A different point of view.

[LAS14]

I posted the following in response to a couple of Bernie vs Hillary back and forths. I'm hoping lots of you will see this and recommend or reply to show ourselves that we're better than Republicans.

This yelling back and forth sounds like the Republicans. For my part I'm grateful for the Sanders campaign. First it honed Hillary's message, and, yes, pulled it farther left. That's a good thing. Then it gave the Democrats some attention in spite of the Republican debacle. Where would we be if she was basically unopposed? We're a stronger party. I look forward to a rousing presence by Bernie and his supporters at the convention, continuing to make his case for a strong stand against the widening income gap. Hopefully where we demonstrate what it can be like when people in the same party disagree but come together to keep Trump out of the White House.

las

P.S. This post was locked in General Discussion, the reason being it should be posted here. A few weeks ago I had the reverse happen to me. It seemed that both had the same mix of mentioning the two Democrats, trump, and the convention. I hope the admin here doesn't lock it.

[TCJ70]

1. We are not a stronger party for what's happening here...

...Hillary has basically been shape-shifting since things started (pulling to the left as you put it) and denigrating a consistent and decent person along the way. The contrast between how the two ran their campaigns couldn't be more clear...and sad. The fact that so many in the upper ranks got behind her without even considering the alternative says a lot about what the party really thinks about Bernie's positions.

[blm]

2. I still voted for Sanders here in NC….

but, your sincerely made point does matter, especially for us GOTV activists who will be working our butts off come fall.

[LAS14]

9. Thanks for assuming...

... I was sincere instead of putting it all in a bad light. Thanks for me, but also thanks for DemocraticUnderground. Wouldn't it be more productive if we just assumed people meant what they said?

[blm]

14. Your sincerity should be apparent to all.

Sometimes people just glance at a post with fully absorbing it.

[Hoyt]

3. I agree with you, and am hopeful Clinton surprises Sanders supporters her first term.

As someone else said, if she doesn't -- primary the heck out of her.

[Mother Of Four]

4. Happily kicking this. nt

[peacebird]

5. Hillary hasn't been actually pulled left. She has mouthed Bernie's positions to try to fool people

She will revert to her hard right views so fast you will get whiplash if she gets the nomination.

Bernie actually says what he believes and will work for We, The People. The same can't be said of Hillary. She will work to protect those that gave her huge donations - WallStreet, the too big to fail, pharma, monsanto, the fracking industry....

[LAS14]

6. A response to Merrily

You posted the quote below in the GD version of this thread. But it was locked before I could reply. Here's my response.

I'll edit my post to make it very, very clear that I expect Bernie supporters to continue to make their case for his positions when they arrive at the convention.

"Oh, please, this is beyond disgusting and insulting.

You were calling Hillary's supporters "Bernie and his supporters?"


I look forward to a rousing presence by Bernie and his supporters at the convention. Hopefully where we demostrate what it can be like when people in the same party disagree but come together to keep Trump out of the White House.


You were urging Hillary supporters to come together and support Hillary? smh "

[djean111]

7. Not a different point of view at all - just another request from a Hillary supporter,

for Bernie's supporters to basically stop campaigning against Hillary/for Bernie.

The way Hillary rolls, she will not be budging one millimeter to the left, and would happily and cheerfully govern from the right.

All she honed was the ability to lie about being pulled to the left, she just mouths what Bernie believes in. Just campaign blather. You think she has been pulled to the left of any of her positions? Or, better question, do you really think that I believe she has been pulled to the left? No sale.

[LAS14]

8. Not at all.

I meant what I said. I value Bernie's campaign. I don't want it to end, for the reasons I stated. Note, I did edit it to make clearer that I expect Bernie's supporters at the convention to continue to support him.

[djean111]

11. You expect Bernie's supporters to support him in a subservient sort of role to Hillary's

coronation.

We support Bernie because we do not like where Hillary is on the issues. That is not politely negotiable or smoothly glossed over, as if there were just a few tiny and negligible differences. And, again, all Hillary is getting from Bernie is the parroting of whatever of his policies she feels will pander best. She has not changed her corporate hawkish Third Way self one iota.

No sale.

As if, really, any of us had a say or any authority.

[99Forever]

10. We've seen the campaign left dog and pony show before.

Once too often for this actual progressive.

No sale.

[LWolf]

12. That's a

particularly calm, reasoned, partisan status-quo post.

What it doesn't acknowledge is this:

The long brewing war for party identity has come out of the closet and is now being fought publicly.

Will the Democratic Party continue to evolve into neo-liberal irrelevance for the 99%, or will the Democratic Party reclaim the 99%? What does the 99% represent for the Democratic Party? The people it represents and fights for, or voters it manipulates with fear-driven propaganda, then ignores while it serves the 1%?

For many of us, no matter how you and others try to spin it, it's not about Trump or Republicans, but about Democratic Party identity, and whether or not we can continue to be part of a party machine that doesn't really represent us. Trying to use fear of Republicans to rally us around neo-liberalism is a failing strategy.

There are many Democrats who will simply NOT continue to ride at the back of the neo-liberal Democratic bus. Many who can no longer be counted on to shut up, get in line, and vote with a clothespin just because the front of the bus tells us to.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. I don't sign loyalty oaths.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson