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Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:15 PM

 

Tell me why me and almost everyone else in my age group should trust Hillary.

Why should I believe that Hillary is the best candidate for progressive change, since you all want to gloat so badly. Why should I believe that she believes in leftist ideals as opposed to "saying whatever will get me through an election"

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Reply Tell me why me and almost everyone else in my age group should trust Hillary. (Original post)
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 OP
bigwillq Mar 2016 #1
Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #47
0rganism Mar 2016 #2
enough Mar 2016 #3
Kalidurga Mar 2016 #4
21st Century Poet Mar 2016 #58
Kalidurga Mar 2016 #65
choie Mar 2016 #5
MuseRider Mar 2016 #6
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #7
mythology Mar 2016 #39
Cal33 Mar 2016 #55
Maedhros Mar 2016 #76
leftofcool Mar 2016 #60
Armstead Mar 2016 #8
SamKnause Mar 2016 #9
yourout Mar 2016 #10
gcomeau Mar 2016 #11
Barack_America Mar 2016 #12
LuvLoogie Mar 2016 #13
BumRushDaShow Mar 2016 #14
laureloak Mar 2016 #75
Lil Missy Mar 2016 #15
Post removed Mar 2016 #18
JTFrog Mar 2016 #35
SheenaR Mar 2016 #50
Shadowflash Mar 2016 #54
coyote Mar 2016 #73
Jitter65 Mar 2016 #16
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #23
Armstead Mar 2016 #25
kgnu_fan Mar 2016 #17
mooseprime Mar 2016 #19
lapfog_1 Mar 2016 #56
PWPippin Mar 2016 #20
dana_b Mar 2016 #21
calguy Mar 2016 #22
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #24
calguy Mar 2016 #30
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #37
Armstead Mar 2016 #34
itsrobert Mar 2016 #26
Stallion Mar 2016 #27
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #31
Stallion Mar 2016 #36
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #38
Chasstev365 Mar 2016 #28
Onlooker Mar 2016 #29
TheDormouse Mar 2016 #40
Onlooker Mar 2016 #46
TheDormouse Mar 2016 #70
Onlooker Mar 2016 #72
TheDormouse Mar 2016 #44
Onlooker Mar 2016 #48
XRubicon Mar 2016 #32
rock Mar 2016 #33
Kittycat Mar 2016 #41
Chan790 Mar 2016 #42
hobbit709 Mar 2016 #43
Doctor_J Mar 2016 #45
Demsrule86 Mar 2016 #49
desmiller Mar 2016 #51
revbones Mar 2016 #53
femmedem Mar 2016 #52
jillan Mar 2016 #57
Lint Head Mar 2016 #59
randome Mar 2016 #61
alarimer Mar 2016 #62
Basic LA Mar 2016 #63
darkwing Mar 2016 #64
GulfCoast66 Mar 2016 #66
DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #67
darkwing Mar 2016 #68
riderinthestorm Mar 2016 #69
RobinA Mar 2016 #71
laureloak Mar 2016 #74

Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:16 PM

1. I don't trust Hillary. At all.

 

But there's very few--if any--politicians I do trust.

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Response to bigwillq (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 04:25 AM

47. She is a silent homophobe, and I am done voting for homophobes.

 

NEVER again.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:17 PM

2. why restrict the explanation to your age group?

but if you do so, you should probably say what you consider to be your age group.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:17 PM

3. You shouldn't, no matter what your age group.

I'm 72, and I don't.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:17 PM

4. No one should trust her

Even Bill, he prolly should sleep with an eye open.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:09 AM

58. Is Hillary more untrustworthy than Bill? Really?

History has shown that she shouldn't trust him more than he shouldn't trust her. Lest we forget, let's go over this one more time: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Ouch.

Never trust a man who cheats on his wife. He who thinks nothing of cheating the people closest to him (and to whom he has made a public oath to live with and protect) will think nothing of cheating everybody else. And don't for a moment think that extramarital sexual relations have anything to with love or being liberal and progressive. It's all about lust and power, and using that power to sexually prey on others.

But maybe Mr and Mrs Clinton are both untrustworthy and therefore fully deserve each other.

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Response to 21st Century Poet (Reply #58)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:58 AM

65. You have a point, they are a team...

I think she hides behind him whilst making use of his corrupt buddies ability to fund raise for him and now for her.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:17 PM

5. You shouldn't...

N/t

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:18 PM

6. There is no way

to trust someone who changes so often you don't know what they stand for.

Don't trust any of them but especially those who cannot stand for anything.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:19 PM

7. I want the Hillary supporters to answer

 

Because they so insist on shoving her down my throat as this amazingly well qualified super genius politician .

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #7)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:45 PM

39. Getting outvoted isn't shoving her down your throat

 

It's called democracy. Sometimes people vote for a candidate you dislike. The correct response is to pick yourself up and either find a candidate that more people like, or find a way to make your preferred candidate the preferred candidate of at least a plurality of the voters.

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Response to mythology (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:01 AM

55. Getting outvoted through fair means would be one thing. The MSM - with the help of DSW and her

 

DNC - deliberately kept Sanders out of the news since he announced his candidacy for president
in May, 2015. They are still carrying on these and other dirty tricks.

Are you proud of yourselves when you can win only through these low and despicable methods?
Do you really feel that you've won at all? Do you really feel "It's called democracy?" Perhaps
you are going to deny that any of the above had ever happened at all?

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Response to mythology (Reply #39)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 02:35 PM

76. You may be right.

 

If the Democrats select Hillary as the nominee, it's a strong and clear message to liberals and progressives that the Party doesn't value our input or our issues. It's not "shoving her down our throat", it's shoving us out of your Party.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:22 AM

60. Guess what? You can vote for who your choose.

Political Science 101

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:19 PM

8. If she gets the nom you should viote for her...Trust her? Meh

 

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:19 PM

9. No one should trust her no matter what age group they fall into.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:19 PM

10. In my opinion you shouldn't....no one making under $100k should.

Last edited Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:27 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:19 PM

11. Good luck with this.

 

I've been asking repeatedly. They have no reasons. They're too busy celebrating any indication she *will* win to bother with pesky details like why she *should* won.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:19 PM

12. I can't. You shouldn't. She isn't.

But what I can tell you is to never give up hope that we can fight for better. Think of Bernie Sander's career and how he slowly, steadily gained influence.

That much is still possible.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:20 PM

13. What is your age group?

Oh the irony...

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:20 PM

14. The U.S. is not a dictatorship

Push for good Democrats in Congress and in your state & local offices to help create change. This obsession over the top of the ticket shows the tunnel-vision of too many folks.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 02:32 PM

75. I agree. Bernie doesn't seem to realize that Presidents aren't Kings.

Thanks for making that point.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:21 PM

15. You don't have to trust she's the best candidate; she's the nominee whether you like her or not.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #15)


Response to Post removed (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:39 PM

35. What makes you think it's okay to say something like that?

 

I hope your PPR comes quickly.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:35 AM

50. I don't like her

And I don't trust her. And I don't think she gives a shit about people like myself. Whether I like it or not does matter, especially in November.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:58 AM

54. In November there will be a FEW nominees

From a FEW political parties to choose from.

So, given that, how about we get back to the original question, shall we?


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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 02:28 PM

73. But she is not the nominee until the convention...

 

Whether you like it or not. Fixed it for you.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:23 PM

16. Maybe because you haven't been engaged in politics or voting long enough to really know

 

how to judge fact from fiction or to look in-depth at the issues and actual positions of the candidate instead of the cherry-picked sound bites thrown up on these boards. Maybe you should verify and then trust which ever candidate you choose?

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:26 PM

23. lol

 

i've been engaged in politics more than half my life but keep condescending

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:27 PM

25. Obama is about the same place on the political spectrum as Clinton

 

I trust Obama even when I don't agree with him.

Clinton, not so much.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:23 PM

17. Do not trust her, she is a trap. Need to look ahead for your future.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:24 PM

19. I don't think you should

They keep telling you there's no evidence of a pay to play relationship between Clinton and her donors, but it's a matter of public record that as SoS she OK'd massive arms sales to the Middle East that would not have been otherwise permitted, and the recipients all gave huge donations to her foundation. It's emblematic of how she operates. And that's before you consider the notion of providing nearly $30 billion worth of arms to the medieval kingdom of Saudi Arabia, where beheadings are completely routine and women are treated like livestock.

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Response to mooseprime (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:05 AM

56. You are wrong.

The livestock is treated better than the women.

The livestock would be rescued from a burning building... but the women would be punished for running out of it without the proper covering and male relatives.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:25 PM

20. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question about what she has accomplished,

not what positions she's held. Needless to say, I don't trust her.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:25 PM

21. I wouldn't, and I don't

she's awful for your generation. A corporatist, pro war, pretends to care about minorities and then says slimy things about them, takes all this money from Wall Street and big banks, has made NO big commitment on climate change - no.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:26 PM

22. I could tell you ....

But you wouldn't accept it. I've been around a long time. I was just like you when I worked my butt off for George McGovern. All I can tell you from my experience is you'll understand it all when you've got a few more years and elections under your belt.

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Response to calguy (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:27 PM

24. So just becasue a progressive lost 40 years ago

 

We just give up and let conservatism win. We just accept the bullshit that "America is center-right today, center-right tomorrow, center-right forever" and we just deal with it.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #24)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:35 PM

30. No, not at all

You just learn over the years that your opinion is not the only one out there. we don't get our way all the time. When the smoke clears and it gets down to one candidate on each party, you support the one who best aligns with your values and vote against the other one. In this case, your choice will Hillary or Donald. Of the two, which one do you choose? If you refuse to vote then it is the same as voting for the one you like the least.

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Response to calguy (Reply #30)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:39 PM

37. Nobody said anything about refusing to vote

 

Neo-liberal scion of the 0.01% beats Mussolini anyday. Considering that I'm a black guy with a trans Latina life partner, a Trump win literally means I have to leave the country starting November 5th. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. I want to understand why you do. Why do we have to cave to the power interests of this country? Why can't we put leftism on the ballot for once, even if it's relatively mild leftism? Look at the Tea Party, they moved the entire country rightward and the establishment called them crazy too.

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Response to calguy (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:37 PM

34. I'm 63 and I don't accept it

 

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:29 PM

26. What's your age group?

Are you easily manipulated by rabid right wingers who have been making up shit about the Clintons for the last 25 years?

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:31 PM

27. Hillary Clinton Is You-With 40 Years of Hard Earned Experience

I suggest the answer for you can be found in what she was doing in her 20-30s. She had the same youthful enthusiasm and liberalism but realized that's not enough-Social Democrats don't win National elections-neither do liberals. Barack Obama also had that same youthful enthusiasm and liberalism. He could accomplish none of his desired liberal goals without hard earned political wins because there are powerful, well financed, determined conservative forces that will fight every inch of the way. We've had a season of naivete-now its time to get down to the hardwork of moving this Country forward. I pray you never have to live through a Nixon, Reagan or Bush administration but you probably will. If nothing else you should realize the essential importance of retaking the majority in the SCOTUS

BTW I was a disappointed Clinton voter in 2008 but Barack Obama earned my respect throughout the 2008 election and I am so proud of both my votes for him today

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Response to Stallion (Reply #27)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:35 PM

31. And why don't liberals and social democrats win elections?

 

Do you really buy the "center-right nation" BS the conservatives were pushing in 2004? And trust me, I was paying attention to politics in 2004 as a teenager.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Reply #31)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:39 PM

36. I'm a History Major and Political Junkie

Adlai Stevenson
Eugene McCarthy
George McGovern
Michael Dukakis
Ted Kennedy
Bill Bradley
Paul Tsongis
John Kerry
Bernie Sanders

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Response to Stallion (Reply #36)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:42 PM

38. I asked *why* don't they win

 

Also Kerry wasn't particularly liberal, and nobody was beating Eisenhower in those years. And Ted was only running against a sitting POTUS.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:31 PM

28. If You're Young He's Why:

 

Because it's a life lesson. Rarely have I ever voted FOR a candidate I really believed in. You usually vote against the lessor of to evils. President Trump or Cruz would be a MILLION TIMES WORSE than President Clinton! Would you want those clows picking potentially 3 Supreme Court Justices?

However, Bernie Sanders has tapped into th e growing mood that people are tired of the Wall Street - Washington Axis of Greed. Get active and help force small changes.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:34 PM

29. She's not the best candidate for progressive change, but ...

 

...

I think as a progressive you have to factor in the fact that she's winning the black vote in a big way. Clearly, whether you agree or not, they trust her more than they trust Bernie. Given that Hillary has considerable support among the oppressed groups, it's at least worth asking yourself if there's something you are missing.

Plus, it's worth asking why a country like ours has not yet had a woman president? Is it possible that there is ingrained sexism in our culture? Is it possible that the election of woman breaks the glass ceiling in a way that will change the country for the better for women and little girls? Electing a woman is progressive in itself.

Plus, feminist psychological theory argues that women and minorities must develop a different set of skills than white men. When a white man walks into a room, everyone listens. That's not true for most other groups. For a woman to get ahead in our culture, even in this day and age, she has to be quite exceptional. Look how few women are in positions of power. If Hillary becomes president, it's likely she'll be able to accomplish a lot simply because it takes a lot of intelligence to overcome such ingrained barriers.

Lastly, Hillary was rated the 11th most liberal Senator. Her record is not nearly as progressive as Bernie's, but it's an overall good record. Bernie represented perhaps the most liberal state in the nation, so seldom had to compromise -- but he did compromise on issues such as gun rights and the stealth bomber. If he was a senator from a more conservative state, he probably would have had to compromise more. Part of Hillary's history is that she represented constituents who were not as liberal as Bernie's. If the millennials end up helping Hillary get elected, she will do an okay job representing them. After all, she's a politician.

I say all this as someone who voted for Bernie. I have always liked Hillary, but I agree Bernie is the better person because he's been so consistent and so progressive throughout his life. But, that doesn't mean Hillary isn't progressive, just that she is less progressive than Bernie.

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Response to Onlooker (Reply #29)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:53 PM

40. African Americans don't know much about Bernie; Hillary & Bill have

been in the national spotlight for decades.

Bernie was ignored by the media for most of the campaign.

If he'd been able to get his message out earlier, he'd be much better positioned to get African American votes now.

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #40)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 04:22 AM

46. What ????????

 

What in the world do you mean that African Americans don't know much about Bernie? They know as much as anyone else. Why wouldn't they? Why would they know less than millennials and others that back Bernie? He's been getting his message out very effectively. If he hadn't been, then he wouldn't be where he is today. I think blacks simply don't see things as much through an economic lens as Bernie does. They see racism as separate from economic discrimination. Bernie has pretty consistently seen racism as a byproduct of economic inequities. A lot of minorities, not just blacks, disagree. But to imply that African Americans know less than others about Bernie is just the kind of tone that alienates people from him.

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Response to Onlooker (Reply #46)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:18 PM

70. I talk to my relatives, who are African American, who are not on the internet & don't watch

cable or airwaves political news--and they tell me they are supporting Hillary because they know her and they don't really know him.

A lot of the millennials who are embracing Bernie ARE on social media on the internet. They have been hearing Bernie's message. And they don't know the Clintons from the '90s because they didn't live through that period (as voting adults).

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #70)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:56 PM

72. Yeah, so some people know Bernie ...

 

... and others know Hillary. There are good reasons why people support Hillary Clinton. I mean, politics is about framing the opponent in the worst light, so Bernie highlights Hillary's Wall Street speeches, her Iraq vote, and her early opposition to gay marriage. Bernie's opponents responded by highlighting Bernie's support fr gun rights, his support for the stealth bomber, and his support of the Minutemen. Bernie is certainly to the left of Hillary, but Hillary did not win the trust and support of so many of the most oppressed in our society because they are ignorant. She did a lot of good things, not as many as Bernie, but still a lot.

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Response to Onlooker (Reply #29)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:56 PM

44. the argument that u should vote for a woman BECAUSE she is a woman

is an absolute non-starter.

You should vote for a candidate because you agree with their positions and you have faith in their character.

Otherwise, why not vote for Carly Fiorina? Or Sarah Palin? Or Michele Bachmann?

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #44)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 04:29 AM

48. A case could be made ...

 

... I think there are a number of feminists would consider supporting a woman candidate against a male candidate, but the problem with the conservative women you cite is that they do not believe in equal rights for women, so it would be self-defeating to support them. I think Hillary had quite a few Republican women supporting her when she ran against Obama, and not because Hillary's right wing. I think if Hillary wins the nomination this time around, a number of Republican women will back her. Equality is a difficult and complex struggle. I mean, MLK had to compromise with LBJ, people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton learned to work with the Democratic establishment, Bernie Sanders (a minority as a socialist) caucuses with the Democrats, Barney Frank and Gerry Studds worked with homophobes. There may be issues more important to you, but for many the equal rights of women is the single most important issue, just as economic justice is most important for Bernie.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:35 PM

32. No.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:37 PM

33. You shouldn't

What I don't understand is why you trusted Bernie.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:54 PM

41. Don't! Grow your own leader, and save us from the pending shitstorm

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:55 PM

42. You shouldn't.

 

That's the reality that Hillary supporters are gloating to hide their apprehension of...we're the future of the party and if we hold strong, they're going to eventually have to capitulate to us over the next 4-8 years or be marginalized entirely. They want us to buy in on Clinton and surrender that reality.

We need to stand strong and await the day we get to fully dictate the direction of the Democratic party to them. Look to the lesson of 1968...the GOP had a revolution in its primary (except Goldwater pulled off the nomination), the establishment hedged and sat on the sideline to allow that nominee to lose...but because the revolutionaries never surrendered, in 1976 they nearly pulled off the upset and by 1980, the stage was set for them to annihilate the GOP establishment which was fully-dead by 1984.

I'm not saying "Don't vote for Clinton" I am saying "Don't drink the Koolaid. This party is ours if we continue to take it from them by revolution and force." They're standing on the avalanche yelling "We won!" as it rolls down the hill towards their demise in a hard-landing. We're standing on the bedrock solid under our feet...they may (it's hardly certain) have the 2016 nomination, but we have the future of the party.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 10:56 PM

43. I'm in the 65 age group and I trust her not at all.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:18 PM

45. Anyone of any age who trusts Hillary is a little nutty in one way or another

 

On the rare occasions she tells the truth, it's usually to bash liberals and liberal ideas.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:33 AM

49. She will be the nominee

Many of you are probably in college...the right will continue to make it tough on you with their version of student loans...you think it is bad now...you should have seen it before Obama took the program from the banks...also...Bill gave us Ginsberg...we have three justices maybe four...who will either leave or die ...if a rightie appoints them...your age group might as well give up voting for say 20 years. Also, Hillary is attacked non-stop by the right...she is really a fine person.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #49)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:40 AM

51. "She will be the nominee"

If so, she will lose the GE. No one wants to vote for career criminal.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #49)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:45 AM

53. This doesn't answer the original question

 

And instead just tries to scare voters into accepting her.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 10:42 AM

52. I'm not going to say anything about Hillary. I'll say that I hope you stay engaged with politics

and build the Democratic Party you want.

Your age group is the party's future. It won't be long before you are the Democratic Party's leaders.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:07 AM

57. If it makes you feel better lots of people in my age group don't trust her either.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:19 AM

59. No trust involved. Just no Trump.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:24 AM

61. Why would you trust someone you don't know? I don't get it.

 

Help move her more to the left. Isn't that what really matters?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:25 AM

62. At best, four more years of things not getting (much) worse.

I do believe that you should not have high expectations for a Clinton administration. I fully expect someone like Jamie Dimon to be named Secretary of the Treasury and someone like Kissinger (but not, because he's too old) to be Secretary of State. In other words, no one progressive at all. Maybe some corporate retread for EPA and Interior, as well.

We've been lied to for decades. Things will not be getting better, probably ever. Not with the system we have, not with the candidates we're allowed to choose from. And certainly not from the Democratic Party. We were sold old years ago, mostly by Bill Clinton and other Third Way types. In order to "win", they (the Party, the DLC) sold out every single progressive principle. So win or lose elections, the people still lose.

I think this is the lesson she needs to learn, that people are fed up with being lied to, fed up with being on the losing end. If she is smart (and I think she is), she will truly heed this lesson and do something besides talk a good game. But in my (very cynical) heart, I think we are in for more of the same. How much of that can people take before they explode?

If Clinton beats Trump, we will have dodged a bullet, but it will also just put off the reckoning for a little while. But there will be one, sooner or later. I expect younger generations will bear the brunt. People of my generation will just have to eat cat food while we wait for sea level rise to drown us in our beds.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:36 AM

63. It's not about the person.

It's about the party. Democrats or Republicans. Pick one.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 11:48 AM

64. Trust her to what?

Which policies do you care about? She has a long track record and can be trusted to act as she has in the past. Whether or not that is relevant to your particular set of issues relative to her opponant is something you should decide for yourself.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 12:29 PM

66. Because she know what it is like to lose

I lived in Arkansas from 1976-1984 so my knowledge of the Clintons goes back further than most peoples. She was taking all kinds of shit even back then...too liberal, a Yankee, did not change her name when she married Bill. In fact, after winning the Governor's office in 1978, Bill lost it in 1980 and Hillary keeping her maiden name was a big issue. So she legally took Bill's name, which played a role in his win in the 1982 race. But there are probably those on DU who consider her changing her name as at total sellout and not at all progressive. Even though it can be argued that had she not have done so, he would not have been re-elected and thus never served as President.

Anyway, she was blasted by the republicans and the media the entire time Bill was Governor. Then not long after he was elected President he placed her in charge of healthcare reform. And she came up with a plan that was way more progressive than the ACA. Everyone would have been covered and for the low income it would have been free. Pretty much what everyone here wants. And guess what? It crashed and burned. With an all Democratic congress. Hillary did what all the progressives on this site want, she did not compromised, pushed for the perfect solution and got NOTHING. So yeah, she learned it is better to compromise and get some of what you want that live on principle and get nothings. Most of us learn that lesson as we age.

She was the original punching bag of Right Wing talk radio which was reaching the height of it influence. I know that because at the time I was a republican and listened to it. And she has been trashed by them ever sense in the most mean and tasteless way. So much so that those talking points oozed into the general consensus influencing even many of our progressive friends. That's 40 years of taking rightwing shit. It is truly unprecedented.

I only recently joined DU and some of the posts about Hillary make me double check that I am not on a rightwing site. Hillary is not perfect, but she has spent her life working on issues which affect women and children. And I again add, she is the only public figure who in the past pushed a truly progressive healthcare plan.

I know feelings are running high. I like both Democratic candidates and will vote for either of them in the GE. Those of you who have stated you will not vote for Hillary in the GE need to be prepared to do 2 things. First, cancel you DU membership as you will be in violation of the Terms of Service. And second, several month into a Trump presidency when he is acting like the dictator he clearly is, keep your pie hole shut and do not complain. Because you will be part of the reason he is in office.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #66)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 12:33 PM

67. Great post and welcome./nt

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #66)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 12:34 PM

68. This is the best response.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 12:37 PM

69. My 2 millennials will vote for Jill Stein if it's not Bernie

 

as will their friends and the ones in my campaign office.

Anecdotal I know but they don't trust HRC especially on climate change. She's a dinosaur in that area and they feel the issue can't wait.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:22 PM

71. Are You Voting

for a spouse or a president? Don't trust any politician. They are people who are successful at winning popularity contests. Vote for the person you judge as having the best chance, of the people in the race, of governing in the way you think the country should be governed. Don't expect any of them to come anywhere near the way you would want things done, but some will come closer than others some of the time.

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Response to forjusticethunders (Original post)

Wed Mar 16, 2016, 02:31 PM

74. Because she is trustworthy.

She has proven it over and over and over and over again.

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