2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSo, Bernie fans want both coddling and scorched earth.
On one hand, they say things like "If Hillary wants my vote, she needs to build a statue of me, and get me a date with JLaw, and pay off my mortgage!" And a few seconds later they're back to the right-wing smears, the emails, and all that.
Sorry, it doesn't work like that. If they want coddling, they can have coddling. Coddle coddle.
But there's not going to be coddling as long as the smears and the tearing down of the Democratic nominee keep going. Bring the party together, unite behind Hillary, and then let the coddling begin.
II-X-II
(18 posts)All I want her to do is step aside and let Bernie take the nomination.
I just don't think Clinton is capable of doing the job and serve the people fairly.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)II-X-II
(18 posts)I gave you my opinion.
I said "I don't think Clinton is capable of doing her job and serving the people fairly."
Where is the smear?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)wants you to fall in line with their agenda. I highly recommend using the Ignore button - it is the little person's head on the far right.
Welcome to DU!
synergie
(1,901 posts)supporters who would also prefer a coronation and have no respect for the millions of people who simply have given their vote to the candidate they prefer. Aren't you also demanding that we fall in line with your agenda?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Newbie voices an opinion shared by millions: "I just don't think Clinton is capable of doing the job and serve the people fairly." This is a valid opinion, even if Hillary supporters BELIEVE otherwise.
OP calls it a smear. Newbie says it is not a smear. I defend Newbie's Right to Have An Opinion Which is Not a Smear (smears are things like "Bernie is a racist" or "he didn't really participate in the civil rights movement" - factually untrue things said to impugn someone's integrity)...
And you think this means I am demanding you fall in line with my EVIL BERNIE agenda.
Straw man. Thank you for playing.
mac56
(17,574 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)you think are legit...
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I've got my hides too, but you won't find me whimpering about them.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)It's hard to take you seriously.
choie
(4,111 posts)N/t
Jackilope
(819 posts)Convention has not happened yet unless you, Doc, and Marty are flying around in a DeLorean and even then, the future us still ours to make.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)You don't get to set the tone at this website, and you don't get to dictate rules to other members. None of us do, so it would be nice if you'd stop.
Perogie
(687 posts)Are you a more informed person because you have more posts?
More intelligent?
I've seen you make this comment more than once.
I didn't realize there was elitism on this forum tied to how many posts you have.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Perogie
(687 posts)doesn't explain why you have made several comments to people that the amount of posts they have somehow makes their comments less important than yours.
You have posted it more than once, so you must believe that the amount of comments you have on this site makes you more of an authority.
That's just sad.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)so save that for somebody who does not understand that. You engaged in a personal attack Sir, Own it, or likely not.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Welcome to DU!
griffi94
(3,733 posts)if Bernie wins the nomination.
So far that isn't happening and it looks less likely now than it did
a month ago.
synergie
(1,901 posts)a guy who isn't winning voters, can be crowned with a nomination he hasn't been capable of winning fairly on his own?
Why do your personal wants take precedence over the will of the nation, do you just have something against democracy?
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Hillary, currently, is not only the front runner in electoral votes, but has accumulated more popular votes than any other candidate, Dem and Repub. Why do you want to subvert the clear will of the people by demanding she step aside?
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)measurable way. But she should step aside and let Bernie take the nomination?
Talk about a coronation!
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Who would alert on such a guru ? You're right, they want Hillary to dance for them while simultaneously flirting with the the evil princess on the other side of the dance floor.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)And that's not about the beauty contest between Clinton and sanders.
It is much bigger and broader than the two candidates who happen to represent the different impulses within the Democratic Party -- and in the general population.
Well said.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)That's not going to happen with people that receive over 100 million dollars from those that make it unjust. I just didn't fall off a turnip truck. BTW, are you ok?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)timmymoff
(1,947 posts)supporting someone who takes money from Wal- mart will do that? Wall St? Big Pharma? Again someone who immediately says min wage should be $12 and hour and starts negotiating from a weaker point? Do you really think this is the path we should take when concerned about economic justice?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)The minimum wage, for example, Hillary wants to raise it up to its highest inflation adjusted level at any time in history, whereas Trump certainly doesn't. Hillary wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and make large investment in clean energy. Trump wants big tax cuts for the rich.
And so on.
The reality is, Hillary and Bernie are pretty close on economic issues, and the areas where Bernie is further left (i.e. $15 vs $12) won't make any difference in the face of GOP opposition. But Hillary and the GOP are night and day.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Yup the gop supports fracking, so does Hillary. The gop supports big business exploiting workers, so does Hillary. The gop takes money from big business like Wal- mart so does Hillary. The gop thinks regime change is a good idea, as does Hillary. The gop supports free trade deals, as she has until recently. Yup night and day I am seeing the glaring differences.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Still, let's go through these.
This isn't black and white. Hillary (and Obama) have been cautiously pro-fracking, primarily because natural gas burns cleaner than coal, but they want strong environmental regulations, unlike the GOP, which is reflexively against environmental laws. And the GOP doesn't believe in climate change, so on environmental issues, there's no comparison at all.
That's not a policy, that's meaningless rhetoric.
That's also not a policy. Also, as you know, corporations can't donate to campaigns. I'm sure that both Hillary and Bernie have received contributions from WalMart employees, since WalMart employs a lot of people.
If you're referring to Libya, that was a European-led effort to avert an impending mass murder/genocide. The GOP wants boots on the ground all over the middle east and is much more Hawkish than Hillary. Trump in particular wants to assassinate the families of suspected terrorists, which is a war crime. Hillary is not even in the same ballpark.
Not sure if you're aware of this, but there are many free trade deals, and Hillary has been for some, and against others. What you are missing is the content of the deals. Hillary, like other pro-trade Dems, want strong environmental and labor protections, whereas the GOP is against that.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)in HRC. I trust a person will do more for my interests when they aren't being funded by those who oppose my interests. I have yet to see minimal consistency regarding any issue. On the other hand Sanders has what is needed for the future, a return to democratic values. The best I can possibly offer HRC is a vote if she can earn it.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)If you look at Hillary's platform, or her voting record, which coincides with Bernie's over 90% of the time, then it's obvious that she's night and day versus the Republicans. But you ignore all that, and go by personal animosity instead.
One it's trust. Her recent evolutions are a large part of it. The other part is that 10% difference is yuuuuge. Again she is not night and day different than republicans, she is mildly better at best. She doesn't cut it for me. I'm not impressed with her group of friends or donors. I am not impressed with her record as sec of state or senator. I am not impressed with how she was willing to remove three dollars from the minimum wage discussion before a battle even happened. This while knowing other cities have enacted the very number Sanders and O'Malley called for $15. So there is that. I am not impressed with her once support of the private prison lobby. Nah, I'm good with my current decision. What can she do to earn my vote? Evolve even more, no. She could try honesty, it would be a new look for her.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)You keep claiming that there's not a big difference between her and the GOP, but when I point out the facts on issue after issue, it's obvious that you are wrong.
And speaking of evolution, the single biggest evolution by far is Bernie's transition from a means-of-production-nationalizing socialist in his Liberty Union days to a Euro-style social democrat he currently claims to be. Somehow Bernie fans ignore that, but the fact that Hillary has supported some trade deals while opposing others is an indication of her untrustworthiness.
You're right that some of the votes where they diverged are significant. For example, when Bernie voted to give gun corporations a special legal immunity that nobody else gets. But for the most part, they are very close, and like I said, the difference between $12 and $15 will make absolutely no difference in practice. What will make a difference is if a Republican who wants to get rid of the minimum wage entirely gets into office.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)a republican ends up in the white house. Facts are she has been on many sides of issues. Thus her lack of trust. You can only get bit so much before you decide not to offer your hand. My hand isn't out there. And again, she supports to many things I oppose. She negotiates from a point of weakness. I don't need her brand of democrat. You can accept it, I won't.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)You need to document someone else's words and present them.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)But I'm still dedicated to economic justice and will continue to advocate.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Thousands of potential Democratic candidates - younger, less baggage, better qualified - but you folks picked Hillary.
While I applaud your psychic ability, it's not over yet.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)(this part is known only by Goldman Sachs & Hillary)
Logical
(22,457 posts)timmymoff
(1,947 posts)The complacency and acceptance of her brand of democrat is what gets us in positions like this. I am a democrat of old. I believe FDR was far greater for us than the Clinton's. I do not support fracking, I do not support wall st. or Wal-Mart, I do not support regime change. I do not support a person who immediately starts a minimum wage negotiation for 3 dollars less than the other democratic candidates (Sanders and O'Malley). We don't want coddled, nor do we feel we need a lecture from someone supporting Hillary. I will not support the election of Hillary Clinton in any way other than a possible vote. That's the best election math I can offer the group designed to sell us out, and sell us out they have. When there isn't much difference between the business wing of the democrats and the republicans, some soul searching is in order. The results of a kinder, gentler castration are the same, one will just heal faster.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)It totally overpowers any logical argument you may be trying to make. When you use quotes, make sure it's for something someone actually said or wrote. Don't make up idiotic shit and then surround it with quotation marks while claiming you've read or heard it. That's pretty much where most of us stop reading.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)A lot of us don't want your candidate or your fake fellowship, so please continue as you are.
Setsuna1972
(332 posts)There are still more Bernie boys out there saying bullshit about how Hillary Clinton has won the Confereracy and turn right back around to ask people to be nice to them . Fuck that ! They just don't get it, those dog whistle racist attacks only serve to dislike Bernie MORE . And the morons making these dingbat comments aren't making things better .
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Setsuna1972
(332 posts)Bernie Sanders is an 8 track tapeplayer trying to play a new Adele song from iTunes !
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)covering all of Bernie's platform until she gets to veer extremely hard right. Again, the Hillary hags are going to be the destruction of the once liberal platforms they held. Good luck in the general with the far right lurch she will move towards. Duped again by the Wall St. candidate on the "liberal" side. Even though she is farther right than the Rockefeller republicans of old.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Maybe coddling (if that's what you want to call having their agenda taken seriously) *or* scorched earth.
It is Clinton's choice.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)thesquanderer
(11,995 posts)They don't necessarily all say the same things.
It sounds like you may be attributing things said by different people to the same phantom "super Bernie supporter in the cloud."
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Setsuna1972
(332 posts)And enjoy living in a Socialist paradise !
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)And, help bring socialism to America?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and China is truly not, regardless of their press, a socialist state. They are a communist nation, that have adopted strong neo liberal economic policies.
You really should update the red baiting though, You meant Sweden.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)You know, "facts"?
merrily
(45,251 posts)The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Says a lot about one's inscrutability.
merrily
(45,251 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Doesn't seem like it. Every time I post, I have to take all kinds of crap for stuff I never posted--and I'm not sure anyone ever posted.
Months of this kind of crap have been so tiresome and unproductive. And no end in sight.
I wonder what people think it accomplishes?
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)We don't need to be coddled and we don't need to be continuously told to do what Hillary supporters order us to do. We will do what we individually feel is right. For me it is right to vote for Bernie..it's not even half over..........stop...enough!
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)And I'll give you a shiny penny if you can link to Bernie's supporters saying anything like the words you've posted (hint: you won't win this).
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Happy St. Patricks Day
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)What else ya got?
actslikeacarrot
(464 posts)You think it's bad now? You think THIS is scorched earth? Wait until the G.E. Wait until trump or cruz really get the right wing noise machine going. sniper fire, Iraq vote, Syria, Libya, the fucking private server and her emails you name it. In the G.E. it wont matter if it's true or not. Perception will be reality. Better get used to it now.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)actslikeacarrot
(464 posts)...will pale in comparison in the G.E.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)and why would I want to date them.
yuiyoshida
(41,867 posts)He is not a movie star or a rock singer. Isn't there something better to use than Bernie fans, or BernieBros?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Why embarrass yourself like that?
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)So many using the withholding of their votes as a threat for the GE....then post after post of RW rhetoric and reccing others' RW rhetoric.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)how old are you, to think we want a date with either of those Gen-X-ers?
And asking for single payer, asking for legal protection from housing discrimination and adoption discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, asking for a veto of TPP, or the overturning of Citizens United, is NOT asking to be coddled. It is asking to do away with matters that are clearly wrong. To ask for a different (less hawkish) foreign policy is not asking for a statue, it is asking for our prospective standard-bearer to develop a sensible worldview. For you to imply that these matters are just "youth not knowing their place" - now THAT is a right-wing smear.
And as long as the Clinton campaign and / or her supporters continue to attack Bernie supporters with GOP talking points, you had better believe that we will not fall in line, even if she manages to win the nomination (which I still hope won't happen).
No, we will not unite behind Hillary while you continue to bash us. This "come out with your hands up and maybe we won't shoot you" approach is indicative of the arrogance on the Clinton side.
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by the way: DOWN WITH HOMOPHOBIA IN ALL ITS FORMS!