A vote for Bernie is NOT anti-black or pro-racism (updated)

[Rebkeh]

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)

This subtle (not really) false narrative is ridiculous, absurd and straight up wrong.


Edited -- UPDATE -- (also a post downthread, #50)

I think there's more than one thing happening here.

There are paid operatives from various campaigns (republican and democrat), volunteer operatives, independently acting online operatives and straight up trolls. And this is not counting the majority - regular, every day supporters of a candidate, people like myself.

They all seem to be using race in one form or another to their benefit never stopping to consider how much damage they leave behind. (does not include the regular supporters)

The most destructive are the people that choose whoever has the momentum of the moment (in this case it's Bernie) and create as much conflict as possible by attacking them. If and when the pendulum swings the opposite direction, the trolls will switch sides and keep the conflict drama going .. not caring at all about any actual position. Or, for that matter, the people caught in the cross-fire - black and white both.

Too often the truth, along with facts, opinion, innuendo, legitimate data, illegitimate data, propaganda and distorted perception get into the mix and people argue the finer points of each... creating chaos.

Enough.

My OP is simply an effort to put it all in perspective with one simple truth - efforts to paint Bernie as the pro-racist is patently ridiculous. It is a false narrative I see being floated and sometimes actively pushed - that Bernie has a race problem. He does not.

I don't care who is doing it. It has to be stopped. So, let's stop giving it another minute of validation.

[MadBadger]

1. n/t.

[emulatorloo]

2. NOBODY EVER SAID IT WAS! (Until today)

What the fuck is it with these nonsense posts today.

Are we being besieged w GOP trolls or what?

[Trenzalore]

3. I don't think anyone is implying Bernie is a racist.

I think what has been said is Bernie has trouble resonating with some voters demographically.

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. I think it's a false narrative, and yes this is anecdotal.

I'm a 45-year-old widow, eking out a living. Hillary does not resonate with me; Bernie does. Because of this, I've been "led to believe" I've turned my back on my fellow females. I'm not as "woman" as they are for voting for Bernie in the primary.

Of my female friends (IRL), the ones who support Hillary are upper income women. Working class female friends tend to drift toward Bernie.

My father, 71-year-old retired automotive industry... voting for Bernie. His memory is long.


As for the "Bernie is racist," I think the entire thing should be dropped, by both sides. But it won't be. Because people have taken this primary and turned it into not about the issues. It's very sad. And I don't care who a person supports. We should, collectively, be better than that.

[Trenzalore]

11. I belong to Bernie's targeted Demographic

I vigorously supported Obama against Hillary in 2008. I like many of his ideas.

I don't think he has a realistic idea on how to implement his ideas past holding rallies and shouting based on his idea that somehow electing him would be a revolution. As an Obama supporter I find it offensive given what we did in 08 and the obstacles we faced that he thinks it is that easy.

[ScreamingMeemie]

20. My objective: To keep us from sliding to the right as the New Democratic Party

because the Republicans have gone batshit. Do I think Bernie will accomplish everything? No. But he will be a stop gap to extreme corporatism, in my opinion. I don't buy into the "shouting" narrative either... it is too much like what happened to Dean, and we should be better than that. I will vote for either on election day. I can't say I find Hillary "offensive," but she surely doesn't support the majority of my ideals. I like that the race is so tight. It is giving people a voice... for once.

Thanks for the level-headed discussion. That's hard to find these days.

[Aerows]

43. I, too, wish we could get back to the issues.

Of course, that would be detrimental to one candidate, thus cannot be tolerated. Shit-stirring is the last refuge.

[Dragonfli]

8. You must be quite blind not to see the many "Brave" implications from some with a "nak"

To post hundreds of times a meme that supports the OP's observations of Race baiting and has often implied that voting for Senator Sanders is a vote against the interests of Poc.

Not that it matters, but being a mixed race individual, I can hear the dog whistles put out by bigots of many stripes, they are called dog whistlers for a reason, the implied racism is only supposed to be heard by the target demographic, I hear them all.

[marions ghost]

19. +++++++

with ya

Dog whistles are being blown all over the place. Kinda Shrill and earsplitting to me.

VERY divisive, very destructive. Very Trump-esque.

[noretreatnosurrender]

53. Campaign Tactic

In my opinion when the campaign began Sanders was not well known in the South. The Clinton campaign and their surrogates saw this "problem" Sanders had with not being known so they exploited that problem to try to make it worse. We all know what happened. We've posted about it here. The whole thing has been a Clinton campaign tactic to define Sanders before he could define himself and sadly some here have adopted it and have talked of nothing else. It was a successful campaign tactic as dirty tactics often are. The sad thing about it is that these kind of tactics cover everyone in slime. The ones who are pushing the tactics and the ones on the receiving end. The people who choose to use these kind of tactics are not going to stop because they enjoy the response that they get. The only thing the people on the receiving end can do is to ignore them completely.

[emulatorloo]

5. Rebekah: I suspect this is an OUTSIDER meme, planted by

Outside Operatives. To stir up shit.

This is the calmer version of my post above

I just read a long thread and this is my conclusion.

Someone or some organization is attempting to divide DU

[Dragonfli]

13. Just more Brock super PAC spew, David Brock's Big Lie strategy is still in play

Neither proof nor truth matter, those posts have to do with the "BIG LIE" Strategy that Brock and the Clinton campaign are using as a large tool in their dirty tricks box.

His "internet specialists" (legal supposedly, but based on a very loose interpretation of a loop hole)
can be paid by a super-PAC to coordinate directly with her campaign if it is only involved via the internet,

Some of these employees are paid to post an all forms of social media, and often do, especially when it regards the Big Lie tactics when they are used, which rely on repetition of the lie in order to make people believe the lie even when faced with solid facts to the contrary.

Expect these lies to be continuously spread, along with other lies pushed as truth via the Big Lie tactic that they have been employing liberally. (perhaps the only true sentence involving the word liberally in connection with Clinton, a right wing candidate within the Democratic party.)

Joseph Goebbels: On the "Big Lie"

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Any candidate that would actively try to divide Americans across racial and cultural lines

Then attempt to foster hatred of each group against the other is harmful not just to the process but to the innocent people they are trying to divide into racial political wars, even if it is only an attempt to do so temporarily (as they likely tell themselves), just until an election is won, it is deplorable behavior and often seen used by hate groups across the globe.

This is becoming a pattern from the Clinton Campaign.

Incredibly well-respected surrogates sent out to attack Bernie or his supporters, get some pushback, accuse Sanders and his supporters of racism and/or sexism for pointing out the smear isn't true. It's sickening and cynical and divisive. I expect this stuff from Repugs- this divisiveness from the Clinton camp is heartbreaking.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511300567#post4.

Brock is a big part of this (pit one poor race against another) in order to win victories designed to profit the wealthy at the expense of all the people that will suffer under their trickle down neoliberal policies which will harm all of us struggling people no matter the race, but those that hire them also have a history of agitating people to hate by race and so are just as, if not more, accountable for such deplorable tactics.

It is a tactic often used by the wealthy in order to keep the power and money while continuing to steal even more in the face of glaring wide spread wealth disparity across all racial and social lines, In war the tactic is called divide and conquer, the wealthy have throughout history done this at the point where the difference between the rich and poor becomes widespread and apparent.

A true leader on the other hand, one that wants to help all the people historically tries to bring all the people together to fight the aristocracy.

It is clear which candidate is following which tactic, just as it is clear which candidate is little more than the puppet of the wealthy and attempting to win yet more of their favor. Such candidates often acquire excessive wealth during their lapdog tenures practically rubbing it in our faces (how much wealth have the "public servants" the Clintons acquired again, and from whom?)

The honest candidate, not swayed by or wiling to be used by by an uncontrolled group that worships at the altar of greed often lives a relatively normal lifestyle, not depending on acquiring wealth in order to achieve their version of a happy life, again which candidate more closely represents this lifestyle?

I have told you of tactics as old as the existence of extreme wealth at the expense of others. In your hearts the signs of their use are evident, some would say axiomatic.

I have also told you of some common traits of leaders on the side of the populace.

There is enough for you to decide for yourself which side you are on. And who is on your side as well.


choose well.

[emulatorloo]

14. More likely GOP operatives

[Dragonfli]

15. I disagree /nt

[Hydra]

29. So do I

This was pressed from very early in the primaries by Team Hill. It was a tactic, a strategy, used in cold blood to force an opening for their candidate that she did not earn.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. No this race baiting has been a HRC campaign tactic from the begining

And at this point I find it infuriating.

[Rebkeh]

51. Please see my post #50 nt

[Rebkeh]

50. I suspect that as well but...

I think there's more than one thing happening here.

There are paid operatives from various campaigns (republican and democrat), volunteer operatives, independently acting online operatives and straight up trolls. And this is not counting the majority - regular, every day supporters of a candidate.

They all seem to be using race in one form or another to their benefit never stopping to consider how much damage they leave behind. (does not include the regular supporters)

The most destructive are the people that choose whoever has the momentum of the moment (in this case it's Bernie) and create as much conflict as possible by attacking them. If and when the pendulum swings the opposite direction, the trolls will switch sides and keep the conflict drama going .. not caring at all about any actual position. Or, for that matter, the people caught in the cross-fire - black and white both.

Too often the truth, along with facts, opinion, innuendo, legitimate data, illegitimate data, propaganda and distorted perception get into the mix and people argue the finer points of each... creating chaos.

Enough.

My OP is simply an effort to put it all in perspective with one simple truth - efforts to paint Bernie as the pro-racist is patently ridiculous. It is a false narrative I see being floated and sometimes actively pushed - that Bernie has a race problem. He does not.

I don't care who is doing it. It has to be stopped. So, let's stop giving it another minute of validation.

[whatchamacallit]

6. I didn't see that. Do you have a link?

Though I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

[desmiller]

7. It's called being bitter.

[BernieforPres2016]

9. Are the Hillary supporters really trying to peddle that after she played the race card in 2008?

I have them all on Ignore, don't see what they're saying.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

10. Of course not. Anyone trying to convince you of that is a liar.

And liars are less than useless.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. That trope was hand crafted by a poster who later admitted to being antisemitic when found posting

extremely hateful anti Jewish materials on the internet. The trope and the source are only credible to those who are fine with a poster attacking a minority candidate for months who is then found to have great prejudice against that minority.

[riderinthestorm]

17. +10 million!!!! So obvious nt

[libtodeath]

42. Exactly.

It is sickening.

[Aerows]

44. It made me want to barf

to see that.

Then they drag their bullshit here to DU every chance they get.

[beam me up scottie]

49. ^^^THIS^^^

[CentralCoaster]

16. It's an extension of the "Bernie can't win black voters" meme, and desperate.

Clinton does so well with the AA community, the meme was created that it's because she's so liked by them and for all the good things she's done! (I know, she's done more harm than good)

Well, maybe she's liked in the South because she and Bill created and maintained long lived relationships there, they are not unknown, and they are, largely, liked. She's also built networks with power brokers in the south and in the AA community.

Bernie is from Vermont, he's mostly white and his state is not as diverse as many other state.

Therefore, to like him you must not like black people! At least that's how it's spun by two groups: Those who are willfully ignorant, and those who are desperate and will use division and distraction to win.

[JoePhilly]

18. Build a strawman, knock it over, declare victory.

No one says that about what a vote for Bernie means.

[KingFlorez]

22. Get this anti-choice, right-wing crap out of here

It's so sad that people have to stoop to right-wing memes to make a point.

[Lorien]

23. We can be pro-choice without supporting homicidal racist douchebags

all it takes is a little forethought and consideration!

[KingFlorez]

24. Yeah, sure

Again, the right-wing memes are not a good way of defending your candidate.

[libtodeath]

32. How often are rw talking points used to defend Hillary though?

[KingFlorez]

25. No one said it did, except for you right now

In fact, there was talk around here that suggested that black voters are anti-semitic and refused to vote for Sanders because he's Jewish.

[Fozzledick]

38. Not all of them, just one.

[jillan]

26. And just a reminder to people there are other cultures and ethnicities other

Than black and white. Their vote counts as well.

[me b zola]

35. I know, right?

My Mexican-American son and his Filipino wife are big Bernie supporters. There is so much more than black & white.

[HassleCat]

27. Maybe it's just here on DU

I don't know how common this theme is in the wider world, although I have seen some stuff in the popular press about how Sanders can't connect with black voters, only does well in white states, etc. It's really intense here because we have a couple, or maybe a small handful, of Clinton supporters who scour the world for articles and news items explaining why Hillary is right for black people and Bernie is wrong. My impression is very few people of any color think voting for Sanders is bigoted, racist, etc. They just think Clinton is a better choice for black civil rights. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion, and most people leave it at that.

[Hydra]

31. The problem is that Team Hill is getting these talking points directly from the campaign

You see them show up in the news and through surrogates a day or so later. Individual posters would be one thing, but for the official message of the campaign to be both racially and sexually divisive is extremely poor form.

[Lucinda]

36. Nonsense. The campaign does no such thing. n/t

[Rebkeh]

54. It is a reasonable position, even if I disagree with it

It's also true that some people leave it at that.

Sadly it gets entangled in the muck, and some don't leave it. I wish they would.

I'm just saying let's keep it all in perspective. To separate fact from fiction because too much is at stake when race is part of the agenda. Too much.

I updated the OP, or read post #50

[Vinca]

28. I'd like to know how "Bernie" and "racism" even end up in the same sentence.

Some people are either seeing what they wish to see or making a very nasty smear against a good man.

[me b zola]

33. It certainly is divisive in the nastiest way possible

Me being non AA left me feeling that it best for me just to walk away from such postings. I, like so many on DU, am a supporter of BLM and all forms of justice, of course including racial justice. This is one of the many reasons that I support Bernie. He has fought for justice, including racial justice, his entire life.

Thank you for this post. May the nastiness be replaced with understanding, peace, and justice.

[gollygee]

34. Nobody thinks that

I am a Bernie supporter. I voted for Bernie and I haven't been shy about saying so, including in the African American group. They made me a group host, knowing I was going to vote for Bernie Sanders. I don't think they'd make me a group host if they thought that my choice to vote for Bernie made me anti-black or pro-racism.

The false narrative that anyone at DU is claiming voting for Bernie is anti-black or pro-racism is absurd and straight-up wrong.

There have been black DUers who say that they are voting for Hillary because of her relationship to the African American community. There have also been black DUers who say they are not voting for Bernie because they aren't comfortable with how he discusses (or doesn't discuss) issues of importance to African Americans. Them voting the way they are because of racial issues does not mean they or anyone thinks that voting differently is a pro-racist choice. They can inform their decision of how to vote any way they want, and they can discuss it if they want. They also don't have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending anyone who might be bothered by their opinions or who might misinterpret them.

[bettyellen]

39. Thank you for saying this.

[Number23]

61. Your post will do nothing for the paranoid loons that have determined that everyone black here

hates Sanders and has called him a racist. And it's sad but not in any way surprising that they've got a couple of brown folks who spew every bit as much hate and insanity on this site as they do to go along with them. They can have each other.

And I'm not talking about the OP. Her post is head scratching and bewildering but she has never seemed even remotely strident or unhinged, unlike some others here racing around accusing the AA forum and black posters of every vile name that they can think of to fit in with their new friends. For their sakes, I sincerely hope that Sanders is worth the spectacular fools they've made out themselves over him.

[thebeautifulstruggle]

37. AA's are the least liberal of the Democratic voting block

in-fact, they are self-described as even more conservative than liberal, so it's no surprise that they would vote for the establishment candidate, outside of the first AA President in Obama (whom even they weren't favoring until he started winning)


Blacks: 42% Moderate, 29% Conservative, 27% Liberal

Whites: 50% Liberal, 36% Moderate, 12% Conservative

Hispanics: 39% Moderate, 35% Liberal, 24% Conservative


This isn't about what Sanders is doing wrong, it just is what it is

[link:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/02/09/democratic-voters-increasingly-embrace-liberal-label/|

[obamneycare]

46. According to data collected by the General Social Survey (GSS) and the American National Election...

... Survey (ANES), black Democrats remain significantly to the left of white Democrats on most economic questions.

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

Two conclusions seem inescapable. One, black Democrats remain “more liberal” than whites on economic issues. Two, the economic left wing of the black electorate remains larger and stronger than the economic left wing of the white electorate.

http://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/03/bernie-sanders-black-voters-firewall-primary/

[Rebkeh]

56. please see my update to the OP or post #50 nt

[liberal_at_heart]

40. I find it interesting that posters that say that minorities have Stockholm syndrome get

banned and yet posters that say that a vote for Bernie is a vote against minorities is allowed to stay. Oh well, I guess that is what the ignore feature is for.

[Aerows]

45. I can come up with

459,000 reasons for that.

[Fozzledick]

41. It seems like someone is deliberately posting racist memes just to make trouble for DU.

It's a shame there's no way to hold them accountable for their ratfucking divisiveness. Pure catch-22.

[beam me up scottie]

47. The latest despicable meme: Bernie's the candidate of straight white Christian males.

How low will they go?

[Rebkeh]

55. That's such a ridiculous meme... sigh

I am a walking, talking contradiction to these tropes floating around.

A middle aged (gen X) black woman feelin' the bern.

[beam me up scottie]

57. Have you seen what's trending on Twitter?

https://twitter.com/hashtag/BernieMadeMeWhite?src=tren

[Rebkeh]

58. lol... oh man. I loves the internets

I have a love/hate relationship with Twitter. I haven't been on in a while now, I can't always stomach it. Thanks for sharing this, made my day

WesleyZ3 - finally I have white privilege.

[aikoaiko]

48. HRC supporters have been playing this game ever since Bernie's announcement

For example, they said, I like Bernie, but look, there are few black faces standing with him. There must be some reason for this.


Not all are HRC supporters, some just don't really like Sanders.

[NorthCarolina]

52. If the Hillary camp is actually peddling this

she deserves to fail.

[d_legendary1]

59. Still grasping for straws I see

They do know we still drink starbucks and drive volvo's right?

[ZX86]

60. The "Bernie is struggling to connect with Blacks" meme is racial trolling.

And it was designed for that purpose. It's not very clever and like all schemes borne in deception it quickly fell apart and exposed the perpetrators for the partisans that they are. Willing to use past and present racial insensitivity to unfairly accuse Sanders and his supporters of blatant and shameless racism.

Under normal circumstances topics are debated on a level playing field. A discussion can be analyzed from multiple sides without one point of view expressly forbidden.

Candidate A does not resonate Group B. This can be due to three reasons.

1. Candidate A is not communicating message effectively with Group B.
2. Candidate A is communicating but Group B rejects Candidate A's message.
3. Group B is not receiving Candidate A's message effectively.

If the topic is fracking no one claims to be to be suffering another humiliation in a series of centuries long humiliations and discrimination because someone suggests you may not fully understand all the benefits or dangers involved in fracking.

But framing Candidate A inability to resonate with Racial Minority C partisans accuse Candidate A and his supporters of racism for suggesting that Racial Minority C may not fully understand all of Candidates A's positions or policies.

As a POC who have been around the block more than a couple of times I have found that people of any color (especially middle aged to older church ladies) are not always the most informed persons on topics of science and politics.

Recognizing this has much more to do with economic status, access to non-corporate media sources, education level, access to people from outside your culture and geographic area, etc. It is not a racist screed to suggest that persons you disagree with may not have access to all the information that you may have.

To suggest so is in itself racist. POC are not some exotic magic people who are incapable of making mistakes or miscalculations as individuals or as a group. While I happily concede and condemn the racially insensitive comments made about POC regarding political candidates the last thing I want to see happen is a shut down of all debate over fake and phony outrage that actually diminishes occurrences of real racism because somebody wants to score some cheap political points.