HRC isn't to blame for AZ vote suppression...but it's offensive for her supporters to belittle it.

[Ken Burch]

It's also against the long-term interests of her campaign for them to do so.

There is no valid reason, regardless of who you support for president, for ANY Democrat ever to treat any instances of vote suppression or any instances in which election procedures are handled improperly-such as the public release and of partial returns WHILE PEOPLE ARE STILL LINED UP TO VOTE-as if it is a trivial matter.

If a states do this during a primary, there is nothing to stop them from doing on Election Night in November. Even if HRC dos end up being our nominee.

And our campaign and our candidate would still have raised this as an issue if the apparent results were reversed in Arizona. We don't want to see anyone stopped or discouraged from voting.

[bkkyosemite]

1. Her supporters are just as affected by hacking that is going on in our Democratic system

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511565499

[seabeyond]

2. What we are calling out are the disgustingly offensive post vilifying Clinton

While she lost votes too. You switch the argument to not caring about disenfranchised voters. Everyone on DU opposes restricting peoples vote.

[bahrbearian]

4. Telling the truth for Hillary supporters = disgustingly offensive.

[seabeyond]

7. And you are not "telling" the truth.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. That's bullshit. OP title: The other thing the fake AZ voter suppression tantrum distracts from.

The other thing the fake voter suppression tantrum distracts from is that Native American Navajo County voted 63-37 for Clinton.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511563951

But the Native Americans in Arizona have been speaking out against the poll cuts and voter suppression for months and months.....
Here is a report on their 'fake tantrum'::

Voting Rights 2016: Native Americans Struggle To Overcome Barriers Ahead Of Arizona Elections
"The Navajo Nation reservation, the largest concentrated population of American Indians in the United States, is tucked into Arizona's northwest corner. Stretching across 27,000 square miles of mesas, shrubs and sand, the reservation is largely rural, often without internet access, paved roads or street signs. Employment and education rates are far below the national average, and very few people own vehicles. If residents on the reservation ever need to drive to their county seat — say, to register to vote or to cast an early-voting ballot — the journey could easily take them four hours.

Ahead of Arizona’s primary on Tuesday, Democratic candidates Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton have sought to reach out to Native communities and mention Native issues on the campaign trail. This year marks the first presidential election since the Supreme Court in 2013 struck down the key provision of the Voting Rights Act that required states with a history of voting discrimination to get pre-approval for new voting laws. While much of the national conversation has been focused on Southern states and laws affecting African-American and Hispanic voters, Native Americans in places like Arizona also are affected by policies that discourage them from voting, which have resulted in some of the lowest voter participation rates of any demographic group in the country."
http://www.ibtimes.com/voting-rights-2016-native-americans-struggle-overcome-barriers-ahead-arizona-2340458

[seabeyond]

23. No. It is not bullshit and Clinton supporters are not into defranchising voters.

[TDale313]

30. I'm not seeing a lot of Hillary supporters

Or Hillary herself for that matter, talking about this. And when they do it's to attack Sanders supporters for bringing the fact up that there abso-friggin-lutely was voter suppression. I am not saying it changed the result. I don't think it came from the Dems- but we have a major problem and it seems mostly the Bernie side saying so and agitating against what was clearly meant to suppress Democratic votes (and the tactic will be used in Nov so Hillary supporters would be wise to join us on this.)

[seabeyond]

34. Because we have been talking about it since 2004. This one, this one seems to be all it, when the

reality, one just needs to go back thru this yr and 2012 and 2010 and 2008 and and and see the same thing. And always we are on the side of fixing voter rights.

This is not new. This is not only Arizona. This has been happening thru out this primary.

What do you want?

But ya... start rampages blaming and vilifying, and attacking, and accusing the Democrats and Clinton. Hell ya, I am pissed at the trashing of our, .... of MY party. Sanders does not get to own voter rights. Just knock it the fuck off (not you personally) and go after those responsible. Who is using it as a weapon against the opposing candidate?

EVERYONE is disgusted purposely keeping poll places out of the Latino's community. Do you seriously think otherwise?

And if nothing else, that would be Clinton vote, btw. If nothing else. But that is not the point.

[TDale313]

36. We need to come together on this.

Arizona is just the latest of this kind of voter suppression, but it's one of the most incredibly well documented and we might actually be able to do something here. What I'm seeing is a massive "meh" or "conspiracy theory!!!!" coming from the Hillary side. JMO, but they seem far more concerned with protecting Hillary's bragging rights in this race than in the fact that voters were standing in line for literally hours. And many of us are placing the blame where it belongs. But nothing good will come out of this if the complaints just get boiled down to "sore losers!!!" Which means we need voices supporting those who won to speak out too. It's not (or it shouldn't be) a Hillary v Bernie thing. That misses the point.

[seabeyond]

44. You have the mayor and another doing something about it, calling in Justice. You totally

ignore the fact that Clinton and Democrats have been blamed, accused, insulted with every state she has won, one way or another, and with every super delegate and endorsement. If DEMOCRATS.... are pissed that Sanders and his camp have done nothing but gripe and complain and accuse, then there just might be a reason for it.

As a Democrat, I am pissed that our party is trashed continuously because Sanders did not win a state.

You say we have to come together on this and then get on Clinton supporters asses for trying to stop the tital wave of accusations that Clinton is responsible for this.

Lets get together on it. But, I already see steps being taken. Don't you? Democrats have been addressing this issue before and after. The Democratic party has been calling this out before and after.

Arizona Democrats were yelling about this well before the election. They are yelling about it now.

Where are the Democrats failing? Lets stop blaming them or suggesting they do not care. You know that disinformation makes a difference.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

47. some times the truth is disgustingly offensive

I would stay and chat but we are under direct fire here - the bullets are flying by - see you later

[brooklynite]

3. Maybe if the Sanders folks had joined you in the "HRC isn't to blame for AZ vote suppression" part..

...the response would have been different.

[Lizzie Poppet]

19. Some of us did.

Revealingly, you seem to think it's okay to ignore an anti-democratic debacle because your "enemies" didn't behave as you would prefer. You poor thing..how do you cope?

So, did Princess Weathervane ever get around to commenting on the fiasco?

[brooklynite]

28. Funny, I never feel the need to resort to name-calling of candidates I don't support...

...maybe you feel differently.

As for your initial complaint, nobody on the Clinton said has dismissed illegal voter suppression tactics. They HAVE pointed out the the LAW says that Independents can't vote in a Presidential Primary, and changing that law in midstream isn't called for.

[Lizzie Poppet]

31. Snark in response to a shitty blanket statement.

...nobody on the Clinton said has dismissed illegal voter suppression tactics.

Bullshit. No shortage of examples of Clinton supporters responding in threads about the AZ fiasco with their usual combination of condescension, "here come the excuses" idiocy, irrelevant statements ("hurr, durr...math!&quot , insult...and nary a word about the subject of the thread. That's "dismissal" in my book. Or maybe deflection...

[jeff47]

39. Go look at post 6 in this thread.

As for your initial complaint, nobody on the Clinton said has dismissed illegal voter suppression tactics.

Reply 6 on this thread. Since yours is reply 28, that was already here when you made this claim.

Also, we've got plenty of gems talking about "fake voter suppression". Unless you've got a vast swath of your fellow Clinton supporters on ignore, you'd have seen those too.

[yardwork]

5. Yeah, I was personally accused of belittling it in a 180 degree twisting of my words.

Reading comprehension seems to be a challenge for some here. Or maybe it's deliberate. Anyway, this tendency to run around DU accusing people of saying the opposite of what they're saying reflects badly on the accusers.

[stonecutter357]

6. sorry your man lost AZ.

[Dragonfli]

12. Sorry no one will ever know who won just because Latino voters weren't counted you mean. /nt

[stonecutter357]

16. You mean Latino voters don't like Bernie and are not voting for him.

[Dragonfli]

20. We will never know in AZ is what I mean because they were denied their vote and their voice

Because of Republican voter fraud, but of course you knew that and like to think that her not defending Latino voters helped her so she doesn't have to champion all those cheated voters in her role as "champion of the people™".

She was a coward and still is for not speaking out about it, or perhaps simply too weak to take on AR Republicans, and thus to weak too champion anybody. The same tactics she ignore now, will sink her in the GE but she is too short sighted to fight it before it comes to that.

[stonecutter357]

25. .

[gollygee]

8. They will do it on election night in November. I suspect that's the end game.

Minority voters are being suppressed to aid the Republican Party. They know they can't win if everyone has an equal chance to vote. November (and every other November election) is the whole point of the SCOTUS gutting the Voting Rights Act.

[sufrommich]

9. Are you saying no one on DU is blaming

the Clinton campaign? Because I can point to a bunch of comments that are doing just that if you want me to.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. He's saying two things: Don't blame Hillary and don't minimize massive election problems designed

by Republicans simply because on a given day your candidate prevails among the problems.

I will add that I believe a basic problem with the US culture is that few will oppose corruption or injustice if the corruption and injustice is useful to them.

[Ken Burch]

14. Precisely. n/t.

[sufrommich]

15. It was Hillary supporters who pointed out that the

voting problems were caused by the republicans here on DU,remember? And that was after countless OPs blaming the Clinton camp. And let's not pretend some Sanders supporters aren't still blaming her,not only here but all over the internet with baseless conspiracy theories. I'll tell you as a Hillary supporter I'm sick of Sanders supporters constantly trying to minimize her wins,sometimes in incredibly nauseating ways.

[JoePhilly]

18. + 1

[blueintelligentsia]

24. That's hard to believe....have a link?

[Dragonfli]

17. Put away your 18 inch roller (broadest brush I can think of). I speak for myself, I say

Hillary is no champion of the people™ and is not fighting for us or other people of color as usual, said not even a word about long time Democratic voters having their party affiliations changed or deleted by those that cheated them, nor one single word about Republicans cheating in order to silence as many DEMOCRATIC Latino voters as possible by making it damn near impossible to vote with their usual tactics or reducing polling stations in minority areas until there were far too few for them to reasonably vote.

Hillary is only the champion of Hillary! Where was our champion if not fighting for us? thanking the Republicans via her silence regarding voter suppression and computer purges in a speech accepting victory with only 2% of the votes in while the people she said was the champion of, stood in 4 hour or more long lines only to find their primary information was purged because they lived in "brown" areas.

[center][/center]

Not to worry, "the champion of the people™" will swoop in and save the Day!

With an army of lawyers to make sure at the very least the broken laws (like properly registered Dems, unlawfully being told they could not vote, get to) and making the county allow the POC that were not allowed to vote to receive their right to do so!!

,,,soon..

.....

...Well it's a busy day for rich people shopping for giant pearls, and the line is long today......she'll be right along soon with her sidekick bullhorn Bill in tow to tell them what for .....


...Or maybe she forgot to wash her champion of the people™ superpower pantsuit, and without it lacks the courage and leadership strength required to battle the Republicans today is all...



Never mind, I just learned that the Republican voter fraud affected mostly only Latinos, you know, POC, "the help" to those as pearled up as her majesty, so help isn't coming, either that or she is too weak to fight for us as "our champion"™ against the much stronger Republicans in AZ. I sure do hope they treat her with kid gloves if she is elected, she's not strong enough to be our "champion" if it involves fighting for us against scary Republicans that are just too powerful for her weakness in chief

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. If he was saying that, he'd have, you know...SAID that.

Nothing whatsoever in the OP could lead any honest person to believe that it was saying any such thing.

[ibegurpard]

11. maybe they'll finally say something about it

Or maybe she will if (as appears likely) we are unlucky enough to be stuck with her as the nominee in November.

[CalvinballPro]

22. I'm not taking advice from BernieBros about what's offensive. Belittle black and older voters much?

[Ken Burch]

32. Never at all. n/t.

[frylock]

45. Amazing sense of self-awareness you have going there.

I'm not taking advice from BernieBros about what's offensive. Belittle black and older voters much?

[salinsky]

26. What's really offensive is ...

... Bernie Busters pledging to never, ever vote for Hillary, and then turning around and acting butthurt about the events in AZ, which are a direct result of Republican appointed rightwing justices to the SCOTUS gutting the VRA.

Cognitive dissonance much?

[frylock]

46. The cognitive dissonance will be in full effect when this happens again in November.

I'm sure you'll maintain the cavalier attitude then, amirite?

[auntpurl]

27. Ok, let's all take a deep breath.

Any sane person looking at DU will come to three inescapable conclusions, two of which are in your OP.

1. HRC isn't to blame for AZ voter suppression - that would be the Repubs who control that state's election process.

2. All Democrats should be, and ARE, concerned about vote suppression.

and finally:

3. Many, many Bernie supporters on DU HAVE accused Hillary of being responsible, and are still doing it. Hence, the nasty replies you are getting back on this thread. I don't like reading "sorry you lost" mean comments from Hillary supporters either when it comes to something as important as vote suppression, but I REALLY CAN'T BLAME THEM, because the amount of hateful vitriol about EVERYTHING Hillary-related on this website is toxic and horrible.

And with that, I think I need to take another break from GDP. Sigh.

[jeff47]

40. #2 is false.

All you have to do is look at this very thread for examples.

[auntpurl]

41. Oh, you think?

You genuinely, in your heart, think that Democratic voters on this website are in favour of vote suppression? You don't think that the snarky replies might have a lot to do with 48 hours of Bernie supporters on DU and across the internet accusing Hillary in the most vitriolic, hateful terms of being behind the whole AZ mess?

For heaven's sake, Hillary probably lost more votes than Bernie! It was a heavily Latino area! Do you honestly think Hillary supporters aren't concerned about this, and about vote suppression in general? This is how Bush stole the election in 2000! Do you think our memories are that short?

I honestly cannot believe the stuff that's posted on this website on a daily basis. Seriously, this place is horrible.

[jeff47]

42. I think that a vast number of posts calling the suppression "fake" reflects

the opinion of those posters.

You genuinely, in your heart, think someone is forcing them to call it a "fake scandal", or otherwise minimize the problem?

You don't think that the snarky replies might have a lot to do with 48 hours of Bernie supporters on DU and across the internet accusing Hillary in the most vitriolic, hateful terms of being behind the whole AZ mess?

If some posts they do not like about Clinton causes them to deem voter suppression "fake", then I do not believe they really care about voter suppression.

For heaven's sake, Hillary probably lost more votes than Bernie! It was a heavily Latino area!

Polling does not show Latinos overwhelmingly supporting Clinton.

Do you honestly think Hillary supporters aren't concerned about this, and about vote suppression in general?

If some "it's Clinton's fault!!!!" vitriol is enough for them to dismiss the entire episode, yes I don't think they are concerned about voter suppression.

Your claim is these posters are lying about their actual beliefs to "get back at" posts they disliked. That makes zero sense if these posters actually cared. More to the point, these posters have not now come out and said "yes, this really is a problem". Instead, they continue to make dismissive posts.

Why should I believe they are lying when they keep saying the same thing?

[Gothmog]

29. Hillary Clinton has some of the best policies for the protection of voting rights out there

Voting rights are one of my areas of interest and I have been working on voter protection issues for a very long time. In May of 2015, Hillary Clinton made a great speech on voting rights. The Clinton platform is one of the best set of proposals to protect the right to vote that I have seen and this is one of my passions. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/voting-rights/

Hillary has laid out her vision for how to expand access to the ballot box for all Americans and how to defend against the systematic, deliberate efforts to stop millions of citizens from participating in our democracy:

Repairing the Voting Rights Act. Congress should move quickly to pass legislation that would fix the damage done to the Voting Rights Act by the Supreme Court and restore the full protections American voters need and deserve. These protections are crucial for young and minority voters, seniors, and other underrepresented groups disproportionately affected by harmful Republican efforts to restrict voting.

Setting a new national standard for early voting. It’s time to set a standard across our country of at least 20 days of early in-person voting, including opportunities for evening and weekend voting. This will reduce long lines and give more people an opportunity to vote, especially those who have work or family obligations during the day. Early in-person voting isn’t just convenient—it’s also more secure, more reliable, and more affordable than absentee voting.

Implementing universal, automatic voter registration. Every citizen in every state should be automatically registered to vote when they turn 18, unless they choose to opt out. At the same time, we need to make sure that registration rolls are secure, up to date, and accurate. When you move, your registration should move with you. Modernizing registration will add tens of millions of voters to the rolls, cost less, and reduce the potential for errors or irregularities.

Restoration of the protections of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act would have prevented the long lines yesterday

[Ken Burch]

33. Agreed. But that was solely the doing of the GOP. n/t.

[yardwork]

38. I wish that you would make this an OP.

[brush]

35. In Arizona the repugs were practicing their vote suppression tactics for the general election in Nov

It didn't go well. They'll probably try to adjust them so they're not so obvious in November.

[LanternWaste]

37. No more offensive than many Sanders supporters stating the suppression was her plan.

No more offensive than many Sanders supporters stating the suppression was in fact, her plan. I see only outliers trivializing the suppression of votes, as I see only outliers blaming her for it.

However, as long as we pretend these sub-literate, half-witted outliers are the standard rather than the aberration, point fingers at each campaign, and pretend one side worships the 1% while the other side worships the momentarily trendy, the process simply will not change.

[NuclearDem]

43. Clinton called out voter suppression long ago.

Clinton's supporters have been roundly mocked for months for emphasizing the importance of the Supreme Court, the body which gutted the Voting Rights Act and allowed Arizona to go ahead with its shenanigans without preclearance from the DOJ.

Certain Sanders supporters, however, needed for the problem to directly affect them before they gave a shit about it.

[eridani]

48. It's pretty stupid to expect Clinton to be the nominee and not think that this crap--

--is really going to hurt in November.