Clinton's campaign is alienating Bernie Sanders supporters — it could cost her the general election

[FreakinDJ]

With allegations of voter suppression in Arizona, as well as questions about the Clinton campaign’s tactics in Iowa, Nevada, and other states, some historical context is needed. In 2008, The Atlantic published an article explaining “dirty politics” and voting “irregularities” titled “Obama Manager Accuses Clintons of Widespread Dirty Politics”:

“David Plouffe, in a succinct statement appended to a released quotation from his boss, Barack Obama, said the Obama campaign was investigating more than 200 reporters of irregularities in Nevada.

‘We currently have reports of over 200 separate incidents of trouble at caucus sites, including doors being closed up to thirty minutes early, registration forms running out so people were turned away, and ID being requested and checked in a non-uniform fashion. This is in addition to the Clinton campaign’s efforts to confuse voters and call into question the at-large caucus sites which clearly had an affect on turnout at these locations. These kinds of Clinton campaign tactics were part of an entire week’s worth of false, divisive, attacks designed to mislead caucus-goers and discredit the caucus itself.’

But his campaign manger, David Plouffe, said the campaign has reports of more than 200 incidents of ‘trouble’ at caucus sites that may have kept Obama’s supporters from offering their support at the caucus. He blamed the incidents on premeditated ‘Clinton campaign tactics’ that he said ‘were part of an entire week’s worth of false, divisive, attacks designed to mislead caucus-goers and discredit the caucus itself.'”


http://www.salon.com/2016/03/25/hillary_clintons_dirty_politics_bernie_sanders_is_experiencing_the_same_nasty_tricks_that_clintons_campaign_dealt_obama_in_2008/

[Perogie]

1. She needs to change her TONE if she wants votes

I predict another bloodbath like 2014 if Hillary is the nomination. Republicans will come out of the woodwork to vote against her.
She won't draw enough Independents to the polls and she will lose.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Agreed!

[Jitter65]

33. All the stuff was about accusations in 2008. Just sad to make stuff up about 2016. nt

[IdaBriggs]

49. Do you not know how the internet works? There is a link to read more.

The poster has to limit to 4 paragraphs due to copyright.

Let me help you with 4 more paragraphs from the article (with some emphasis added by me with bold) -

http://www.salon.com/2016/03/25/hillary_clintons_dirty_politics_bernie_sanders_is_experiencing_the_same_nasty_tricks_that_clintons_campaign_dealt_obama_in_2008/

Sound familiar? Every single one of the voting irregularities Plouffe complained about in 2008 have been experienced by the Bernie Sanders campaign.

History is repeating itself in 2016.

While Plouffe complained of “200 separate incidents of trouble at caucus sites,” Bernie Sanders has also witnessed the same Clinton campaign strategy, without the support of anyone within the Democratic Part. At least Barack Obama had part of the Democratic establishment backing him, while Bernie Sanders is viewed as an outsider to many establishment Democrats.

(snip)

Furthermore, the same “dirty politics” exhibited eight years ago are evident in this year’s Democratic primary. The difference, however, is that many Democrats are just fine with voting irregularities and various forms of suppression, primarily because winning is all that matters to Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Even the FBI investigating Clinton and her associates (the FBI isn’t granting immunity to servers) isn’t enough to fill her supporters with the slightest concern.

There is more at the "magic link" represented on most devices as blue text with an underline.

Good luck!

[demwing]

39. She can change her tone, but she can't change her character

and how does a demonstrated liar convince voters that they are now honest?

[FreakinDJ]

46. Exactly - I find it difficult to vote for such a dishonest candidate

[Ino]

64. She is counting on bringing Sanders' supporters "to heel"...

"shaking some sense into them"...

scaring them with SCOTUS (even though Obama's less-than-liberal pick has effectively neutralized that argument)

Like you said, Republicans will vote en masse against her, she will lose Independents, young voters, and a significant number of other Democrats as well.

She will lose the GE.

[upaloopa]

2. The opposite is true. This OP is a good example.

Where are all those stories of Bernie super delegates being intimidated and where are all those stories of Bernie endorsers being attacked on face book?

The nerve of some people is just is way beyond words to describe.

[JoePhilly]

30. + 1

[Tanuki]

4. H A Goodman again. eom

[Nonhlanhla]

5. The Bernie campaign is smearing Hillary, and it could cost her the General Election

There, fixed the headline.

-----------------------------------------------

The accusation that Hillary had anything to do with the shenanigans in Arizona is so patently absurd that any rational person should be able to see it.

As to the rest, campaigns often accuse each other of being bullies: there are similar stories about the Bernie campaign's tactics in caucuses, for example.

THIS is one of my main concerns about Bernie still staying in the race, despite being significantly behind Hillary: his campaign and surrogates continue to smear Hillary and to sow distrust. If he wants to continue, he needs to stop the smearing and negative campaigning. She is almost certainly going to be the nominee, and surely Bernie knows it, even if his fans don't. So why smear her like this?

[My Good Babushka]

7. Why does Hillary and why do Hillary supporters mimimize crimes

when talking about their friends on Wall Street and on crooked election boards by calling them "shenanigans". Call them what they are- crimes, fraud, abuse.

[Nonhlanhla]

8. What crimes exactly did Hillary commit?

How the hell is she responsible for the election issues in Arizona? Many of the people who were disenfranchised by the GOP were in Hillary-leaning districts.

[My Good Babushka]

15. I didn't accuse her of commiting crmes

I am pointing out that she and her supporters minimize the crimes of others, when they are well-connected and well-placed and can help her career. In particular, the word "shenanigans" which is how she described the crimes and abuses of Wall Street that left millions out of work and homeless, and the same word "shenanigans" which you parroted in your post, which left many people without a vote.

[Nonhlanhla]

19. Since the topic here was smears against Hillary

your language did sound as if you're accusing Hillary of being complicit in crimes.

And I used the word "shenanigans" because I like the word and because it neatly encompasses a whole grab bag of stuff that went down in Arizona: there was deliberate voter disenfranchisement there by the GOP (and that is a crime, yes), but there were also ignorant independent voters who tried to vote in the Democratic primary (and that is not a crime, just ignorance): together, the word "shenanigans" functions as an easy grab bag term to describe the whole mess.

[My Good Babushka]

20. Disenfranchising voters is not "shenanigans"

and it is going to remind people of Hillary's language about Wall Street, and how little we can expect in the way of change with your candidate. But hey, it's your choice to use that word. Keep on keepin' on.

[Nonhlanhla]

21. OK, whatever

If the word bothers you so much, don't use it. I like the word. I explained why it fits the mix of GOP crimes and Independents' ignorance that caused the problems in Arizona. You insist on the word "crimes" and somehow linking it to Hillary. Your agenda is clear.
Bye.

[Melissa G]

68. That is not the topic of this thread.

That would be your thread hijack.

[Nonhlanhla]

69. It was the topic of my post

and my post was a response to the thread. Not simply echoing the content of an OP, but in fact responding to it, is not a thread hijack. It's called having a conversation.

[Chan790]

22. In that case, we've already lost the GE.

Perhaps he's staying in because he knows he is our only chance of keeping the White House and he's not willing to surrender it yet, even if she is the likely nominee. I mean...we can still hope she gets indicted and we don't lose the White House...but if she's the Democratic nominee we're getting President Trump.

The better question is "If Hillary is a born loser with no chance at keeping the White House, why is she still in this race?"

[mythology]

24. If she's a born loser

what does that say about the guy losing the race by a substantial margin? It seems a little silly to say that the clear leader is a loser in an effort to boost the guy behind her.

[Nonhlanhla]

37. A "born loser"?

That's the kind of language that Trump uses. You may want to rethink that.

Also she is beating Bernie. I.e., she is winning the primaries.

The issue is whether Bernie is going to continue damaging her by smearing her, which could lessen her chances in the GE.

[JoePhilly]

31. + 1

[marions ghost]

38. "almost certainly going to be the nominee"

That's the part you're missing.

Bernie supporters are not buying.

[EdwardBernays]

6. Name

Another leading Dem candidate that's had 10s of thousands of people sign pledges and petitions saying that they won't support them. Or one that is distrusted so thoroughly by their own base, as evidenced by multiple polls. Or one that people in their own party think - and publicly state - is corrupt.

Hillary is about as damaged as a frontrunner could ever be really. Many thousands of progressives won't support her. Many many more independents won't as well.

And she and her supporters only make it worse with their awful behavior.

[Cobalt Violet]

12. they just don't get it.

They will in November. They'll blame Bernie but it is their own very flawed candidate and the DNC that is to blame.

[JackInGreen]

28. +1

more's the pity.

[EdwardBernays]

55. It's practiced

it's the same blinders that lets them dismiss all criticism from the LEFT as right-wing smears... sure I saw post earlier today from a Clintonite claiming that the democratic party had never been stronger... it's crazy-talk, but hey... what can we do really...?

[mythology]

25. Are you really going to claim that there has been no awful behavior from Sanders supporters?

Attacking Elizabeth Warren for not endorsing, attacking Trayvon Martin's mother for endorsing. Saying black voters have Stockholm Syndrome or are like a battered wife to the Clintons.

Those things apparently don't qualify as awful behavior.

[EdwardBernays]

36. Cmon

They're not even vaguely close. Neither are all the dirty tricks played by the Hillary campaign. Or attacks on Sanders by the DNC. Or thr attacks on Sanders by the pro-Hillary media. Or the dishonest attempts to coop Sanders plans. Etc etc etc. A few random Sanders supporters have said a few awful thing, but compare that to the daily onslaught against Sanders supporters by the monolithic Clinton campaign they're nothing.

And...

Unlike the Clintonites, Sanders supporters are quick to denounce the nastiest things from their side... Look at the crap like the things Cali posts which are endlessly praised by Clinton supporters. Again, there's no contest.

[SwampG8r]

42. You mean cali democrat

Cali is a different poster who doesnt bring lies here and let them fester.

[EdwardBernays]

53. I do

thanks for clarifying

[Bluenorthwest]

43. That Stockholm Syndrome post was aimed at LGBT and African Americans, you leave the LGBT out. Why?

Probably because many LGBT Sanders supporters objected so strongly and so well to that bullshit. I put myself on the line in that thread and spoke the exacting truth but Hillary supporters always do what you do, first claim LGBT are not a part of it, then erase our voices when revising the history.
Your candidate tried to erase LGBT history with her lavish praise of Ron and Nancy Reagan as pioneering AIDS activists, a huge lie that is very much of a piece with what her supporters do here constantly, with what you are doing with your tale half told, told with the truth removed. You use that shitty OP, yet again, to erase and berate LGBT. You and Stockholm Man use the same exact tactics.

[randome]

10. Hilarious once more. Republican cheats in Arizona and 'questions' about Clinton.

It's elementary to draw the conclusion that it's all Clinton's fault! Extra points for yet another HA Goodman post. This is sad to see.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[timlot]

11. Cost her? More like cost us...

These threats of not supporting Hillary in November are so misguided. If she loses Hillary will still be a rich lady walking around with secret service protection for the rest of her life. While we will be stuck with Pres. Trump/Cruz.

[rjsquirrel]

18. Shows you exactly

how sincere their politics really are.

[JoePhilly]

32. + 1

[FreakinDJ]

47. you have to admit Hillary earned this

[Trenzalore]

13. You were already alienated

Clinton has been treating Bernie with kid gloves compared to 2008 and you are all a bunch of whiners.

[Android3.14]

14. Her pursuit of a win will make us all lose

I have never been so disgusted with a Democratic campaign.

[rjsquirrel]

17. Never I tells you!

Well then, I do believe its time for your constitutional.

[DanTex]

16. HA Goodman predicted that Hillary would come in 3rd in Iowa and lose big on Super Tuesday.

Why are people still posting his articles?

[mythology]

26. Because he supports their viewpoint

It doesn't matter if he has a long history of being wrong. Likewise it doesn't matter that Nate Silver has a long history of getting it right. He was wrong about Michigan and ergo he knows nothing because it benefits their viewpoint.

[JoePhilly]

34. He's like the Penthouse forum ...

... for Bernie supporters.

Although those stories are probably closer to reality.

[CalvinballPro]

41. +1

[gollygee]

23. Hillary Clinton doesn't run Arizona state elections.

There was voter suppression, because the VRA was gutted by the SCOTUS. And if that keeps Bernie supporters home and enables more Republicans getting on the SCOTUS to do even more damage to voting rights, that would be both ironic and stupid.

[GreatGazoo]

27. Also alienating her own supporters and that could cost her the Nomination.

Apparently joining in the desperate smear campaign against Sanders and his wife isn't for everyone. Clinton was tied in Iowa, now losing by 40%+ in recent states.

[Darb]

29. Yeah, the bernies are such sweethearts.

I run into them every day here at the SttopHillary Underground and I can tell you, they are swell. I hope they demand a bunch of shit to vote in the general instead of staying home like they did in 2010 and 2014. You gotta love em......or they'll cut off their noses.

[Matt_in_STL]

35. It is the outright anti-Semitic remarks from some of her supporters that have made this difficult

Between the lies, smears, and outright anti-Semitism, the Hillary campaign is something I can't bring myself to associate with.

[FreakinDJ]

50. +1000

[LexVegas]

40. No..it won't. nt

[polichick]

44. Sure is alienating me - the Clinton/DNC Dirty Tricks Machine is as creepy...

as Trump.

[FreakinDJ]

51. Worse then Trump

They infect and denigrate the Democratic Party

[Bluenorthwest]

45. The 'Reagan was great on AIDS' bullshit and the raging antisemitism that has been seen on DU

make me feel sick. The fact that her supporters including the admins seem comfortable with all of that also makes me queasy.

[Demsrule86]

48. That would be awful

Such a thing would doom this country...if we don't get a Dem in office ...kiss the courts goodbye...as we have really old justices.

[enid602]

52. gotta love em

Bernistas: you can't live with em, and you can't live without em. So they say. . .

[restorefreedom]

54. i think the people have left "could" in the dust

this, as well as many other things, WILL cost her the ge if she even makes it that far.

[merrily]

56. I read that one third of Bernie's supporters will not vote for Hillary. I don't know if that is

reliable.

On the one hand, when actually faced with Trump or Cruz v. Hillary, people may show less bravado.

On the other hand, people have been known to lie to pollsters, rather than admit they will likely stay home or vote for a chump like Trump.

One group I do not believe with vote for Hillary are the leftist supporters of Bernie who had stopped being Democrats (whether officially or in practice) until Bernie declared. They are already past whatever hurdles LOTE voters must pass when they decide to stop voting for (Third Way) Democrats.

[VulgarPoet]

59. This cycle confirmed that for me.

After Obama basically dismantled his grassroots, I wound up hella disillusioned, and walked away from the party then. Was an Independent alongside my father by the time Obama ran for re-election-- my father voted Romney, I voted Obama out of, well, no one else was primarying him so who the hell else could I have voted for in 2012?

But this cycle? This cycle confirmed that I will never be a Democrat again. The fact that such egregious, filthy, Rove class lies could be posited by a Democrat, and people ate it up and jumped all over it like rotted meat to a starving mutt-- that tells me everything I need to know. I'm done.

[FreakinDJ]

60. 2010 & 2012 Tea Party wins show rejection of 3rd Way Dems

The New Democratic Coalition which is the Third Way caucus Democrats suffered the heaviest losses

Democrats just can't seem to vote for their corporatist Wall Street policies and serves as proof the article is correct

This will cost the Dems the GE

[BernieforPres2016]

63. I think the Clintons are the most corrupt politicians on the national stage in my lifetime

Even more so that Nixon. I am not scared enough of Trump or Cruz or anybody else to cast a vote for Hillary in the general election. I don't care if her supporters become nice. I don't care if Bernie endorses her. I am not going to cast a vote for that war mongering crook.

I was just watching an old interview with the late Christopher Hitchens on his book about Bill Clinton, "No One Left to Lie To". I think people have tried to erase the scandals of the Clinton administration from their heads. Hitchens said Bill Clinton had 2 Cabinet meetings in 1999. One was in January, to lie to them about the Monica Lewinsky episode and to send them out to repeat his lies to the press. The second Cabinet meeting that year was in August, to admit that he had lied to them, but not to apologize. Not one Cabinet member resigned. Not one Democrat voted to impeach Bill Clinton, even though he later had to surrender his license to practice law before the Supreme Court, and in the states of Arkansas and New York. The Clintons corrupted the Democratic Party.

Then there are the post Presidency shenanigans with grifters like Ron Burkle and Frank Giustra, that even Bill Clinton's defenders were horrified and embarrassed to see him flying around the world with.

There seems to be no corrupt and oppressive foreign leader that Bill and Hillary Clinton won't cozy up to for money, or any corporate interest they won't defend in exchange for personal and campaign funds.

[RandySF]

57. I'm skeptical

[Betty Karlson]

58. K&R for exposure. And for truth. eom

[dr60omg]

61. I know what Clinton fun and games look like

Everything from triangulation, to smears, to pot calling kettle ...
Then there are the coded language, the games with media (put that into a 2016 context where people cannot tell what is real from what is nonsense), and the outright deceptions
You have got the Clinton machine doing what it does best and this time on steroids (including the same errors)

[kstewart33]

62. If you don't want to vote for Clinton, don't.

Just don't be so self righteous about it.

[amborin]

65. IF she gets nominated, she will not win the GE

[rock]

66. So you think

She's going to win the primary?

[GardeningGal]

67. She's lost me.

And I'm an unaffiliated voter in a swing state.

[Vinca]

70. I'm starting to think she isn't going to need us.

If Trump is the nominee it appears she'll have Republicans campaigning for her. They've really turned on him and some have already said they would support Hillary. Let's face it, it's not unlike voting for a moderate Republican.

[PonyUp]

72. Her husband said we are the lefty tea party, too small to matter. n/t

[Cobalt Violet]

71. K & R!

[XemaSab]

73. If she's this chaotic as a candidate

I shudder to think what she'd be like as a president.

[Tarc]

74. There were many of these same panicky discussions in 2008 regarding Hillary's followers

At the end, all but a few hardcore holdouts are able to see the big picture. It's more than enough to win in the fall, esp given how polarizing Trump is.