2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie says 5 hours in line to vote is disgraceful. Hillary says
nothing. I think it's reasonable to infer that, should she make it to the white house, voting rights will not be a factor in her choice for a SCOTUS justice
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seabeyond
(110,159 posts)
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Did she tell anybody to cut it out?
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)You do realize that Arizona is a Republican State, with a Republican Governor, with a Republican Legislature. And until the Voting Rights Act was gutting by the Supreme Court, Arizona's changes would have to have been approved ... don't you?
But go ahead and blame Clinton for everything ... you people do already.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Has she said anything about the problems yesterday yet?
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)What would it change if she does? Would yesterday's lines get any shorter?
The Phoenix mayor has called for a Federal Investigation into the matter. It's not a subject that is going to get dropped. What would change if Clinton mentioned it?
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)If she has then i will gladly eat crow.
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)What would it change if she mentioned it today?
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Silence is consent
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Silence is consent? What a joke.
And if she said something about it, then we'd see threads about how Sanders said something so Clinton had to jump on the bandwagon. You people are so predictable. It's also no different than the way Faux "News" and Republicans act.
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)I guess if she says something now we can create an "it's been 24 hours so she's not copying him" rule
FreedomRain
(413 posts)this post would seem to inoculate her against any "copying" charges.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511564555#post13
So yes it would be nice if she joined the call for justice here. Would even be good for her politically, I would think.
BainsBane
(53,112 posts)when the right wing were doing their videos, and instead spoke to the press about MSNBC taking Ed Schultz off the air? It certainly demonstrated his priorities, but does that mean he consented to the right wing operation?
And what about Utah? I haven't seen people here denounce Utah. In fact, one person said they hadn't even heard of the lines in Utah, despite the fact CNN reported one was a mile long. Did Bernie speak out about that? Or like those supporters who responded in this thread, does he think lines are okay in some states, that he coincidentally wins, but not the ones he doesn't?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511564107
And if concern for democracy is a great concern for him, why did he stay silent when Tad Devine announced a plan to flip pledged delegates and thereby overturn the popular vote? According to you, silence equals consent. And in this case it was his own campaign manager. http://www.ibtimes.com/bernie-sanders-fantasy-campaign-hopes-win-hillary-clintons-pledged-delegates-unlikely-2338452
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Either Hillary or Bernie will be facing the same thing in the general.
yardwork
(61,752 posts)Voting is controlled by the states. The Tepyblicans have been taking over states, one by one, for more than a decade. The Republicans have been enacting voter suppression laws. The Supreme Court let them on closely divided votes.
To stop this we need:
1. Democratic control of states - governors and legislatures.
2. More progressives on the Supreme Court.
3. Democratic control of Congress.
Hillary Clinton has been talking about this for a long time. Why don't you help?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)
jillan
(39,451 posts)
Right, it's the new Left!
Response to jillan (Reply #3)
imari362 This message was self-deleted by its author.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)on the racist Florida scrub list that stole the election for Bush
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)And also, "long before we heard from Sanders", Mrs Clinton was against gay marriage, in favor of the Iraq war, in favor of TPP, and in favor of healthcare for all. She's evolved on those issues. Are you sure she hasn't on voting rights?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)They were never NOT on Bernie's agenda.
The only reason you have an issue with the guy is because of the completely bogus line you draw between the social justice and economic justice causes.
The truth is, those causes are distinct, but closely related-and that neither form of justice can be achieved without the other being achieved as well. The Sixties proved that partial victories for social justice will always be erased if economic justice isn't prioritized as well, because the number one cause of white backlash is fear of losing economic ground. And the Thirties proved that, if social justice is not achieved, a majority coalition for economic justice can't be built either.
The vast majority of justice activists are committed to BOTH causes.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)We can keep doing this but it doesn't matter. He lost.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Everyone who supports economic justice is an equally committed supporter of social justice.
Why would you ever think we wouldn't be?
We include people of all races, genders, sexual orientations and creeds.
We are just as much against police harassment of and police violence against POC as we are against corporate greed.
And it isn't possible to defeat bigotry if you put economic justice aside.
If you leave the economic status quo in place, it will always create the fear of want and impoverishment that feeds backlash.
You never had any reason to fear that he wouldn't stand strongly in support of social justice and against all forms of social oppression.
The campaign isn't over yet and Bernie's support among POC is slowly rising.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)many more times than on Fox.
Progressive opponents of the Clintons do not collude with the right. We didn't in the Nineties...we don't now.
And HRC can't get any votes against Trump that Bernie couldn't get.
yardwork
(61,752 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)You're sounding desperate. Also work on your capitalization.
needledriver
(836 posts)On Thursday, Hillary Clinton received the Barbara Jordan Public-Private Leadership Award at the historically black Texas Southern University in Houston. A former member of the House of Representatives, Jordan was the first black congresswoman elected from the South, the first black American to represent Texas in Congress, and a fierce advocate for the Voting Rights Act, fighting to extend its protections to minorities.
It’s on that latter point that Clinton, speaking in acceptance of the award, made her remarks. “Forty years after Barbara Jordan fought to extend the Voting Rights Act, its heart has been ripped out,” she said. “What is happening is a sweeping effort to disempower and disenfranchise people of color, poor people, and young people from one end of our country to the other.” She continued: “Since the Supreme Court eviscerated a key provision of the Voting Rights Act in 2013, many of the states that previously faced special scrutiny because of a history of racial discrimination have proposed and passed new laws that make it harder than ever to vote.”
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/06/hillary_clinton_speaks_out_on_voting_rights_the_democratic_frontrunner_condemns.html
FreedomRain
(413 posts)excellent post, hope she uses Arizona as a present day example of her point.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)With an army of lawyers to make sure at the very least the broken laws (like properly registered Dems, unlawfully being told they could not vote, get to) and making the county allow the POC that were not allowed to vote to receive their right to do so!!
,,,soon..
.....
...Well it's a busy day for rich people shopping for giant pearls, and the line is long today......she'll be right along soon with her sidekick bullhorn Bill in tow to tell them what's for.....
...Or maybe she forgot to wash her champion of the people superpower pantsuit, and without it lacks the courage and leadership strength required to battle the Republicans today is all...
Never mind, I just learned that the Republican voter fraud affected mostly only Latinos, you know, POC, "the help" to those as pearled up as her majesty, so help isn't coming, either that or she is too weak to fight for us as "our champion"™ against the much stronger Republicans in AZ. I sure do hope they treat her with kid gloves if she is elected, she's not strong enough to be our "champion" if it involves fighting for us against scary Republicans that are just too powerful for her weakness in chief
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)cut his teeth at the polls as a Republican lawyer challenging black and latino voters
BainsBane
(53,112 posts)Is it a disgrace there too? Here I've heard about how Utah isn't a problem and that only Arizona is a problem.
ETA: Nope, specific to Arizona:
A mile-long line in Utah doesn't merit a mention. What does that say about the kind of Supreme Court justices he would appoint?
FreedomRain
(413 posts)If so, they certainly deserve a mention too.
BainsBane
(53,112 posts)cut them down to only one per county. The lines show white people. I don't know that Utah has many minorities.
Minority areas, seriously? Bernie supporters want the election overturned because precincts that favor Clinton didn't have enough opportunity to vote?
FreedomRain
(413 posts)investigated yes. Fixed for the general, yes. I have heard about wanting a revote; we all know that will not happen.
but minority areas, yes that is pretty serious. And as you subtly hint at, some of those would tend to favor Clinton based on previous trends. So the silence from her isn't even politically explainable.
Shame about Utah too, I'll just assume what you say about the slashing is true. Something really has to be done. Yes we all expected higher than average turnout, we have seen it all across the nation. some waiting is expected. Suppression is what we had here.
yardwork
(61,752 posts)yardwork
(61,752 posts)Hillary has been working against voter suppression for years. It's an integral part of her platform. The Clintons always work hard to support down ticket elections and fight the Republican takeover of states.
It appears that the first Bernie heard of voter suppression was yesterday. Hillary has been fighting it for years. Does Bernie only care if it happens in a state he lost?
FreedomRain
(413 posts)It's why her silence here is odd. I expect she will say something about it, given her record.
And yes, Utah deserves inclusion in the general condemnation. The "only" part- that was all you, but notice how I don't pin your condescension as a fault of your candidate?
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)She said "I won."
dchill
(38,597 posts)while people stand in line to vote.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)
Lorien
(31,935 posts)of voters were still waiting in line and only a fraction of the vote had been tallied. It's almost as if she was anticipating a specific outcome regardless of the circumstances. At the very least it shows extreme disrespect for voters, the democratic process, and a complete lack of sound judgement and decency.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)supporters are blaming this on the democratic party and Hillary when in fact it shows what majority republican state legislatures with right wing republican governors do to suppress the vote. I deplore and condemn voter suppression. I think it's atrociously undemocratic and must change.
I think those who are paying attention with a little less paranoia feel it's deplorable for the Sanders folks (with Sanders giving tacit approval by not placing the blame squarely on republicans) to try and blame this on Hillary. Especially since it probably wouldn't have changed any results in the primaries more than 1/2 a percentage point and actually could have given Hillary or Bernie - what? one more or one less delegate.
What really saddens me is fanatical and paranoid Sanders supporters continually and ignorantly blaming people who work constantly to expand voter rights, and therefor dampen enthusiasm for voting out the bums who call themselves republicans, because they think they're too 'smart' to vote and encourage other not to vote as well. I think that's a terrible problem among the left (of which I'm a proud, voting member).
yardwork
(61,752 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)yardwork
(61,752 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I think she will say something but I think she already should have. As an Oregonian I feel badly for anyone asked to line up to vote, much less for hours and then to not get to vote at all. Even the Republicans should be able to vote with ease.
Arizona Native Americans are particularly burdened by the current set up and yet DU has seen people claiming that the suppression issues are a 'fake tantrum covering up the Native Vote'. That is horrific bullshit, and it's from Hillary supporters.
The other thing the fake voter suppression tantrum distracts from is that Native American Navajo County voted 63-37 for Clinton.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511563951
And yet the reality....
Voting Rights 2016: Native Americans Struggle To Overcome Barriers Ahead Of Arizona Elections
"O.J. Semans, a member of the Ogala Sioux tribe, is co-executive director of Four Directions, an organization that advocates for Native voting rights across the country. He has worked to protect voting rights in Arizona during previous election cycles and said one of the main obstacles facing American Indian voters is the distance they must travel to cast their ballots.
Native reservations are typically located in rural areas, and counties often do not have polling locations set up on or near reservations. Until recently, Semans and other residents of the Rosebud Indian Reservation in South Dakota had to travel 60 miles to the next county to vote in elections.
“If you look at the poverty rates and transportation on reservations, you’re not going to have the transport to cast that vote,” Semans said. “If you go to Arizona, you’re going to find the same thing. They have early voting, but nothing of the conveniences that are made for non-Indians off reservations are made available for Indian reservations.”
http://www.ibtimes.com/voting-rights-2016-native-americans-struggle-overcome-barriers-ahead-arizona-2340458
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Hey, checking with focus groups to find out what her "heartfelt position" is takes time.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)Lorien
(31,935 posts)good point.
While I think that Cruz would be even worse than Trump, it still bothers me that both Bernie and Cruz were well ahead of Trump and Hillary in the exit polls, yet the AP also called the election for Trump with 1% of the vote tallied while people were still waiting in line. Anyone who believes in Democracy should be appalled at the fraud that took place and should denounce it, on both sides, yet Bernie is the only one speaking out. That says volumes to me about Bernie and the other candidates.
