve you well to comment on that, even if you don't agree, instead of basically calling them a liar.
Does that make any better sense as to why you got the reaction you did?
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)It was in the topic of the post, let me refresh your memory ... "Dear Mrs Clinton: some well-meant advice from an irrevocably lost voter"
It's my experience when someone declares with such drama that they now just can't bring themselves to vote for someone ... they never intended to vote for that person, ever.
Mother Of Four
(1,718 posts)Wow...just wow.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)About your count. look in your own mirror
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)I guess all you have left are insults. How unexpected.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)I can't believe you just posted that. So disappointed. And sometimes the bullies have been here forever.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)It was not him. It was informational as you well know. Sad.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Please have a good day.
sarge43
(29,094 posts)yet you're able to read another member's mind.
Mad skills you have there.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)all this false outrage from people who wouldn't vote for Hillary no matter what
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I wondered (for a brief moment) how I missed putting you on my IL. Then, I saw your post count, and realized I likely haven't seen any of your other pro-Hi11ary posts.
No problem: better late than never, etc.
Feeling the BERN!!!
#NotMeUs
CaliforniaPeggy
(151,298 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)* virtual hug *
azretired
(31 posts)Thank you for this post. I grow so weary of hearing of her latest conversion to whatever is now popular truth.
Arazi
(6,879 posts)BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Is there anybody who would believe it, who would think that it wasn't driven by the political calculation as with virtually every other thing she does?
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Metric System
(6,048 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)But thanks for trying to derail the thread.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)But never ever making it about himself.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)not know it that you speak for the entire gay community.
ejbr
(5,865 posts)ibegurpard
(16,805 posts)"We" had heard of him LONG before that. Speak for yourself.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)TOLD STATUS:
{ }NOT TOLD
{x} TOLD
{x} FUCKING TOLD
{x} CASH4TOLD.COM
{x} KNIGHTS OF THE TOLD REPUBLIC
{x} STONE TOLD STEVE AUSTIN
{x} CURE FOR THE COMMON TOLD
{x} TEXAS TOLDEM
{x} NO COUNTRY FOR TOLD MEN
{x} 24 CARAT TOLD
{x} TOLD SPICE
{x} TOLD STONE CREAMERY
{x} BABY ITS TOLD OUTSIDE
{x} TOLD YELLER
{x} THE TOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL
{x} CANT TEACH A TOLD DOG NEW TRICKS
{x} TOLD MACDONALD HAD A FARM
{x} THE TOLD MAN AND THE SEA
{x} TOLD MEDAL WINNER AT THE OLYMPICS
{x} ALL OF THE ABOVE
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)And followed his career from that time forward. I'm sure millions more learned his name when they studied the list of courageous Congress persons who voted No on DOMA, it was not that long a list. Not everyone is like you, not paying attention, not taking part.
And of course LGBT and our allies in Vermont and neighboring States sure as hell knew Bernie.
My LGBT friends are very politically active and very informed people for the most part. The majority are for Bernie, and one of them is extremely active in the Bernie campaign in an upcoming very important State. She really hated those Reagan comments because like me, she was an activist back then as well.....
Laughing Mirror
(4,185 posts)Well I'm the LGBT community and the name Hillary means shit to me.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Her support for DADT, and DOMA. But recently it is her praise of the Reagans that impressed me most
Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #49)
Matt_R This message was self-deleted by its author.
Matt_R
(456 posts)The reagans were a horrible couple that torpedoed our country into the deepest right wing hole that we are still trying to dig ourselves out of.
elljay
(1,178 posts)Just because you were not familiar with the him doesn't mean the rest of us weren't.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)community. At least he supported us before Her Majesty that waited until the Supremes said OK. We, indeed.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I never thought a 24 year old old wound could be ripped open so completely. You never forget the look on an aunts face when she tells you her husband, your uncle has AIDS and he will die soon. You don't forget how it looks when there is an empty space next to your aunt when he is too ill to attend family functions and worse when he has passed.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Love, Betty
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)For me I was an adult when I went to a family function in 1990, my uncle was at that one he had lost a lot of weight. He wasn't smiling and happy and telling jokes in his subtle way. He had a hard time listening to people around him for very long and he was known as a great listener. A few months later he wasn't able to attend anymore so I saw my aunt being lonely. That is what hit me the most, the loss a family faces when something could have been prevented and wasn't. I am so po'd right now. I changed my facebook pic to having a rainbow on it even though I don't see this exactly as a gay issue. You know why because it isn't. Even if my uncle was gay and everyone can be like oh well he got the gay disease, I still freaking lost my uncle asshole. Because I seriously don't care what someone is or isn't when they are my family, hell there are Republicans in my family. I will be sad if they die before I do. My grandfather who was a well not nice person died and I was sad. He was my grandfather and whatever it was he did in his personal life well he is still my grandfather. My uncle though he was a really genuinely nice person with a shy smile and a way of making people feel better.
zentrum
(9,866 posts)..was very slow on all of what LGBT deals with.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)It's like an afternoon soap opera, a really poorly written one at that.
Awesome post Betty
Mother Of Four
(1,718 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Love you right back.
TM99
(8,352 posts)of giving such a speech.
It would be like asking a demon to help with communion in a Catholic mass. She is simply never going to do that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)thing. It's disturbing to the core.
She has to do a full and actual accounting of what Reagan and Nancy and the rest of them actually did. But she likes to excuse the straights for their brutal negligence and heartless treatment of people of LGBT and people with AIDS.
She spoke on World AIDS Day at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church. Yeah. She lavished praise on Rick and his people and she said 'gay' 4 times in an AIDS speech. She only said 'gay' in order to excuse herself and the faith community for their atrocious actions.
This is 2007, mind you: "Twenty-five years ago, when men - mostly young gay men - began dying from a disease that had no name, we could not have, and certainly did not, talk about it in church. It would not have been proper. It would not have been polite. It would have been discomforting for so many of us.
But the disease itself was not polite, and ignoring it did not make it go away. It only made the problem worse, because the disease fed on ignorance and fear and, let's be honest, on prejudice."
So self serving and all about the poor Christians asked to serve those in need. 'We could not. It would have been discomforting to so many of us'.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=77080
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)for the inaugural prayer, right after Prop H8 was passed? I wouldn't put it past her. She is a silent homophobe, and always has been.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)In the summer of 1991, thousands of ACT UP activists descended on the resort town of Kennebunkport where the family of then President George H. W. Bush had a summer home. Bushs lack of attention to AIDS followed the same bigoted, murderous agenda of his predecessor Ronald Reagan.
http://actuparchive.stevehuggins.com/?tag=kennebunkport-action
99Forever
(14,524 posts)markj757
(194 posts)and when Hillary looses, I'm sure President Trump or President Cruz will welcome you and your community with open arms. And yes....of course I'm being sarcastic, but my point is this....I may prefer Hillary over Bernie in the primary, but as long as Bernie wins fair and square (without the need for super delegates), I would be honored to vote for Bernie and call him my President. I won't even waste my time trying to convince the Bernie folks on DU of doing the same, but if we loose this election, (which will most likely mean loosing a Supreme Court pic to swing the court), I will be curious to see what every Bernie supporter (who won't vote for Hillary) posts over the next 4 to 8 years. I'm sure their post will mostly be about their so called principled stand they took to stop Hillary from becoming President at any cost, and not about the damage being inflicted on our great country by a Trump or Cruz Presidency. And if damage sounds like hyperbole or over the top language, just remember the Iraq War and the sacrifices we made in blood and treasure because of a misguided neo-con republican President who was only incompetent. Now imagine how much damage an extreme right wing nut job like Trump or Cruz can do to this country with the full power of the Presidency.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Fear will keep the outer systems in line, eh Grand Moff Tarkin?
markj757
(194 posts)attempting to try and convince Bernie supporters of anything substantive on DU is a waste of time. Like Bernie said himself, Hillary will be far much better than anyone the republicans can nominate. But then again, who is he, just the candidate you claim to support. Thank you for proving my point.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)But trying to argue that with the supporters of an incorrigeable homophobe is like trying to play chess with pidgeons: it won't work and you'll only get crap from them.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)"just remember the Iraq War and the sacrifices we made in blood and treasure because of a misguided neo-con republican President"
- Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) gave that war her unconditional support!
Yeah, I remember that. Do you?
markj757
(194 posts)because she voted for the war in Iraq is ridiculous. If I lost that argument, then once again, so did the candidate you supposedly support, who made the same exact argument. And I'm sure if he looses this primary fair and square, he will make this same argument again as he campaigns for her across this country. That on her worst day, Hillary Clinton is by far so much better for this country than anyone the republicans can nominate. And just because they have done battle in this primary, does not make them enemies, and does not make her evil. But then again, why listen to Bernie, he is only the honest and decent man you claim to support. I know one thing, if Bernie looses this primary, I look forward to his support of Hillary and his strong endorsement of her presidential campaign, and most importantly, his vote.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Enjoy it while it lasts.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Laughed my ass off because this was so goddamn weird.
Genesis - Land of Confusion
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Something in what you wrote has me weeping, and it is a great relief to be genuinely sad rather than angry.
Thank you
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)But we will celebrate the victories, for they are few.
Protalker
(418 posts)Before Ronnie addressed AIDS. I went to Washington for the first quilt.
Today we have Cruz cozy with a preacher calling for death to gays. We need and would miss your vote.
Dorothy
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)How about that?