Just a reminder that Democrats overwhelmingly support Hillary

[bigtree]

Allan Brauer ?@allanbrauer 9m9 minutes ago
Just a reminder that Democrats overwhelmingly support @HillaryClinton. #ImWithHer

PublicPolicyPolling @ppppolls
Clinton up 55/37 w/ Dems in OH, 59/37 in IL, 56/39 in MO. But huge crossover support makes Sanders wins possible: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2016/03/midwestern-states-a-toss-up-tuesday-clinton-still-strong-in-south.html …

AlGiordano ?@AlGiordano 2h2 hours ago
Clinton winning Democrats by landslide everywhere. Sanders wins only when indies flood zone.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/PPP_March_15_Dem_Surveys.pdf …

[peacebird]

1. Then thank the goddess for the Independents!

[oldandhappy]

2. Actually some of us are underwhelmed.

[roguevalley]

88. ageed. incredibly underwhelmed and frankly, who trusts polls and pundits anymore

[kristopher]

121. Lots of us are underwhelmed...

Last updated 3/12



Last updated 3/14

[Vote2016]

3. if only we could rig the general election so that only Democrats got to vote she do fine.

[marew]

64. Ah, but it is very much already rigged!

And Hillary thinks subverting the will of the voters is a great idea! And she claims she's not a natural politician!

February 12, 2016
Debbie Wasserman Schultz asked to explain how Hillary lost NH primary by 22% but came away with same number of delegates
By Thomas Lifson
The chair of the Democratic National Committee, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, has had her thumb on the scale for Hillary Clinton, like the rest of the party establishment. When Hillary thought she was a shoo-in, they limited the number of debates and scheduled them in time slots where no one was watching. Now that Sanders is giving her a hard run, miraculously, new debates have been scheduled for prime time.
Then there is the Democratic Party’s use of superdelegates, party office holders, and insiders, designed specifically to keep top-down control of the nomination process, so that even a 22-point landslide in New Hampshire for Sanders yielded the same number of delegates as Hillary got.
Prior to the Democratic presidential debate in Milwaukee last night, CNN’s Jake Tapper had the audacity to ask the DNC chair about this. The expression on Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s face is priceless when Tapper asks her to explain to “voters new to the process” who might feel “this is all rigged” because of the superdelegates.
Tre Goins-Phillips of TheBlaze summarizes the evasive yet unintentionally revealing answer:
The DNC chairwoman explained to Tapper that the unpledged delegates, or the superdelegates, are a completely separate category from the pledged delegates, which Clinton and Sanders were competing for in the Granite State.
So far, so good. But then:
“Unpledged delegates exist, really, to make sure that party leaders and elected officials don’t have to be in a position where they are running against grassroots activists,” Wasserman Shultz said, adding that the Democratic Party “highlights inclusiveness and diversity at our convention” and wants to give activists “every opportunity” to participate, which she says it what the superdelegates are for.
Wait a minute! If grassroots activists turn out for a candidate the way they did for Sanders, the superdelegates nullify the resulting margin of victory. I guess by saying they “don’t have to be in a position where they are running against grassroots activists,” DWS means they don’t even have to go to the voters to get their way.
Thanks for explaining. This is what happens in a battle of wits with an unarmed party.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/02/debbie_wasserman_schultz_asked_to_explain_how_hillary_lost_nh_primary_by_22_but_came_away_with_same_number_of_delegates_.html


Also: Grassroots Clinton field offices co-located at DNC offices
In a recent VICE News report, reporter Pete Voelker described seeing firsthand how the Clinton campaign had rented a campaign office within the local Democratic Party office in Nevada, a crucial early primary state. Indeed, both the Clinton field office and the Carson City Democratic Party list the same address: 502 E. John Street.
“With its walls papered with Hillary Clinton signs and the seats carefully arranged for the Hillary for America ribbon-cutting, it was hard to tell where the Democratic Party’s office ended and the Clinton office began. There were a few signs referencing Obama and the Affordable Care Act, but as far as I could tell, there weren’t any that mentioned the two other Democrats running for president.”
However, Sanders campaign spokeswoman Joan Kato said no local Democratic Party officials offered any office space to their Nevada operations.
“None of our offices are located within the Nevada State Democratic Party or any of their affiliate offices,” Kato told VICE News.
http://usuncut.com/politics/debbie-wasserman-schultz-hillary-clinton/

[Betty Karlson]

4. Was this poll taken before or after she praised Nancy?

Enquiring minds want to know how many self-identified "progressives" still believe she is on the right side of the LGBT community.

[Herman4747]

5. Just a reminder: To Win in November, We'll need the support...

...of AT LEAST SOME OF THE INDEPENDENTS!!!

And Bernie has shown a greater capacity to achieve this, as the original poster notes.

[GreatGazoo]

6. That's what you said about Michigan

According to our final polls-plus forecast, Hillary Clinton had a greater than 99% chance of winning the Michigan primary.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/michigan-democratic/

[HooptieWagon]

7. Dems can't win w/o independent's votes.

It would be very foolish to nominate a candidate who badly loses the Independent vote.

[bigtree]

11. that's what we need

...more opportunistic Democrats hijacking our party's nomination process.

[HooptieWagon]

16. More like a hostage rescue mission.

It's time the party was taken back from the corporatists.

[marions ghost]

17. ^^^

[bigtree]

23. party rescue by independents who will mostly vote republican in the general?

...amazing to find folks clamoring for ideological purity from their rival in this campaign so willing to accept such dubiously affiliated supporters influencing our party's nominating process.

Cute that you believe they're really supporting Bernie.

[HooptieWagon]

25. What makes you think Independents will vote R?

You're just pulling that out of your ass. Independents are not the center. There is no center, as both party establishments are pretty far right. Independents are to the far right and far left... There's much more room on the left, and most independent's are there.
There will be an easy test in Nov if Hillary is nominated. Jill Stein got 0.36% of the vote in 2012. Look at the number she gets in 2016...imo at least as much as Nader got in 2000 (2.5%), probably more. That will be enough to lose every single swing state and the GE.

[arcane1]

54. All they do is pull nonsense from their asses and pretend it's true. Just like Hillary n/t

[Svafa]

32. I consider myself an independent because I am too far to the LEFT

to consider myself a democrat. Please stop hinting that independents are secret Republicans. I have never voted R in my life. Surely some are, but we are not all disaffected moderates, Republicans scared of Trump, or libertarians. Stop painting us all with a broad brush. I don't know a single Independent who has given any indication of voting R in November.

[bigtree]

66. most polls split the affiliation of indies down the middle between parties

,,,but I'm not so naive to ignore the very real practice of spoilers switching over to disrupt our primary. It's a well-known practice in MI.

[HooptieWagon]

73. Proof?

[bigtree]

79. Gallup

"In addition to the 31% of Americans who identify as Democrats, another 16% initially say they are independents but when probed say they lean to the Democratic Party. An equivalent percentage, 16%, say they are independent but lean to the Republican Party, on top of the 25% of Americans identifying as Republicans. All told, then, 47% of Americans identify as Democrats or lean to the Democratic Party, and 41% identify as Republicans or lean to the Republican Party."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/166763/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx

[HooptieWagon]

81. That doesn't prove R-leaning Independents are voting in Dem primary.

Try again.

[bigtree]

87. well, you don't disprove it either

...logic and experience say otherwise.

'HooptieWagon' begs to differ.

[Pat Riots]

105. logic and experience are fibbing then

or there would be proof.

[Svafa]

76. If those polls are correct, it means that HALF of a very large

group leans left, yet you imply that most of us are conservatives or will at least vote R in the fall?

[HooptieWagon]

82. They're just making shit up.

[Gwhittey]

99. Is this a classic case of projection?

[Fawke Em]

101. Same here.

I'm a leftie Independent. Of course, it helps that I don't have to register with a party to vote in primaries in my state. Just not something I ever did, but I always voted Democrat (except in a few local races where I had to vote Republican because there was no Dem running and I wanted a say between the really bad one and the bad one, but I digress).

[beedle]

114. If they do what difference will it make who the Dem candidate is?

I don't get your logic?

If you really believe the independents will only vote in the Dem primary, then after the primaries switch over and vote republican, why would having Hillary or Bernie as the candidate make any difference?

Do you think these independents will remain with the Dems, after voting for Bernie and losing?
Do you think if the independents were locked out of the primaries that this would make it more likely they would vote Dem in the GE?

Can you explain your line of thinking here?

[UglyGreed]

58. [phone]

[calguy]

35. Democrats can't lose

with Trump or Cruz running on GOP ticket.

[HooptieWagon]

47. Don't bet the farm on it.

As much as republicans hate Trump and Cruz, they hate Hillary more. They will turn out in record numbers just to vote against her. She does not excite the Dem base, and only 1/3 of Independent's favor her (vs. 2/3 Sanders). Dem votes will be low, like Kerry numbers or lower. It's a recipe for disaster.

[Kelvin Mace]

8. Just a reminder that a coronation has not taken place

and Democrats can't win without independents.

[bigtree]

13. some states regard them as spoilers in our Democratic primary

...and I agree.

[marions ghost]

19. In my state 40% of voters are Indys

--you better believe they count. The parties have to earn their votes.

[bigtree]

27. the problem for your candidate

...is that, in many states, you need to be a Democrat to vote in the primary.

No advantaging your campaign off of people who don't give a damn about the Democratic party, and many who will likely vote republican in the general.

[marions ghost]

62. That's why I support open primaries

let the Democrats earn the support of anyone and everyone.

[Kelvin Mace]

90. They would give a damn if Dems quit pandering to the Right

A LOT of people left the Dem party (my wife and I for example) because we were tired of being asked to support conservative candidates who supported issues we vehemently disagreed with.

[Armstead]

30. "our" Democratic primary

a nice inclusive and welcoming attitude there.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

42. So you're not that big on the democratic process I take it...

You have a very "small-tent" view IMHO, and that is the problem when the establishment wants to game the system.

[HooptieWagon]

52. Dem establishment represents the 1%...

I guess they're looking for 1% Dem registration. Not sure how they'll win elections, but they don't care as long as they still have their spots at the corporate feed trough.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

59. Dump em all. My hope is that Bernie wins so

We The People can start cleaning house of the 3rd wayers that have polluted the party.

[HooptieWagon]

69. Some will return to the GOP from where they came.

I don't mind if the remainder want to stay, but their lock on power has got to end.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

74. The present GOP will reject them outright.

I'd rather all the corporate Dems were sent packing and that the party returns to the people.

[HooptieWagon]

77. I think we'll soon see a realignment...

...and the emergence of a third party.

[Kelvin Mace]

92. They can go start a "3rd way party"

like the wanted to.

[Kelvin Mace]

91. This is why we keep losing in the mid terms

"Mainstream Democrats" today are the "Rockerfeller Republicans" of yesterday.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

109. Sadly true.

[dchill]

49. That's not very Democratic.

[Kelvin Mace]

89. If the Dems consider them spoilers

then they need to either change their policies to get them in the fold, or plan on losing elections.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

9. I am curious about the last column,

Republicans clearly prefer Bernie over Hillary, primarily because they have been fed hate and lies about her for years.

But, I wonder if Bernie actually is the easier winner in the GE.

I am beginning to believe more and more (I have a preference for Bernie but I am on board for either) that Bernie actually could win, and maybe even win big.

I think there are right leaning people who dont want to vote for the GOP for obvious reasons, but also dont want to vote for Hillary, for reasons of the brainwashing and propaganda they have been fed for years.

[gcomeau]

10. Which is different than "liberals/progressives" overwhelmingly support.

And I know which of those two groups I give more of a shit about.

I support the Democratic party because they are the more liberal of a binary choice. But never lose sight of the fact that the cause most of us on this board are fighting for is liberalism. Not "Democratic Partyism." And a BIG fucking chunk of those independents are liberals and progressives who have decided that the "more" liberal party isn't nearly liberal enough. And they're sure as hell not wrong.

But hey, keep fighting the good fight to ease the party to the right with Clinton.

[djean111]

12. Well, great! Then - why the need to demand loyalty oaths, disparage Bernie, and

demonize his supporters? That mystifies me, frankly. Why not just sit back, and relax?

Or is this, somehow, a directive that if some of us Democrats support Bernie, we are somehow doing something wrong? That if we would just shuffle into that DNC-for-Hillary chute, there would not be enough Independent votes for Bernie to win?

Kind of rhetorical questions, really, I am just amazed at the constant rancor and prodding of Hillary supporters - if you're happy and you know it's in the bag, clap your hands!, to slightly paraphrase a cheery song.

[bigtree]

14. sit back an relax

...as independents (of unknown political persuasion) and republicans hijack our party's primary?

Fine for you, maybe.

[marions ghost]

21. "independents hijack our party's primary"......

--!!!! what an arrogant attitude. You should be trying to welcome them.

[bigtree]

28. I don't welcome spoilers of any stripe

...in our Democratic primary.

[marions ghost]

33. You dont want Independents

voting for Democrats is what you're saying.

They are "Spoilers" because they don't want the party's predetermined candidate? Not even if they still vote Dem. So only a few loyalists should be allowed to vote.

Foolish...

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

46. What a short-sighted person you appear to be.

That's not a mindset that I would expect from a Democrat. A RW conservative, certainly.

[djean111]

22. I am relaxed, really. My family voted for Bernie a few days ago.

"Not voting for Hillary" does not translate to "hijack our party's primary" unless Hillary really was supposed to be handed the nomination. And those nefarious

independents (of unknown political persuasion) and republicans

will be needed in the GE, you know. A LOT of the GOP really hates Hillary, and a lot of the Independents may not even bother to vote.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. "We, as Democrats right now, should tap into the discontent of Republicans. I want some Obama

Republicans!" - Barack Obama as candidate, 2008. That hijacker!

[gcomeau]

48. One question for you.

Are you first and foremost a liberal who supports the Democratic party because it is the more liberal of the two parties.... or are you first and foremost a member of the Democratic party because... well you give a reason if it isn't advancing the cause of liberalism.


Those independents you're all outraged are voting? A great big chunk of them are liberals and progressives who got fed the fuck up with the Democratic party's constant march to the right over the last few decades. I know I want their input on a good candidate considering we need their votes to actually... you know.... win.


Which is why Clinton may be winning the registered Democratic vote but Bernie is winning the LIBERAL vote. Clinton's support comes primarily from the right side of the party, not the left. Some of us consider that to be of concern.

[bigtree]

97. I view the Democratic party as a coalition; a vehicle for advancing progressive ideals

...and initiatives through the political system, hopefully into enactment.

To your second point, I question the wisdom, logic, efficacy of staging a 'political revolution' after two terms of a Democratic presidency -- the majority of which, so far, has been directed toward Hillary Clinton and members and institutions of the Democratic party who associate themselves with her candidacy.

Your point about the ideological identification of her support is factually incorrect.

[gcomeau]

107. Ahem...

Your point about the ideological identification of her support is factually incorrect.

That is an amazingly laughable statement. You cannot possibly be unaware of the relative positions in the spectrum Sanders and Clinton occupy and that Sanders is unequivocally to her left. The only place Clinton has drawn majority support from self identified "very liberal" voters is in the South / Bible Belt... where, let's face reality, the bar for calling oneself "very liberal" is a little different and she took majority support from every group in states she will never carry in the general.


In the meantime the very liberal breakdown from the rest of the states where exit polling was available:


Iowa - Sanders 58 - Clinton 39 (If Sanders had a 20 point margin in the very liberal voters in a state that came in a dead heat guess where Clinton made up the differnce? Go ahead, guess.)

New Hampshire - Sanders 67 - Clinton 33 (Took the state by 22... took very liberal voters by 34. Guess where Clinton closed the gap? )

Nevada - Sanders 52 - Clinton 47 (Won very liberal voters by 5 points, lost the state by 5 points. Guess where Clinton made up those 10 points?)

Mass - Sanders 57 - Clinton 42 (Took very liberal voters by 15 points in a state he lost by 1.5. How did Clinton win? The NOT very liberal part of the party that's fucking how.)

Oklahoma - Sanders 58 - Clinton 42 (Took very liberal voters by 16 points in a primary he won by 10. Where did Clinton close those 6 points from bigtree? It wasn't the super duper ultra liberal wing of the party that was even further out to the left_.

Vermont - Sanders 91 Clinton 9

Michigan - Sanders 59 - Clinton 41 (18 points. 18. Took the state by 2. Guess where Clinton made up those 16 points?)


It is simply incontestable that Sanders support comes from the left of the party to FAR greater degree than Clinton's does. Which should be for mind blowingly obvious reasons. Clinton's base of support is NOT rooted in the progressives of the party.

[bigtree]

149. look at the southern states

...not one on your list.

Wonder why?

[gcomeau]

150. Try actually reading my post.

It was fairly clear why.

[bigtree]

152. those states suit your narrative

...the states Hillary won in the South by a blowout do not.

[gcomeau]

154. Yes, they do actually.

Try finding anywhere Clintons support skewed significantly stronger in the very liberal end than the moderate/centrist end.

[Herman4747]

57. Do deeply consider the following proposition

bigtree is focused too much on the primaries, and not enough on the November general election. Think it over. Deeply.

We need independents to win in November, bigtree. Bernie attracts substantially more of them.

[timmymoff]

155. The hijacking happened years ago

with the aid of democrats like Hillary. Do not deny this. Deep down you do not feel the democrats have became more progressive over time when in fact the opposite is true. Sanders was supposed to be gone by now, why isn't he? Her negativities, people's lack of trust in her. She earned this long hard slog on her own. Being on every side of an issue and having DWS all but rig it in her favor is a hijacking in it's own right.

[basselope]

15. Independents make up the plurality of voters.

Most of them LEAN democrat.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/11/independents-outnumber-democrats-and-republicans-but-theyre-not-very-independent/

So, yes, when you ask the 29% of people who identify themselves as "democrats", you will probably find more Clinton supporters than Bernie, because Bernie has always been an independent.

[pinebox]

18. You can NOT win with only Dem support

Your chart is 100% irrelevant.
You can NOT win with only Dem support.
Indy's are the largest voting block and guess who has them?
Bernie.

http://usuncut.com/politics/independent-voters-bernie/


Many of us, including myself, fall into that category.

[oasis]

93. Indys are aware the GOP will install 3 Scalia clones on SCOTUS.

They will come to Hillary after she wraps up the nomination.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Barack Obama, Feb 2008: ""We are bringing together Democrats and independents, and yes, some

Republicans. I know there's—I meet them when I'm shaking hands afterwards. There's one right there. An Obamacan, that's what we call them."


He also said: "We, as Democrats right now, should tap into the discontent of Republicans. I want some Obama Republicans!"


But of course the rules are different for Bernie, but not because of any nasty bias. The rules are just different because God says so.

[2banon]

24. Why remind us that the majority of Americans are not too bright, and vote against their best

interests the majority of the time?

Is that you what you're going with? The "Majority" of Americans?

[Carlo Marx]

26. Thank you for pointing out another Clinton vulnerability.

She has very limited appeal, mostly to older party loyalists.

[Ichingcarpenter]

36. Cheney, Bush and Kissinger love her

Aren't they Republicans?

[bigtree]

38. most Democrats support both Bernie and Clinton

...and have expressed overwhelming support for both if nominated.

Sanders is deliberately untouched by the republican assault, with operatives waiting to see if he can knock their most formidable contender out of the race. That's why republican pac money is being spent in every state against Hillary.

We don't really know what Sanders' appeal will be after they open up a full-throttle republican campaign against him. Experience tells us it won't be pretty. He's a blank slate to most Americans, ready for the opposition to paint him any which way they please. Bravado which assumes he's more resilient than he's been so far trailing Clinton, at this point, is little more than a vain hope.

[DCBob]

31. So if Sanders somehow wins the Dem nomination, it will be because of non-Democratic voters...

Indies and Rethugs.. That seems terribly wrong.

[Kentonio]

39. No it doesn't.

This idea that there are people who are neatly tagged 'Democrats' who are the good guys, and everyone outside that is somehow lesser, is just sad. The party has been shedding members for years, and when those people come back because we finally have a progressive candidate, we're supposed to turn our noses up at them?

EVERY voter should be a potential Democratic voter, and if we have a candidate who draws those people in, then that's brilliant.

[DCBob]

56. They should join the Democratic party if they want to help pick the Democratic nominee.

I dont get why that's a problem.

[Kentonio]

70. Because it's a two party system

And registering as Independent is one of the few ways people have of making their voice heard when they disapprove of the direction of the party.

[DCBob]

84. It would be better to be inside fighting for changes than on the outside throwing rocks.

imo.

[Kentonio]

98. Why? How exactly has that worked out for progressives so far?

Every election the candidates say nice progressive sounding things in the primary, then immediately swing center right for the general. Progressives get called 'fucking retards' by senior administration officials and are supposed to just suck it up and still toe the line. All the evidence would appear to show that 'fighting for change from the inside' has been a pretty bad strategy.

[DCBob]

104. The more progressives on the inside the more likely progressive things will get pushed.

If you choose to stay on the outside it will be much tougher if not impossible.

[marions ghost]

41. Huh? "Terribly wrong"--what a weird thing to say

If Sanders wins--it will be because of voters voting for a Democratic candidate over a RethugliCon candidate. How are they "non-Democratic voters'? They are allying with Democrats--they would also do that if they liked Hillary.

You don't make sense.

[DCBob]

51. Of course I have no problem with non-D's voting for us in November.. we want them all.

But if they want to be involved in picking the Democratic candidate then they should join the Democratic party. Not "weird" at all.

[marions ghost]

60. Seems not right to

partially disenfranchise people. Open primaries are the best.

[DCBob]

63. Well I disagree.

Open primaries "open" up the possibilities of shenanigans by the opposing party which I do suspect is happening in some of these open states. I doubt it will have much impact in the end but I still dont like it. Closed primaries are better.

[marions ghost]

68. Defection doesn't have as much impact as people like to think

--open primaries lead to fairer elections overall.

We'll agree to disagree I expect.

[Warren DeMontague]

130. Well on that day,

I will be happy to call the whaaaaaaambulance for you.

[DCBob]

133. Joker.

[Warren DeMontague]

138. Right, and what do I win if we nominate the uninspiring "inevitable" candidate being foisted on us

by the lame likes of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and then somewhere between the convention and November an FBI indictment shoe drops?


Ah, silly question, I know what I'll win; the dubious entertainment value of watching a certain crowd here try and blame THAT shit on "berniebros" too.

[DCBob]

144. Hillary Clinton may be the most qualified and knowledgeable candidate to ever to run for President.

Sorry if that doesn't "inspire" you.

[Warren DeMontague]

146. Another line someone made up because it sounds good, but is totally meaningless.

"Most qualified"? Okay, sure. First off, there are NO qualifications for the office of POTUS, because the job is singularly unlike any other on Earth.

Also, if we're going on the basis of resumes on paper alone, probably the "most qualified" individual to walk into the oval office in the past 50 years was Richard Milhous Nixon. Like some other folks, he seemed to want it to the point of clouding his better judgment, too.

Abraham Lincoln was probably relatively less qualified to be POTUS, and he did fine. He wasn't exactly a dummy, either. FDR came into the WH from the governor's mansion in New York and led the country out of a depression and through a world war. I think his "qualifications" displayed themselves admriably via his performance.

I would argue that if we really want to debate who was the "most qualified and knowledgeable" to ever run I would have to say Jefferson, even though he had his faults too.

But in terms of being a titan of thought vis a vis American Democracy, I would have to go with that guy.

No one is saying Hillary isnt bright and informed - certainly not me - but when you make statements like that you just make yourself sound silly. JMO, of course.

[DCBob]

147. Perhaps there are others in our long history who were somewhat more qualified.

But she is clearly near the top. Anyone who doesn't realize that is truly "silly".

Here's Hillary's resume for your edification..

• Graduate of Yale Law School, where she was one of just 27 women in her graduating class.
  
• Young lawyer for the Children’s Defense Fund where she worked to help enact legislation to help children with disabilities in Massachusetts.
  
• Lawyer for the Congressional Committee investigating President Nixon.
  
• First Lady of Arkansas where she worked to improve educational standards and health care access for the people of Arkansas.
  
• First Lady of United States where she worked to reform our health care system and helped create the Children's Health Insurance Program. Here is where she learned what Republicans are capable of doing when faced with a strong intelligent aggressive woman.
  
• U.S. Senator for New York, probably the most diverse, complex and important state in the country.. economically, financially, politically, and diplomatically. While Senator she worked to secure funding to rebuild New York after 9/11 and fought to provide health care for first responders who were contaminated at Ground Zero. Also helped to expanded TRICARE so that members of the Reserves and National Guard and their families could get better access to health care.
  
• Ran for President in 2008 where she learned the hard way what it takes to win.
  
• Served as Secretary of State for 4 years. She was instrumental in starting to restore America’s standing in the world. She helped build a coalition for tough new sanctions against Iran that brought them to the negotiating table and brokered a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas that ended a war. She also was a forceful champion for human rights, internet freedom, and rights and opportunities for women and girls, LGBT people and young people all around the globe.
  

[Warren DeMontague]

148. I'm familiar with her resume, thanks.

The main issue I have with it is her voting record from 2002-2006, the period of flag burning legislation, the IWR, and "marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman".

You should look up Nixon's "qualifications" some time. What i said is true.

[Cassiopeia]

34. Just a reminder, Independents win general elections,

not Democrats.

[Cal33]

37. We should also take into consideration that large numbers of Democrats have

left their Party because they could no longer take the status quo policy of the
Third Way Democrats who are in power now. Many have joined the Independents.
My guess is that these probably are among the ones who crossed over and helped
Bernie to win in Michigan, for example. I imagine most of the Democrats who left
their Party probably were Progressives. And the Democratic Establishment of
today has become largely made up of Third Way Democrats.

The Independents have recently become the largest "party" - larger than either
the Democratic or Republican Parties. Many dissatisfied Republicans have joined
the Independents, too. Yet, because the Independents are made up of many
smaller political entities, that most likely are not interested in and not capable of
uniting, it has not become a genuine political entity. I wonder if this situation will
gradually evolve and change into something else some day, although from my
present perspective, I don't see how this can be accomplished.

[marions ghost]

50. The more this goes on the more I tire of party politics

Since we can't count on the party to have representation that includes Liberal progressives--and that has has now been proven beyond a shadow of doubt--how can we have "unity." For ONCE we have a candidate for The Rest of Us and the party establishment does everything they can to discourage him.

The Democratic party has got to be aware of this trend. It appears they don't want to face it. Very backward thinking.

[HooptieWagon]

65. Exactly.

The party has given the middle finger to liberals for 30 years, now is doing so to millenials. Not much of a future in that, and party registration is going to go down further if they don't wake up.

[marions ghost]

83. They need to wake up quick

--the country is trending Independent and it will accelerate after this one--I see the signs of general disgust with the parties all around me.

Of course the party of tRump and the KKK has a more spectacular, more life or death problem.

But what is going on in the Dem party this time is no less cataclysmic.

[saltpoint]

151. Outstanding comment. Recent social

politics observations back you up handsomely on those points.

Sanders' campaign is not well received by the same Democratic establishment whose attitude is losing the support and creating the appeal for independent voting. It must be painful for the establishment to ask themselves why Sanders is packing arenas, or even why he is impressively competitive in the first place.

[marions ghost]

158. I imagine they're pretty stunned

but Comet Sanders has everybody out with their scopes trained on him now. I think the party had warning that there was grumbling in the ranks, easy to ignore and still get the votes--that was a deliberate and (as we see now) damaging miscalculation. And they totally underestimated the Independents. I'm not letting the establishment Dem leadership off the hook--they're so out of touch and sold out they don't even understand their own constituency.

This was Not Supposed To Happen.

Thanks for the

[saltpoint]

159. Agree, marions ghost. Especially that

the party "misunderestimated" the independents.

I'm lifted also by tonight's story in Chicago. Sanders' last-minute rally in Chicago has packed yet another hall. The crowd is said to be charged up for tomorrow's vote.

I'm crossing every finger I got in hopes of a Sanders win in Illinois tomorrow. It's What's-Her-Name's home state.

[marions ghost]

160. with ya

I believe we'll be ing tomorrow for Illinois (and points beyond)

Cya tomorrow night!

[saltpoint]

161. Roger that, mg. eom

[Cal33]

78. I agree with you. My hope is that Bernie Sanders, among other things, will help

to bring unity to the Democratic Party. He has the makings of a second FDR.
He sure has a rough road ahead. I don't expect to see it accomplished in my
lifetime.

[marions ghost]

86. There is a rough road ahead for everyone

--big changes must come. Sanders is willing to lead the way. It will take time to ford this passage, but otherwise it's a downhill slide. I fervently hope he gets the job. Masses of Americans want significant change of course now.

[Cal33]

100. "For once we have a candidate for The Rest of Us and

<< For ONCE we have a candidate for The Rest of Us and the party establishment does everything they can to discourage him.

The Democratic party has got to be aware of this trend. It appears they don't want to face it. Very backward thinking. >>

Orders from the Corporate Power people, perhaps? Bernie is out to cut down the Big Banks
to size, reform our present way of elections so that money will no longer play a role, have public universities charge no tuition fees ........ and so many other reforms that will reduce the
profits and power of the Corporate Power people. No way are they going to take it lying down.
They definitely are doing everything they can to get Bernie out.

[marions ghost]

142. Oh I can see they are doing that

which is why a vote for Bernie is a very strong vote for People power over Corporate power.

Time for Reforms.

[Funtatlaguy]

40. So, you favor closed primaries?

Some people do and some don't.
Obviously, since some states are open and some closed.
My state is an open and Hillary still won Georgia in a landslide.

[jillan]

43. Which is fine and good during the primaries but during the GE it is much more important to have

cross-over appeal.

If dems make up 33% of the voting bloc we are in trouble if our nominee is only popular with Dems.

[Kip Humphrey]

44. And the rest of the country likes Bernie (by your numbers)

Gee, I wonder who is more electable against the republicon field?

[coyote]

45. Which is all good and fine

Until it all goes horribly wrong in November

[riversedge]

53. Yes they do and thanks for the reminder

[sadoldgirl]

55. Interesting statistic, and it shows what

happened to the party, and why they lost so many
former members.

By the way, in my state we had closed caucuses,and
like it or not, Bernie won by a considerable amount.

But those things don't fit your story, of course.

[Uponthegears]

61. Okay, I get it

After the Third Way, who DESTROYED a majority Democratic Party (btw, OUR PRESIDENT thanks you and his to-be Supreme Court nominee also thanks you so much for that) selects THEIR nominee, then those of us who have stood for the party of FDR, of Kennedy, of McGovern, and YES, of SANDERS get to put YOUR nominee in office?

We so appreciate you telling us what we should do.

[ladyVet]

110. It's just more of the usual.

Hey, vote for us! We're not Republicans!

Thanks for your vote. Now, sit down and shut up. Here, have some peas.

It's a damned good thing I like peas, though they're more expensive so I've had to switch to green beans. And I'm still waiting on that fucking pony.

[Lizzie Poppet]

67. "Go sportsball team and/or local college!"

Number of fucks given about branding: 0. Number of fucks given about electing an actual progressive: ?

[TheDormouse]

71. Just a reminder: That was also true in the 2008 primary lol nt

[Csainvestor]

72. Democrats are only 30% of the nation.

Hillary and democrats win when voter turnout is low.
Neither the republicans nor the democrats want a high voter turnout.

Only Bernie is asking for high voter turnout.

[ChiciB1]

75. THIS Is MY REASON For Not Being A Supporter Of Closed

Primaries. Maybe Clinton will win tomorrow because many have already voted and THERE IS NO WAY to re-register your Party affiliation right now! It ended ended 2/15/2016 and because too many people NEVER pay attention to politics, much less want to talk about it, they are now upset that they DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS!

So many here did so much to make this a big deal, just don't know if enough people found out in time. Bernie's rallies here drew YUUUUUGE, YUUUUGE numbers, Hillary barely broke 1,000. So DID enough people get the message???

If we didn't have closed Primaries, Bernie WOULD win Florida! I KNOW THIS! I just KNOW THIS!

Even with that I DO NOT trust our machines and what The Clinton Machine, DNC & DWS is going to do to to "fix" it for her!

Time is upon us! I'm afraid to hope!

[Surya Gayatri]

80. K & R

[ladjf]

85. That statistic reflects poorly on the Democratic Party, not Bernie.

[Major Hogwash]

94. Sanders is ahead in Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois.

After Bernie won in Michigan, you'd think you'd move to the left and join the rest of us.
Hillary's come undone.

[bigtree]

95. he'll split delegates in those states

...even if he wins those three.

I thought his 2% win in MI was less impressive than the 66-point Hillary victory in MS. Now THAT'S a movement!

[Firebrand Gary]

106. BINGO!

[ladyVet]

113. Hillary wins the racist vote! Yay.

Not impressed.

[NCTraveler]

96. That is very clear. As do most of the voting left. nt.

[Phlem]

102. !

Good one!

[greymouse]

103. I didn't realize only Democrats voted in the general. I learn something every day.

[cosmicone]

108. We should not have open primaries

That is like having my neighbors having a say in the decor of MY house.

[UglyGreed]

112. LOL next they should

only allow Democrat land owners to vote............wonder who we could scrub next.....

[cosmicone]

118. Democratic party is a private organization

People can become members rather than use it for exploiting its benefits without serving in it.

About 40% of the primaries are already closed for your information.

[UglyGreed]

123. Make it 100% next

year and include my recommendations. BTW I live in one of the states that is closed thank you very much............

[cosmicone]

124. It is our party -- we shouldn't leave it open to be hijacked. n/t

[UglyGreed]

129. Big tent indeed

I believe over 40% of people now claim to be Independent.......not a good sign for those who do not want to expand what you call "your" party....

[cosmicone]

132. No one stops them from joining the party. n/t

[UglyGreed]

134. Problem is

they don't trust either party... soon we may see a third party from the left rise......occupy is still around and working hard to either pull the Democratic Party back to the left or start another party. Perhaps the Green Party will become the choice of true progressives IDK.

[cosmicone]

135. Meh ... lot of third parties have been tried

The fact that they don't succeed reveals the strength of the two-party system.

[UglyGreed]

136. Meh no that is not the reason

it is the rules which both the Democrats and Republicans have agreed upon..... but time will tell and the course of action has already began.....

[gcomeau]

116. No...

...because you see independent voters are voters you need to win. They're like your customers that you will be trying to get to buy your product. Not your neighbors who have nothing to do with your living room decorations.


So which company do you think is going to be more successful?


Company A: "Hey you guys, come in here and give us some input on what features you would like to see in a product you would be interested in buying"

Company B: "Hey you guys... GET AWAY FROM US! This is our business not yours! You don't work here! You have no say here! Also... if you could please come back in 6 months during out product launch and give us your business instead of shopping at our competitor that would be greeeeeeat."



Guess whose going out of business sale is shortly following their product launch?

[cosmicone]

119. We can win the independents in GE

No need to have external people to have a say in our party to cause mischief or to hijack it.

[gcomeau]

128. You can win SOME independents in GE.

How many depends on how you treat them.

Telling them to go fuck themselves you aren't interested in their opinion.... not the best strategy to win MORE of them. And that's not exactly the most complicated of concepts so maybe you should pause and ask yourself what's giving you so much trouble with it.

[Number23]

111. I've seen several analyses in the international press that there are many groups that

Sanders is having a hard time convincing, one of the major ones being actual DEMOCRATS. That's been clear from the start and this chart does nothing but show how unconvinced large swaths of Democrats are.

[cosmicone]

125. Precisely. Thank you. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

140. I think geography is going to become more important as time goes on.

I know there are some people here who are only dimly aware that there is a country west of the Mississippi, but believe it or not there are a whole fuckton of people who live there.

[Number23]

115. "Simply put, Clinton is the choice of her party — its voters and its leaders"

From the New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/03/14/has-bernie-sanders-been-underestimated/hillary-clintons-strength-lies-with-the-closed-primaries

[cosmicone]

126. ^^^ THIS ^^^^ n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

139. "The choice of a new generation"™

Okay, maybe not so much.

[CalvinballPro]

156. Don't forget that several southern states that Clinton won by wide margins were also open.

And the list of states with open primaries that haven't voted yet is running very short these days. I could be wrong, but I think we're down to 5 left and that's it. Everything else will be closed, or maybe semi-open.

[Number23]

162. I think the discussion on open vs closed primaries is one that is desperately needed

And semi-open primaries are just confusing. I bet there are lots of people that have no idea what that entails.

[beedle]

117. what do you propose?

Locking out the independents from voting in the primaries? You think that will make them more likely to vote Dem in the GE?

If when they are allowed to vote in the primaries, and they vote overwhelmingly for Bernie, what makes you think that's a nad sign for the GE?

Do you think they held a big secret Independent Convention and plotted to get Bernie elected only to dump him in the GE?

Maybe Hillary should start complaining about Independents in the debates and town halls if you think that will help.

[mcar]

120. K&R

[hobbit709]

122. I'm not overwhelmed at all. FEEL THE BERN!

[Warren DeMontague]

127. Apparently not as overwhelmingly as they were supposed to.

She was supposed to have this thing wrapped up a long time ago.

[Warren DeMontague]

131. How's she polling with true scotsmen?

[Spider Jerusalem]

137. but Democrats don't win elections without independents (n/t)

[panader0]

141. So, Democrats are about 30 something percent of voters, Republicans a bit less

and Independents are 40 percent. That's what third way policies have done. Driven Dems from the party.

[Warren DeMontague]

143. Who decided that "efff you" was a good campaign strategy?

[Recoverin_Republican]

145. The GOP's Great Hope: the Independents....GOP: "Bring us the one they call Bernie"

[noretreatnosurrender]

153. Do you think Independents are all Republicans?

I guess you forgot that a lot of Democrats are now Independents because their Party gave them lip service on their issues and they left. Please tell me you are not that ill informed.

[cherokeeprogressive]

157. Haven't met a single one.