To the Hillary supporter who is pulling up old Bernie posts -

[FourScore]

You are pulling up old Bernie posts that showed Bernie polling well or of Hillary's campaign manager warning her of potential losses today - and you are posting responses like "She won all five states."

Do you have any idea how utterly distasteful and short-sighted that is?

Let me say this: Hillary will probably win the nomination. I'm not positive, though, that she will win the general election; mainly because the DNC, the MSM and the bulk of the democratic party have rammed their establishment candidate down our throats from the beginning. This primary was never fair. Bernie received the least amount of air time than any other candidate. From the beginning, he was subjected to questions like "Will you support Hillary when she becomes the nominee?" Or "Did you enter the race to bring Hillary further to the left?" It was all about Hillary. I guess you have no idea what that feels like, or you wouldn't gloat like you are doing.

We believe in Bernie and his revolution. We were the underdogs and knew we would probably never win this thing. We threw $27.00 a month at him, and felt our hearts soar as his crowds swelled to enormous sizes. We love our candidate.

But, let me be clear. Hillary will not win without our support. EVERYONE I KNOW WHO SUPPORTS BERNIE, just one month ago, was saying that they would support Bernie or Hillary in the general. Now, not one single Bernie supporter I know says that anymore. They all feel so betrayed by their party, by the establishment, and by the media. Do you understand what this means?

It is not necessary to pull up old posts and gloat. You were never the underdog. All you are doing, is supporting Trump, because you are ensuring that not one of us supporting Bernie will want to go vote for Hillary in the general election. You need to stop.

ON EDIT: I am very disheartened by the tone of the Hillary supporters in this thread. There is cherry-picking at my post instead of reading the whole thing in it's entirety. There is "well Bernie supporters did it too" tit-for-tat childishness. There is defensiveness. But what there really isn't is any kind of reconciliation.

[grasswire]

1. the thing is this, and it is tragic

Should Hillary win the GE, she will be on her own, with no reservoir of good will in the Democratic base. Impeachment papers will be filed on Inauguration Day by Republicans. Criminal investigations will be nipping at her heels. Obstructionism will be at a new high, unless she negotiates away EVERY shred of traditional Democratic values.

The unrest in the populace will not be soothed. Trumpsters will be even more violent and unrelenting. Students and Millenials will, feeling betrayed by their countryment, be in the streets. The problems we have now will be magnified.

And millions of Democrats who are fed up with the lies and corruption of the Clintons will just not be available to defend her or support her.

[senz]

10. Classic example of a Pyrrhic victory.

[MADem]

91. No, not really. Not even close. nt

[vdogg]

74. Considering that she has a substantial lead in the popular vote

I would say that reservoir of goodwill remains full and intact.

[tk2kewl]

79. Maybe a whole new progressive organization can be formed to defend her...

and then afterwards she can throw them under the bus...

it'll be like deja vu all over again

yeah... i wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't get much help

[KittyWampus]

97. I don't think you understand who and what the "Democratic Base" is.

The Democratic Base is choosing her over Sanders by fairly large margins.

[zappaman]

2. Same thing happened when Bernie pulled the upset in Michigan...

Except vice versa.
Did you complain about that as well?

[FourScore]

8. I did not see old posts being pulled up. We were ecstatic, of course.

Tonight, I do not mind Hillary supporters who are ecstatic today. That is normal.

The grave dancing is further alienating us though. One Hillary supporter even said in a different thread that we are not needed anymore. Wow.

And don't forget - Hillary was never the underdog in this race.

[zappaman]

11. Plenty of old posts were pulled up.

Plenty.

[FourScore]

13. So that justifies it now? Or what's your point? n/t

[zappaman]

17. No, I was wondering if you had a problem with Sanders supporters doing it.

Or just when Clinton supporters do?

[FourScore]

24. I don't think anyone should do it.

Actually, I have posted nice things about Hillary in the Hillary group. I prefaced them by admitting I was a Bernie supporter, but they were still well-received.

I think the divisiveness is so destructive. The Hillary crowd is pushing the Bernie crowd's face in the mud right now, and I really don't think it's smart. Or in good taste.

We never had the support your candidate had - not from the party, the DNC, the MSM. Of course you're winning. Now the winner is beating down the loser. Wow. At some point, Hillary is going to need as much support as she can get.

[zappaman]

30. "your candidate had"

I don't have a candidate and can't vote in a primary until June.
We agree it's in poor form then for either side to do it.

[Xipe Totec]

33. So, given a choice, you'd rather get even than win. Got it. nt

[Scootaloo]

19. No, in fact they were not.

[zappaman]

27. "Fact"

You're funny.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511441538#post26

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511433734#post13

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511435055#post26

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511434114#post16

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511433664#post21

And many more...in fact.

[Scootaloo]

34. Ah, I see we have a very different definition of "old"

'Cause all your examples are within a day of the OP's. often qirh frequent bumps otherwise.

Okay though. if that's what you want to go with.

[zappaman]

37. I'll let you get back to it.

[Scootaloo]

41. Nah, just noting we have different takes on what "old post" means

[JDPriestly]

54. I must have missed that. Could you please provide a link to a post pulling up old posts?

[leftynyc]

70. I had a post pulled up that merely

showed Hillary winning a poll in MI - the poster then posted those idiotic laughing emoticons - this was 5 days after I posted the poll results. Where were you? Celebrating Hillary's big win last night is NOT grave dancing. Seems you think it's bad form to merely celebrate her victories. That's entirely your problem.

[vdogg]

75. Was it the bouncing green ones?

I hate those fucking things.

[MADem]

3. It's probably not a good move to threaten to take your ball and go home like that.

Usually, after things settle out, most people, foot-dragging notwithstanding, will see that there's a clear choice in the general, and the Democratic candidate shares most of our views.

Don't let the behavior of one person--whoever that might be (and I don't care, really, who it is) define you. Or cause you to do something you wouldn't otherwise do.

Principles are what's important--the future of the Supreme Court is what's important--not someone behaving in a teasing manner on the internet. That HIDE button isn't a bad device.

My favorite has lost on occasion. You just have to deal with it.

[JonLeibowitz]

6. You must have misread the OP.

The OP did not threaten to take his ball and go home. The OP was saying that it may have that effect on some. And the OP is right.

[MADem]

21. This sounds pretty dire to me. It's a threat, if not a promise.

But, let me be clear. Hillary will not win without our support. EVERYONE I KNOW WHO SUPPORTS BERNIE, just one month ago, was saying that they would support Bernie or Hillary in the general. Now, now one single Bernie supporter I know says that anymore. They all feel so betrayed by their party, by the establishment, and by the media. Do you understand what this means?

I'm pretty sure that second "now" in the 2nd to last sentence is a misspelled NOT.

[JonLeibowitz]

26. That's not a threat, it is a statement of reality.

Whether the OP disagrees with those people or not has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. It isn't a threat, but it is indeed a dire situation (for the Democratic party, that is).

[MADem]

36. I'll invite your attention to post thirty five.

As I said there, in essence, that has not been my reality at all. Not even remotely.

[FourScore]

28. Thanks for catching the typo. But you're still not getting the content. n/t

[MADem]

35. Your content simply doesn't match my reality.

I don't know a single Sanders supporter who won't vote for the Democratic nominee. I'm sure these "independent" types who have been popularly described as "bros" exist, but I don't know any of them IRL.

Not a single, solitary soul.

Every single one-- "liberal" or "progressive" or even "moderate" -- of the supporters of Bernie Sanders that I know (and I know a fair number of them) will, after grumbling a bit, vote for the nominee of the DEMOCRATIC Party. They won't huff over to Jill Stein, they won't pull the lever for Trump, they won't stay home, pissed off, because of some stupid, stranger scribbled shit they read online.

I don't hang around with people who would take such a petty tack.

I have absolutely no understanding of people who would change their principles because someone--a complete stranger, maybe even a troll-- was mean to them on the doggone internet. People I know will vote for the best candidate on offer who can deliver most of the agenda items they see as important, and who can WIN.

[FourScore]

38. Again, I did not say Bernie supporters do not want to support Hillary because of a post at DU.

I said it's because of how the DNC, the MSM and the establishment dems ran a one-sided campaign. Most of the dems I know don't even post on DU.

I did say, it doesn't help when you then rub it in our faces here on DU.

Stop misinterpreting my OP!!!

[MADem]

43. It doesn't matter if it's DU or the DNC. Everyone I know has core PRINCIPLES.

They KNOW that a President Trump or a President Cruz or a President Kasich would screw this country over for a generation or more. They know President Clinton shares many of their goals and values.

They see the forest, AND the trees. No one I know would ever even contemplate not supporting the Democratic nominee, regardless of what "The DNC" or the "MSM" has to say.

I really do think MOST people feel this way, if they stop and think about it for a bit.

I'm not rubbing anything in your face. It is a fact (by that math that we get mocked about when we mention it) that Sanders' path to the nomination has been dealt a severe blow this evening. There will come a point in time when this will be realized, all be resolved and the party can and will unite behind a candidate, who is looking increasingly likely to be SECSTATE Clinton.

[JonLeibowitz]

45. people with an independent mind are now "bros"

Unrec.

The Bernie Bros meme is so disgusting.

[MADem]

47. Read more carefully. Go on, then.

I'm sure these "independent" types who have been popularly described as "bros" exist, but I don't know any of them IRL.

Do you?

[JonLeibowitz]

52. No it is a myth.

The men I know who support Sanders are upstanding citizens who give the thought of democracy serious thought.

None of them are voting for Clinton in the general though. Nothing I could do to convince them either, because honestly their reasons are sound.

[MADem]

96. If you have never seen it, it cannot have happened, then. Things you have not

experienced, personally, are "myths."

OK. I don't grasp or buy off on your logic, but by your insistence I see there's no point at all in continuing this discussion.

[lbrtbell]

57. Allow me to introduce you to several

My mother, several friends, and I will vote straight-ticket Democratic...except for Hillary. We live in a state so red, that our votes for HRC wouldn't count anyway, so we have the "luxury" of not voting for any Presidential candidate, knowing that any vote for a Dem would never count.

Normally, this is not a luxury--living in a red state sucks--but this time out, we can enjoy not having to hold our noses and vote for a corporate Dem. We will, of course, vote for EVERY other Dem downticket, so spare us the "You're not a real Democrat" lies.

And if you'd go to other forums, other than just the ones where HRC is supported, you'll find that many people are not going to vote for her, because of the tactics used by her and the DNC to kill Sanders' support from the start.

It's not about taking your ball and going home. It's about not wanting to cast a vote that you'll regret for the next four years, as the person you voted for continues Bill Clinton's decimation of New Deal accomplishments.

I'm a fourth-generation FDR Democrat, I supported Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996--hell, I even volunteered for Mondale--but I've had enough.

That's reality. Sorry that "your reality" doesn't match it, but there are thousands of us out here, who are tired of being called "petty" just because we have principles that don't line up with those of Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

[tex-wyo-dem]

42. There's nothing wrong with what the OP wrote...

It is reality.

many of people I know (myself included), Bernie supporter or not, are just not that enthusiastic about Hillary. She was my last choice in 2008, and I like her even less in 2016. My basic problem with her is trust...I just can't, as hard as I try, convince myself that she really means anything she says, especially now that she's parroting Bernie 90% of the time.

Her greatest asset right now is Trump, because ppl are scared to death of him and think of her (wrongly) as the best chance to defeat him.

You can quote me...if she ever becomes POTUS, all this feel good progressive talk she's promoting now will vanish into the ether and we will be stuck with a conserva-dem Neo- liberal eager to sell away our hard fought progressive policies for some rethug votes in congress.

[MADem]

44. My post is not about "right" and "wrong." It's really about political reality. nt

[FourScore]

48. MADem is on her own mission.

Thanks for trying though. I think you are absolutely spot-on right.

[treestar]

80. Although "everyone I know" is not a very accurate

Although "everyone I know" is not a very accurate poll of what is going on for real

[MADem]

82. Yes--anecdotal evidence is just that. People tend to hang around with people who will confirm

their own biases. Everyone I know will vote for the winner of the nomination. No one I know would think of taking their ball and going home--that's just silly.

Sanders doesn't have the support to rack up the huge victories he needs to prevail. And he most certainly doesn't have that wind at his back.

I just can't see him prevailing.

[MADem]

89. If "Many will go to Trump if Clinton is nominated" then those "many" don't belong here.

You've read the TOS, "PROGRESSIVE MAN?"

You might want to skim it again. It's NEVER OK to support wingnuts here.

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. It never seems to occur to Bernie supporters

that spewing all their noxious bullshit on a lovely, committed, hard-working Democrat like Hillary Clinton might possibly, uh, alienate some of her supporters should Sanders win the nod. You always hear this "Oh, don't alienate Sanders voters" with never the slightest concern about alienating Clinton voters! Well, I suppose I can see it: Clinton voters aren't posting thread after thread threatening not to vote for the Democratic nominee. Oh, and right, Clinton voters have "authoritarian personalities," so unlike the Sanders Revolutionary Free-Spirits, will do whatever the Party says, regardless of the piles of shit heaped on a woman they deeply respect. Fine.

But the lack of self-awareness is rather striking. Sanders voters have spent the last four months calling Hillary Clinton a liar, a murderer, a killer of children, an idiot, mentally ill, corrupt, a bribe-taker, a traitor, and a self-involved, calculating (w)itch. What makes you think that her supporters would vote for your fucking candidate in November?

[NYC Liberal]

9. We are supposed to shut up and take our candidate being called

some of the most profane, vile names I've ever seen on this website in my over 10 years here.

But someone says something mildly mean about their candidate, and they threaten to take their ball and go home -- and screw everyone else.

Your post is spot on.

[jillan]

20. Oh man. Go get some fresh air.

[Colorado Liberal]

22. The "lack of self-awareness" seems to be contagious

And it never seems to occur to Hillary supporters that painting all of Bernie's supporters with such a broad brush might do the very same thing. I'm not going to "take my ball and go home" (as another ever so gracious Hillary supporter put it), but if I don't volunteer for Hillary in the general, it won't be because of her as a candidate - it will be because I don't like spending time with people who appear to hold me in contempt for supporting another candidate in the primary.

From where I sit (and admittedly I am not a particularly active poster, but I've been around since 2006), there's PLENTY of "noxious bullshit" coming from all sides...

[MADem]

29. Indeed--those dire threats could very well be a two-way street.

I think they rely on our good nature and mature vision of what's really important. Principles over personalities, and all that.

I will agree that I've never--EVER--seen so many offensive comments directed at a candidate. I suspect that her gender played a role, even though people might not want to admit that. Women are judged more harshly, given less wiggle room, excessive attention is paid to their appearance, they have to be twice as good to get half the credit, etc.

[KitSileya]

40. In another thread where I am doing "false victimhood"

because I enumerated some of the bullying tactics of the BS supporters, I also have posters mocking me for pointing out that calling Hillary a sleazy liar is not refuting my claim. Apparently we should just accept that Clinton and sleazy are synonyms, shut up, and vote for Bernie.

The irony would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

[MADem]

90. This is going to end here, and soon--and yesterday was a giant step closer to the day! nt

[Hekate]

46. You left out brain damaged. And her husband is senile.

Yeah, that really warms the heart.

[riversedge]

51. sure is a lot of self-righteous pity tonight

[NYC Liberal]

5. "Hillary will not win without our support"

"you are ensuring that not one of us supporting Bernie will want to go vote for Hillary in the general election."

If you're admitting to basing your vote for President on what some anonymous posters on an Internet message board do, then I am at a loss for words.

Oh and by the way, all of the Sanders supporters I know and am friends with are 100% Democrats who have made it clear that they will be gladly voting for the Democratic nominee in November, whether it's Sanders or Clinton.

[FourScore]

12. I think you missed the point.

I wrote: "EVERYONE I KNOW WHO SUPPORTS BERNIE, just one month ago, was saying that they would support Bernie or Hillary in the general. Now, now one single Bernie supporter I know says that anymore. They all feel so betrayed by their party, by the establishment, and by the media."

I'm just saying the gloating here at DU is making it worse.

[NYC Liberal]

14. Oh I got the point.

[Ron Green]

7. I think for the Hillary people, it's really just about winning.

They don't care about reversing or even slowing the death spiral. They don't see a survivable future that requires a wrenching and courageous move. They just want to win.

[senz]

15. That's them in a nutshell.

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. Win the battle and lose the war.....guess they don't care about that. All I know is I'm not

NOT sticking around to endure 4/8 yrs of a Trump reign of terror. Its adios for me, I will either be in the frozen north, eh or on the other side of that wall he plans on building.

[BernieforPres2016]

83. They see a survivable future

They think we have a pretty good economy right now. President Obama just told us all a day or two ago that things are pretty darn good right now. They are drinking the koolaid.

[dana_b]

16. ignore or trash thread

they're your friends.

[jillan]

18. Hillary talked tonite about pulling the country together & there is no room for vitriol.

How about taking her message to heart?

[jfern]

32. Is she going to take her own advice and tell David Brock to fuck off?

[NBachers]

23. You know, I'm working hard to be understanding, sympathetic, and uniting here tonight.

But the fact is that if Sanders had run the table tonight, his supporters would be hunting down Clinton supporters and tarring and feathering them.

I see a lot more Big Picture Unity posts by Clinton people here tonight than I see snark. Or just pure joy and thankfulness for their candidate. Nowhere do I see the level of abuse and gloating that would be rampant here from the H-H8ers if Sanders had hit the jackpot.

Tarred, feathered, and run out of DU on a rail.

[Hekate]

49. Sad but true

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. "Truth crushed to earth will rise again."

[msongs]

25. so you and yours are not voting for hillary. we get that already. nt

[jfern]

31. The Hillary campaign has been about burning bridges

Claiming Bernie'ss supporters are all racist and sexist white males. Bullshit like that. Bernie has been running an inclusive campaign.

[bbgrunt]

39. I guess it's time to point out the lack of class that some Hillary supporters

exhibit. Would that not make them like "berniebros"?

[delrem]

50. These are the people who invented the term "Bernibro".

I can't see any reason why such people could rely on that vote.
When bridges are burned, they aren't rebuilt in a day, like an evolved HRC position.
Like: fall in line, now!

[Waiting For Everyman]

53. I saw that -- it's dopey, more than depressing or annoying to me.

Bernie is where I expected him to be in the delegate count tonight. I don't need the psychological candy of a win check-box by his name. It's nice, but no big deal. Neck and neck where it needs to be, will do just fine for now.

Their gloating means less than nothing to me. Besides, who gloats last gloats best and I highly doubt that will be the Hillary camp. If by hook and by crook she were to win, I doubt that she'd remain un-Watergated to the end of the 1st term. In case some don't know, Nixon got re-elected in the middle of the Watergate articles, and he and Agnew (his VP) ended up taking premature choppers out of the White House.

So, I'm donating and phone banking just as I had planned to be doing later today. I like the Brits' approach to life, "keep calm and carry on".

Thanks for an excellent post though, everything you wrote is right on.

[Cassiopeia]

55. They NEED us

and I have never felt less wanted by my party.

FL voter here. You fucking NEED me.

[cantbeserious]

60. This Citizen Voted For A Clinton Twice - Never Again

eom

[LibDemAlways]

64. They don't want you right now. They are so delusional they

think they can win without you, thus the smug arrogance you see here. By November, however, when Hillary's numbers are down thanks to the relentless onslaught she'll be facing, they'll be begging for your vote, whispering sweet nothings and making a bunch of empty promises. It will be interesting to see just how many Bernie voters they can sweet talk into casting a ballot for four more years of the status quo.

[Lazy Daisy]

56. Hillary supporters got a win tonight

But it really should scare the shit out of them. The margins aren't so good.

I've said it before and I'll say it again here. Let them act a fool. Let them destroy their own. Once the primaries are over they all get put on ignore. Don't want to hear the pandering and pleading they need our votes now.

I had my vote today to make my country a better place, and I'll have my vote in November to make a country a better place.

Fire cleanses all, sometimes you have to walk through it.

[LibDemAlways]

58. You would think that Hillary won all contests tonight by

landslides. I especially don't appreciate the "this is over" tone because I live in the most populous state, California, and our primary isn't until June. I will vote for Bernie as will millions of others. I don't know anyone who plans to vote for Hillary. I predict Bernie will sweep the west coast.

Hillary supporters on this board are some of the most smug, entitled people I've ever had the misfortune of encountering. I've put quite a few on ignore because the gloating raises my blood pressure. Tonight I read a post written by a delusional person who indicated that "the great Democratic Party" would sweep to victory in November. This under the "leadership" of DWS, a sure-fire election loser? Dream on.

Yep, the Hillary supporters do themselves no favors, and all of the arrogance displayed here will, if karma comes calling, one day return to bite them in the ass.

[cantbeserious]

59. Agreed Completely

eom

[chwaliszewski]

61. A-Freakin-Men, Fellow Berner

There is nothing I can add to your heartfelt post except for I know how you feel. My wife told me tonight (I'm at work) that she started crying after watching the results. I informed her that if Bernie hasn't given up yet, why should we? I just donated another $27. Fight the good fight, and this is a good one.

[Bad Dog]

62. Nobody has anything to feel smug about.

Trump's march onwards is terrifying. If he doesn't win in November I'll be feeling relieved. This man is a real danger, and some of you are so tied up with your own candidate you seem to forget that.

[Skittles]

63. BAD DOG NAILS IT

BOTH "SIDES" HERE HAVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY SICKENING

[Bad Dog]

69. Yes.

If one thing can be blamed for Sanders losing support I would say it was the behaviour of some of his "supporters." I think he's a really decent bloke and it's a shame his genuine supporters couldn't get their voices heard.

[Skittles]

73. I remember seeing a bumpersticker

I LOVE JESUS; HIS FANS, NOT SO MUCH

yes indeed

[Bad Dog]

78. That's a really good analogy.

[steve2470]

65. yep you nailed it

No Republican candidate has ever scared me like Trump. He has to be stopped, and that means voting for the Democrat, whoever that is.

[Bad Dog]

68. Thank you.

I'm an outsider, I don't have a vote. As a Briton I've noticed that Democrat presidencies are fairly benign, Bill Clinton even helped with the NI peace process. Republican presidencies haven't. Reagan used our bases to bomb Libya, and Dubya's disastrous presidency gave us illegal wars, meltdown in the ME and the rise of IS.

That's not to mention what he did domestically which doesn't affect us.

Some anti Clintons are talking about where she'll bomb first. I don't think it's likely to happen but one thing is for certain, she's not going to bomb Mexico.

[leftynyc]

71. I'd be happy for you to point out

ANY attempt at reconciliation from ANY of the Bernie supporters. You seem to only be blaming one side for the rancor. That's not an honest look at the reality.

[GreydeeThos]

72. Bernie Sanders supporters can talk trash, but cannont be called on it later?

Is that what you are trying to say?

When the Bernie Sanders people post statements that would be cheered on the (late) FreeRepublic, and get a pass it is AOKAY. When a Democrat comes back after the fact and points out the Bernie prognostications were just trash talkin' BS, it is a crime.

Do you have any idea how utterly distasteful and short-sighted that has been reading anti-Hillary posts on this board?

Then out comes the threat of not voting for the Democratic candidate in the General Election.

Unbelievable.

[djean111]

76. Well, I can't reconcile on war and fracking and the TPP, for starters.

So none of the trash talk or demands for loyalty pledges even really touches me.
So, there's that.

[woodsprite]

77. She may have won, but she has to share. n/t

[grossproffit]

81. Clinton and her supporters have been treated like shit on this forum.

It's obvious that some people here are very, very selective readers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. "Truth crushed to earth will rise again."

[SidDithers]

86. +1...nt

Sid

[polly7]

94. If stating FACTS is being 'treated like shit' then I feel sorry for you once the repugs

start in on her. 'This forum' is just that ...... a message board. Clinton has harmed millions of people in real life - in horrible ways that will never be brought up publicly in the MSM because the repugs have the same foreign policy. The other internal issues being brought up here that make so many angry are going to be brought up over and over in the MSM - then who will you blame for being so mean?

[oasis]

88. "They would support Bernie or Hillary in the general" one month ago.

But now that Bernie's hasn't a chance of winning, fuggedaboudit.!

[Capt. Obvious]

92. Who is doing that?

[Lizzie Poppet]

93. A bunch of nasty, gloating children.

I've been driven away from my previous position of grudgingly voting for Hillary in November (albeit only if my state is in play) by the behavior of her supporters, culminating in last night's (and this morning's) effusion of asshattery. And yes, I'll be a right rhymes-with-witch about it on November 8th when the inevitable happens.