At rallies, Hillary Clinton’s supporters are looking for logic, not passion

[ucrdem]

April 2 at 9:07 PM:

“She’s a serious candidate, and she doesn’t have to entertain me,” said Chris Haggerty, 58, a pastor in her third hour of waiting, of moving in small increments toward the high school doors.

Elsewhere in America, Sanders was thundering about a “political revolution.” The Republican front-runner Trump was promising to “bomb the sh--” out of the Islamic State. These were the emotionally cathartic rallies that had come to define this unorthodox political season so far — angry, raucous, anti-establishment and, in Trump’s case, ­occasionally violent.

A Clinton rally was decidedly none of these things.

What was it, then? What happens at a rally for the presidential candidate who has gotten more votes than anyone else so far — nearly 9 million, which is roughly 2.5 million more than Sanders and 1 million more than Trump?

(snip)

“Trump’s angry; Bernie’s angry all the time,” said Smith, a retired elementary schoolteacher who said she was not angry other than whatever frustration she felt toward the other candidates and their followers, which she sublimated. “Just realistically, I think it’s not a matter of pumping the team up, it’s a matter of playing the game. You can’t have that kind of demeanor. I can’t imagine these men being in the room when some crisis really happens. Is emotion going to rule them, or are they going to have a level head and make calm decisions?”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/at-rallies-hillary-clintons-supporters-are-looking-for-logic/2016/04/02/4098c502-f73f-11e5-a3ce-f06b5ba21f33_story.html

[noretreatnosurrender]

1. Pity

I don't think they will find either one at her rallies.

[Politicalboi]

2. I second that

All they get are lies.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

4. Man that was a third degree bern! K&R

[votesparks]

3. Feelings > Policy

Figures.

[roguevalley]

12. I love that we get both from bernie

[mythology]

21. Except not everybody agrees that Sanders has good economically sound policies

Krugman for example finds them to be less than solid.

[votesparks]

31. Except that not everybody agrees that Sanders has economically unsound policies

Such as these folks:

1. Robert Reich, University of California Berkeley
2. Robert Hockett, Cornell University
3. James K. Galbraith, University of Texas
4. Dean Baker, Center for Economic and Policy Research
5. Christine Desan, Harvard Law School
6. Jeff Connaughton, Former Chief of Staff, Senator Ted Kaufman
7. William Darity Jr., Duke University
8. Eileen Appelbaum, Center for Economic and Policy Research
9. Brad Miller, Former U.S. Congressman and Senior Fellow, Roosevelt
Institute
10. William K. Black, University of Missouri-Kansas City
11. Lawrence Rufrano, Research, Federal Reserve Board, 2005-2015
12. Darrick Hamilton, New School for Social Research
13. Peter Eaton, University of Missouri-Kansas City
14. Eric Hake, Catawba College
15. Geoff Schneider, Bucknell University
16. Dell Champlin, Oregon State University
17. Antoine Godin, Kingston University, London, UK
18. John P. Watkins, Westminster College
19. Mayo C. Toruño, California State University, San Bernardino
20. Charles K. Wilber, Fellow, Joan B. Kroc Institute for International Peace
Studies, University of Notre Dame
21. Fadhel Kaboub, Denison University
22. Flavia Dantas, Cortland State University
23. Mitchell Green, Binzgar Institute
24. Bruce Collier, Education Management Information Systems
25. Winston H. Griffith, Bucknell University
26. Zdravka Todorova, Wright State University
27. David Barkin, Universidad Autonoma Metropolitana-Xochimilco
28. Rick Wicks, Göteborg, Sverige (Sweden) & Anchorage, Alaska
29. Philip Arestis, University of Cambridge
30. Amitava Krishna Dutt, University of Notre Dame
31. John F. Henry, Levy Economics Institute
32. James G. Devine, Loyola Marymount University
33. John Davis, Marquette University
34. Gary Mongiovi, St. John’s University
35. Eric Tymoigne, Lewis & Clark College
36. Trevor Roycroft, Ohio University
37. James Sturgeon, University of Missouri-Kansas City
38. Spencer J. Pack, Connecticut College
39. Thomas Kemp, University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire
40. Ronnie Phillips, Colorado State University
41. John Dennis Chasse, SUNY at Brockport
42. Pavlina R. Tcherneva, Bard College
43. Silvio Guaita, Institution, Federal University of Rio de Janeiro (UFRJ)
44. Glen Atkinson, University of Nevada, Reno
45. William Van Lear, Belmont Abbey College
46. James M. Cypher, Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas
47. Philip Pilkington, Political Economy Research Group, Kingston University
48. Eric Hoyt, PhD candidate, UMass-Amherst
49. Jon D. Wisman, American University
50. James K. Boyce, University of Massachusetts Amherst
51. Hendrik Van den Berg, Professor Emeritus, Universities of Nebraska
52. Thomas E. Lambert, Northern Kentucky University
53. Michael Nuwer, SUNY Potsdam
54. Nikka Lemons, The University of Texas-Arlington
55. Scott T. Fullwiler, Wartburg College
56. Charles M A. Clark, St. John's University
57. John T. Harvey, Texas Christian University
58. Daphne Greenwood, University of Colorado-Colorado Springs
59. Gerald Epstein, University of Massachusetts Amherst
60. Mohammad Moeini-Feizabadi, PhD candidate, University of Massachusetts
61. Rebecca Todd Peters, Elon University
62. Andres F. Cantillo, University of Missouri-Kansas City
63. Michael Meeropol, Professor Emeritus of Economics, Western New England
University
64. Robert H. Scott III, Monmouth University
65. Timothy A Wunder, Department of Economics University of TexasArlington
66. Mariano Torras, Adelphi University
67. Gennaro Zezza, Levy Economics Institute
68. Wolfram Elsner, University of Bremen
69. Larry Allen, Lamar University
70. John Miller, Wheaton College
71. Chris Tilly, UCLA
72. Sean Flaherty, Franklin and Marshall College
73. Clifford Poirot, Shawnee State University
74. Anita Dancs, Western New England University
75. Calvin Mudzingiri, University of the Free State
76. Roger Even Bove, West Chester University
77. Andrea Armeni, Transform Finance
78. Anwar Shaikh, New School for Social Research
79. Steven Pressman, Colorado State University
80. Frank Pasquale, University of Maryland, Carey School of Law
81. John Weeks, SOAS, University of London
82. Matías Vernengo, Bucknell University
83. Thomas Masterson, Levy Economics Institute
84. Antonio Callari, Franklin and Marshall College
85. Avraham Baranes, Rollins College
86. Janet Spitz, the College of Saint Rose
87. Nancy Folbre, University of Massachusetts Amherst
88. Jennifer Taub, Vermont Law School
89. Irene van Staveren, Erasmus University
90. Yavuz Yaşar, University of Denver
91. Scott McConnell, Eastern Oregon University
92. Don Goldstein, Allegheny College
93. J. Pérez Oya, Retired UN secretariat (Spain)
94. Elaine McCrate, University of Vermont
95. Thomas E. Weisskopf, University of Michigan
96. Jeffrey Zink, Morningside College
97. Scott Jeffrey, Monmouth University
98. Lourdes Benería, Cornell University
99. Frank Thompson, University of Michigan
100. Baban Hasnat, The College at Brockport, State University of New York
101. Ilene Grabel, University of Denver
102. Tara Natarajan, Saint Michael's College
103. Leanne Ussher, Queens College, City University of New York
104. Kathleen McAfee, San Francisco State University
105. Victoria Chick, University College London
106. Steve Keen, Kingston University
107. Heidi Mandanis Schooner, The Catholic University of America
108. Louis-Philippe Rochon, Laurentian University
109. Jamee K. Moudud, Professor of Economics, Sarah Lawrence College
110. Timothy A. Canova, Shepard Broad College of Law, Nova Southeastern
University
111. Karol Gil Vasquez, Nichols College
112. Mark Haggerty, University of Maine
113. Luis Brunstein University of California, Riverside
114. Cathleen Whiting, Willamette University
115. William Waller, Hobart and William Smith Colleges
116. Kade Finnoff, University of Massachuettes-Boston
117. Maarten de Kadt, Independent Economist
118. Timothy Koechlin, Vassar College
119. Ceren Soylu, University of Massachusetts-Amherst
120. Dorene Isenberg, University of Redlands
121. Barbara Hopkins, Wright State University
122. Matthew Rice, University of Missouri-Kansas City
123. David Gold, The New School for Social Research
124. Cyrus Bina, University of Minnesota
125. Mark Paul, University of Massachusetts-Amherst
126. Xuan Pham, Rockhurst University
127. Erik Dean, Portland Community College
128. Arthur E. Wilmarth, Jr., George Washington University Law School
129. Rohan Grey, President, Modern Money Network
130. Tamar Diana Wilson, University of Missouri—St. Louis
131. Radhika Balakrishanan, Rutgers University
132. Alla Semenova, SUNY Potsdam
133. Yeva Nersisyan, Franklin and Marshall College
134. Linwood Tauheed, University of Missouri-Kansas City
135. Michael Perelman, California State University, Chico
136. Janet T. Knoedler, Bucknell University
137. David Laibman, Brooklyn College and Graduate School, City University of
New York
138. Ann Pettifor, Director, Policy Research in Macroeconomics, London
139. Steve Schifferes, City University London
140. Al Campbell, University of Utah
141. Faith Stevelman, New York Law School
142. Kathleen C. Engel, Suffolk University Law School
143. Jack Wendland, University of Missouri-Kansas City
144. Ruxandra Pavelchievici, University of Nice Sophia Antipolis
145. Zoe Sherman, Merrimack College
146. Donald St. Clair, CFP, Financial Planning Assoc. of Northern California
147. Carolyn McClanahan, CFP, Life Planning Partners, Inc.
148. Thomas Ferguson, Senior Fellow, Roosevelt Institute
149. Saule T. Omarova, Cornell University
150. Josh Ryan-Collins, City University, London
151. June Zaccone, Hofstra University
152. Alex Binder, Franklin & Marshall College
153. Albena Azmanova, University of Kent, Brussels School of International
Studies
154. Hans G. Ehrbar, University of Utah
155. Devin T. Rafferty, St. Peter’s University
156. Reynold F. Nesiba, Augustana University
157. David Zalewski, Providence College
158. Claudia Chaufan, University of California-San Francisco
159. L. Randall Wray, Levy Economics Institute and Bard College
160. Richard B. Wagner, JD, CFP, WorthLiving LLC
161. Joseph Persky, University of Illinois-Chicago
162. Julie Matthaei, Wellesley College
163. Peter Spiegler, University of Massachuetts-Amherst
164. James Ronald Stanfield, Colorado State University
165. William D. Pitney, CFP, Director of Advocacy, FPA of Silicon Valley
166. Ora R. Citron, CFP, Oak Tree Wealth Management
167. Susan Webber, Former Associate at Goldman, Sachs & Co.
168. Richard D. Wolff, Democracy at Work and New School for Social Research
169. Mu-JeongKho, University College London
170. Kevin Furey, Chemeketa Community College

[fun n serious]

36. At this point.. we need to check every individual on that list..

And double check. Everything is in question now.

[Lizzie Poppet]

5. They'd first have to be able to identify logic.

From what one sees here, that's a damn big ask.

[jfern]

6. What's the logic of supporting regime change against Assad

while he's fighting Al Qaeda and ISIS?

[delrem]

25. Now two branches of the US military have goons shooting at each other in Syria.

Yay!

What the fuck if a few hundred thousand more innocent Arab civilians get killed.
It's all about fat profits, it's about grabbing that plum.

[Armstead]

7. And she's serving up empty word salad

Aside from some innocuous truisms which no one can disagree with, her statements tend to be long on words, but short on actual substance. She uses 20 words where 5 would do -- and trying to find logic or conclusions is an exercise in frustration.

[Jackilope]

8. Wouldn't good logic make for good judgement?

Historically HRC has had terrible judgement.

[ucrdem]

10. She's paid the principal and interest many times over for each one.

How many Benghazi hearings has she sat in front of? How much ink has been spilled about her damn emails? And speaking of Bernie he wants us to lead the world in a campaign to destroy ISIS. That's a recipe for quagmire if there ever was one. But he's repackaged a few RW talking points we *love* to hear so he's the designated anti-Hillary du jour.

[roguevalley]

13. she helped put us there don't blame him and try to hang her stupidity on him

[ucrdem]

18. Bernie also gets credit:

In 2001, Sanders did not support the vote in Congress to oppose the war in Afghanistan. Congresswoman Barbara Lee stood alone! This vote was followed by his support for appropriations to support both the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. In 2003 he supported the resolution that gave support to George W. Bush in both Iraq and in the larger war against terrorism, although Sanders has been a critic of the Iraq War.

Then Sanders supported only a gradual withdrawal from Iraq. When impeachment was on the so-called table against George W. Bush in 2006, he said that impeachment was “impractical.”

Sanders, like his Democratic allies, has supported Israel’s aggressive Middle East policies against Palestinian statehood. He supported HR 282, the Iran Freedom Support Act, which was similar to the resolutions leading to the Iraq War. Indeed, it appears that Sanders is even to the political Right of many liberal Democrats!

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/27/bernie-sanders-savior-or-seducer-of-the-anti-war-left/

And so on.

[delrem]

29. Here you conflate Afghanistan/Iraq.

These are very different things.

At the time the intent of the Afghanistan adventure was to take out bin Laden.
It was not intended to annex Afghanistan, or enter a 15+year "long war" to ensure virtual annexation.

The build up to the war of choice against Iraq didn't have any of that innocence.
At that point the population of the entire planet knew where George W. Bush was at and there were demonstrations world wide on an unprecedented scale. Don't you tell me this didn't happen.

[ucrdem]

30. He voted to fund the Iraq war on the same day he cast that lucky vote against the AUMF:

On October 10, 2002, Sanders voted against the Iraq AUMF, but on the same day, he voted to fund the Defense Department in fiscal year 2003:

https://votesmart.org/bill/3083/12790/27110/use-of-military-force-against-iraq#.VYZ9uba1qSo

https://votesmart.org/bill/3122/8511/27110/department-of-defense-appropriations-fiscal-year-2003#.VYZ8NLa1qSo

[delrem]

33. You figure that voting to fund the US dep't of defense is the same as to vote for the Iraq war?

That's crazy.

[Fumesucker]

34. That's "logic" in camp Weathervane

[highprincipleswork]

9. It's not logic. It's that comfort of status quo. Unfortunately, the status quo is selling us out.

Or perhaps it's the thrill of being on the winning or inevitable team. Wonderful feeling, while it lasts.

Perhaps it's the fun of being smug and telling the rest of us how "unrealistic" we are.

Perhaps they have given up to the status quo and the sellout as being the best we can have.

Perhaps they don't read the polls that submit over and over again that Bernie is the most electable candidate, or they simply refuse to believe them. Well, we can suppose or assume anything.

By the way, how many of the best and most important decisions in your life did you make by logic alone anyway? I doubt very many, and if you made them that way, I doubt they were very good. When you gut tells you something is not on the level, it's usual right. That's part of why I trust Bernie, with his longtime track record, versus Hillary, who seems to change her politics with the wind, with whatever is expedient, and then make some disastrous choices.

By the way, "rationalization" is not logic either.

[ucrdem]

11. The status quo is looking pretty good.

Which is bad news for Bernie and Trump who like to pretend it's 2008. NYT, yesterday:

Jobs and Wages Notch Gains

The 215,000 jump in payrolls in March reported by the Labor Department on Friday capped the best two-year period for hiring since the late 1990s, while the proportion of Americans in the labor force — which had been on a downward trajectory since 2001 and an even steeper slide since 2008 — hit a two-year high.

“It’s really a best-case scenario,” said Michelle Meyer, deputy head of United States economics at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. “I was particularly encouraged by the pickup in labor force participation.”

The underlying strength apparent in the report for March reinforces growing evidence that the economy, despite a host of remaining ills, is now consistently moving in the right direction.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/02/business/economy/jobs-report-unemployment-wages.html

[Ken Burch]

14. You can't be committed to change without displaying passion.

And you can't win by running bland.

[riderinthestorm]

15. This is a good article. I don't agree with Hillary’s supporters

but they're fairly represented here.

Their pragmatism and incrementalism are exactly wrong for the planet's impending climate catastrophe but I think the group represented in the article don't give a shit about the looming disaster.

Very insightful.

[ucrdem]

19. Thanks! I think the sum of the article is that Hillary's audiences see them as problems to be solved

and ultimately that's what they are: either they'll get solved or they won't. Hillary's approach is, "let's get to work" which seems the best approach to me.

[Skwmom]

16. Logic would dictate you don't vote for someone with her track record.

She is a monumental screw up on both foreign and domestic fronts. In addition, she is bought and paid for.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. Of late. Their logic resembles:

https://m.

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. They're looking for help ameliorating their cognitive dissonance.

In other words, they're desperate for a plausible-sounding rationale to support a warmongering elitist in thrall to the banksters.

[ucrdem]

23. Eventually this interminable campaign will conclude and someone will have to take over from Barack.

Is Hillary perfect? No. But she's the only one remotely capable of taking over.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. I've been waiting for someone to take over from FDR... or even Eisenhower.

That person isn't Hillary.

[ucrdem]

28. Times have changed and the country has changed. The world has changed.

Bernie might be a whiz at Twitter but he hasn't kept up.

[delrem]

22. I think that after Iraq, Libya and Syria, they're on the edge of their seats anticipating.

That's just my opinion about how avidly they're anticipating, those snugglebunnies.

[Kalidurga]

24. #Whatlogic

College can't afford it? Health care can't afford it FOAD if you are poor? Wars for Corporate interests? Abortion is a right unless you are 8 months pregnant and there are serious health issues for your fetus and your life? We must have social justice, but economic justice for all forgetaboutit? Building more private prisons? Not taking marijuana off the dangerous drugs registry, just cuz? We must bring super predators to heel, but not the conditions that breed the despair that causes people to turn to violent solutions? Saying we must get money out of politics by taking in more money from corporations than any other candidate every has?

[dchill]

27. "...logic, not passion..."

That will be even harder to find.

[snowy owl]

32. Sorry, they are not mutually exclusive . . . Best to be both like Sanders Supporters

[GreatGazoo]

35. Friday they tried to say she had the enthusiasm and now they just spin obvious lack of enthusiasm as

a good thing.