2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWow. Hillary lost Idaho by 57 points and Utah by 60.
Those are incredibly huge margins for a front runner to lose by, especially this late in the race.
Hillary supporters, who have long touted the race as over, should be asking why she was utterly rejected in yesterday's contests. And what she can do moving forward to correct course.
hereforthevoting
(241 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Fla Dem
(23,785 posts)Perhaps if the BS team had spent more time educating their supporters on the voting procedures they wouldn't have been caught flat footed. Who's to say there weren't HRC voters in those long lines as well. In fact there were probably more HRC voters in line than BS voters seeing tha HRC won by over 70,000 votes. So unless there were over 70,000 BS voters in those lines, the compliant is a whine and nothing more.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)About these huge losses.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)They were expecting those losses and spent their money where it mattered.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Utah could be in play.
I hope to hell she doesn't run the GE race like this.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Her strategy was big wins in big states. That is why she is winning.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Doesn't it make sense to pivot and adjust her campaign to reach more voters in more states, looking ahead to the general?
There is also value to her if she doesn't allow these landslides against her. The sooner Bernie is out the sooner she can turn to the GE.
hack89
(39,171 posts)He will drop out if there is no clear path to the nomination?
Perhaps Hillary is taking him at his word.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)If he wasn't wining at all or only picked off a couple by small margins, he would no longer be viable.
When he wins by these margins, he has an angle to continue and elicit funding support.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I have no problem with him raising money but it doesn't change the fact that Hillary has an insurmountable lead.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)If she is,Trump wins.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Reddest stage in the union, tiny electoral
College delegation, land of religious zealots.
Clinton has this thing. I'm not surprised she didn't give a fuck about Utah. How desperate does a
Dem campaign have to be to tout Utah results?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)If any dem wins Utah the election is over way before the polls close. Mormons hate Trump (smart Mormons). They also don't like Hillary (or strong women secularists in general).
And they don't give a shit about Bernie. As with many onnthe left he is simply a convenient protest vote. Cuz people are mad bro.
There is zero reason to factor Utah in to any rational electoral college strategy in the general. If either dem won it we would be talking about a landslide of historic proportions.
I think it more likely that Clinton puts Georgia in play. And that is a load of EC votes.
Dream on Bernistas, dream on. If only we lived on a planet made of cotton candy then cows could dance.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Mormons do hate Trump so who knows. Georgia is trending less red every cycle.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Utah will vote GOP. It's a GOP machine state just like NY is a dem machine state. A few thousand liberals in SLC and St George won't make a difference. This is fantasy politics, by people who never paid attention before Bernie promised them utopia.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Trumps not a man any Mormon would take home to meet the family.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Not one of those states will give her electoral votes in the fall. Yet, the Hillary fanatics gleefully boast of her big wins there.
You guys need to get your propaganda points straight.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)"Confederate States" and the fact you use it says volumes about where you are coming from.
Furthermore, no Clinton supporters "TOUTED that not one of those states will give her electoral votes in the fall".
Why would a Clinton supporter even begin to TOUT that?
LOLZ.
YOU guys need to read what you're posting before hitting the "Post my reply" button.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)I never said Hillary supporters talked about confederate states. I said that. They are red states.
What I said:
"Not one of those states will give her electoral votes in the fall. Yet, the Hillary fanatics gleefully boast of her big wins there."
Hillary fanatics did boast of her big primary wins there. They still do.
You claimed I said (in quotation marks no less):
"TOUTED that not one of those states will give her electoral votes in the fall".
I never made that statement. Of course they wouldn't admit that.
You flat out lied.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)"Hillary won all the confederate, red states and her fanatics always tout that
Not one of those states will give her electoral votes in the fall. Yet, the Hillary fanatics gleefully boast of her big wins there.
You guys need to get your propaganda points straight."
Oh, so that was two sentences. I misread due to your writing skills ie, ending a sentence in "that"
Okay
the fact still remains...
You ARE using the term CONFEDERATE STATES. Nice dog whistle you have there.
Furthermore, Hillary supporters are not 'fanatics'. We are not the ones who first decide superdelegates are anti-democratic and then switch to supporting their existence in the desperate hope they'll switch to Sanders.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)You put in quotation marks a statement I never made. That was a lie and you know it.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)"Fanatics".
LOLZ.
And you ended your sentence with "that" so I apologize for not comprehending your poorly worded post.
Whatever.
Using the term Confederate States in the context you are using it demonstrates where you are coming from.
It's like sticking a label on your virtual forehead.
Wear it proudly.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Do you want to deny that and redouble your lie?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Think that through. She is not an unknown candidate - she has insane name recognition.
And the upstart candidate who only the Vermont people paid attention to is wiping the floor with her.
Segami
(14,923 posts)and sit back and wait to see what kind of remarks that will be popping up on these boards........oh, I almost forgot...lol!
vdogg
(1,384 posts)Two nearly totally white states that are tailor made for Bernie and have a paltry amount of delegates. It's gonna take a lot more than this to overcome a 300 delegate lead, but I think you know that...
speaktruthtopower
(800 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)A handful are close, but so many blow outs, often region specific.
The party needs to understand and plan for this. And it makes no sense for Hillary and her supporters to ignore and dismiss it as nothing simply because she is leading. You would think they would be a little more curious and a little more honest in trying to understand the results.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)They talk about the so-called enthusiasm gap explaining the difference, but I'm not sure I buy that anymore.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)It's time for us to organize and do what clearly needs to be done.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)jcgoldie
(11,655 posts)She still won over 20,000 more votes than Bernie yesterday and he barely touched her massive delegate lead. Oh yeah and I'm still waiting for some Sanders supporter to point out that democrats will never win those 2 states in November...
morningfog
(18,115 posts)As for popular votes, the caucuses don't record those, so the point is an aside and contest specific.
As for your last point, recent polls have shown Utah is in play if trump is the nominee.
Aren't you the least bit curious as to why she was destroyed in these recent contests? It should be a cake walk of wins for her at this point.
jcgoldie
(11,655 posts)So the new Sanders goal is to avoid "a cakewalk of wins"? Bernie is a good candidate, those states had favorable demographics for him and the right kind of primaries... why would you expect a cakewalk over the guy you support? Oh and they do record popular votes in Idaho and Utah...
Arizona: HRC +73 k
Idaho: SBS +14 k
Utah: SBS: +39 k
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_vote_count.html
morningfog
(18,115 posts)as a democratic voter looking ahead. These are honest questions that should be asked.
jcgoldie
(11,655 posts)No ulterior motives for focusing on favorable results for your candidate in 2 very white caucus states where the outcome was predictable and ignoring the much larger and more diverse state that turned out quite a bit worse for your guy than anyone expected or than he can afford at this point... just honest questions here.... righhhht... maybe its you who should "shove" that bullshit as you so politely put it.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)You don't know me. And you are projecting bullshit.
jcgoldie
(11,655 posts)...to recognize bullshit.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)style are not at all what they claim to be, in fact they are what they claim everyone else is.
jcgoldie
(11,655 posts)I called him on the inconsistencies in the OP and he told me to shove it. I responded in kind. Shrug.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...not all voters are in a position to spend the extra time to caucus, so the comparison is meaningless.
BeyondGeography
(39,386 posts)Except she didn't have a 300-plus lead in pledged delegates at the time.
reddread
(6,896 posts)not that I approve of that.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)She really doesn't need to "correct" anything -- she has it well and truly in hand.
Seriously, less than 24,000 Democrats caucused in the entire state of Idaho -- that's attendance at a Los Angeles Galaxy game. A relative handful of all-white voters in a couple podunk states rejected her; she'll survive.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)A front runner should be a little more interested in the voters instead of coasting at this point.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I think she sent Michelle Kwan to Utah. Bernie spent about 3x as much also.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)in a massive, massive way.
JaneyVee "2. Hillary wins all 3"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511508311
So yesterday you were not saying 'who cares, she wrote those meaningless voters off long ago' you were saying she'd win. Saying incorrectly that she'd win.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)In states that are more diverse, the results seem to shift towards Hillary, sometimes dramatically so.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I think he will need to have several strong wins in more diverse states if he wants to win the nomination.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)The states that are fairly diverse like Michigan and Ohio have tended to be pretty close contests.
The states that are 90+ percent white like Utah and Idaho have been big wins for Bernie.
The states where non-whites make up the majority of Democratic voters like Alabama and Georgia have been big wins for Hillary.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But maybe that was only the ones where there were so many black voters voting in the primaries. If only us black folks were not such Confederates! Hopefully we will be 'educated' by our ideological betters on the proper ways to think and vote, then our states will 'count' too, and our UTTER REJECTION OF her opponent will mean HE needs to CORRECT COURSE.
I guess actually winning more delegates and votes is no longer the measure of success. One must win 'REAL' states with 'REAL' liberals, like the most PROGRESSIVES states in America, such as, Idaho and Utah. Hopefully states like California will join us Black folks in our Confederate lifestyles.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)And this is not the point of this thread.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I mean, I did not see many folks on his side upset about us being call mater/servant class, but I saw a bunch of folks condeming me and everybody I know for a post I wrote, deleted, and apologized for.
So, I pretty much think that since we are all evil people for a post I wrote, then anyone not Condeming That type of crap is silently giving the approval of such vituperative attacks. I also did not see many of you in my threads telling folks to knock of the constant reposting of my full name over and over to bully me into silence
But now We all have damn amnesia and Hillary is sudenly in need of rethinking her campaign, as if her side is the one that is losing. With these type of things going on I think maybe he might be the one in need of rethinking how to draw more diverse sections of the democratic electorate, rather than folks crowing about winning the least diverse states, while their comrades are busy doing this stuff.
Now that folks are finding my friends and relatives to harass them about posts that were screenshotted and bandied about on here with MY FULL NAME OVER AND OVER IN OPS AND SHIT, I think I can make any damn point I want on any thread I want to. Unless y'all gon find out who is doing this shit and let them know that I am pissed and finna speak constantly until people stop fucking with my fam.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I started an OP saying exactly that every state matters, every vote matters. I posted repeatedly that I think Bernie made a significant error in his strategy to ignore the southern states.
I have no idea what has happened with you and your family. It sounds horrible, sorry to hear.
One problem with this board is that posters view others as a collective and impugn every thought of one with all from another "side." It prevents constructive discourse because old fights are rehashed with people not involved initially.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I thank you for standing up a saying what was right even when folks were probably ready to kick you off the team for not being in complete agreement.
My family is fine, though I worry more for the safety of those attempting to bully them. I wish they would stop, the people they are contacting have spent time in prison and do not care about their rights, or free speech, or politics. I am the kindest person i am related to. The others? Have teardrop tatoos on their faces or gang tats or have been living in the hood since birth. I hope they end the stalking before their targets of this new harassment campaign find them to harass them back. This internet badass shit does not work on folks who are ACTUAL badasses. Not cool and not safe.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)I am trying trying to keep my kids off of street corners. Plus Hillary is paying me to remain a Confederate.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If we get your kids out of the black ghetto, they can grow up to be black Oligarchical confederates like us...
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I live on the corner.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)because you are still on the corner
bravenak
(34,648 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)an alabama welcome to you
NowSam
(1,252 posts)and I think the healing from that rift that the theft of 2000 had only just begun. This is all theater folks. The villains are winning.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)It doesn't help your cause
NowSam
(1,252 posts)Please stop trying to silence me.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,716 posts)Said no person ever.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I know no one believes me, and that is fine, but I ask these questions as a student of political science and following of politics. And as a Democratic voter looking ahead.
FarPoint
(12,466 posts)So, let's stay focused and proactive.
New Earth
(9,745 posts)She has no chance!
Tarc
(10,478 posts)Similar to the military tactic of leapfrogging, although in this case the idea is to bypass less important states than stronger ones, obviously.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Fairly insignificant. What is Bernie going to do about his delegate deficit?
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Confederate states...etc
bravenak
(34,648 posts)forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)The Bernie supporters are in full Romney 2012 unskewed polling mode and it is fucking embarrassing. I'm still hopeful for a miracle but dammit we seem determined to prove all the shit people say about his support base right.
Do you realize how horrible it sounds when we dismiss Clinton winning red states full of black people while rah-rahing Bernie winning red states that have very few black people?
djean111
(14,255 posts)Almost looks like a "Bernie BUT" post - referring to "The Bernie supporters" and then full-on smearing them as Romney-supporter-like and as being fucking embarrassing is always interesting.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)Then wear it. I'm not one of the thin skinned Bernie supporters who need a safe space insulated from any criticism of my candidate, but apparently you are. (and inb4 Hillary supporters, the Hillary supporters who act like that are just as bad)
djean111
(14,255 posts)give up and support Hillary. You are not criticizing Bernie, by the way, just his supporters.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:32 AM - Edit history (1)
We embraced Bernie's message in Idaho by 4 to 1.
It was the largest caucus in Boise's history, over 15,000 people attended.
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)...and South Carolina by 49 points.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)will not get huge delegate hauls.
But congratulations to Sanders.
pantsonfire
(1,306 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)so they were able to successfully manage the outcome.
-none
(1,884 posts)All kind of other voting problems. Hillary "wins".
In two other states, voting goes smoothly, no long lines or ballot shortages, everyone eligible gets to vote, and Bernie wins in a land slide.
Nothing to see here, move along now.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)casperthegm
(643 posts)Good night for Bernie
Marr
(20,317 posts)split here is coming into play in a backwards sort of way. That is to say, Hillary is absolutely despised on the right. I wonder if white Democratic voters in conservative and 'purple' states tend to share their neighbors' personal dislike of Hillary.
If so, that could put a lot of states out of her reach in the general that would typically be up for grabs.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)He seems to win in the same states Cruz wins in.
Fascinating.